Anyone know any theory on playing punk Music?
Or any tips. Preferablely HArdcore punk

What do you mean by theory? As far as actual western musical theory the same basic rules apply, except in a much less strict fashion. Things like voice leading (i.e. parallel fifths) are not only allowed but a core part of the make up (friggen power chords!) Also, there is a slight trend towards much simpler functional harmony in punk. Mostly I, IV, V, ii, and vi chords as opposed to vii iii and things like secondary dominates (i.e. V7/ii etc.) although the dominate bVII chord does show up a lot resolving to the flat three. I doubt there are many comprehensive punk theory books out there due to the fact that the very nature of the style is unstructured and somewhat homegrown, and this is just my take on it as an occasional listener but not an avid fan of the style.

I had to smile at this one. Brought back a painful memory.
As a senior in HS in 1969 I was studying music theory and had all the basic "RULES" in mind of how music was made. One night I heard a rock/blues band that was very popular locally (think Cream, Jeff Beck etc etc). During a break I went up to on of the players and asked, "when you are all improvizing, how do you keep from playing parralle fifths?" I got no response, and I think you can imagine the look he gave me. That night was the pivot point for my life to exploring jazz and rock music (and one small step away from nerdom).

"Punk Music Theory" would only exist in any usable form if Punk music were dead (then some Harvard shmoe could write a book about it). There are however some stylistic things that you must to do sound 'punk'. You can learn them at "iTunes", "Amazon.com", "CD Baby" and a host of other 'textbooks'. In the end, your ears are the only rules.

Aren't the words "punk" and "theory" incompatible? :)

Playing with a pick using all downstrokes is a key component of the style.

Lots of root of chords, preferably in straight eighth notes and pump it out on top of the beat like a SOB

Playing with a pick using all downstrokes is a key component of the style.
I don't know about that, Alvaro. There are a lot of punk bassists who use a pick with all downstrokes, but there are just as many who use fingers, and there's even a few who alternate pick. I think it's opened up considerably since the early days.

BTW, Cristo, very insightful.

Everyone on this thread is wrong, hardcore is the purest form of goodness in the world, and comes from the heart, and not a book. It's whatever you want it to be, and don't let anyone tell you how to do it "right"

IME, the words "punk" and "theory" are not usually found in the same sentence. LOL!

Just play every note like its your last. Theres no need to be technical. If it sounds good, play it, bash it, thump it, hit it!:bassist:

I don't know about that, Alvaro. There are a lot of punk bassists who use a pick with all downstrokes, but there are just as many who use fingers, and there's even a few who alternate pick. I think it's opened up considerably since the early days.

Oh, of course, Jimmy! My point was that playing all downstrokes with a pick is a distinctive component of the style (BTW, Flea mentions this aspect of playing punk in his Starlicks video with River Phoenix), but it doesn't mean that it cannot be played fingerstyle. I'd play with my fingers if I were in a punk band since I hardly use a pick. :)

Dynamics and tempo are very important (e.g. loud and fast!).

Well I guess I should mention this. I use my fingers, two of them.
I'm used to playing classical, metal, blues, and folk.
Anything I can do to adjust?

i like to play punk and if you consider blink 182 punk (their label does) then some advice would be to play lots of roots, and throw in some 5ths and octaves here and there. Just some simple 8th note patterns.

Punk is all (and I mean ALL) about conviction and feel. 'Tis all I have to say.

o yea, using a lot of notes from the A string or "Middle" of the bass is a good idea too for punk. Using lots of mids feels more punchy, like a punch to the gut.

A good bassline I reccommend to get into the punchy feeling is Lycanthrope by +44.

Yes. I do have some advice on what to adjust here :)

I'd consider not thinking in "genres" you play and looking for the various tricks contained within each and start thinking of yourself as a musician who commands a number of techniques to support the bass range of a song regardless of genre.

There's just as much reason to use stacatto thumping in country and western music as there is to use some slap and pop or mellow lines in punk or metal based music, and mixing these techniques makes you a more versatile musician.

Aren't the words "punk" and "theory" incompatible? :)

Pretty much.
Lots of root of chords, preferably in straight eighth notes and pump it out on top of the beat like a SOB

That's all there is to "punk" really. :smug:
Everyone on this thread is wrong, hardcore is the purest form of goodness in the world, and comes from the heart, and not a book. It's whatever you want it to be, and don't let anyone tell you how to do it "right"

Tell that to all the other genre freaks, namely jazz. :p ;) Listen to some Dead Kennedys man, their bassist had a knack for theory IIRC.

