Every time i go to youtube.com to check some bass stuff; like 90 percent of videos i come across with are from people playing ear aching solos either with the mid knob all cranked up and/or some sort of of cheap sounding distortion. What is worse is the comments that people leaves to those guys praising them for their "amazing bass playing".
My question is: Are any of those guys really able to lay down a real grove?? I mean what the hell was wrong with the main porpouse of the bass as a supportive instrument???. It seems like nowdays bass players are more obssesed about guys like Wooten or Jaco than players like Jamerson or Louis Johnson.
The sad thing about it is that even manufacturers are jumping on this wagon offering basses that offer almost no low end but pure midrange. Everytime I pick up a music catalog the phrase i found the most is "cutting throught the mix". how about the low end??.
Now speaking of high rated bass players:

Tim Commerford: Great skills, but his tone OMG:hmm: . I pick up the last RATM album. The live concert. Some of you guys may have it. My poor ears blood stained my headphones after an hour of listening. Is that a bass?? It sounds so hight pitch sounding that doesnt fill the music nor holds the band. Is just this farty sounding jazz bass that sounds like a horn instrument played throught a broken amp.

Cliff Burton: A guitarist on bass. I dont understand the whole hype about this guy. Just because he could play a million notes per minute doesnt mean he was one of the greatest. His tone was horrible and just thinking about all those guys around the planet trying to emulate that noise just makes my head spin. i wish I could get a penny every time i came across a Anasthesia pulling teeth video. i'd be able to to buy sex from Jenna Jameson. And lets face it, Metallica were a gifted band from the beginning but the overall sound from the band was really crappy before hiring Jason

Jaco Pastorious: zzzzzzzzzzzz......... OOps sorry i fall asleep listening to that music box. .......OH was it a bass???!!

Maybe I'm going to get flamed its just my opinion.

The only thing I can really think of to say is to stop worrying about who everyone else is listening to, and stop worrying what everyone else is playing. Just listen to the stuff you like. What did you expect for an answer?

you got a point but theres still alot of people out there who dont cut through the mix as much you should lay off the youtube

I don't know, to me, music is all about love and self expression. All this negitivity about how you think people should play and sound is just silly. Play with your heart, and listen with your heart, and you will learn alot.

you should lay off the youtube

+1! But a byproduct of YouTube videos is the terrible audio compression that loses all the bass anyway, not to mention the fact that they're recording the videos on a digital camera which will only have a microphone built in as an afterthought. There are still plenty of bassists out there who like to shake the room!

Also it was a mistake to pick up the last Rage album. The first one was good but each one got progressively worse. Battle of Los Angeles is borderline and anything afterwards is unlistenable, IMO.

Also it was a mistake to pick up the last Rage album. The first one was good but each one got progressively worse. Battle of Los Angeles is borderline and anything afterwards is unlistenable, IMO.

"Renegades" is dope! I love hearing them cover the songs that got them rocking in the first place!

Dude. If you haven't already been flamed, you truly deserve it, but im not the kind of person or in the kind of mood to be a real you know what

Tim Commerford does not have anything close to a hi-fi or high end sound from all the rage albums ive heard.

Louis Johnson is more of a slap fiend than most the people on you tube, why do you think they call him thunder thumb?

Vic and Jaco are truly innovators and invented some of the most copped and immitated techniques out there, heck jaco is the only one person to truly define a style, whether you dont have the attention span or dont like jazz to listen to him, thats fact. Nobody picks up a bass and says can i get that steve bailey or michael manring tone out of this? sorry steve and michael, you guys are some of the most talented guys out there and manring is another innovator, but it all came from Jaco. you ever used harmonics? OH and can they lay down a groove? you havent heard come on come over or barbary coast apparently, and you cant hold no groove, more love, bass tribute or victa, or his stuff by bela fleck if you dont think he can hold down a groove, look past the flashy stuff for once

anyways i do think the world has gone downhill as far as bass goes, but you picked all the wrong guys except Cliff. All the poppy-emo-pop rock stuff is just terrible. disco was way better and so was grunge. at least grunge was a real feeling and disco is musical. and death metal is the worst.

