I was reading a history of the Stooges the other day and I read, "James Williamson took over guitar duties and Ron Ashton was demoted to bass."

Poor choice of words IMO. Anyone else put off by this?

He was first the guitarist in The Stooges, and an equal member in terms of his contributions. The original bassist Dave Alexander was an equal member in the band, but when Williamson came on board it was a completely different dynamic, and one in which Asheton had a diminished creative role as the bassist. I question the wording for a different reason, that is the flawed history- he was actually not demoted, he left the band and was later invited back in specifically to play bass in the New Stooges.

In a way it could be seen as a demotion, he felt he wasn't able to contribute as much, and having done so much as their guitarist it is kind of a slap in the face; I do believe Asheton wasn't delighted with playing bass.

However, I think he made a far better bassist than guitarist and Raw Power may be the best album ever. Demotion? Arguably, but it enriched the world of music regardless/

Demoted...

Yeah, sounds like a punishment almost. Probably the writer thinks like a lot of people - bass is where all the non-talented guitarists end up.

Whatever. Let them listen to music with no bottom, see how they like that.

I guess Ashton knew what Chris Dreja felt like then.

Most people around here think that's what bass is. Shame really, but all they do is throw the guitars around on stage and dance like idiots

I'd say being a bassist is about the same as a guitarist, they both have equally important duties.

I guess Ashton knew what Chris Dreja felt like then.

Dreja was a class act, IMO. I don't think he put up much squabble switching to bass so Page and Beck could do their dual guitar thing.

Some may not know that Chris Dreja took the back cover photo on the first Led Zeppelin record. I believe Dreja may have been hoping to become Led Zeppelin's bassist after the demise of the Yardbirds, but then JPJ came along (they did start as the New Yardbirds before they changed the name to Zeppelin). Evidently, there were no hard feelings.

Oh noes! My feelings!!

http://www.thesunblog.com/sports/archives/very_sad_face.gif

In that style of music - yes - guitar to bass is a demotion.

Don't you know the pecking order? Lead singers, lead guitarists, drummers, bassists, road crew.

FWIW - I was "demoted" to bass from guitar as a teen-ager in order to play in a band with my friends.

the guitar player WAS actually better at guitar than me - so I guess I deserved it. :smug:

HI

The Stooges. LOL. Enough said

Rob

In that style of music - yes - guitar to bass is a demotion.

Don't you know the pecking order? Lead singers, lead guitarists, drummers, bassists, road crew.

FWIW - I was "demoted" to bass from guitar as a teen-ager in order to play in a band with my friends.

the guitar player WAS actually better at guitar than me - so I guess I deserved it. :smug:

so in your opinion Guitar > Bass?
i see it all as equal

I do think punk guitar vs. punk bass as funny. A punk guitarist plays exactly what a punk bassist does half the time, except they play the 5th as well as root notes. Not that much harder.

The stooges were a bit more than that, but "complex" is not how I'd describe their music.


Jeff was discussing genres: In some genres, the bass is the pivotal instrument, and is more complex than guitar, but in other settings, yes, the bass is easier than the guitar. Does it make it any more/less important? Probably not.

I swear, bassists must be the most insecure people on earth, it's like you just wait for someone to bash the bass so you can cry about it. :rolleyes:

so in your opinion Guitar > Bass?
i see it all as equal

they're only "equal" absent context (as matt just tried to explain)

once you get into specifc circumstances - roles change.

The bass and guitar parts on Raw Power are definitely complementary, and yes, I would use the word complex to describe the album. But as some people have said, Williamson enjoyed the position of prominence in that lineup compared to Asheton. No need to get your feelings hurt by the use of "demoted".

demoted... :D
punished
damned
Thou shall play bass for the eternity muahhahaha

Some good posts here but I'm still put off by the D-word -- especially if you're a bassist by choice.

BTW Sneckumhaw, your point IS well taken. The antiseptic sting of Williamson's LP during the solo at the end of "Search and Destroy" gives me goose bumps like nothing Ashton ever did.

I started as a guitarist, but "demoted" myself to bass. Curiously enough, I still view myself as a guitar player - I just happen to play a bass guitar. Now the rub: I often play ERBs, and as you know, some ERBs cover the guitar range, and some even go higher, with high strings as thin as .004

Now, when you consider that an ERB "bass guitar" of that nature not only covers the regular guitar range, but goes considerably lower, then you can't really call it a demotion, can you? It's guitar, and MORE.

Now, I no longer consider it a demotion. I now actually consider it covering ALL THINGS GUITAR.

