I am posting this in reference to the McCartney thread.

I love Wyman's style. I am a huge Stones fan. Since I have learning this damn 4-stringed instrument, Wyman's playing has been a great influence on me. That guy can walk around a bass.

I'll take him over McCartney anyday, but that's just my opinion. Paul is a great musician as well.

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Acacia,

I too am a big fan of Bill Wyman!!! Although I can't name him as an influence, I have to admire his approach.

Wyman doesn't follow any of the so-called rules and just does his own thing, and it works!! In fact, I remember reading an interview where he stated that after 25 years of being the bassist for the Stones, he still had no idea what he was doing! ( I'm sure he meant that tongue-in-cheek.)

The coolest thing about him? His basslines are simple, yet extremely effective. To me, that is the mark of a bassist of the highest caliber.

Cheers!!


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Life is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

I agree with all that's been said so far. I like "She's So Cold" - simple but very effective. Also check out "Anyway The Wind Blows" by Bill Wyman and The Rhythm Kings - that has some nice tunes and great playing.

- Wil



[This message has been edited by Wil Davis (edited July 14, 2000).]

Bill is very underated. Hell, he held the bottom dowm for quite a while. While not an Entwistle or a John Paul Jones, his playing was always rhyhmic and supportitive.That's what the Stones are about. The Rollong Stones are one of the few rock bands that really groove and swing. Even the Beatles never had the bump and grind of the Stones. Compare Jumping Jack Flash to Get Back, there is a real difference in how the Rhythm section swings

Bill Wyman is a very clever musician. Just listen to the basslines from "Start me up" or "Satisfaction". He doesn´t think like a guitar player at all. The bass on those songs contribute a lot to the Stones sound! I don´t know how he thinks when he constructs his basslines. They sound a bit wierd when you concentrate on them but Bill makes the songs sound even better with his playing.

Yeah, one more thing. His playing on "Honky Tonk Women" is wonderful. Simple stuff but only he can do it. Feel the groove he has going during the choruses after the solo. It makes my hair stand up!

Still prefer McCartney but have always loved Wyman. Now he definately never received as much appreciation as he deserved.

I'm especially fond of his bassline on Under My Thumb and King Bee.

I too like his groove in "under my thumb".

I cant help but wonder if we wouldnt be wise to check out the Bassists that influenced him.I know that Bill wyman is the only one that can play like Bill Wyman,but wasn't he influenced by early blues cats like Willie Dixon?

I seem to remember an old interview with Eric Clapton where EC was asked how it felt to have so many young players copying him.EC said something like"I'm tempted to think that,but why should they copy me when they can listen to Freddy King and B.B.King and other greats."Sorry for using a guitarist as an example.

I think part of what makes Mr.Wyman's Bass lines so appealing is that they are closer to original Blues masters.

little piece of Wyman trivia:

he didn't play bass on sympathy for the devil. if you ever see their avante garde film of the same title, you see keith doing the thumping.

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That is right. Keith is a good bassplayer too, with a very different style than Bill. He also played on Jumping Jack Flash and the great track Live With Me from the Let it Bleed album. Keith recorded Sympathy for the Devil with a flatwound strung pre CBS P-bass through a Vox bass amp. (I think it was a solid state Super Foundation with a 18 inch speaker.) The other stones guitarists Mick Taylor and Ron Wood have also played bass on some recordings by the band. Taylor played a J-bass for a few tracks on Exile on Main Street. I think it was Ventilator Blues and Tumbling Dice. Ron Wood laid down the bass on many tunes, one is Hold on to Your Hat from Steel Wheels. Bill Wyman says he hated Rons bassplaying. Too much flash! I think it was OK but maybee it fitted The Faces/Rod Stewarts solo projects (where Ron actually was the bassist) better than Stones.

Actually, Ronnie Wood played guitar with the Faces. He played Bass with Jeff Beck. He was pretty good in a power trio setting.

Ronnie Wood also played on Emotional Rescue if I'm not mistaken. Keith has a cool bass style, very Reggae influenced from his MANY years exploring that style.

Interesting to note, that Bill has very small hands and has always played short scale basses. When Keith or Ronnie play, they usually play a Full scale P-Bass or J-Bass.

I always thought Ron Wood was a fine bass player - well above average and a semi mediocre guitarist.

Acctually, Ron Wood played bass on parts of the Rod Stewart albums Gasoline Alley, Smiler and Every Picture tells a story. Give his "lead" playing on Maggie May a listen! He also did most of the guitars on those albums. Other bassplayers for the records were Ronnie Lane and, I think, Willie Weeks. (W.W also played bass on the song It´s Only Rock ´n´ Roll by the Stones...)

