So, we played this new-to-us venue on Saturday. Very swanky part of town. Nice place, really big. There are tv's everywhere...in the dining area, in the bar...everywhere. So maybe we should have expected this...

The freakin' boxing match was on, and the freakin' baseball game was on, and the venue left the sound on. We asked multiple times for the sound to be turned off (tv on, use the mute button), but they wouldn't do it. They turned the tv's in the bar down a bit, but would not mute them.

It was *very* annoying! Every time we reached a rest in the music, we could hear the tv!

If people wanted to watch the fight or the game, they could have gone into the bar, which had a glass wall between us and the area where you could drink at a table. There were seats in there where they could have watched the sports with the sound on. But nooooo. No, the band's gotta put up with the tv volume being on. Its not enough that we have to fight for the crowd's attention from the tv...no, they have to have the sound on, too.

How often do y'all encounter this? Is there any magic word we can say to make venues turn the freakin' tv volume off? This isn't the first time its happened, but it *is* the first time a venue has refused our request to turn the tv volume off.

Cherie

Have never been turned down for requesting the volume to be cut.

I did see a strange sight on Saturday night though. I went to see a friends band play at a VFW. The band was set up in a corner and right behind them was the Twins baseball game on a huge big screen TV. No sound, but very distracting.

Lex

We don't work in joints where the TV volume is on. If they can't turn it off then they usually aren't interested in the music (in my experience).

My band doesn't take a gig until we see the room in full swing and get a feel for what the venue is like. If it's a younger, harder rock room, we know we'll do poorly there. If it's a big sports bar, we know that'll be a problem, as well. So we just avoid those places, telling the venue management that they'd be better off with a different band.

But we're kind of lucky to be booked regularly, so we can sort of pick and choose our places. We find our best locations are restaurants that have a bar/lounge .... that seems to fit our music (older classic rock) and we've been really fortunate to have secured a steady circuit of places to play ..... :cool:

Have never been turned down for requesting the volume to be cut.

I did see a strange sight on Saturday night though. I went to see a friends band play at a VFW. The band was set up in a corner and right behind them was the Twins baseball game on a huge big screen TV. No sound, but very distracting.

Lex

Ewww, that *is* distracting! There was a huge tv screen behind us, too, but thankfully, it wasn't on.

I do understand people wanting to keep up with a game, or whatever. But if they want to hear the sportscast, too, they should watch at home.

Cherie

We get lots of gigs. Since I joined the band almost a year ago, we've had 100 gigs.

I asked one of the regulars at this bar whether they always leave the tv volume on. He said not always, but if it is a slow night and the customers seem more interested in the game on tv, then they are allowed to have the sound on. Since there was a lot going on in Austin this weekend (Cinco de Mayo, Pecan Street Festival, a big golf tournament in the area we played in), and the crowd was much thinner than normal, they figured people wouldn't pay attention anyway.

We did have a group of people who were there for the music, but they all left early because they have kids at home with babysitters. Understandable. Also, a lot of people stopped to listen, coming out of the restaurant, but they had kids in tow, and so didn't stay long. Such is a restaurant gig.

Drummer (who books the gigs) and I talked about this. We've decided that if at the next two gigs we play there, we have to battle the tv volume, then we won't book more.

I've just never, ever played a place that kept the tv volume on while the band was up. I think its very rude, and wondered whether other places did this, too, or if it was unique to this rather nose-in-the-air bar.

Cherie

I regularly play at a large casino that has a drop down screen for watching sports events. We finally reached an agreement with the casino to just wait until the sports were over to start playing. We have ended up playing one or two less sets because of this in a given night. The way I look at it; they hired us and if they are foolish enough to pay us handsomely to watch baseball then thats fine with me.

I regularly play at a large casino that has a drop down screen for watching sports events. We finally reached an agreement with the casino to just wait until the sports were over to start playing. We have ended up playing one or two less sets because of this in a given night. The way I look at it; they hired us and if they are foolish enough to pay us handsomely to watch baseball then thats fine with me.