Pick is very helpful unless you can play fingerstyle like Matt Freeman...def 8th notes...play roots but I'd say to look into Craig from Sick of It All basslines and Mike Dirnt from Green Day, and some Pennywise (About Time album and before)

Here's the thing brother-in punk and especially PUNK HARDCORE the bass is sometimes like a lead guitar it cuts through and is very in your face. listen to those bands and you'll HEAR what I mean. in punk hardcore it's common for the guitar to be very distorted and the bass to be the leader in melody and chord progression...especially if the guitar player is playing mainly power chords

Well, I don't know know if it'd be just pumping out eighth notes, because a lot of the punk bands I listened to had some pretty cool grooves every song. Unless their bassists were just that creative....

Learn your pentatonics. In my punk days I found that at the end of every fourth bar full of 8ths a nice fill along with the drums was quite interesting. Also Listen to Mike Dirnt and MAtt Freemans walkups, sometimes in the scale, other times just chromatic. It makes the music flow more and interesting for you.

Playing with a pick using all downstrokes is a key component of the style.Yeah - on a P-bass, right?

Joe

If you listen to anything your being told right now, your music is not hardcore. The most core that you can get is just writing a bassline to a song, however you would normally do it, or else you're a big flammer.

Punk Theory? Shouldn't this be posted in the "Bass Humor" threads? The whole point of punk was attitude over ability.

Aren't the words "punk" and "theory" incompatible? :)

I believe that is an oxymoron. :D

:bassist:

Punk Theory? Shouldn't this be posted in the "Bass Humor" threads? The whole point of punk was attitude over ability.

well, they are some really really good punk songs :smug:

they are few and far between though;)

does AFI count?:confused:

It depends on what you are calling Punk? Sex Pistols and Black Flag or Green Day and Blink 182. Back in the real punk days Steve Jones had to play bass in the studio because Sid Vicous was incompetant, but they kept him in the band because he was the spirit and embodiment of punk.

Sid Viscious was the epidomy of a worthless junky...NOT OF PUNK. Black Flag was a real punk band, as were SSD, Minor Threat, Gang Green, Cro Mags, the list goes on, but not the Sex Pistols.

Some would say the Sex Pistols were the originators of Punk. Wasn't Punk originated in the UK? Most of the bands that you named were americans.

The Sex Pistols were a pre-fab band, like the Monkees. An experiment in marketing.

Punk started in the States with the Ramones and the Stooges.

All the bands I named were American, cause the sex pistols were a joke. However, the Clash who were the greatest punk band of all time, were English.

The Sex Pistols were a pre-fab band, like the Monkees. An experiment in marketing.

Punk started in the States with the Ramones and the Stooges.

:bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :bassist:

The Sex Pistols were a pre-fab band, like the Monkees. An experiment in marketing.

Punk started in the States with the Ramones and the Stooges.

Wrong, the Monkees were the first "punk" band.

:D:D:D:D

UMM what? PUNK IS ABOUT ATTITUDE AND THE SEX PISTOLS HAD THAT. MY FAV PUNK BAND IS THE CLASH THEN THE RAMONES THEN THE MISFITS...BUT THE SEX PISTOLS DESERVE THEIR RESPECT...SID MAY HAVE BEEN A JUNKIE-BUT HE'S THE EPITOME OF PUNK.

NOW HISTORY LESSON...IGGY POP AND THE STOOGES (CONSIDERED THE GODFATHER OF PUNK) (ATTITUDE) LOU REED (THE FATHER OF PUNK) AND THE RAMONES ARE THE BAND THAT STARTED IT ALL IN 1974 NY/NJ...THE CLASH SAW WHAT THEY WERE DOING AS DID THE SEX PISTOLS AND CAME ABOUT IN ENGLAND AROUND 1976. MISFITS, BAD BRAINS, AND WHOLE LOT OF OTHER BANDS CAME ABOUT...PUNK INFLUENCED THE NEW WAVE OF BRITISH HEAVY METAL (IRON MAIDEN BEING THE MOST RECOGNIZED) AND THE BAY AREA "THRASH" METALLERS-METALLICA, MEGADETH, TESTAMENT (METALLICA-INFLUENCED BY MISFITS,MAIDEN, BLUE OYSTER CULT, MOTORHEAD, BLACK SABBATH).