>After about ten correct picks he gave up.Wyman is a distinctive player.About the >Beatles vs.Stones thing,I think each rhythm section was unique and perfectly suited to their respective situation.

Yep!

>Personally I dont feel McCartney would fit in too many other bands.He plays too much and varies his lines to the point of distraction from the song.

I can't say I agree. The only thing I find distracting about McCartney's playing is just how nicely it fits the song. I can't deny that he 'could' be busy but no busier, IMO than a lot of other very excellent bassist. Jemmott, Jamerson, Bruce, Enwhistle, etc all wrote very busy bass lines but never to the detriment of the music.

Bill Wyman I feel could fit in other situations better.

Wyman is truly excellent especially in the Stones setting.I think his playing adds hooks and compliments the "weave" Richards talks about.I am not a "details" type person,I dont know what strings or amp this guy or that guy uses,but one of my writing partners is.He tested me on picking out Wyman from Keith and Ron W.Hed play the Stones CD and I would guess.After about ten correct picks he gave up.Wyman is a distinctive player.About the Beatles vs.Stones thing,I think each rhythm section was unique and perfectly suited to their respective situation.I couldnt see Charlie Watts in the Beatles,or McCartney in the Stones.Personally I dont feel McCartney would fit in too many other bands.He plays too much and varies his lines to the point of distraction from the song.Bill Wyman I feel could fit in other situations better.

Kind of off the Bill topic but talking about Beatles and Stones in each others bands, I always thought a great lineup was the Rock and Roll Circus band with
John Lennon(vocals,Guitar)Keith Richards(bass),Clapton(lead)and Mitch Mitchell(drums).

Can you imagine if they had played for a few months together? Keith's Bass and John's Rhythm Guitar would have been great!! Total straight forward Rock and Roll Rhythms!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bass66:
Kind of off the Bill topic but talking about Beatles and Stones in each others bands, I always thought a great lineup was the Rock and Roll Circus band with
John Lennon(vocals,Guitar)Keith Richards(bass),Clapton(lead)and Mitch Mitchell(drums).

Can you imagine if they had played for a few months together? Keith's Bass and John's Rhythm Guitar would have been great!! Total straight forward Rock and Roll Rhythms!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you are correct!

Check out the song "Miss you" its his best and most famous bass line. Its god damn improvisation through the whole song. Its really hard to play, cuz he changes it all the time. Still its super great, disco groove.


I have the song in the Guitar Pro and have almost learned all in it. It is pretty hard when he does thouse walks up.


dodidodidodiodi.

Check out the song "Miss you" its his best and most famous bass line. Its god damn improvisation through the whole song. Its really hard to play, cuz he changes it all the time. Still its super great, disco groove.


I have the song in the Guitar Pro and have almost learned all in it. It is pretty hard when he does thouse walks up.


dodidodidodiodi.

Great bassline, I was actually playing it (or trying to) off of tab while watching football today. Lots of variance on the main riff, it truly grooves!

Coolest bass player ever.
Love his tone on 'Have you seen you mother baby'

Bill doesn't get a lot of love, but you don't cut that many steller tracks without having something going on. Two quick songs to check out - We Love You and Street Fighting Man. The latter has this amazing swing feel to it.

Coolest bass player ever.
Love his tone on 'Have you seen you mother baby'

I believe that's Keith. :hiding:

When we do a Stones set I play this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v383/iamthebassman/tearbass.jpg

i think the stones are a great band and they wouldnt be the same without him but....

he can shake hands with ringo starr and thank their luck that they were in the right place at the right time rather than raw talent...he only got into the stones because he had his own bass rig.

i think anyone who is backed up by charlie watts cannot help but produce some great stuff....and bass in the stones could have probably been somone else at the time and they would have still made it.:hiding:

"can you hear me knocking" (off Sticky Fingers) is on the radio now-

the bass has always sounded out of tune to me on this and some other stones songs-
I wonder if that's because he used his old defretted bass on this?

"can you hear me knocking" (off Sticky Fingers) is on the radio now-

the bass has always sounded out of tune to me on this and some other stones songs-
I wonder if that's because he used his old defretted bass on this?

Very very possible. If you listen to some of those old tracks you'll hear some pretty interesting tuning on the guitars as well. :eyebrow:

There is one old Stones track that comes as close to totally disintegrating as anything I've ever heard that actually was released. Check out "I'm Free" - all of it. :eek:

"The Singer Not the Song" is pretty interesting too. Not a bad tune, but the tuning is dreadful. Andrew Oldham must have been napping during that one.