Hubby's band used to play a place that made them wait 'til the game was over before they played. They quit booking there. Expressly for that reason.

Yeah, I guess its ok to get paid to watch baseball, so long as you still finish at the scheduled time and get the same pay. Unless, like me, you can't stand to sit around watching sports. If I have to wait 'til the game's over, I'm leaving. I didn't hire a sitter so I could watch a baseball game, you know?

If you do have to play during the game, do they turn the tv sound off?

Cherie

Hubby's band used to play a place that made them wait 'til the game was over before they played. They quit booking there. Expressly for that reason.

Yeah, I guess its ok to get paid to watch baseball, so long as you still finish at the scheduled time and get the same pay. Unless, like me, you can't stand to sit around watching sports. If I have to wait 'til the game's over, I'm leaving. I didn't hire a sitter so I could watch a baseball game, you know?

If you do have to play during the game, do they turn the tv sound off?

Cherie

Every venue I have played at have turned the volume down at the bands request. The volume of those stupid slot machines is really loud at alot of casinos I play at. Those darned things sound really annoying and are alot louder than any TV I have heard. I'm willing to put up with it because they pay us well, treat us pretty well and the gig is close to home. 15 minutes after I get done playing I'm logging couch time.

We played a bar a couple of weeks ago that didn't want us playing until after the Vancouver-Anahiem playoff game was over. There we're a bunch of Canuck fans in the crowd. We had no problem with it as my partner and myself are both hockey freaks. The only real problem was that the game went into double overtime and we didn't start playing until midnight. We were only supposed to play until 1:00 a.m. but we went until about 1:15 when a party of about 20 people showed up and sat right in front. They wanted us to keep going and bought a jug of beer for us to give us incentive. We played another six or seven tunes and were ready to call it a night when a girl in the party came up with a hundred bucks she collected from the crowd and asked us to keep going. We played until quarter after two when the bartender came up and gave us the cut off sign. All in all a good night.

I've just never, ever played a place that kept the tv volume on while the band was up. I think its very rude...
+1 I've had them leave it on by accident, but they always turned it down when asked/reminded.
The way I look at it; they hired us and if they are foolish enough to pay us handsomely to watch baseball then thats fine with me.
+1 I can live with that!

Every venue I have played at have turned the volume down at the bands request. The volume of those stupid slot machines is really loud at alot of casinos I play at. Those darned things sound really annoying and are alot louder than any TV I have heard. I'm willing to put up with it because they pay us well, treat us pretty well and the gig is close to home. 15 minutes after I get done playing I'm logging couch time.

Yeah, slot machines are *awful*. I can't stand the sound of them. My husband loves to gamble, but I always end up with a headache because of all the "bing-bing-bing-bing" of the machines.

I'm sure happy I don't have to play casinos! But it does sound like y'all get paid real well.

When we go to Tunica, I always try to find the casino band and hang out and listen to them. The slots bore me to death, and I'm just not a person for playing games at all. But it gets me out of my MIL's house and out for some drinks, so I go. And, hey, those Tunica casino bar bands enjoy it when they have someone paying attention, not just killing time until they're ready to go back and gamble again. We're there during the holidays, so the crowd is really thin, so I tip them and applaud and give 'em WHOOTs!

Cherie :)

We played a bar a couple of weeks ago that didn't want us playing until after the Vancouver-Anahiem playoff game was over. There we're a bunch of Canuck fans in the crowd. We had no problem with it as my partner and myself are both hockey freaks. The only real problem was that the game went into double overtime and we didn't start playing until midnight. We were only supposed to play until 1:00 a.m. but we went until about 1:15 when a party of about 20 people showed up and sat right in front. They wanted us to keep going and bought a jug of beer for us to give us incentive. We played another six or seven tunes and were ready to call it a night when a girl in the party came up with a hundred bucks she collected from the crowd and asked us to keep going. We played until quarter after two when the bartender came up and gave us the cut off sign. All in all a good night.