Honestly, shouldn't this inspire you somewhat? This little demotion jab?

The reason people assume bassists are guitarists who can't cut it is because a lot of time, it's true. Because a lot of the time, bass is super easy.

Make it a goal to change a few minds, I'm not saying become the worlds flashiest bassist, but just show occasionally that we can play more than root notes. I don't know, I take a small amount of pride knowing that I've shown a couple of people the other side of bass, some people have become bassists because of me :eek: It's kind of scary writing that, I've never thought about it.

I was jamming with a drummer once and a guy randomly wandered in, he was talking with the drummer who he was friends with, said something about how I could make the bass sound like an entire song.

In reality, I'm not that great, but a lot of bassists people are exposed to don't play very "flashy." It was just a loose jam, nothing I'd turn into a song, but with guitar... it's like it's all been done, it's over exposed. Bass at this point almost feels like a new instrument. It's starting to be taken a lot more serious than it did. I was going to try to avoid dropping the name Jaco, but... you get the point. If you break it down, his self titled release didn't come out that long ago.

If people think less of you because your a bassist, **** 'em. Or, make it a point to show that the bass is a monster that often hides in the shadows, but when crawls out, it will more than likely eat your soul.

I don't know, cheesy, but you get it... right?

Who else was "demoted" to bass?

Geddy Lee.

Yeah..

This thread = LOL :D

HI

The Stooges. LOL. Enough said

Rob
Now THAT is pretty funny. :D

To the OP - who wrote that, anyway?

Most people around here think that's what bass is. Shame really, but all they do is throw the guitars around on stage and dance like idiots

I'd say being a bassist is about the same as a guitarist, they both have equally important duties.

yeah same here in el paso man...and the worst thing about this place is its mostly mindless hardcore/grindcore...a recent band i was in (but left due to a feud with the guitarist and drummer) for the most part believed the guitarist should have all the creative say (except for the singer who suprisingly pointed out a few times he'd be more worried about losing the bassist seeing as how we're harder to find...IE Real bassists...not "demoted" bassists")

seriously though bass is equal to guitar...it just depends on who's playing either instrument

look at guys like Flea, les Claypool, Cliff Burton, Stuart Hamm, and Vic Wooten...all those listed could easily shown up 98% of the guitarists around.

Paul McCartney was "demoted" to bass according to an interview I read in Bass Player years ago. He said that back then the bassist was considered the ugly, fat guy in the back, so it was quite an insult but he eventually became quite proud of his position.

Sounds rude to me....

I concur with some of the other guys, people feel like bass is for the untalented guitarist. Thank God for good bassists bringing in techniques like slapping and popping into different forms of music besides funk and jazz (i.e. - Les Claypool, Flea, and Ryan Martinie...probably others i missed but you get the point)

Lol @ Thunder_Finger's geddy lee comment =)

HI

The Stooges. LOL. Enough said

Rob

Yeah, that's some good snobbery right there.

This reminds me of a series of conversations I once had with another student guitarist living near to me. He was classically trained on accoustic guitar and was very suprised to see me one day with a bass.
His basic arguments for the guitar were usually one of the following-
"Bass only has four strings, it's really easy"
"You can't play guitar, that's why you play bass"
"All bassists do is stand at the back and pluck strings"
"I play four notes at once......that's harder than your bass lines"
"There aren't any really famous bassists, you get famous playing guitar"
"You don't make money with bass"
He was a typical guitard and wouldn't listen to me.

meh everyone can have whatever negative impressions they want about bass.

less interest in the instrument = less people wanting to play bass = more jobs for me.

This reminds me of a series of conversations I once had with another student guitarist living near to me. He was classically trained on accoustic guitar and was very suprised to see me one day with a bass.
His basic arguments for the guitar were usually one of the following-
"Bass only has four strings, it's really easy"
"You can't play guitar, that's why you play bass"
"All bassists do is stand at the back and pluck strings"
"I play four notes at once......that's harder than your bass lines"
"There aren't any really famous bassists, you get famous playing guitar"
"You don't make money with bass"
He was a typical guitard and wouldn't listen to me.

Omg, you must've gone mad. All of those arguments are so easy to rebuff...

"Harps must be the hardest instrument EVER, LOLROFLZ"
"Pianists play up to 10 notes at once"
"Session bassists can make a lot of money since bassists are in demand"

And maybe start humming the bassline to Another One Bites the Dust by Queen :)

Guitar to bass still sounds like a promotion to me. Although in some cases people are promoted to a position where they can do the least amount of damage.