Hi Folks,

I've been playing bass for 2 decades and have finally decided to play fretless exclusively. I've heard all the Jaco I can hear over the years and am looking for others to inspire me. Besides the more obvious ones (Jaco, Pino, Mick Karn, and Percy Jones), which specific records have what you would consider great fretless bass playing, regardless of genre?

I've recently been playing along to and transcribing Patrick O'Hearn's fretless basslines on Frank Zappa's Live In New York cd and they are quite impressive, so that's my record of the moment which has the great playing I'm talking about. What are your picks?

ALAIN CARON!!!!!

Look for the album "Caron, Eckay, Lockwood" He is one of the best, if not the best IMHO. He used to play for Uzeb. He is also a rediculous slapper.

www.alaincaron.com

And he's from Montreal, and he's french!!!!

Go listen to a bunch of Jimmy Haslip with Yellowjackets. Not all of his stuff is fretless, but a lot of it is.

Check out Mark Egan too (early Pat Metheny, Elements).

Beyond that, I'd respectfully suggest that you avoid the trap of listening only, or even mainly, to fretless players. Fretless bass versus fretted bass is MUCH less important than good bass playing versus mediocre bass playing. Listen to good or great bass players, regardless of whether they have "speedbumps." Listen to upright players, and tuba players too.

It's only one man's opinion (i.e., mine) ... but I've noticed over the years that bass players who get too focused on playing fretless, as opposed to playing bass, or, better, playing music, can SOMETIMES tend to fall prey to what I might call "fretlessism," the main symptom of which is overuse of fretless mannerisms (e.g., excessive mwah on every single note, sliding all over the place, etc.). Few things are more musically irritating, to me anyway. IT'S LIKE TYPING IN ALL CAPS.

I'm by NO means saying this is you--how could I?--I'm just saying don't restrict your horizons too much. (This is a little bit of personal experience talking, too, FWIW. I had my own, mercifully brief, "Jaco clone" period, and I cringe to hear some of the stuff I did back in the day.)

Graceland - By PAul Simon has some nice fretless by Bakithi Khumalo

Graceland - By PAul Simon has some nice fretless by Bakithi Khumalo

There are some amazing lines on that album. Really interesting grooves and even some fretless slapping!

Christian McBride has a great fretless sound!!!

Franc O'Shea's "Alkimia" is some of the best and most innovative fretless playing I've heard in a long time.


Christian McBride has a great fretless sound!!!

I love McBride's fretless tone- I like him on fretless just as much if not more than on upright.

:cool:
Mick Karn
Percy Jones
Richard Bona
Jonas Hellborg
Pino Palladino

Go listen to a bunch of Jimmy Haslip with Yellowjackets. Not all of his stuff is fretless, but a lot of it is.

Check out Mark Egan too (early Pat Metheny, Elements).

Beyond that, I'd respectfully suggest that you avoid the trap of listening only, or even mainly, to fretless players. Fretless bass versus fretted bass is MUCH less important than good bass playing versus mediocre bass playing. Listen to good or great bass players, regardless of whether they have "speedbumps." Listen to upright players, and tuba players too.

It's only one man's opinion (i.e., mine) ... but I've noticed over the years that bass players who get too focused on playing fretless, as opposed to playing bass, or, better, playing music, can SOMETIMES tend to fall prey to what I might call "fretlessism," the main symptom of which is overuse of fretless mannerisms (e.g., excessive mwah on every single note, sliding all over the place, etc.). Few things are more musically irritating, to me anyway. IT'S LIKE TYPING IN ALL CAPS.

I'm by NO means saying this is you--how could I?--I'm just saying don't restrict your horizons too much. (This is a little bit of personal experience talking, too, FWIW. I had my own, mercifully brief, "Jaco clone" period, and I cringe to hear some of the stuff I did back in the day.)

Oh I hear you on the "fretlessism" thing. I'm not a fan of players who make it a point to always do the slides, etc. I'm most impressed by players who kinda make it seem like they're playing fretted, then boom, you realize they're playing fretless. I'm more in to the earthy tone and freedom of a fretless than anything else.
Regarding Mark Egan, I almost forgot about him so thanks for the info. He's a monster for sure. And since you mentioned tuba, any tuba recordings you'd recommend?