IN THE EARLY 70S BANDS LIKE JUDAS PRIEST AND "ARENA METAL BANDS" WERE IMPACTED BY THE PUNK MOVEMENT AND PUNK BEGAN TO KILL OFF METAL...(THIS WHEN PUNKS AND METALHEADS ALIKE BEGAN FIGHTING) THIS IS ALSO WHEN OZZY WAS KICKED OUT OF SABBATH...WHEN OZZY STARTED HIS SOLO CAREER WITH RANDY RHOADS, METALLICA AND CLIFF BURTON BEGAN TEARING UP THE BAY AREA...PRIEST CAME BACK STRONGER THEN EVER THIS IS WHEN TRUE PUNK ROCK DIED.

SO PUNK DIED OUT IN THE EARLYN 80S RIGHT WHEN THE LA METAL SCENE BEGAN TO FLOURISH AND THE BAY AREA THRASH ALSO BEGAN TO FOURISH.

IMHO PUNK CONTINUED THROUGH PUNK HARDCORE: BLACK FLAG, SICK OF IT ALL ETC LATER 90S POST PUNK OPERATION IVY,RANCID, PENNYWISE, NOFX, FACE TO FACE, STRUNG OUT, AFI, GREEN DAY, LESS THAN JAKE. THESE BANDS HAD SKA, PUNK AND HARDCORE. DURING THE 2000s POST HARDCORE CAME ABOUT INCORPORATING SCREAMO...I'M NOT SURE HOW EMO FITS INTO THIS BUT ANYWAYS...PUNK SPIRITS NOT DEAD, IT'S ATTITUDE.

"PUNK'S NOT AVAILABLE AT THE MALL, IT'S NOT CUTE, IT'S A WAY OF LIFE."-LOU KOLLER, SICK OF IT ALL

I did a little bit on this thread about the kinds of harmony you'd find in traditional punk rock (i.e. the late 70's british stuff):

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=307092&highlight=punk+clash+chord


I don't think the world needs another discussion about the origins of punk rock, all I can say is that if you can't see the lineage of punk rock back via the Stones & The Who to rock'n'roll & Elvis, you need to think again... like most successful styles of music/art/you name it, it mixed the radically new with the fundamentally traditional... neither Lou Reed nor Iggy Pop (nor anyone else for that matter) invented aggressive music, pissing off parents and bored nihilism

If you're looking into theory as a means of learning to play punk, you're taking the wrong approach.
The best thing to do is to understand the origin of punk. Punk was reactionary. It started when a bunch of British kids were tired of listening to disco and popular music. They went and bought themselves instruments and booked a gig the very next day. They didn't know how to play and sounded awful, and that was the point. The point was rejecting the current state of popular mass-marketed music, and they redefined the perceptions of what music should sound like by doing that.
This is why people call The Sex Pistols a joke, because they were a band made for marketing-- completely the opposite of what punk was about.
If you want to play punk, forget theory and start pounding notes. Refine it from there.

the Sex Pistols might be seen as a joke in San Francisco, but here in England they're seen as THE punk rock band, with the Clash a very close second...

all that stuff about marketing and 'not being a real band' was entirely the point of punk for a lot of British kids...

by the mid 70's they were sick to death of their music being fed to them by the SAME generation of musicians that appeared in the mid 60's... all those guys like Pink Floyd & Rick Wakeman and all the rock aristocracy like Elton, McCartney, Jagger, Townshend, Rod Stewart, were STILL the biggest rock stars around... the whole musical atmosphere was characterised by extreme reverence for these 30-something rock stars and their 'genius' works... 'authenticity' was something highly valued...

so, the whole appeal of the Sex Pistols was that they were specifically a group that (apparently) couldn't play and didn't appear to care about it, or about being rock stars in any traditional sense... their very existence as a 'fake' rock band, the deliberate idiocy they projected, and the fact that seemingly anyone could do what they did, completely undermined people's reverence towards rock music and rock musicians... and people in Britain saw this even if people in hippy strongholds like San Francisco didn't :)

Sid didn't need no theory!! :p

Theory? For punk? What theory?