Yeah, that's kinda like playing a gig at a sports bar when UT has a football game on tv. Impossible. May as well enjoy the game (thank God I like football) or go somewhere else 'til its over.

But, unless we have some girl (or someone) giving us a hundred bucks to stay and play late...we ain't playin' late. Ain't our fault that the venue booked a band on a UT game night, ya know? ;)

Cherie :bassist:

+1 I've had them leave it on by accident, but they always turned it down when asked/reminded.

+1 I can live with that!

Yeah, us, too. 's why we were freaked. No one's ever refused to turn the sound off before! "Down" ain't enough. We want it on mute, or at least down so low we can't hear it at all.

Oh well. Unless this venue starts producing a decent crowd, I don't think we'll fiddle with it much longer.

Cherie

Yeah, slot machines are *awful*. I can't stand the sound of them. My husband loves to gamble, but I always end up with a headache because of all the "bing-bing-bing-bing" of the machines.

I'm sure happy I don't have to play casinos! But it does sound like y'all get paid real well.

When we go to Tunica, I always try to find the casino band and hang out and listen to them. The slots bore me to death, and I'm just not a person for playing games at all. But it gets me out of my MIL's house and out for some drinks, so I go. And, hey, those Tunica casino bar bands enjoy it when they have someone paying attention, not just killing time until they're ready to go back and gamble again. We're there during the holidays, so the crowd is really thin, so I tip them and applaud and give 'em WHOOTs!

Cherie :)

The casino gigs in my area pay about 2-3 times what the local clubs play so I am willing to put up with a few minor inconviences to play there and, like you, I am not a gambler. I swear after playing a casino gig I have the sound of those danged slots in my brain for a week.

The casino gigs in my area pay about 2-3 times what the local clubs play so I am willing to put up with a few minor inconviences to play there and, like you, I am not a gambler. I swear after playing a casino gig I have the sound of those danged slots in my brain for a week.

Oh, I'll bet you do, for sure! It'd drive me crazy. They must pay *really* well! LOL! Couch-and-tv-time would be the only cure.

The nearest casinos to us are out in the Gulf, or on the Sabine or the Mississippi, or wayyyy out west on the Mescalero rez. Too far, thank the gods.

Cherie ;) :bassist:

Once played a place where we were booked for 9, but were informed at 9 that most of the patrons wanted to watch a U of Maryland football game that was playing on the west coast and could we please not play until the game was over.

at 11:30

that sucked.

happened again last year at a local bar which wanted to completed "Ultimate Fighting" pay-per-view first (do you really need to hear the sound???). ended at 12:25 am. We were asked to play "one long set until 2". I was really pissed off.

It really pi@#es me off having to fight either the background music, the Jukebox or a TV screen when you are booked to play. Our PA guy has a CD player in his Rack, so If the venue refuses to turn these items off whilst we play, we put on some free Jazz CD's really loud whilst we have our breaks. The venue manager usually see's our way and complies!!
Cheers,
Rusty

Also, Dj's that wont shut the hell up and you spend 15 minutes waiting on stage for him to finish, so you can start. That usually after he has played all the songs on your set list. I hate DJ's............1.....................2........... .........3 ahhhh feel better now.

rusty

Once played a place where we were booked for 9, but were informed at 9 that most of the patrons wanted to watch a U of Maryland football game that was playing on the west coast and could we please not play until the game was over.

at 11:30

that sucked.

happened again last year at a local bar which wanted to completed "Ultimate Fighting" pay-per-view first (do you really need to hear the sound???). ended at 12:25 am. We were asked to play "one long set until 2". I was really pissed off.

Oh, that *does* suck!!! Especially being postponed for freakin' UF. No, you really don't need to hear the sound for that. Jeez!!!

As for football...

When I watch football at home, most of the time, I have music on, and am doing something like folding laundry, where I can stand there and keep and eye on the Longhorn game. Or Dallas. Or the Texans. Or the Titans. ;)

Now, if I can do all that and still know when UT's gotten a first down, or had a bad call, why can't people let our bands play during the game?