Christian McBride has a great fretless sound!!!


Any specific recordings where I can hear his best fretless playing? I only know him as an upright player. Thanks.

Forgive my ignorance, isn't he an upright player?

Yes but he also plays electric fretted and fretless. He is a monster on the electrics, a double monster on the upright.

Steve Bailey!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WynyclRao34&mode=related&search=

And since you mentioned tuba, any tuba recordings you'd recommend?

Well, I was partly joking, but mostly serious. I'm not a tuba expert, exactly, but I've heard some hip things. You might check out the Dirty Dozen Brass Band, for starters. Howard Johnson used to have an occasional brass band called Gravity that I saw a couple of times and dug. I used to really like Arthur Blythe's band that had Bob Stewart on tuba (along with Bobby Battle on drums, Abdul Wadud on cello, and Kelvyn Bell on guitar). And there's a guy I've heard once or twice named Marcus Rojas who I thoguht was pretty good.

Some great fusion & pop players listed here...

One player whom I've come to appreciate a lot, who plays predominantly in a rock context, is Colin Edward of Porcupine Tree. Using his fretless Wal, he generates these huge, massive, thundering grooves...that are often quite nicely slippery - in the best fretless sense of the term...

MM

Bill Laswell gets an enormous sound out of his fretless Precision bass. At least in recent years he's kind of the polar opposite of Jaco, focusing on hypnotic, repetitive, mantra-like lines. Gigi's "Illuminated Audio" and the Laswell/Jah Wobble collab "RadioAxiom: Bass-The Final Frontier" have some great examples of his ambient dub stylings.

Ralphe Armstrong's fretless work is also amazing--check out Eddie Harris' "Eddie Who" for outstanding straightahead jazz, or Jean-Luc Ponty's "Enigmatic Ocean" for more adventurous fusion.

You might check out the Dirty Dozen Brass Band, for starters. Howard Johnson used to have an occasional brass band called Gravity that I saw a couple of times and dug.

+1 on both of those (should that be +2?). Johnson was in Jack DeJohnette's band for a while too. It was a cool double whammy, with Rufus Reid on bass. I can't vouch for the recordings, but the live show was smokin'.

+2 on the Steve Bailey...+1 on the Frank Zappa Performance..
I don't know the particular recordings but Les Claypool uses a 6 string fretless effectively...
Oh, and don't forget about just listening to upright guys. There's no problem with that. I listen to a good bit of Duke Ellington, Miles, and Ron Carter's stuff. I like the freedom of the fretless too, I find the frets to be harder to play...but I'm weird.

Um some of the greatest fretless is upright in witch case Charlie Haden, Dave Holland and Larry Grenadier when he played with pat metheny

Kai Eckhardt has been known to do some pretty impressive things both with and without frets. I am a fan of the things he did with John McLaughlin.

And since you mentioned tuba, any tuba recordings you'd recommend?

Howard Johnson used to have an occasional brass band called Gravity...I used to really like Arthur Blythe's band that had Bob Stewart on tuba...


One of my FAVORITE Taj Mahal LP's features a QUARTET of tubas!! Included are Howard Johnson AND Bob Stewart . . .

1971 "The Real Thing"

Any specific recordings where I can hear his best fretless playing? I only know him as an upright player. Thanks.


Live at Tonic
Vertical Vision

Gary Wilis is my favourite.
percy jones is fantastic too, tony levin also plays some very nice fretless bass.

+1 on the Gary Wills - not a huge Tribal Tech fan but I have one album that has some wonderful work on it. Tony Levin is quite good and let's not forget Vic Wooten either. Some other people to check out - Jeff Ament, a lot of "Ten" was fretless, Matt Malley (Counting Crows) played a lot of fretless and Tony Franklin (The Firm, Blue Murder) played some amazing parts in some rather crappy 80's metal/rock.

Steve Digiorgio from the album"individual thought patterns" by "death". But almost all of his work has impressed me (when his bass is mixed loud enough...)

Steve Bailey with Victor Wooten (Bass Extremes Live) playing a Chick From Corea...simply beautiful!

