I just starting playing bass a couple of months ago. I am mostly interested in blues. I was wondering what someone like me could expect with regard to how good they might develop with time. I know it's a hard question to answer with any certainty, but does anybody have any ballpark ideas? Maybe true life stories, like after 1 year of practicing at least 1 hr per day, I was able to ... and then after 2 years I could... and so on. Or maybe "it took me a year for my notes to stop buzzing" etc.

Do you have any musical background (played piano before, played in band in school, etc). That will help (but it's not mandatory).

You can be good enough to be in a band in about 6 months to a year, if you work hard and go about things the right way. (Not a prog or jazz band, I mean a basic rock or blues band). Paul Simonen was only playing for 6 months when he joined the Clash. He became a really good player over time.

An hour is okay. See if you can increase that. It takes me an hour just to feel warmed up (not that I'm a monster bassist, I'm just saying, an hour is kinda minimal). The more time you spend working on it, the faster you will improve.

Play every day, too. Got a big test or super busy at work, no time? Play at least 15-30 minutes anyway (it's hard to imagine anyone who doesn't have 15 minutes).

Find a good teacher. This will accelerate your progress.

As a musician for the last four years, I find that the best thing you can do, is play everyday. Even if just for a half an hour, less is better even, just aslong as it is every day and not just two days of the week. Just abit every day will help. :) Play scales up and down the whole neck helps on technique, make it sound good, make it sound tight, and just play and enjoy yourself! Good luck!

Thanks for the reply. I do have some musical background. I played flute in high school in the band. Not the bass clef, but I learned to read music then. Lately I have been trying to do the modal exercises that Pacman wrote about - how to learn the fretboard by playing modes. So in 6 months you can get decent (especially for blues) if you practice every day?

I just starting playing bass a couple of months ago. I am mostly interested in blues. I was wondering what someone like me could expect with regard to how good they might develop with time. I know it's a hard question to answer with any certainty, but does anybody have any ballpark ideas? Maybe true life stories, like after 1 year of practicing at least 1 hr per day, I was able to ... and then after 2 years I could... and so on. Or maybe "it took me a year for my notes to stop buzzing" etc.


I'm going to do something that's sure to be controversial and answer your question with an exact, short and simple answer; and I'm not even going to try to justify it. But I stand by it.

IT TAKES 10,000 HOURS OF PLAYING TO BECOME GOOD.

IT TAKES 10,000 HOURS OF PLAYING TO BECOME GOOD.


+1

Without wanting to sound pessimistic, some people spend all their lives playing bass (or any instrument) and still dont think they are good.
The golden rules still apply i.e. plenty of practice and patience ;)

It will take time, anyways, ofcourse, and lots of patience .. :P But if you enjoy it, you will obviously just enjoy every step along the way and thing will come together nicely. Just .. don't start double-thumping after a week of practicing, like every "new kid" in town does. ;) (not that I have anything against 'em, though!)

I know you're looking for a simple answer but for most of us our expectations increase as we get better so we haven't gotten "good" yet. :hmm: This is how I feel anyway and I've been playing for 23 years!

IMO the fastest way to get good is to be in a band. Get in one ASAP. Don't worry about whether or not you think you are ready. In fact, DO IT NOW! :bassist:

What is "good?" to you? The better you become, the higher you set the limit for what "good" means to you.

My advice to become "good":
Practice technique a lot. Learn music theory. Practice songs to train your ear to recognize common chord progressions. If you're interested in blues, learn the 12-bar blues pattern and all variations of it that you can find, and learn them in all keys (might sound hard, but once you know it in one key, the rest comes easily). I also strongly suggest you to start playing a little guitar or piano too, to become familiar with how different chords sounds. You need to know the chords and scales to be able to know which notes you can use in walking bass lines, for instance.

Timing is VERY important - always use a metronome or a drum machine when you practice. A metronome helps in learning to play tightly, (i.e. hit the notes on the beats as accurately as possible), whereas a drum machine is better (or at least more fun) for practicing grooves. Practicing along to records also helps. It is possible that you will hate the metronome in the beginning, but when you get better at playing tightly, you will consider it more as a friend, not an enemy. If you hate playing with a metronome, it means your timing is not good enough.


How long it takes to become "good" is up to you. Practice enough and THE RIGHT THINGS! And don't forget to just play sometimes, too. Find people to play with and have fun playing. Only to play by yourself, without a metronome and without focusing on something in particular, will mean it takes longer time to get where you're heading. If you don't push the throttle, you won't move forward as fast as you'd like to.

Finally, get a teacher. Preferably a pro that knows what he's doing and not an average guitarist that thinks bass is just a simple version of the guitar...

Good luck! :bassist:

How long it will take to is impossible to answer. There are too many variables to put a specific amount of time to it. Some of the variables such as prior experience as a musician, have been cited above.

The answer lies in the number of hours you are willing to put in coupled with the course of study you select. If you find a good teacher/mentor who has a good course of study it and you put in the hours you will progress much faster than most people will going it alone. Playing with other people frequently will keep you focused and the instrument in your hands for more hours every week.

Maybe a good way for you to answer it is to look at your life and skills. Ask yourself how long it took you to learn or master a skill set that required a combined physical and mental effort. Both are required to "become good".

This is a game played in hours, more or less. Rest assured more equals more and less equals less.

I just starting playing bass a couple of months ago. I am mostly interested in blues. I was wondering what someone like me could expect with regard to how good they might develop with time. I know it's a hard question to answer with any certainty, but does anybody have any ballpark ideas? Maybe true life stories, like after 1 year of practicing at least 1 hr per day, I was able to ... and then after 2 years I could... and so on. Or maybe "it took me a year for my notes to stop buzzing" etc.


I wouldn't consider myself, "good," but after 2 years and then reflecting and thinking back to how hard it was when I started, I've come a long way. Nobody complains, and my band even likes my bass lines.

My best advise would be to learn a bunch of songs, besides your theory or scales and practice them every day. Maybe even make up your own. Do a whole set list every day, a good hour.

I practice my bands set list every day, when I'm not too busy. At the end of the week I'm very fluid and rarely have to look at my fretboard. And I get that nice feeling where my hands are very relaxed and just know where to go.

Practicing an hour a day is better than cramming it into a 6 hour spree at the end of the week.

I'm going to do something that's sure to be controversial and answer your question with an exact, short and simple answer; and I'm not even going to try to justify it. But I stand by it.

IT TAKES 10,000 HOURS OF PLAYING TO BECOME GOOD.

10,000 hours of playing/practicing the right stuff to become good.

+1

Thanks to everybody for replying. As I'm just a newbie, I'm not disagreeing with the 10,000 hr timeline to become "good," but just to put it in perspective, that is over 27 years of practicing an hour per day, or almost 14 years at 2 hours per day. I better set my sights at something like a year or 2 to get "kinda good" or "okay" and go from there. ;) Thanks again!

I'm going to do something that's sure to be controversial and answer your question with an exact, short and simple answer; and I'm not even going to try to justify it. But I stand by it.

IT TAKES 10,000 HOURS OF PLAYING TO BECOME GOOD.

That is pretty wack that would be practicing like a 40 hour a week job for almost 5 years. I think people are focusing too much on hours the answer involves experience and internalizing a lot of music and developing your ear. The answer I hear from old pro's that sounds right to me is 10 years of playing. The person will be getting good enough to play early on and be playing with groups and so on. But to really become a professional and not only learn all the skills, but to learn to make music with them is about a 10 year process.

Now a Pro musician is much like any working person and should be spending about 40 hour a week at their job. For a musician that is about 20 hour a week of gigs and teaching and 20 hours a week of practice. Remember as you gain experince over the years what is called practice changes from scales, reading, and etc to writing and playing music and working on improvisation.

However long it takes you to become confident in your playing.

6 weeks?

However long it takes you to become confident in your playing.

6 weeks?

No too many are confident in what they are playing, they are just unaware of how little they know. As the saying goes... The more I learn the more I realize how much I don't know.

Really, it depends on how much you practice, what you practice, how talented you are innately, and how you define "good."

One man's "good" is another man's "suck."

Keep playing, and eventually you will look back and know for sure that you are "better."

Whether or not you call yourself "good" yet depends on your mood at the moment - and the size of your ego!

practice hard and don't think about it, then it will come that you're getting better

Set personal milestones. Musicians mature at different rates, I have friends who after picking up an instrument were monsters after two years, and others who didn't mature for much longer.

If you can play with musicians who are better than you, it drives you to become better, and you can gleen from them. Once you are comfortable playing in public... see if there are any local jam sessions for musicians, and go and participate. Jump in there feet first.

how good they might develop with time.
.
Good is a relative term. Compared to some bass players, I must seem very ...pedistrian! Compared to others I'm good!
I have been playign bass for almost 30 years...and I am still getting better!


Maybe true life stories, like after 1 year of practicing at least 1 hr per day, I was able to ... and then after 2 years I could... and so on.

IMHO, You need 20 minutes a day to sustain your current skill level. An hour a day of quality practice will make you better!

By quality, I mean trying to improve. This could be learning or improving a technique. (For example, I always have a method or transcription book on the go). If your playing songs that are easy for you, then work on getting them perfect.

Another aspect of practicing is experimenting. If you play with your fingers try a pick. If you play with a pick try finger style. Try playing really close to the bridge, then close to the neck. Try playing really lightly (and let the amp do the 'work')

I thought of this article I read some time ago when I read this post:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D00E1DC1F3DF932A25753C1A9629582 60&sec=&pagewanted=all

Hmmmm..10,000 hours was mentioned for violinists....

I thought of this article I read some time ago when I read this post:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D00E1DC1F3DF932A25753C1A9629582 60&sec=&pagewanted=all

Hmmmm..10,000 hours was mentioned for violinists....

brilliant article. shows that talent is not always the issue, succes is more about practice and motivation.

now lets do the math... one hour a day practicing every day for a year, (1 x 365) and then times that by ten (10 x 365 = 3650), then times that by 3 (3654 x 3 = 10962).

so to my calcualtions, which are probably wrong, spending an hour a day of consentrated, fully focused practice will make you an expert on an instrument in about 30 years. so technically, the maths would show that 3 hours a day is enough to get good within 10 years. but its just maths, its what you actually put in those hours that gets you places. it means ill be 28 when i get an expert if i consentrated on one instrument for 3 hours a day for 10 years. :O

makes me wish id started to learn guitar or bass earlier. but the school i went to never offered lessons for that, damn fools. dont they know that nearly every child wants to be a guitaring rock star? :p

A LIFETIME!

I think there are a lot of variables that come into play when you mention 10,000 hours. For starters:

1. Is this 10,000 hours of purely bass practice (other instruments)

2. What you practice makes all the difference.

I think for electric bass individual practice is overrated. That is to say its far more important to practice musical feel in a band or ensemble setting. Then again I'm only a half assed bassist in the eyes of all you Double-thumbing, tapping bassists out there. if thats what you want to be yeah play by your self all day on the same scales and techniques. My suggestion go out and find a band play alot of songs with them and try to keep it diverse.

IT TAKES 10,000 HOURS OF PLAYING TO BECOME GOOD.

checkmate

Suppose a 20 year old non-musician suddenly became interested in learning the electric bass and bought a simple bass and amp combo to take home and begin playing. If this person decides to join up with his friends and jam in the garage once a week in addition to learning to play along with his favorite songs on CD every once in awhile then he's putting in about:

5 hrs/wk = 250 hrs/yr = 10,000 hrs/40yrs

That's just about right because if you imagine how this bass player (as a casual musician) progresses, he's going to improve enough to be "not so terrible" in a few months, then "acceptable" in a year or so, then "adequate or OK" for a few more years and finally peak out at "pretty good at some stuff, but overall just decent" for a few more decades until finally becoming "GOOD" by the age of 60 after about 10,000 hours. That's IF he keeps faithfully putting in 5 hours per week average.

But suppose this same 20 year old had decided that he wanted to join a rock cover band and also a small jazz combo at the local community college. He'd be playing about:

10 hrs/wk = 500 hrs/yr = 10,000 hrs/20 yrs

Assuming he continues to play in at least one genuine gigging band and maintains regular playing on his own (as a dedicated amateur or part time professional), he'll be able to progress through "acceptable", "OK" and "decent" and eventually become "GOOD" 20 years later by age 40. But only if he maintains a 10 hrs/wk average.

Finally, suppose our 20 year old decided to jump full time into professional musicianship and played bass (and probably other instruments as well) in several serious groups and ensembles and took related music classes as if this were a full time job:

20 hrs/wk = 1000 hrs/yr = 10,000 hrs/10 years
30 hrs/wk = 1500 hrs/yr = 10,000 hrs/7.5 years
40 hrs/wk = 2000 hrs/yr = 10,000 hrs/5 years ... and so on.

How good you become depends on the accumulation of quality BASS PLAYING time on the clock.

I was born good... came outa my momma's womb with a '57 P in my hands (Ouch!)... Went to preschool with a '64 J.... Went through HS with '71 Ric... did some college with a contrabass and a fretless '71 P... :p

It'll take some time, training and practice. Even after a few months though, if you stick to it, you'll get good enough to start jamming with others at your skill level. Keep at it and after a fews years you'll start to get real competitive.

Bottom line though is to have fun! As long as its fun, you'll keep practicing. And as long as you keep practicing, you keep getting better. Even though I was born good, I still practice every day... :bassist:

Again "good" is so subjective its not even funny. I joined a band a month after picking up the bass (though I had played guitar for a number of years previous... though I sucked). If you want to be in a blues band just start learning standard blues songs. After awhile you'll notice certain patterns are apparent. The blues is great because you can keep it simple or do some improvisation which makes it more complicated. I've been playing for about 2.5 years and though I'm not "good" yet in my mind I can learn most rock or blues standards given enough time. Those guys who can hear a song for the first time and just start playing along and it sounds fantastic... they are "good". I'm not there yet, dont know if I ever will be. Just do it for fun and enjoy the ride. There will always be someone better, but so what?

In relation to "quality practice" there is another article which mentions that the practice needs immediate feedback and constant self-evaluation against goals, not only the act of doing it or purely the amount of time.

http://www.fsu.edu/indexTOFStory.html?lead.expert

But, I agree with some comments above; you need to get out and play with other musicians; this gives you skills you wouldn't pick up just woodshedding at home.

After reading this thread and getting sick and tired of some taking the "10,000" literally, I think now is the time to take numbers out of the question.

2.5 years=24 hours a day-8hours(max. for sleep)..........

Ok ok enough with it.

I used to a numbers guy playing for 15 hours a day for 4 years (high school) from Monday thru Friday. Friday nights I would go get messed up. Saturday morning I would recuperate by jamming for a few hours and both sounding and feelig like ****. Saturday night I would rest and Sunday I'd relax.

That was my routine througout high school. I barely slept and when I did it was during school. I became very very good but not good enough. You see, we all have our own comfort level and most people find it and just chill. That is why you see some guys playing for years but never get any better.

With this being said, I strongly suggest you take a music theory course and learn how to play and read. Of course must keep in mind that who you are and what you want play a big role in becoming "good". For me I gave myself standards that had to be met. Along with those standards I had a teacher and immersed myself into theory for a year in high school. I played in many bands and gigged around knowing I wanted to be a musician for the rest of my life.

I'd like to keep goals and if you are kind of like this it might help you out with your goal.

If you slack off and procrastinate then it'll take you a long time. Ultimately you are the only one that can make yourself better. So if you want to be good or kind of good in a short while, bust your ass.

Hope this helps.

at least 41 + years..I'm not giving up hope. I may good someday.

I'm going to do something that's sure to be controversial and answer your question with an exact, short and simple answer; and I'm not even going to try to justify it. But I stand by it.

IT TAKES 10,000 HOURS OF PLAYING TO BECOME GOOD.

As the botany professor told his class, "You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think!"

I believe your numbers may be a little excessive (depends on your definition of good) but IMHO if they can't be "good" in two years of normal practice, they either should get better instruction, practice more, or find another instrument.

GRANTED: To become a Journeyman Plumber or Electrician it requires 8000 documented hours (just over 4 years @ 40 hrs per week) and a test. To become an administrator or "Master" plumber or electrician you tack on another 8000 documented hours and a much more difficult test.

The key word in this whole discussion was "good". Note it did not say great, phenominal, excellent, or even above average. Good implies average or acceptable (look at most survey lists).

I believe your numbers may be a little excessive (depends on your definition of good) but IMHO if they can't be "good" in two years of normal practice, they either should get better instruction, practice more, or find another instrument.

I like the idea of the 2 year timeline, and maybe this has been addressed a lot of times on TalkBass (and if it has you could just point me to the thread), but can somebody give me a list of things that a rookie like me should accomplish within that time frame? A 2-yr instructional guide. Like a bulleted list of stuff to know or do by the end of 3 months, a half-year, 1 year, and so on. Maybe you can just remember what your progression was over that time, especially if it worked well for you, or maybe with hindsight you realize a way that would have improved your progression (like I should have learned the Mixolydian mode a lot earlier than I did, etc.).

I agree with the 2 year timeline. And if you're not good by then, you should quit.

If you want to get good, my advice is not to have a schedule for practice. If you should be practicing, and you want to go watch a movie, go see the movie and forget practice. If you force yourself to play it, you will associate a hatred with it over time. The best music is born from you love of the bass, and if you have what it takes to be great, you will find yourself WANTING to practice constantly.

I shouldnt take that long... if Jeff Schmidt reached Master level (He gives master classes now) in less than 2 years, I can...he recently posted here when seen on youtube by another player who said that "you cant just wake up one day and play like him"....

"Actually, I did wake up that morning and play that on my bass.

But I traded over a year of nights and weekends for it."

So lets say its 18 months of nights and weekend standard days...say 3 hours a night x 7 and two eight hour days on the weekend, thats 2886 hours. (I cant imagine a bass in my hands for 8 hours straight literally, with some breaks) so maybe its more like 2000 real hands on hours, which is the standard 9-5 full time work year amount.

Sounds like motivation to me.

Don't set a time frame!
I've been playing 7 years, and I'm at school for Jazz Bass. I don't think I'm at the level I SHOULD be at.
Just keep playing, and do what you gotta do. But do it well.

I've been playing for under a year, but I've already been jamming and have gotten decent. People actually say that I'm good, but I know where I stand in the world of musicians. I have been playing drums since childhood so I started with a solid musical background and good sense of time. Just have fun.

My instructor and I were talking recently. This guy has been playing jazz professionally for 45 years (DB and EB), teaches at CSUS, and is an all around amazing player.

He told me the other day, 'I just started being good at it last week. I had a really good gig, so I feel good.'

"Good" is a relative classification so it's nearly impossible to answer your question. Relative to how much natural talent you have, how good your "ear" is, how easily you can pick something up, how quickly your "muscle memory" develops, what those you're playing with/for think of your playing, what type of music you want to play, whether you'll need to be able to read music to play the type of music you wish to play.

Probably the best advice I can give is to NOT set a benchmark by which you judge yourself. Simply develop a real love of the bass guitar - learn and understand its "voice" and make it yours. You will find that developing a love of the instrument takes you far. Then you'll be on your way to being a good player!

Craig

I've been playing bass for about two years now, but have played, and continue to play clarinet in bands/ orchestra for many years. So I can sight read music very well, but had to learn bass clef. First goal when I started was to get "good" enough to play along with other players. Had lots of music software, and stuff to practice with daily. Spent many hours a day practicing.

Took a few months before I played live with a church band. That worked okay and I did not embarass myself. Long way to go though beyond playing root chords off lead sheets. I have Smartmusic software that has lots of classic Jazz standard with music on-screen. I was determined to play as much as I could up to tempo. SIght reading walking bass lines kicked my butt at speeds more than 70bpm. Took several Musicdojo courses under Norm Stockton, and kept playing whatever I could get my hands on.

About a year into playing got to play a 'major' gig for me with a worship team at a summer camp for a week. Their bass player could not make it and I was there and had my bass. We jumped in, they loved my playing and we had a blast. First time playing with an excellent drummer, which was very cool locking in with him. They were rather surprised when they found out at the end of the week that I had played less than a year.

More practicing with drum machines, exercises, and going back to re-visit previously unplayable pieces. Now I find that previous "hard" pieces are now much easier and can do walking bass lines up to 150bpm or so.

Next big step was when I got asked to sub in for a local theater company musical production of Ain't Misbehavin'. I had no idea if I was ready or not until I saw "the Book" and we did the first rehearsal. A couple parts needed some woodshedding, but it went very well. After that I got called to do "Thoroughly Modern Millie" in another local show. Turns out not many guys sight read very well. They found out I can, so am suddenly in demand. That show was a blast, 20's Jazz and the bass played in everything, 134 pages of music. I used my Variax 705 to simulate the acoustic upright bass the music called for.

The key theme here is "good enough" for whatever goal you have set for yourself. I love the bass and the role it plays. Some songs you just play whole notes, and that sound rocks. Other times you can just feel that you need to do a fill or something and suddenly all your scale/mode/arpeggio training kicks in and something very cool comes out without much conscious thought at all.

So have fun above all!

Or you can get a wild hair and decide to build a bass, like I did.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=337390

The real question is; how long does it take to fail? Don't spend too long at it. William Pleeth, cello teacher (famously of Jacqueline Du Pre) advised, for success, in having 'the music' always in mind. I've failed at a stack of things, the great thing about music as Bach said (I read somewhere) you just have to play the right note (hit the right key) at the right time.

I like the idea of the 2 year timeline, and maybe this has been addressed a lot of times on TalkBass (and if it has you could just point me to the thread), but can somebody give me a list of things that a rookie like me should accomplish within that time frame? A 2-yr instructional guide. Like a bulleted list of stuff to know or do by the end of 3 months, a half-year, 1 year, and so on. Maybe you can just remember what your progression was over that time, especially if it worked well for you, or maybe with hindsight you realize a way that would have improved your progression (like I should have learned the Mixolydian mode a lot earlier than I did, etc.).

I would say that in 3 months you should know the note names of any finger position given, you should be able to play basic lines, sticking to the root note of the chords with minor mistakes allowed. Also, you should be starting to use more than one finger on each hand as you play. At 6 months, you should have a knowledge of more than one playing style and the bass components required to make that style sound somewhat accurate and should be using multiple fingers on both hands, emphasizing proper positioning during playing. You should be developing endurance in your hand muscles, and in your shoulders (depending on the weight of your bass :). At a year, I would expect to begin development of your ear training, hearing where a song is going to go. This can start earlier with some people, but learning the fundamentals of the instrument often times is a higher priority. Additionally, you should be developing your sight reading abilities and start to work on alternate notes (thirds and fifths) and minor improvisation. At a year and a half, you should be expanding your repetoir to include at least three different music styles, know your scales, be able to perform moderately difficult passages and improvise solo bass parts.

This is a standard advancement for someone who does not have more than three hours a day to give to practice. Also, some people advance quicker than others; it doesn't mean they are better than the others, it just means they pick music concepts up more intuitively than others. Even musically challenged individuals can have some success in music if they apply themselves to their studies and practices of their instrument.

I hope this helps, I know some will disagree with various points but in general I believe this will give you a good target to aim for and if followed will make you a competent (if not outstanding in your region) bass player.

What is "good"?

I can remember wanting to be able to play with my eyes closed. At the time, to me, that was good. I can do that now. Every now and then, while on stage, I realize I am doing that. Makes me happy.

There are plenty of players who are "better" than me. They know more songs. They can play flasher solos. They have better ears. They can read music. Etc... But I play "from the heart" and that's what matters to me. It's the energy that I put out that makes the difference. I also know WHAT NOT to play and WHEN NOT to play. In other words, I know HOW to play with others.

Sometimes at jam sessions, other players will ask me what kind of pickups I am using. I laugh and say "P.O.S." pickups. They ask where they can get them and I laugh and say "this bass is a $100 piece of s*** that I bought used off some guy."

Other times someone will compliment me on my playing after all I did was play the root note the whole time. No fills, no flash, just the same line verse after verse after verse.

If you want to hear an example of GREAT musicians barely playing at all and sounding great, then listen to the first BLUES BROTHERS recording ( album for you old guys like me...LOL). I mean those guys hardly played anything close to flashy and they are all respected players. But the band was so "tight", you can't help but say it's great music.

Good? No, I am not good. But if I am on stage with you, I won't embarrass you. I just play, it's fun. Hopefully, you'll have fun playing, too. If you don't, what's the point?