At one time...there was a real band. They weren't very good, just your average kids in the 70's. Their singer and bassist left for they're respective reasons, and feeling defeated, the two remaining members started hanging out with their friend who owned a fetish porn shop. The shop owner got the bright idea to enlist the help of extraordinarily ugly Johnny Lydon, and Sid Viscious. AND SEE HOW FAR HE COULD TAKE IT, AND HOW MUCH MONEY HE COULD MAKE OFF IT. Half the band was picked up and told what to do by a puppet master. REEEAAAALLL "punk" huh?

Like it or not, guys, what Cowsgomoo said is spot on correct. The Sex Pistols are THE iconic punk band--and Sid's total inability to play the bass is just as much a part of punk as anything else. BTW, those of us who listen to Steve Jones's "Jonesy on the Jukebox" here in L.A. know what an incredibly good musician HE is.

For what it's worth, I didn't "get" the Pistols at all when they came out, and didn't have my own punk epiphany until the 80s when I got into Husker Du.

Rid

the Sex Pistols might be seen as a joke in San Francisco, but here in England they're seen as THE punk rock band, with the Clash a very close second...

all that stuff about marketing and 'not being a real band' was entirely the point of punk for a lot of British kids...

by the mid 70's they were sick to death of their music being fed to them by the SAME generation of musicians that appeared in the mid 60's... all those guys like Pink Floyd & Rick Wakeman and all the rock aristocracy like Elton, McCartney, Jagger, Townshend, Rod Stewart, were STILL the biggest rock stars around... the whole musical atmosphere was characterised by extreme reverence for these 30-something rock stars and their 'genius' works... 'authenticity' was something highly valued...

so, the whole appeal of the Sex Pistols was that they were specifically a group that (apparently) couldn't play and didn't appear to care about it, or about being rock stars in any traditional sense... their very existence as a 'fake' rock band, the deliberate idiocy they projected, and the fact that seemingly anyone could do what they did, completely undermined people's reverence towards rock music and rock musicians... and people in Britain saw this even if people in hippy strongholds like San Francisco didn't :)

Punk was anti-commercial by nature. Just because the Sex Pistols were all about money doesn't mean that Punk was. The Sex Pistols became a marketed fad. No **** they were the iconic punk band. It's one of the reasons the movement died about as fast as it started.
If you think a band that contradicts the origins of their genre makes them the greatest band in that genre, then go ahead and think that. They were a marketed product based on the punk movement, and according to you, some people ate it up in Britain.

UMM what? PUNK IS ABOUT ATTITUDE AND THE SEX PISTOLS HAD THAT. MY FAV PUNK BAND IS THE CLASH THEN THE RAMONES THEN THE MISFITS...BUT THE SEX PISTOLS DESERVE THEIR RESPECT...SID MAY HAVE BEEN A JUNKIE-BUT HE'S THE EPITOME OF PUNK.

NOW HISTORY LESSON...IGGY POP AND THE STOOGES (CONSIDERED THE GODFATHER OF PUNK) (ATTITUDE) LOU REED (THE FATHER OF PUNK) AND THE RAMONES ARE THE BAND THAT STARTED IT ALL IN 1974 NY/NJ...THE CLASH SAW WHAT THEY WERE DOING AS DID THE SEX PISTOLS AND CAME ABOUT IN ENGLAND AROUND 1976. MISFITS, BAD BRAINS, AND WHOLE LOT OF OTHER BANDS CAME ABOUT...PUNK INFLUENCED THE NEW WAVE OF BRITISH HEAVY METAL (IRON MAIDEN BEING THE MOST RECOGNIZED) AND THE BAY AREA "THRASH" METALLERS-METALLICA, MEGADETH, TESTAMENT (METALLICA-INFLUENCED BY MISFITS,MAIDEN, BLUE OYSTER CULT, MOTORHEAD, BLACK SABBATH).

IN THE EARLY 70S BANDS LIKE JUDAS PRIEST AND "ARENA METAL BANDS" WERE IMPACTED BY THE PUNK MOVEMENT AND PUNK BEGAN TO KILL OFF METAL...(THIS WHEN PUNKS AND METALHEADS ALIKE BEGAN FIGHTING) THIS IS ALSO WHEN OZZY WAS KICKED OUT OF SABBATH...WHEN OZZY STARTED HIS SOLO CAREER WITH RANDY RHOADS, METALLICA AND CLIFF BURTON BEGAN TEARING UP THE BAY AREA...PRIEST CAME BACK STRONGER THEN EVER THIS IS WHEN TRUE PUNK ROCK DIED.