So post some of your wonderful and amazing grooves...

Maybe I'm going to get flamed its just my opinion.

I hear you on some points... part of the reason I went back to tubes and 18" speakers. But at the same time that I keep a fretted 5 strung with flats, I also play a 7 string through an effects pedal board. I can lay down... but as much as I love guitar, my lead voice is the bass.

Not this topic again ... Come on it all depends on the context you're playing if I'm playing a sabbath song or a deep purple song I'm not going to groove. But if I play a song of Los fabulosos cadillacs or a reggae tune well I will have to groove.

Besides who wants to see a guy on youtube playing boring 8th notes ? They are necessary if your playing a pop tune, but by yourself ?

Where did you read that bass is only a supportive instrument? Does your bass come with a little tag that says "you must not play above the 5th fret" ? Electric bass is a new instrument and its up to us the bass players to decide its place in music.

[Mod Edit]I'm not retitling this thread... seriously. If you can't handle the opinions, go elsewhere.
[/Mod Edit]



seriously..

Not this topic again ... Come on it all depends on the context you're playing if I'm playing a sabbath song or a deep purple song I'm not going to groove.

Geezer and Roger Glover definitely have groove.

my Boss BassSynth is what went wrong with my bass in this track :smug:

motion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTzC0Vrb258)

:bassist:

Geezer and Roger Glover definitely have groove.

Just what I was going to post. If I heard Electric Funeral played in a non-groovy way, I'd head for the door in a hurry.

We all have different opinions on what groove is. To me NIB grooves but paranoid doesn't. However the point of my post wasn't to discuss what groove is and what is not. It was to point out that there are no rules to bass playing.And we should not limit ourselves.

it isn't a what, it's a who
and i'll tell you exactly who ruined it
it was joe
JOE MOMMA!

I always liked Timmy C.'s tone(never heard their live albums, though), but i agree with you on bass players not having a lot of bottom anymore.

but whatever fits your style of music or your personal preference is entirely up to you and you shouldn't criticize others for what they like.

how about the low end??

I agree with you on this part. Bass is supposed to lay down the bottom end, not trying to cut through the walls of guitar and end up being some random burping sound.

But wouldn't it be nice if you could BOTH be bassy AND cut through? Yes, ask around TB.


Cliff Burton: A guitarist on bass. I dont understand the whole hype about this guy. Just because he could play a million notes per minute doesnt mean he was one of the greatest. His tone was horrible and just thinking about all those guys around the planet trying to emulate that noise just makes my head spin. i wish I could get a penny every time i came across a Anasthesia pulling teeth video. i'd be able to to buy sex from Jenna Jameson. And lets face it, Metallica were a gifted band from the beginning but the overall sound from the band was really crappy before hiring Jason

Well, many people including myself like the first 3 albums best.
Cliff thought Metallica more about music and brought a whole new influence to the songs. Maybe you're right about the bass not being too strong.
(Although Cliff is VERY talented)
But then, if you say that Jason sounds bassy, remember, he does heavy downstrokes. Not exactly the bassiest (Is this even a word?) sound in the world ;)


Jaco Pastorious: zzzzzzzzzzzz......... OOps sorry i fall asleep listening to that music box. .......OH was it a bass???!!
Well, that guy could make a bass SING. Well, yea, his purpose of bass is to be the lead instrument, not just the low end. Then again, remember, he is a solo artist. So yea, he innovated the way of playing bass. Like 'em or Hate 'em is all up to you.


Maybe I'm going to get flamed its just my opinion.

Well, it's time for we internet users to learn and keep our cool and look things in a whole new prespective.

valid points.

consider yourself seconded.

And lets face it, Metallica were a gifted band from the beginning but the overall sound from the band was really crappy before hiring Jason

Actually, the more correct statement would be that their sound wasn't as radio friendly until they hired Bob Rock to produce their albums starting with the black album. In their first original album with Jason, ...And Justice for All, James and Lars had the bass mixed so low that it was barely audible.