Cherie :bassist: :ninja: :hiding:

It really pi@#es me off having to fight either the background music, the Jukebox or a TV screen when you are booked to play. Our PA guy has a CD player in his Rack, so If the venue refuses to turn these items off whilst we play, we put on some free Jazz CD's really loud whilst we have our breaks. The venue manager usually see's our way and complies!!
Cheers,
Rusty

Free jazz...wonderful idea!!! Drummer keep a cd player in the gig trailer, just in case we need to fill dead air during a break.

BWA-HA-HA-HA-HAAAAA!!! Turn off the tv, or its free jazz for 15 minutes!!!

Cherie ;)

Also, Dj's that wont shut the hell up and you spend 15 minutes waiting on stage for him to finish, so you can start. That usually after he has played all the songs on your set list. I hate DJ's............1.....................2........... .........3 ahhhh feel better now.

rusty

I hates me some DJ's, too. They either cut into the band's time, or they flat take the band's job altogether.

Same goes for karaoke. Every time I've played a place that has karaoke on first, the karaoke dude cuts into the band's time. "Dude, we go on at 9:30. Its 9:00. We still need to set up." "But I still have people on my list!"

AAAARRGGGHHH!!!

Cherie :ninja: :hiding:

All this goes to show that you should never take the stage without a written agreement. It doesn't have to be long, or fancy. But it should spell out the basics: times, conditions, money.

If the venue is not willing to do this, it's not a step up on the ladder of success.

peace,
memphissound <><

All this goes to show that you should never take the stage without a written agreement. It doesn't have to be long, or fancy. But it should spell out the basics: times, conditions, money.

If the venue is not willing to do this, it's not a step up on the ladder of success.

peace,
memphissound <><

Cha, I wish. I don't do the booking.

And, really, there aren't many places we play that would deal with us by contract. At our level of the game, no one does it. Because there are so many bands here, the venue can just hire someone else, you know?

Now, we're just getting into places where you have to book through a promotor, who may book for a number of venues. Gone up a rung on the ladder, I suppose. (Although I don't see where the promotor is getting us any more money than we made before...hrm.)

If *I* were dealing with this promotor, instead of our drummer, I think I would make *her* work with us on contract, merely because she hasn't done much for us, earnings-wise.

But most of the direct-booked venues we play are too, um, "informal" (if that's the word I'm looking for) for contracts.

Cherie

If you write it up right it's an easy sell.

Just show the venue mgmt. that it protects them also.

Times: They know when you'll be there to set-up and play and that you won't bug out early.
Conditions: They know that you have their patrons enjoyment as top priority.
Money: Spelled out so there's no argument at the end of the night.

It's the music BUSINESS.

peace,
memphissound <><

If you write it up right it's an easy sell.

Just show the venue mgmt. that it protects them also.

Times: They know when you'll be there to set-up and play and that you won't bug out early.
Conditions: They know that you have their patrons enjoyment as top priority.
Money: Spelled out so there's no argument at the end of the night.

It's the music BUSINESS.

peace,
memphissound <><

Never had any real problems with times or money from venues.

Except when UT's got a game on Saturday night.

Sadly, that's a very common practice here, making the band wait 'til the game is over. (Doesn't happen much downtown, but in the 'burb pubs, its all too common.) If you won't go along, you don't get booked again. Period. You can have a contract that says you'll start at 9 no matter what's on tv, if you like, but don't expect to be booked with that.

My deal is mostly with the sound. OK, have the tv on if you just gotta. But turn the sound off. If the venue agrees to that, I'm happy.

But that promoter...*she's* the one who gives us b.s. over money and times. She got us free gigs, promising that if we were liked, we'd get paid gigs. But when we tried to book again, she said we'd have to not only play more free shows at that particular venue, but *give her 15% of our tips*!!! We told her that if she wants 15% of anything, she'll have to get us paid gigs. She'll get no tip money.