SO PUNK DIED OUT IN THE EARLYN 80S RIGHT WHEN THE LA METAL SCENE BEGAN TO FLOURISH AND THE BAY AREA THRASH ALSO BEGAN TO FOURISH.

IMHO PUNK CONTINUED THROUGH PUNK HARDCORE: BLACK FLAG, SICK OF IT ALL ETC LATER 90S POST PUNK OPERATION IVY,RANCID, PENNYWISE, NOFX, FACE TO FACE, STRUNG OUT, AFI, GREEN DAY, LESS THAN JAKE. THESE BANDS HAD SKA, PUNK AND HARDCORE. DURING THE 2000s POST HARDCORE CAME ABOUT INCORPORATING SCREAMO...I'M NOT SURE HOW EMO FITS INTO THIS BUT ANYWAYS...PUNK SPIRITS NOT DEAD, IT'S ATTITUDE.

"PUNK'S NOT AVAILABLE AT THE MALL, IT'S NOT CUTE, IT'S A WAY OF LIFE."-LOU KOLLER, SICK OF IT ALL

I didn't read that, but it's what punk is about. Lots of capital letters.

My advice - play Dead Milkmen songs, no one wants to hear any more hardcore punk, we want to hear more Dead Milkmen.

...hardcore punk...Hey: that just reminded me of something. Back in '83 or-so I produced a record for the Wisconsin band NOD (Nuclear Overdose). If you called them 'punk' they'd say "We're not Punk! We're Hardcore."

Since we seem to have some knowledge on the subject here -what was that about.. historically, I mean?

Joe

Some would say the Sex Pistols were the originators of Punk. Wasn't Punk originated in the UK? Most of the bands that you named were americans.

Look up "MC5." Some people trace it to Iggy and the Stooges, but MC5 was probably more influential to the essence of punk music and often get the moniker "protopunk" like the Stooges. People seem to have this idea that punk music originated in England, but it's more the ideologies and "fashion" (mohawks and crap) that were established there. The music was stemmed more from Detroit and New York in the good ol US of A.

Like it or not, guys, what Cowsgomoo said is spot on correct. The Sex Pistols are THE iconic punk band--and Sid's total inability to play the bass is just as much a part of punk as anything else. BTW, those of us who listen to Steve Jones's "Jonesy on the Jukebox" here in L.A. know what an incredibly good musician HE is.

You are right. The Sex Pistols are the iconic punk band, but I think that they are the iconic punk band for the punk illiterate. Most people know the band, but not a lot of people knew Sid couldn't even PLAY. They just know them for their look and two songs, "Anarchy in the UK" and "God Save the Queen." Very overrated band. To me, the Ramones embody everything I see in early punk: breaking a song to its most simple form, speed, energy, etc. They just weren't as unique in their visual style (though everyone wears leather jackets in the scene partly because of them).

I love Steve Jones, but I hate him as a radio DJ. Easily one of the most boring radio personalities I've ever listened to. On the flipside, listen to Henry Rollins' show "Harmony in My Head" (named after the Buzzcocks song) on the same station! His show is terrific. I also somewhat enjoy Joe Escalante's (Vandals) morning show. For an "indie" station that calls itself Indie 103.1, they sure do have a lot of punkers working for them. :)

Hey: that just reminded me of something. Back in '83 or-so I produced a record for the Wisconsin band NOD (Nuclear Overdose). If you called them 'punk' they'd say "We're not Punk! We're Hardcore."

Since we seem to have some knowledge on the subject here -what was that about.. historically, I mean?

Joe

Generally speaking:

Around 1980, (after punk basically died in the public's view) you still had your underground following of punk bands. After a while, elitist punks (namely on the American west coast and in England with bands like Crass, The Exploited, and etc) started claiming that they were more punk because of the studs or the boots or the mohawks. It started becoming a macho, "punker than thou" scene, and it still is for the most part.

On the American East Coast (DC)(think Minor Threat, Fugazi, Black Flag,) you had a bunch of kids who got together and basically said "If I want to wear a tee shirt and jeans to a show and on stage, I'm gonna wear a tee shirt and jeans. Punk isnt about clothing, its about music and revolting". And that is the reason why in the 80's there was the whole "I'm not punk, I'm hardcore" thing started happening.