IMO their first three albums were their best.

Gee, is that a troll or what ?
If you look for bass stuff on YouTube you get bass stuff. Don't come complaining.
To get bass players doing their job, look for music.

IMO their first three albums were their best.

+1

I think Cliff wasn't anything that special as a bassist, but he wrote (or at least co-wrote) pretty much every single one of my favourite Metallica songs.

The thing that went wrong with the bass was the need to define a role for it. The whole "lead bass"/"holding the low end" is just plain stupid. Shut up and go play music.

I don't think anything went wrong with bass itself - it's just a different (albeit not to your liking) approach of people who probably don't play in a band/ensemble.

Most likely all they do is solo in their bedroom, although I myself can't be bothered to watch something like that - if I want to see a hack soloing I can look in the mirror. :)

That said, I think the youtube artists aren't anywhere near being representative of bass playing as a whole, so let's not cry 'doomsday'....yet.... :)

the best working bass players don't have the time or the desire to post homemade videos of themselves covering other people's music.
So don't worry about what you see on youtube.

Modern basses tend to be more mid oriented do the the fact that they have to compete with a mic'd up drum kit in the FOH. Old school bass tones just get swallowed up by the drums. However, these same old schools tones blend perfectly with an acoustic kit. Victor, Jaco, Budda etc. are electric bass virtuoso's. I view them as people who have take the instrument to its' extreem limits. If you don't enjoy them then there is nothing anyone is going to write that will change your mind. However, I think you should learn to appriciate them for their contributions.

The "high quality" microphones found in cell phones /digicams / webcams that are the source of them don't help. As does the audio compression codec. I usually forgive a lot of what are likely problems related to that and focus on the bad playing. I love watching bad solos and stuff. Makes me feel better. Someday maybe I'll put some of my un-bad pieces up.

and don't forget, any bass solo that is posted will have the following comments, repeated 70,000 times: "Bah, Wooten is better", "Bah, Jaco is better", "Bah, Claypool is better".

We all have different opinions on what groove is. To me NIB grooves but paranoid doesn't.

Sabbath are more groove-based than most people think. They were heavily influenced by American jazz and blues.
I even think Paranoid grooves. Bill Ward plays "straight" 8ths like most English rock drummers, with a hint of swing. Don't believe me? A/B the original with the totally non-grooving Megadeth version.

However the point of my post wasn't to discuss what groove is and what is not. It was to point out that there are no rules to bass playing.And we should not limit ourselves.

How "Rock 'n' Roll."

Every time i go to youtube.com to check some bass stuff;...

There's your problem right there--forming opinions about the "state of bass" from what you see searching youtube.com...

I like playing the supporting role. but dude your way off with some stuff. First of all Wooten can hold a groove he is friggin amazing period and he would destroy you on stage without even trying. Im not a huge Jaco fan, but I appreciate what he stood for as musician Jaco did more for e the bass guitar than anyone else. I agree with you about cliff burton. I hate metallica with a burning passion. My favorite bass player=Lemmy Kilmister.

It's really hard to take anyone with a handle like fe11atio seriously. It's not a great indicator of maturity or good taste.:scowl:

if you think jaco is boring you dont listen to the right stuff. besides, it was his life, personality, and humor that generally make us jaco fans crazy about him. check out some live jaco improv, its godly.

How "Rock 'n' Roll."[/QUOTE]

Rock on amigo :bassist:

Ahmen dude im glad im not the only one that wonders what has happened to the nice deep low sound of a bass....

jaco and all those people have turned bass into a lead instrument...dont get me wrong they are great basses but i do miss the sound of a nice low deep growl in the backgrounnd

if people spent less time worrying about all this, arguing about this tone, this best, this worst...

damn, there would be some awesome bassists out there..

or at least less whiny arguments.

haha.... gotta love forums. where people get really pissed off for no reason.