I believe that's Keith. :hiding:

:eyebrow:

:eyebrow:

Haha, seriously. I believe it's Keith.

Me, I don't know 100% for sure but I only first heard that song not all that long ago (strange considering I'm no kid) on Sirius Radio's Underground Garage. I thought to myself that that DOESN'T sound like Bill. Sure enough, the DJ guy says that was Keith on bass. Those Underground Garage guys are pretty damned good with their obscure rock facts & add to that Keith played bass on ALOT of the studio tracks in the same period that "Have You Seen..." was recorded, I believe it IS Keith.

Is this Little Stevens underground garage we're talking about?

Didn't know that about Keith. But I still dig Bill tone of many of their early tracks.

Is this Little Stevens underground garage we're talking about?



Yeah, tho' I can't recall if it was Little Steven hosting. But those guys know their stuff.

I love Bill's playing too but ya gotta admit that the bass sounds distinctly different from most Stones on that particular track. Raw, in-yer-face & punk-like.

I love Bill Wyman. I can definitely name him as an influence. I've been listening to the Stones since I was a very tiny child. One of my earliest music memories is of being allowed to stay up and watch Ed Sullivan so I could see the Stones. I have been a Stones fan almost literally since I could speak.

I love how Bill can do his own thing and elegantly support the song, and bring out the best in every song.

That's one reason I miss the KB's so much. We did a lot of Stones covers.

Cherie

Bill doesn't get a lot of love...

I caught the tail end of some cheesy show on PBS called, I think, The British Beat. A mix of old clips and a new multi-band show featuring sixties bands where there's prolly just one or two guys from the original band (& most of 'em lesser acts to begin with, Chad & Jeremy, that sorta stuff). Anyway...

...they get to the end credits where first it says "Dedicated to the memory of John Lennon & George Harrison...Thanks for the music John, Paul, George & Ringo."

Page two of credits, "Dedicated to the memory of Brian Jones...Thanks for the music Mick, Keith, Brian, Charlie & Ron." :hmm:

Check out the song "Miss you" its his best and most famous bass line. Its god damn improvisation through the whole song. Its really hard to play, cuz he changes it all the time. Still its super great, disco groove.

There's some apochryphal story about Billy Preston coming up with that bassline & teaching it to Bill...maybe someone else has the details.

The coolest thing about Bill's playing is how anonymous it is. I mean, I was a big Stones fan throughout my formative years, concurrent with learning the bass, so Bill must've been a huge influence on my playing. And yet to this day I don't think I could point to a single idea, approach, lick, or line in my playing that I actually picked up from Bill.

The way I can tell if Keith or Ron or Mick T. played bass on a track? If I notice the bassline, then I immediately know it wasn't Bill! ("Miss You" being the obvious exception.)

Anyone interested in Bill Wyman might want to check out his book "A Stone Alone". Real interesting stories about him and his role with the Band, and all the ....fun...they had before, during, and after his time in with them!

One story I appreciated was how humble Bill was/is about his playing-He talks about being at a Music Festival somewhere and hearing a virtuosic bassist perform solo. Wonders out loud how he achieved so much success whle other greats remain anonymous. Pretty cool considering his "position"; real down-to-earth.

Bill did a great job with the Stones, from playing solid pocket R&B/Blues in the early albums (12 X 5=great!) to holding down the bottom on tons of great Jagger/Richards tunes.

I've seen both him and Daryll Jones perform with the Rolling Stones, and even though DJ is one of the most talented Bass guitarists playing today, I preferred what the "OG" of the "Stones brought to the table.

Bill's personae and his style of playing were probably as much a part of the Stones as anything else.

love bill wyman's playing very original. i just downloaded the some girls album and have been digging it. always liked that album

The coolest thing about Bill's playing is how anonymous it is. I mean, I was a big Stones fan throughout my formative years, concurrent with learning the bass, so Bill must've been a huge influence on my playing. And yet to this day I don't think I could point to a single idea, approach, lick, or line in my playing that I actually picked up from Bill.

I grew up on the Stones too, and I realize quite often now, that I'm trying to channel Wyman a bit when I'm going for a very behind the beat, loose feel that almost swings, against an otherwise straight beat, like the way he and Charlie had their push-pull thing going on. Helluva lot harder than it sounds! I think "rubbery" would be the best adjective I could think of----very very cool indeed . . . .

