I like the idea of the zero fret (regardless of it's image as lowere quality) but I also think that a decent nut should be fine (especially if it fits the size fret wire used).

But what constitutes a good nut?

Phenolic? Graphite? Bone? Plastic?

I don't even know what difference these make.

Please enlighten me.

- bsb

I don't know where the notion of a zero fret being lesser quality comes from, I find that puzzling. It will actually give you a better tone from open string to fretted note. I can't see that being a bad thing. :)
Nuts can be almost anything and you left out brass, which to me really acts like a zero fret. Oh yeah some people use Delrin or Corian too. I actually have a bass that has a Birsdeye Maple nut, it actually sounds quite good.
Dirk

I'll come out and say it, zero frets are over rated. So is nut material. I usually use graphite nuts because they are easy to file quickly and look good with most of my stuff. I think zero frets are a good idea for a beginer making his or her first fretted bass since they dont have to worry about getting the fret slots correct.

I don't know where the notion of a zero fret being lesser quality comes from, I find that puzzling.

I have heard that it just comes from history. Lower end guitars were often made with a zero fret which gave the zero fret a reputation for being lower quality.

Actually, a brass zero fret sounds like it would wear down a little faster than a standard fret wire zero fret.

Does brass give you something more/different.

BTW, I like the look of a birds-eye maple neck with a AAAAA Quilt Maple top - they go nice together.

- bsb

Just kidding about the "Nut"s thing! :)

I'll come out and say it, zero frets are over rated. So is nut material.

But ya gotta have a nut (or zero fret anyway) so I guess a black graphite nut is your choice?

- bsb

Nut or Zero fret, in the hands of a competent builder, it won't make a difference except for the open note sound, which the difference can be completely negligable depending on the composition of the nut.

I'll come out and say it, zero frets are over rated. So is nut material. I usually use graphite nuts because they are easy to file quickly and look good with most of my stuff. I think zero frets are a good idea for a beginer making his or her first fretted bass since they dont have to worry about getting the fret slots correct.

so, according to you, what are the drawbacks? IMO NUTS are overrated, they force you to use only one string gauge and if you choose to change that, you'll have to take your bass to a repair person (the player, I mean). There is no practical reason to use a nut.

so, according to you, what are the drawbacks?

To be honest, I feel the biggest drawback of a zero nut is it does not look good, which is obviously a matter of taste. I'll probably get some heat for this but I think they're gimmicky.

IMO NUTS are overrated, they force you to use only one string gauge and if you choose to change that, you'll have to take your bass to a repair person (the player, I mean). There is no practical reason to use a nut.

Why would you not have to do the same on the nut of a bass with a zero nut? The nut still dictates the width of the strings, only it does not control height, the zero fret does.

...
Why would you not have to do the same on the nut of a bass with a zero nut? The nut still dictates the width of the strings, only it does not control height, the zero fret does.

You can make the groove on the nut V shaped, that will accomodate any string gauge and not have to worry about action or width.

2 of the basses I currently have in progress will have no nuts. I'll use the end of the fingerboard to guide the strings. THAT'S IT! NUTS OFF! :D

IMO NUTS are overrated, they force you to use only one string gauge and if you choose to change that, you'll have to take your bass to a repair person (the player, I mean). There is no practical reason to use a nut.
If a builder made a nut that could only take one gauge of string I would return the bass and find a better luthier. I prefer zero frets myself but I can cut a nut that will work with a wide range of gauges with no problem.

Wouldn't the strings on a fanned fret guitar or bass tend to roll a bit if you used a zero nut on a fanned fret neck?

Odd combination but just a thought.

- bsb

If a builder made a nut that could only take one gauge of string I would return the bass and find a better luthier. I prefer zero frets myself but I can cut a nut that will work with a wide range of gauges with no problem.

while I'm not trying to get into an argument, the point is that most builders and production facilities pay little attention to the nut. Even on my zero fret basses I ensure the nut is as flawless as possible. I also make my non-zero fret nuts to fit different gauges, I do this by using a low profile nut blank and cutting shallow grooves instead of the buried string usually found on production nuts. Those buried string nuts will limit your choice of string gauges if you don't modify them. Of course, you could live with the tuning problems not taking care of that brings.

So then nuts do not force you to only use one gauge, Just crappy nuts. ;)

Even a "buried string" nut will handle different gauges especially if you notch the bottom of the slot and don't cut it to be snug on the sides, which is wrong in the first place.

You can make the groove on the nut V shaped, that will accomodate any string gauge and not have to worry about action or width.

2 of the basses I currently have in progress will have no nuts. I'll use the end of the fingerboard to guide the strings. THAT'S IT! NUTS OFF! :D

Point taken. Congradulations on your nuts.
:smug:

Thats a lot of talk about Nuts.... I dont like nuts either :smug:

I like zero frets better than nuts for technique. If you have enough space between the zero fret and pseudo-nut then you van slide up from an open string easier (if you even do slides... like me.)

Also you can replace the pseudo nut (with different widths, or strung backwards and not have to worry about anything except that the nut keeps the spacing in order.)

I like zero frets much better. Nuts are overrated. Zero frets are underrated. Just my humble opinion though. If I ever have a custom built from scratch it will have a zero fret with a 1/2 inch gap between it and the nut.