She books us for 10 p.m., then calls at the last minute to say we'll play at 8, and we'd better hurry. GRRR!!! I have sitters to schedule!!!

She does stuff like that a lot.

*She's* the one we need a contract with, because I don't think we can trust her at all. She books a lot of venues around here, but I wish we didn't have to deal with her at all.

Cherie

Well, here's a nickle's worth of free advice from an "experienced" (older) player.

Get this book:
"Music Law: How to Run Your Band's Business"
http://www.amazon.com/Music-Law-Your-Bands-Business/dp/1413305172/ref=sr_1_1/103-9108461-2749423?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178798855&sr=8-1

It's the best $30 you'll ever spend for the band.

It covers 99% of everything you'll need. And it has sample contracts you can use and modify as necessary.

peace,
memphissound <><

most places won't do contracts. If you demand a contract, you won't be booked. it's that simple.

here's the basic deal, folks. Unless you are a wildly popular band in your area, you really are not in a good bargaining position for anything. you are part of the "help" - an employee. Not much different than the bartender, really. You are there to do what they want you to do. You either do it, or you find somewhere else to play. There are probably a hundred bands that are chasing each venue. You are expendable.

Well, that maybe so for some venues. But it's only because we've allowed ourselves to be used that way. And I guarantee the bartender knows: when he is supposed to be there, what he is expected to do, and how he will be paid.

For TXBASSCHIK, she's got a "Promoter". Even if she doesn't get an agreement with the venue, she ABSOLUTELY NEEDS a contract with the promoter.

peace,
memphissound <><

Well, that maybe so for some venues. But it's only because we've allowed ourselves to be used that way. And I guarantee the bartender knows: when he is supposed to be there, what he is expected to do, and how he will be paid.

For TXBASSCHIK, she's got a "Promoter". Even if she doesn't get an agreement with the venue, she ABSOLUTELY NEEDS a contract with the promoter.

peace,
memphissound <><

+1

IME the music "business" is the most un-businesslike business in the world.


Good thing we're in it for the love, huh?

Well, that maybe so for some venues. But it's only because we've allowed ourselves to be used that way. And I guarantee the bartender knows: when he is supposed to be there, what he is expected to do, and how he will be paid.

For TXBASSCHIK, she's got a "Promoter". Even if she doesn't get an agreement with the venue, she ABSOLUTELY NEEDS a contract with the promoter.

peace,
memphissound <><

QORC is correct, and so are you.

In the Austin area, if you walk into a bar with a contract, and you're not a "big" act, they will laugh you all the way out the door, and then call one of a jillion other bands that will play without a contract. Contract + Not-A-Bigtime-Act = No Gigs in Austin.

That being said, I agree that we *do* need a contract with the promoter. She relays the time, payment and other gig info to us from the venues. She books us at the venues. Since she isn't giving us what she's promised us, with either time frames or pay, and since she is demanding 15% of gigs where we have no minimum pay, and our tips...we need a contract that will protect our interests, since she is *not* protecting our interests. (Nor hers, apparently.)

My husband's band has to use the same promoter. She got them the same free gig at the same venue she'd booked us. Sadly for them, they were not able to get as many people to come to their show, and they only made $8. She insisted on her cut. So...they put a dollar bill in an envelope and mailed it to her. She was livid, but they told her that this *was* her cut, too bad, get some decent paying gigs and everyone makes money.

The woman is unclear on the concept of music promotion, evidently.

Cherie

IME the music "business" is the most un-businesslike business in the world.


Good thing we're in it for the love, huh?

Sho'nuff.

You know, when we booked all our own gigs, we got good minimums or percentages, and we *never* had "mixups" over time or pay. But this promoter chick is booking for so many of the venues around here, there are not very many places we can get into without having to work with her. I'd rather play the little bars close to home, for love, since we made the same kind of money playing them, without the extra aggravation, time and travel and gasoline. Let's ya feel the love much more stongly that way!

