So I'm trying to explore the Latin Jazz style a bit but I have no idea what makes Latin, well, "Latin." I'm mostly interested in what scales/modes, chords, and basically the theory behind it. Also, recommendations for recordings would be appreciated!

I'd say it has a lot to do with the rhythm. First of all it's a kind of jazz that has straight 8ths. A lot of dotted quarter notes folled by 8th notes for basslines. Also basslines mainly consist of the root, 5th and octave (sometimes the 9th). The drum beats are distinct as well.

Learning to play Latin is like learning to play Funk its all about getting the feel right. They have many rhythms and names for them. They tend to play in minor quite a bit, and beautiful chords and harmonies. Sher Music has a lot of great books on Jazz and excellent books on playing Latin bass.

Rhythmically speaking, strong emphasis on the + of 2 and generally shifting the emphasis away from the 1. The latin real book and other books by sher publishing are excellent - I have become obsessed with this huge genre lately.

I'd say it has a lot to do with the rhythm. First of all it's a kind of jazz that has straight 8ths. A lot of dotted quarter notes folled by 8th notes for basslines. Also basslines mainly consist of the root, 5th and octave (sometimes the 9th). The drum beats are distinct as well.


I think what you are defining is a specific category of "Latin Jazz" - but not Latin music as a whole!

So - Latin American music covers a huge variety of styles - Brazilian music is quite unlike Cuban music - both of which are nothing like Argentine Tango etc etc :p

Plus - Brazil has many different styles of its own - from funky to gentle acoustic and from loud percussion-only bands to sophisticated Jazz-related music.

There are just too many styles to pin down "Latin" in a single post - more like a very large book! ;)

So I'm trying to explore the Latin Jazz style a bit but I have no idea what makes Latin, well, "Latin." I'm mostly interested in what scales/modes, chords, and basically the theory behind it. Also, recommendations for recordings would be appreciated!


The Clave makes it Latin. If you're talking about Latin Jazz the same Jazz rules apply with respect to harmony, the rhythm however will be different and will largely use the Clave as it's foundation. Things to listen to...Tito Puente, Willy Colon, Ray Baretto, Larry Harlow, Cal Tjader, Eddie Palmeri, Irakere. To name just a few.

Root and 5th, Really fast!!!

The Clave makes it Latin. If you're talking about Latin Jazz the same Jazz rules apply with respect to harmony, the rhythm however will be different and will largely use the Clave as it's foundation. Things to listen to...Tito Puente, Willy Colon, Ray Baretto, Larry Harlow, Cal Tjader, Eddie Palmeri, Irakere. To name just a few.

I would add Jack Sheldon to the list. He was a great trumpet player. He didn't play Latin music exclusively, but he did do it well when he did it. Bossa Nova type music. Sometimes he would take a classical song, Spanish Dance No. 5 for example, and give it a Bossa Nova treatment. I liked his style a lot. I have to find a copy of Jack Sheldon's lp "Out" again.
It's an old record for sure, early 1960's, but it was very good. Wish I could hear it right now.

My apologies for talking about Jack in the past tense! He is still very much alive and kicking.

latin from a general standpoint is fast, and short, with a lot of percussion (clave, timbale, bongo, conga). the two most common modes in latin are the dorian (natural) minor and the myxolydian (dominant seventh) major. often, a piece will rock back and forth between two chords many times before moving on to something else. going around the circle of fifths is also common. vocals are simple, horn lines are aggressive and syncopated, and the keyboard is used more as a percussion instrument than for anything else. true latin (not latin jazz) does not include a drum kit, and is usually played on acoustic bass.

and bass-wise, its generally roots, fifths, octaves, and occasionally sevenths and ninths. simple is better. what makes a latin bass player good is how hard he grooves. many basslines fall on the downbeat, but others like the tombao fall an 8th beat ahead of the measure (yikes). just like a percussion player, a bass player has to memorize all the different lines. once you have the rhythm though, the notes come very easily.

a great guy to listen to is Tito Puente. he's usually on timbales, but his compositions are great.

Tito Puente generally played Afro-Cuban music - which is a quite distinct style from - say a Brazilian Bossa Nova by Jobim, which will also be called "Latin" - but couldn't be more different !

The clave - many different claves - rumba clave anyone? :p

Argentine Tango - gets called Latin music - does it have a clave beat - what is it?

The Clave makes it Latin.

+1.
You could stop right there as THE answer.
I know bassists who have dedicated there entire career on finding and perfecting the clave sync on the bass. Not easy.

Tito Puente generally played Afro-Cuban music - which is a quite distinct style from - say a Brazilian Bossa Nova by Jobim, which will also be called "Latin" - but couldn't be more different !

The clave - many different claves - rumba clave anyone? :p

Argentine Tango - gets called Latin music - does it have a clave beat - what is it?

In general Brazilian and its related Latin style have a downbeat on 1.

Afro-Cuban and the related style don't hit on 1 with IMO more laid back feel. They will usually hit on 4.

Then when play Latin bass styles the ghost notes are very important. Also the technique takes some getting used to the ghost note is louder than following note. That gives that forward motion to the lines.

Nobody mentioned whether Argentine Tango has a clave...:eyebrow:...?

It's all in how the drums and bass interweave with each other. While it's played in pretty much straight 8ths there is a certain kind of swing that is probably almost impossible to notate.

Tito Puente generally played Afro-Cuban music - which is a quite distinct style from - say a Brazilian Bossa Nova by Jobim, which will also be called "Latin" - but couldn't be more different !

The clave - many different claves - rumba clave anyone? :p

Argentine Tango - gets called Latin music - does it have a clave beat - what is it?

for the purpose of latin bass guitar, i'd say afro-cuban is the focus. how often would u play anything else?

I've played Brazilian Bossa Novas all night!

And I've seen Tango and Merengue bands!

There are many things that get called "Latin"....:hmm:

The guys saying "The Clave" have said it all


1-2-3 1-2
and
1-2 1-2-3


over and over and over, there are many variations, and many books, but that is the heart...

So what's the clave for Tango or Merengue...:eyebrow:

You should go to bassplayer tv and watch Ruben Rodriguez's videos . He talks about some big bass players in LAtin music and basic things he knows. Ive always had a love for Latin music and latin-jazz.

Remember people, we brazilians arent hispanic, portuguese share many similarities with spanish, but has a very different musicality.

Not all latin is fast, not all latin is cuban, not all latin is roots and fifths,

OPEN YOUR MINDS FOLKS,

Just go out and get a real book and listen to some of the latin songs in there and go from there.

Not all latin is fast, not all latin is cuban, not all latin is roots and fifths,

OPEN YOUR MINDS FOLKS,

Just go out and get a real book and listen to some of the latin songs in there and go from there.

I agree with your first two sentences and this is exactly what I have been saying in this thread!

So - I have played Samba,Bossa Nova,Salsa/Afro Cuban,Cha Cha Cha,Rumba, Merengue etc. etc.

It could all be classed as Latin and there are also many 'fusions' with Jazz, Funk etc.

You can't pin it down in a few sentences!

So what's the clave for Tango or Merengue...:eyebrow:

Kind of irrelevant, when the original topic is "Latin Jazz" which is primarily "Afro-Cuban" based. :eyebrow:

So I'm trying to explore the Latin Jazz style a bit but I have no idea what makes Latin, well, "Latin." I'm mostly interested in what scales/modes, chords, and basically the theory behind it. Also, recommendations for recordings would be appreciated!

Not all latin is fast, not all latin is cuban, not all latin is roots and fifths,

OPEN YOUR MINDS FOLKS,

Just go out and get a real book and listen to some of the latin songs in there and go from there.

Don't you mean get some "real recordings" and listen to them?

Kind of irrelevant, when the original topic is "Latin Jazz" which is primarily "Afro-Cuban" based. :eyebrow:


No - I think you are wrong on both counts!

So the question is actually :..what makes Latin, well, "Latin." ? Or as per the title - "What defines Latin Music?"

Tango and Merengue are Latin styles of music - end of story - if you are trying to define what makes Latin - then you can't just ignore whole swathes of it, to suit yourself! :hmm:

Secondly I would certainly disgaree that Latin Jazz is primarily Afro- Cuban - most people I know when asked about Latin Jazz start playing a Bossa Nova or Samba rhythm, which is definitely Brazilian in origin.

And some of the most famous Latin Jazz recordings are Brazilian fusions - like Stan Getz with Jobim/Gilberto, Chic Corea with Airto and Flora Purim on Light as a Feather etc etc

There are literally hundreds of Brazilian Bossas which are now Jazz standards and can be heard from just about every big-name Jazz artist!

There are also many Jazz Sambas - written by artists like Jim Hall - who has also absorbed Spanish music into Jazz -which might be yet another Latin influence!

Afro Cuban is definitely an influence on some artists like Coltrane and Dizzy - but in the last 50 years of Jazz I'd say there's far more diverse influences that can be classed a "Latin"!

Not tradional Latin bass lines but some hot bass playing check out Lincolin Goines work with Dave Valentin especially the Live At The Blue Note, that is some burning Latin music. Lincolin also an interesting book on Latin slap bass.

No - I think you are wrong on both counts!

So the question is actually :..what makes Latin, well, "Latin." ? Or as per the title - "What defines Latin Music?"

I quoted the original question which was primarily about "Latin Jazz", you must have missed that. My bad...NOT!


Tango and Merengue are Latin styles of music - end of story - if you are trying to define what makes Latin - then you can't just ignore whole swathes of it, to suit yourself! :hmm:

The OP is interested in Latin Jazz, not everything Latin, he didn't ask about bachatas or boleros.


Secondly I would certainly disgaree that Latin Jazz is primarily Afro- Cuban - most people I know when asked about Latin Jazz start playing a Bossa Nova or Samba rhythm, which is definitely Brazilian in origin.

That's people that YOU know, and that's probably all that they know or are familiar with. BTW, the clave is still in there. :D


And some of the most famous Latin Jazz recordings are Brazilian fusions - like Stan Getz with Jobim/Gilberto, Chic Corea with Airto and Flora Purim on Light as a Feather etc etc

Try listening to some of the artist that I mentioned earlier. There's latin jazz and then there's LATIN JAZZ.


There are literally hundreds of Brazilian Bossas which are now Jazz standards and can be heard from just about every big-name Jazz artist!

There are also many Jazz Sambas - written by artists like Jim Hall - who has also absorbed Spanish music into Jazz -which might be yet another Latin influence!


And your point here is what?


Afro Cuban is definitely an influence on some artists like Coltrane and Dizzy - but in the last 50 years of Jazz I'd say there's far more diverse influences that can be classed a "Latin"!

You're still stuck in the realm of Jazz artists that have Latin influence. What about the Latin Artists that the influence came from i.e. the source?

I quoted the original question which was primarily about "Latin Jazz", The OP is interested in Latin Jazz....The OP is interested in Latin Jazz, not everything Latin, he didn't ask about bachatas or boleros.


You're still stuck in the realm of Jazz artists that have Latin influence. What about the Latin Artists that the influence came from i.e. the source?

I think you just disappeared up your own ass!! :p

I think you just disappeared up your own ass!! :p

Personal attacks do not advance your irrelevant point.

Nothing personal - it was a comment about the circuitous logic of that reply!! :p

The Latin Bass Book by Oscar Stagnaro, may be a good start at defining it. I just started work in it this morning.

Well this topic sure brought some interesting replies. Yeah, what I'm playing is latin-influenced jazz but listening to actual latin music helps as well. I'm just trying to absorb as much of it as I can.

All the suggestions on books and artists really helped though and please, continue your debates. :D

The Latin Bass Book by Oscar Stagnaro, may be a good start at defining it. .

Yes this is a very good book, which I've had for a few years now - Oscar Stagnaro actually bothers to identify all the different styles of Latin music and lay out the differences between them, as related to bass lines! :)

So - he starts with the Tumbao and Clave, but goes on to look at ChaChaCha, Afro 6/8,Samba, Partido Alto,Baiao, Merengue and even Reggae!

Good written examples of all and CDs!

Almost certainly the most comprehensive guide! :)