Joe

If I ever have a custom built from scratch it will have a zero fret with a 1/2 inch gap between it and the nut.

Joe

Any particular reason for this spacing?

- bsb

Any particular reason for this spacing?

- bsb

well it doesn't have to be quite 1/2 inch but I have a read custom that has less than a quarter inch space and I can BARELY slide up from the zero fret. I just want enough space for my finger to sit behind the zero fret

It just occurred to me that with an angled headstock and a straight string pull-through to the tuners you might not need any nut at all (including grooves in the edge of the fingerboard, etc.). Has anyone tried this?

It just occurred to me that with an angled headstock and a straight string pull-through to the tuners you might not need any nut at all (including grooves in the edge of the fingerboard, etc.). Has anyone tried this?

I could see that working. Different amounts of string winding on the tuner post might screw things up though.

I could see that working. Different amounts of string winding on the tuner post might screw things up though.

I don't see how that's relevant to the nut. Bee basses has been doing this for some time.

So then nuts do not force you to only use one gauge, Just crappy nuts. ;)

NO ... a properly cut nut has each slot cut for a specific string diameter. if the slot is too loose, you lose string vibration energy to the loose slot which can many times be heard as a buzzing in the slot. if the nut slot is too tight, the string will not seat properly resulting in diminished performance

don't believe me? go load a .105" E-string into a nut that's been cut for a .100" E and tell me you got it to magically account for the string being .005" too wide for the slot. I know you are going to have tuning issues with this, because the string will be bound and not want to slide freely while tuning

don't believe me? go load a .040" ZG-string into a slot cut for a .045" G. while this will tune easily without any binding, you may experience an issue with your set-up due the the missing string diameter - it would depend on how your action and relief are set. you will also most likely experience you string damping off when played open. this is the result of your nut slot being too loose.

how to solve it on a bass with no zero fret? have a new nut cut to match the string gauges you are now playing. this is a non issue if you had a zero fret, since the nut serves only to keep string spacing in order

all the best,

R

To be honest, I feel the biggest drawback of a zero nut is it does not look good, which is obviously a matter of taste. I'll probably get some heat for this but I think they're gimmicky.

what is a zero nut?

zero frets are less gimmicky than pointy guitars and hippie-sandwich bodies, as they serve a defined and specific function. OK, you don't like them ... then don't buy a bass that utilizes one.

a question for you - have you ever played a quality bass that utilizes a zero fret? or is your opinion based solely on aesthetics alone?

all the best,

R

I could see that working. Different amounts of string winding on the tuner post might screw things up though.

String trees, maybe? In fact, with that solution you could do it with a straight, i.e., Fender style, headstock, especially since they already have the straight pull-through.

It just occurred to me that with an angled headstock and a straight string pull-through to the tuners you might not need any nut at all (including grooves in the edge of the fingerboard, etc.). Has anyone tried this?

a slotted nut (or string slots in the fingerboard) is utilized to lock the string spacing into place. failure to do this will result in your string spacing slipping all over the place because there is no secure point close enough to lock them into place.

try this: fret a note at the third fret, then attempt to slide it back/forth perpendicular to the neck centerline. it moves quite a bit, eh? you would get this same kind of response at the zero fret if you don't have a slotted nut (or fingerboard) close to the zero fret

I like about a 3/16" gap between the zero fret and the slotted nut. it's not so close that it interferes with my playing, and it's not so far that the strings slide around any discernable distance

all the best,

R

I don't see how that's relevant to the nut. Bee basses has been doing this for some time.

That response was specifically about a bass without a nut.

NO ... a properly cut nut has each slot cut for a specific string diameter. if the slot is too loose, you lose string vibration energy to the loose slot which can many times be heard as a buzzing in the slot. if the nut slot is too tight, the string will not seat properly resulting in diminished performance

don't believe me? go load a .105" E-string into a nut that's been cut for a .100" E and tell me you got it to magically account for the string being .005" too wide for the slot. I know you are going to have tuning issues with this, because the string will be bound and not want to slide freely while tuning

don't believe me? go load a .040" ZG-string into a slot cut for a .045" G. while this will tune easily without any binding, you may experience an issue with your set-up due the the missing string diameter - it would depend on how your action and relief are set. you will also most likely experience you string damping off when played open. this is the result of your nut slot being too loose.

how to solve it on a bass with no zero fret? have a new nut cut to match the string gauges you are now playing. this is a non issue if you had a zero fret, since the nut serves only to keep string spacing in order

all the best,

RHi, I've been cutting nuts since the '80's. I never try to make a nut snug on the side of the strings as that causes tuning problems. No one does that for bridge saddles, why would a nut require something that a bridge doesn't?

String trees, maybe? In fact, with that solution you could do it with a straight, i.e., Fender style, headstock, especially since they already have the straight pull-through.

String trees could do it but then they'd be performing the function of a nut on a zero fret.

In Europe, zero fret equals quality. No zero fret implies lower Q.

I have never touched an instrument with zero fret, that hadn't great tone and playability.
I have touched intruments without zero fret, of good Q and some annoyingly out of tune.

There can be a nut-ish thing cole to the zero fret to ensure string spacing, but that can be excluded - the tuners are close enough to hold the string. The string tension is pretty high... A flat headstoch and single side tuners will complicate that approach:help:

Bottom line: zero fret, anytime.