Don't know if it's been mentioned but Pink Floyd's "Hey You" off "the Wall" is a good song to listen to. Guy Pratt's playing on "On The Turning Away" off "Delicate Sound Of Thunder" is nice too. No monstrous chops on either song but there are some subtle nuances that just stand out to me. Tony Levin recorded the latter for the studio version but I think the live version is nicer.

Great playing sans frets? Edgar Meyer.

Max

There is a band called "Gypsy Soul" with a great fretless player. Look for the track "WHO" most notably. Micheal Manring is also worth checking out.

Great playing sans frets? Edgar Meyer.

Max

Fair point. In that vein, check out Renaud Garcia-Fons:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=346421

havent read all through but...

manring!

Check out Kristoffer Gildenlöw of Pain of Salvation. Sadly not a member of the band anymore, but his fretless playing on The Perfect Element pt. 1 is still up there for me.

How about Pino on Paul Young's I'm gonna tear your playhouse down (http://youtube.com/watch?v=rbvLPG3ZJjA)

How about Pino on Paul Young's I'm gonna tear your playhouse down (http://youtube.com/watch?v=rbvLPG3ZJjA)


Man I played that record to death when it came out. It's one of those records that took my playing to the next level.

Ever hear his solo on that David Gilmour tune, the name which escapes me at the moment?

Any specific recordings where I can hear his best fretless playing? I only know him as an upright player. Thanks.


Check out this video of Cristian playing his fretless Pensa with Pat Metheny. Very cool solo! Killer tone and groove!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfPZX1feP8w


Cheers,
Kevin

Micheal Manring is also worth checking out.

I can't believe this is the only mention of Manring on this thread so far. He is also more than worth checking out.

I can't beleive it took 22 posts for someone to mention Gary Willis.

I recommend his solo recording "Bent". It's one of the most accessible of his recordings, though it has at least three songs in 6/4, which to me represents a strange obsession.

Some of the early Tribal Tech stuff is good in a chops-fest fusion kind of way, but by the mid 90s they were using a very open, out-there compositional style that sometimes failed to lead anywhere. Sometimes it did, though, and is still cool.

I also like some of the work he has done in guest roles, like the two tunes he played on Dennis Chambers' "Outbreak" CD.

Check out some Willis!

Also +1 on the Kai Eckhardt recommendation. I have a nice meditative CD called "Sky" from Bill Douglas that has some tasty Kai fretless work on it.

Michael Manring is the bomb - jaw droppingly good. But I get the feeling that he is playing to the world of bass players and nobody else. For whatever that is worth.

Marcus Miller is not primarily known as a fretless player, however all of his solo CDs have some nice fretless work on them. "The Sun Don't Lie", is my favorite, and the title track is a great fretless blow.

Jeff schmidt!

Primus - Tommy the cat (studio version)
Primus - Mary the ice cube.

Listen to this....opening and unison at end are fantastic!
http://laurencecottle.com/listen/LC_BigBand-IGotRidovEm.mp3

Ever hear his solo on that David Gilmour tune, the name which escapes me at the moment?"Murder" off of the "About Face" album?

Edit: I found it on YouTube with Mickey Feat (1984 tour bassist) playing it on his fretless Wal.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tnutlUJ9SqY

I saw this tour and was elated by the fact that Mickey Feat played Wal basses, because I had just received my (first) fretless Wal a few months before I saw the show.


No one has mentioned Bunny Brunel.

+1 for Jeff Ament!

Lot of great players have been mentioned, but I have to give mention to Victor Wooten. I think I'd rather hear him on fretless than fretted because he cuts back on the fireworks. Check out this clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv3OEnpgtOE). I especially love the "Continuum" quote after the bass and sax Q&A.

Anything by Alain Caron on his Fretless 6 string F bass. UZEB or solo, by far a GREAT fretless player! +1

Some folks not mentioned:

Trip Wamsley - www.twbass.com - insane. melodic. wonderful

Blue Murder & The Firm - yes, older - but holds up. That's Tony Franklin.

Al Garcia - multi instrumentalist - but great fretless tones.

Dennis Michaels - amazing player - nice guy. www.Dennis Michaels.com - has some great youtube vids as well.

Victor and Alain are amazing on both fretless and fretted basses!

Gary Willis. I had the pleasure of meeting him a few times and also studying with him, and his knowledge is astounding. Listen to The Necessary Blonde (Tribal Tech), The Big Wave (Illicit), Wounded (Face First), Speak (Reality Check) and Slick (Thick). You would be hard pressed to find more inspiring examples of fretless virtuosity, as well as great composition. He is also one of the few players I have seen who can play lines that totally transcend the bass and sound like Bill Evans or Miles Davis. He is every bit as good live as on record too, and a nice, down-to-earth guy. I believe The Necessary Blonde is now viewed as a standard, and is in one volume of the New Real Book...

Here is a classic fretless performance from bassist Robert Gordan with an equally beautiful bass solo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBSFSFrVlW4&mode=related&search=

Here is a classic fretless performance from bassist Robert Gordan with an equally beautiful bass solo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBSFSFrVlW4&mode=related&search=

Thank you for this - I'm a longtime fan of Gil Scott-Heron and this brought me back to it. I may have to go album shopping later today. I love the fretless performance that is both unquestionably fretless while not hitting you over the head with it.

thanks much.

Thank you for this - I'm a longtime fan of Gil Scott-Heron and this brought me back to it. I may have to go album shopping later today. I love the fretless performance that is both unquestionably fretless while not hitting you over the head with it.

thanks much.

You're more than welcome and I thank you for appreciating Gil Scot-Heron and all the talented musicians who've worked with him over the years.

marcus miller on fretless , yes you read that correctly!! just get sun dont lie CD and you will find what i mean in there...

also, of course, manring, and willis are the ultimate best.

alain caron.... there are some others...

but im half awake and brain farting...

Fretless Bass who's:

Michael manring and Steve Lawton do great fretless stuff in a "soundscape" kind of way

Tony Franklin (again) for works with The Firm and Blue Murder

the bass player for Sade played alot of fretless. hate Sade, but loved the bass work.

Pino Pallidino played some Neo-Soul for Diangelo (sp?)

Hot Wire records Bass Talk, Vol 3. great fretless work by Various Artists. it says Basstorious (get it?) but they are original compositions, not rehashes of Jaco's stuff. Dave LaRue's track is super sweet.

BTW, www.fretlessbass.com has great photos of some fretless basses, and interveiws with players, plus, links to some you tube fretless stuff ... there's my buck three forty-eight!
:bassist:

Check out The Mars Volta. Check out "Hey You" from The Wall. They don't all have to be new age, fusion players to rule on fretless. Also, Zenyatta Mondatta or Synchronicity from the Police.

The Mars Volta was mentioned, but for fretless you'll want to keep your listening to Frances the Mute as that's the first album with Juan Alderete de la Pena (or, as you Racer X fans may remember him, John Alderete) and his excellent fretless work within a non-jazz context.

For more from Juan, check out Big Sir, his post_Pet project with Lisa Papineau.

For Christian McBride, both Live at Tonic and Vertical Vision are excellent recommendations. Also check him out on The Philadelphia Experiment with iir Caine, Pat Martino and ?estlove...some thick grooves and at least one solo that never fails to blow my mind.

the bass player for Sade played alot of fretless.

That is Paul S. Denman and he didn't play fretless on those tracks,he played a early 70's fretted Music Man stingray(usually with a little chorus added).


Pino Pallidino played some Neo-Soul for Diangelo (sp?)

Check out Pino's fretless work with singer Paul Young.

www.fretlessbassist.com has some great basses & a fretless forum.

& 1 total ad on the front page. :)

just another 2 cents ... I beleive that it was David Gilmour playing the Fretless on "Hey You" ... kind of stuck out in my mind, because it is a great line, though Guy Pratt does a great job live ...
My error on the Sade bassist ... it sounded so 'liquid' ... but, that's chorus for you ...
+1 for the fretlessbassist site ... sweet ...

just another 2 cents ... I beleive that it was David Gilmour playing the Fretless on "Hey You" ... kind of stuck out in my mind, because it is a great line, though Guy Pratt does a great job live ...
My error on the Sade bassist ... it sounded so 'liquid' ... but, that's chorus for you ...
+1 for the fretlessbassist site ... sweet ...


Yep that's correct. Dave Gilmour is the culprit on that track...and a great one it is:)