I think it's interesting to note that when Wyman left, I believe they courted Joey Spampinato(or at least I figure Keith did), but for whatever reason, it didn't happen. He's one of the only other guys who comes close to Wyman's vibe(while maintaining his own awesomely loose vibe:) DJ is a fine, all-around "session-y" player, but man, I sure would have like to see them with Spampinato!

:cool:
I always liked Bill's playing.

I would never call him a great player.
A solid player, in a great band.

Always hoped Joey Spampinato, would have replaced Bill, when he left Stones.

The Chuck Berry DVD, with Keith, and Joey Kill.

There's some apochryphal story about Billy Preston coming up with that bassline & teaching it to Bill...maybe someone else has the details.
Bill himself said that in a Guitar Player interview (back before Bass Player). He said that Billy was a great bassist.

BTW, I was fortunate to see Billy's next to the last two shows at Bowzer's Rock And Roll Party at the Mohegan Sun Arena in Connecticut. He was in pretty bad shape and had to be pushed around in a wheelchair, but once he got onstage, it was amazing! I got to talk to him briefly and he was a very nice guy. Had a killer band wth him, too. Very funky. Played a version of "Amazing Grace" on the organ that would make you cry.

Bill always played the coolest equipment too. Seen a pic of him with a Steinberger. But my fave of his is the teardrop shaped hollow Vox.

my 2 favourite Stones bass lines are 'undercover of the night' and 'nineteenth nervous breakdown' (the runs at the end)

I caught the tail end of some cheesy show on PBS called, I think, The British Beat. A mix of old clips and a new multi-band show featuring sixties bands where there's prolly just one or two guys from the original band (& most of 'em lesser acts to begin with, Chad & Jeremy, that sorta stuff). Anyway...

...they get to the end credits where first it says "Dedicated to the memory of John Lennon & George Harrison...Thanks for the music John, Paul, George & Ringo."

Page two of credits, "Dedicated to the memory of Brian Jones...Thanks for the music Mick, Keith, Brian, Charlie & Ron." :hmm:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=315075&highlight=dangerfield

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=315075&highlight=dangerfield

Ah yes, The Search Function. Good Ol' Searchy. Sorry. And your quotes are more accurate too as I was going from memory.

I love 7.5 year old threads!

Let me preface this:
It's often said 'there's Beatles guys and Stones guys;' I'm a "Beatles guy." I like the Stones, but it's not really my style. I prefer Beatles songs, and I greatly prefer McCartney. IMO he's the perfect bass player. He's the reason I started playing music, and playing bass.

Last year I took a job in a Stones "tribute" band and I had to learn a large chunk of the Stones' catalog. The guy that hired me had played in a couple of projects with me, and seen me perform dozens of times- he told me to learn the songs, but play them like myself (which, I would imagine, is a tremendous compliment) and things would come together in the middle. The other thing he told me is that I should follow the "Keith" parts, not the drums.

My first impression is there is so much space in Wyman's playing- and the songs. My natural instinct is to fill that space. If you fill that space- it sounds wrong. I'm not a very "notey" or "busy" player, but IMO the hardest thing about playing Stones songs is fighting the natural tendency to fill space. The rhythm and groove come- it's about maintaining your fluidity with playing such sparse parts.

As I grow more familiar with the songs, the more I find myself playing them more like Wyman. Not because "that's how Bill Wyman played it," but because that's how the song makes sense.

Playing with this band has been the single biggest learning experience for me since learning to play in a rock trio format.

Another thing that was really different was bass tone. I've ALWAYS used a bright, "ring-y" tone. My Jazz bass and G&L L-2000 have been my go-to basses for over 10 years. I brought my Jazz to the audition- but that was far too bright- even with the tone rolled off, it was too "present" (and there were old strings on there at the time). I remember pics of Wyman with short scale basses, and hollow bodied basses- I had an idea of where to go. My main bass for several years was my old Thunderbird. But it's been mostly sitting in it's case since I got the Jazz. The T-Bird never sounded the way I wanted it to- but I could see that this is the type of thing that suits the tone of the T-Bird. No, it's not short scale, but it's got this low middy thing going on without the "presence" of a Fender style bass.