Actually, i hated Jaco for a long time, until i for some reason bought Weather Reports "Heavy Weather", they guy actually can make nice music, but his solo stuff i will never listen to again.

Anyway, i think people should be allowed to do what they want on their instrument, if you want to play straight 8th root notes, or blaze through 64th notes, that should be your choice.

At once you pick up something, the freedom is yours to choose.

i think that Bass is just fine. Bass is an INSTRUMENT! you play MUSIC on a Bass. Music is how you express yourself. if someone doesnt like it, SO WHAT?

Whatever blows your skirt up.

Dramatized response follows
"Who would even want to play a bass without distortion. Why would you ever want a clean tone. I got this James Brown album and the bassist had NO distortion. That means weak to my ears. He didn't hold on to steady 8th notes for longer than 3seconds I don;t even know if he did at all. I mean look at Queeds of the stone age, 8th notes on the same note the whole song... now that is bass playing."

Just joshin ya mate. I like distorded riff bass playing. Repedative .. that to me is part of grooving. What is grooving... you may not care... but I feel like ranting. you wear a groove into the motions of people moving to the music, wear a groove in the music. Just like a tire in the mud ... it's in the groove, no matter what way the song turns its still in the groove.

But that is how I like bass. Other people may hate that and never listen to it. That is why you can decide not to listen to Billy sheehan on youtube, instead listen to Jamerson.

One more opinion... listeneing to solo bass is annoying as hell unless the sound and I are highly effected.
Jonathan

if people spent less time worrying about all this, arguing about this tone, this best, this worst...

damn, there would be some awesome bassists out there..

or at least less whiny arguments.

haha.... gotta love forums. where people get really pissed off for no reason.

Good point, back to practice it is.

Bass - it's all about "plug in and groove". We don't need to be the flash guy playing a million notes a minute - all we need it a groove and getting "in the pocket" - is there any better feeling in the world?

I have been playing for over 25 years now (where has the time gone) and I have NEVER been bored with being a bass player! I have had numerous ups and downs in my life, and the bass has always been constant - it just takes me to somewhere I feel "at home" whenever I play.

^Ofcourse it do, it does the same wth everyone. (most people anyway..) it just that what does that with different people on the same instrument, is different from person to person. I get that feeling going the Entwistle way of things. i love hearing a "bliribidibip" on places it might fit in for instance.

I would have to agree with fe11atio. The whole reason I turned to bass when all my friends were obsessed with guitar was the bottom end. That low-down growl. It just ooooooozed power.
I play a 5 string and play predominatly the B and E strings, with a bit of A thrown in. Sure I use D and G through alot of runs and stuff. But for me, bass is supposed to be low.
But, I also agree, each to his own. I can't deny the obvious 'wow' factor of players like Wooten, Flea and Claypool.
And to further agree, Kill 'Em All, ...Lightning and Master were the definitive Metallica albums. R.I.P Cliff!!

+1! But a byproduct of YouTube videos is the terrible audio compression that loses all the bass anyway, not to mention the fact that they're recording the videos on a digital camera which will only have a microphone built in as an afterthought. There are still plenty of bassists out there who like to shake the room!

Also it was a mistake to pick up the last Rage album. The first one was good but each one got progressively worse. Battle of Los Angeles is borderline and anything afterwards is unlistenable, IMO.

It isn't really youtube that filters out the low end

It is just the crappy cameras they use.

i'd be able to to buy sex from Jenna Jameson.

you should work on getting sex without paying for it.

you should work on getting sex without paying for it.

Hahahahaha

When I starte playing back in the late 80's the rage was funk slap or million notes a minute(I guess bassists were just trying to compete with all the shred heads)I made a conscious effort not to get sucked into what I saw as trendy.I started with groove players like Cliff Williams and Andy Fraser the progressed to more riff oriented players like Geezer.As my playing got a tiny bit better I branched out into other styles.After all thats said and done I still love to play grooves.

This thread is ass.