Now, what was called hardcore back in the 80s and what was called punk then and now is all collectively known as hardcore punk, since these groups get along now. The new hXc hardcore is actually hardline, and thats where a lot of groups blend metal, screamo, emo, industrial, and all the other genres.

Much disinformation here. Crass and Expolited cant even be names side by side in the context that you put it. While Exploited was more about the "look" of punk and a general "f-you" attitude, Crass was saying F_You to the capitalist destructive system and be CONSTRUCTIVE by offering alternative living options and taking stuff liek the food system back into ones own hands.

And hardline barely exists anymore. Most new HxC is NOT hardline at all and hardline was a small lived trend in the early 90's. It does exist, but not in the capacity as it once did.

Punk incorprates many different elements of music and always have. Synths in the Damned, new wave in bands like Flowers in the Attic, Reggae and Dub in The Clash, no-wavish elements in later Crass. Jazzy elements in the Minute Men, Dance music in Chumbawumba.

Oh and alot of hardcore and punk scenes dont get along. Most crust punks arn't hanging out watching bands like Bane or hatebreed and most kids dancing to 100 Demons are not going to check out Witchhunt or Tragedy. Unfortunately the split in scenes are extreme and it was back in the early to late 80's that people got along and drunks sang to Youth of Today and XXX kids went to see DRI.

Oh, and I am deeply sorry that few people can understand punk as a music with theory behind it.

It really depends on your definition of "hardcore punk", but if you're talking like Leftover Crack, The Casualties, and Anti-Flag, just listen to your drummers kick drum. A lot of punk now isn't just 8th notes, but its 16th notes with accents on the 2's and 4's (one-e-and-a-TWO-e-and-a-three-e-and-a-FOUR-e-and-a). A lot of hardcore is in a minor key, so try walking basslines, they kick ass in punk (for example, if you're playing in Am, start on the root (A), then maybe hop to an F, and walk down from the F to an E, a D, a B, and back to an A).

Try throwing in a Circle of fifths progression (which is evident in "Longview" by Green Day). A circle of fifths goes C, G, D, A, E, B, F#, C#, D#, A#, F, and back to C.

Experiment a little, and make sure you can play both minor and major scales well, because you can just walk those up and down depending on the key.

But remember, in punk, and any kind of music, sometimes its better just to chug along and play the root of the chord your guitarist is hitting. If that gets boring, try popping the octave, but add your own flavor to it, don't take my word as the bible or anything.

Wow imagine this. I play punk/ska, and I know my theory?

I meant to group Crass and The Exploited as far as style goes.

I know punk has always incoperated other genres, but I was talking about hardcore of today blending the heavier, more "metal" elements of it. (such as Chiodos and Senses Fail).

And really the lines are blurry as far as who doesnt get along anymore today. I'm mostly a ska kid, so I try to keep myself out of the whole "who's vs. who's" picture.

I live in a small town, and all we have around here are the old school punk kids, who also listen to new school oi and anarcho-punk (they're all in their teens and listen to The Misfits, Sex Pistols, Black Flag, The Casualties, The Exploited, DK, Minor Threat), and we have the kids who call themselves either hardline (which is probably misnamed) or hXc and they're the ones with the bandanas over their faces and long hair.

Chris,

I actually like Jonesy as a DJ. I'm usually stuck in my car in traffic, though--so his drawling pace works for me. And I like how he's not afraid to play whatever he feels like--be it Bon Jovi, Survivor, or Nina Hagen or BeBob Deluxe. That said, I've tuned in to the Rollins show. Pretty cool: he comes up with some neat mega-obscure recordings.

The funny thing about the Ramones--and I LOVE the Ramones--is that Johnny ran them like a freaking corporation. There was almost nothing spontaneous about them, and they treated the look/sound etc like a franchise. So much for rebellion being the essence of punk (not that I think it should be..).

BTW, if you haven't seen them, there's some cool Fugazi vids on Youtube. Nice Stingray tone there, too.

Rid

Try throwing in a Circle of fifths progression (which is evident in "Longview" by Green Day). A circle of fifths goes C, G, D, A, E, B, F#, C#, D#, A#, F, and back to C.

Wow imagine this. I play punk/ska, and I know my theory?

Yea, except you incorrectly spelled the circle of fifths C#,G#,A# ;)

Yea, except you incorrectly spelled the circle of fifths C#,G#,A# ;)

you didnt exactly get it right either;) C#, G#, D#, A#, F, C, G

it was late and i hit the insert key...

The funny thing about the Ramones--and I LOVE the Ramones--is that Johnny ran them like a freaking corporation. There was almost nothing spontaneous about them, and they treated the look/sound etc like a franchise. So much for rebellion being the essence of punk (not that I think it should be..).


Rid

I somewhat agree except the ramones were so early into the genre that the "style" hasn't really evolved into what is now described as "rebellious punk" but had their own traditional style of rebellion. anything that goes against the grain of tradition is rebellious thus even though we now see them as not so punk, back then they were Outstanding to the worlds eyes. or atleast in their early days :p

Oh, and I am deeply sorry that few people can understand punk as a music with theory behind it.

It really depends on your definition of "hardcore punk", but if you're talking like Leftover Crack, The Casualties, and Anti-Flag, just listen to your drummers kick drum. A lot of punk now isn't just 8th notes, but its 16th notes with accents on the 2's and 4's (one-e-and-a-TWO-e-and-a-three-e-and-a-FOUR-e-and-a). A lot of hardcore is in a minor key, so try walking basslines, they kick ass in punk (for example, if you're playing in Am, start on the root (A), then maybe hop to an F, and walk down from the F to an E, a D, a B, and back to an A).

Try throwing in a Circle of fifths progression (which is evident in "Longview" by Green Day). A circle of fifths goes C, G, D, A, E, B, F#, C#, D#, A#, F, and back to C.

Experiment a little, and make sure you can play both minor and major scales well, because you can just walk those up and down depending on the key.

But remember, in punk, and any kind of music, sometimes its better just to chug along and play the root of the chord your guitarist is hitting. If that gets boring, try popping the octave, but add your own flavor to it, don't take my word as the bible or anything.

Wow imagine this. I play punk/ska, and I know my theory?


wow nice post, this is exactly what i was looking for!!!! I didnt know punk walked much but most of the punk bands I listen too are simple bands that just play the root 5th and octaves, but mainly roots. (blink 182 -- amazing band but way to simple)

For everyone thats saying there isnt "punk theory" Of course there is, thats why its called theory. theory isnt law, its just a legitament approach to playing in this case "punk." Every genre has patterns and tips to go with it that can be seen in many of the artists work of that particular genre.

i think any bassist playing anything that resembles punk ought to own alkaline trio's goddamnit. dan andriano's basslines from their more recent albums have become a lot more simple, but the early stuff was really creative, i think. im not sure how much theory you would learn from listening to it but i think even one casual listen to the bass on the album would make it clear that there's definitely much theory that can be applied to punk.

i think any bassist playing anything that resembles punk ought to own alkaline trio's goddamnit. dan andriano's basslines from their more recent albums have become a lot more simple, but the early stuff was really creative, i think. im not sure how much theory you would learn from listening to it but i think even one casual listen to the bass on the album would make it clear that there's definitely much theory that can be applied to punk.

I like Dan Andriano quite a bit, but when I first got it I had to listen to Goddamnit for awhile in order to distinguish his lines in the mix. It was more the mix than his playing, though. He's good. For more Andriano stuff people should check out Slapstick or The Falcon.

As for the Ramones debate, it's true that Johnny ran the show. But Johnny was also a Reagan lover among punks. Talk about rebelling against the rebellion. That makes him rebellious, right? ;) At the very least he stood up for what he believed in despite getting tons of flack about it. That's still punk to me. To me punk has always been the music of suburban teenagers. That's the only reason why you have so many anti-establishment songs and so many poppy, snotty love songs side by side on the shelf. It's definitely an oxymoron that you can have some many people saying "f-you" to the government yet be such slaves to love.

I actually like Jonesy as a DJ. I'm usually stuck in my car in traffic, though--so his drawling pace works for me. And I like how he's not afraid to play whatever he feels like--be it Bon Jovi, Survivor, or Nina Hagen or BeBob Deluxe.

I love his music selection, and I think he's a great guy plus he's what made the Sex Pistols great. I just can't stand when he starts talking forever and drawling, which comes up more often than I like. Less talk, more rock please. :)

Listen to Klaus Flouride!

For more Andriano stuff people should check out Slapstick or The Falcon.

amen