While I was thinking about the whole Wyman Bass Tone thing, one thing intrigued me about those 60s basses- the mutes. You can hear the fast decay on a lot of the mid Beatles stuff- presumably, that's the mute on the Rick. Watching the Beatles "Revolution" clip- it's Paul playing the first Hofner, with a huge chunk of foam directly in front of the bridge. I decided to give that a shot on the T-Bird. I cut a chunk out of an old neoprene mouspad and it fit really nicely under the strings, but on top of the bridge. While it's not a sound that I would like for much of what I would normally do-it's absolutely perfect for doing the Stones thing.

http://images.lilypix.com/albums/userpics/10038/normal_T-BirdMute2.JPG
http://images.lilypix.com/albums/userpics/10038/normal_T-BirdMute3.JPG


One of these days I'll get the nerve to actually use my first bass- a 1971 EB-0- for this project. After 20+ years of trying to get it to sound like something else- it has a usable tone, and this would suit this instrument perfectly. There's two problems with that- first, that bass is UGLY. I got it when I was a kid and I've pummelled the crap out of it- different bridges, different pickups, let loose with a Dremel tool... Secondly, the headstock has been broken off at least 5 times (though I've never been the one to break off the headstock) so I'm kind of worried about reliability.

http://images.lilypix.com/albums/userpics/10038/normal_EB-0body.jpg

Ah yes, The Search Function. Good Ol' Searchy. Sorry. And your quotes are more accurate too as I was going from memory.

I didn't like they way they forgot Bill either. I'm glad someone else noticed.

I was so glad to see this thread.
I admire Wyman a great deal.
He always have been my idea of a great player not for so much what he plays but rather what he doesn't.
The absence of notes in the right places make the drums POP.
I love this approach to bass playing.
With a solid drummmer it's pure heaven.

To follow up on the Ron Wood as bassist thing, if I remember the story correctly, Bill Wyman came in late one day. Ron was playing bass. After the song, he said, "So, Bill, whaddaya think?" Wyman, because he thinks Ron plays too busy, says, "Bloody 'orrible! Where's the BASS?!"

Then one day, I think they were messing around with "Satisfaction", and Keith hit a wrong chord. Bill says, "No, Keith, that should be an 'E' there". Keith gets a bit irritated and says, "I should know, I wrote the f***ing song!" Bill says, "Maybe so, but it should be an 'E'". Keith hits an "E", and says, "Oh yeah, you're right." It made me laugh because I could just picture Keith, being in a drug and/or alcohol stupor, making such a mistake, even though it was his own song.

I've been in a Stones mood all week.... I've got "Sticky Fingers", "Some Girls", "Goat's Head Soup", "Emotional Rescue", "Let it Bleed", "Tattoo You" and "Undercover" all mixed up on random since the weekend :)

You must give Get Yer Ya Yas Out...Live at Madison Square Garden..

There are a few great tracks on that collection..

I was so glad to see this thread.
I admire Wyman a great deal.
He always have been my idea of a great player not for so much what he plays but rather what he doesn't.
The absence of notes in the right places make the drums POP.
I love this approach to bass playing.
With a solid drummmer it's pure heaven.

+1000. Great comment! Everyone agrees that Charlie Watts is one of the best drummers in the history of rock music, but not enough people give Bill Wyman the credit for providing just enough bump to expose that sickeningly ontime backbeat.

What a strange thumb posture? But the results were great...

Nuff said...

I think Bill got the Mustang around the time of "Jumpin' Jack Flash". I'd imagined Keith saying something like "Bill, you're in one of the two highest paid bands in the world, the Framus has got to go" (not to imply Bill cared what Keith or anyone else thought) and then he got the Mustang. I know he prefers smaller basses, but always thought it was kind of cool how he played what he wanted.

Very very possible. If you listen to some of those old tracks you'll hear some pretty interesting tuning on the guitars as well. :eyebrow:

There is one old Stones track that comes as close to totally disintegrating as anything I've ever heard that actually was released. Check out "I'm Free" - all of it. :eek:

"The Singer Not the Song" is pretty interesting too. Not a bad tune, but the tuning is dreadful. Andrew Oldham must have been napping during that one.


That's part of the awesomeness of The Stones though, that ramshackle vibe where it seems like only one or two of them actually know whats going on during any given song. But somehow, it all works. At least, most of the time.

I love Bill Wyman's playing. I think the term "rubbery" is a great desription of his playing style. Hearing the band now with Darryl Jones only helps to spotlight Wyman's unique contribution to the band's sound.

I do think "Tattoo You" has the best tracks for dissecting his style, as for once he's further up in the mix, and the album's got a very bright, clean sound.

"Start me Up", "Worried about You", and "Tops" are all great examples. His rhythms appear to be shadowing the rhythm of Jagger's vocal at times....perhaps that's a big part of that off-kilter groove that defines the Stones?

I'm curious about the foam pad next to the bridge? Just how does this affect the sound?