Cherie

we don't use a promoter or agent, thank God. We don't work enough to get them interested in us. that's ok. We've found enough places in our area on our own. Until we get where we can't get gigs on our own, we won't go with an agent. They really can be horrible to work with. I was put out of a band because the agent convinced the rest that they could find someone better. Guess what? they no longer exist. Gee. They found out that I did a lot to promote the band and keep it together.

Contracts? We'd be laughed out the door in a bar situation.

we don't use a promoter or agent, thank God. We don't work enough to get them interested in us. that's ok. We've found enough places in our area on our own. Until we get where we can't get gigs on our own, we won't go with an agent. They really can be horrible to work with. I was put out of a band because the agent convinced the rest that they could find someone better. Guess what? they no longer exist. Gee. They found out that I did a lot to promote the band and keep it together.

Contracts? We'd be laughed out the door in a bar situation.

Yeah, I really feel like we could do better on our own. Heck, we *have* done better on our own. If we didn't have to go through that promoter, we woudn't.

The way it seems to work down here is that a promotor will hook up with a bunch of bars, and get those bars to let her do all their booking. So, if you wanna play that bar, you have to use their promoter. And yes, it gets us a *lot* of gigs, but not many that pay more than 10% of the bar, or tip with the promise of pay later.

Which has turned out to be b.s. -- *always*. And not just for our band. Hubby's band, and two others we know of, have the same problem. With the same promoter.

This past weekend was *awesome*! Hubby's old band, my current band, and the old band we were in together, all got up and played at our favorite bar. It was mainly a Knowbodys gig, but everyone got plenty of time to play.

There is video footage of Chrome Wheels on our page (myspace.com/thechromewheels). I'm on three of them.

The Knowbodys showcased our newest songs, which we will record tomorrow night at The Sweat Box. The crowd favorites were "I Am Here For You", a gorgeous female metal ballad drenched with guitar, and "Sleeping The Day Away", a garage/alternative story of, well...sleeping the day away!

I can't wait to get the cd done. :)

Oh, yeah...the tv was on. No sound. And no one was watching it!!! :hyper:

(Reposting the gig report in the appropriate thread.)

Cherie :hyper:

I think it must vary a lot, city to city. In DC, honestly, you needed an agent to play almost anywhere that was decent in the Virginia burbs. And we found one easy to work with that was happy with our 3-4 times a month schedule.

In Philly, agents have a big role, yes, but there seems to be a lot of places to book where you don't need one. And some agents will let you book with them just on a case-by-case basis instead of signing your whole destiny over to them. That's ok with us.

Personally, I liked the one we had in DC. The experiences I've with agents up in Philly have not left me feeling very positive. Most don't even want to talk to a band that isn't playing 2-3 times per week.

I think it must vary a lot, city to city. In DC, honestly, you needed an agent to play almost anywhere that was decent in the Virginia burbs. And we found one easy to work with that was happy with our 3-4 times a month schedule.

In Philly, agents have a big role, yes, but there seems to be a lot of places to book where you don't need one. And some agents will let you book with them just on a case-by-case basis instead of signing your whole destiny over to them. That's ok with us.

Personally, I liked the one we had in DC. The experiences I've with agents up in Philly have not left me feeling very positive. Most don't even want to talk to a band that isn't playing 2-3 times per week.

Those agents prolly think that if you don't play out much, they won't make anything off you. But that's silly, because they make money from every booking, no matter how many you have.

That's why I love to play the Lone Star, and Remington's. You don't need a promotor to play there. Lone Star is all about the love, and the wonderful crowd, and the funky vibe, and having fun. Remington's treats us beautifully, and pays decently, too. And there is NO PROMOTOR!!! :hyper:

They do leave the tv on, but the sound is off. Lone Star has only two small tv's. They have a big one, but it is kept in a corner with a throw over it...it is for movie and game nights, only, and there is no game night on Saturday, 'cause that's band night. Remington's has a buncha tv's over the bar, with one large one, but they always keep the sound off while the band is playing.

I love those bars!

Cherie :) :bassist: