I'm not really a slap player... mainly fingerstyle, but I sometimes like to throw in little accents in the middle of a line with a slap or a pop.

When I play fingerstyle, I like to play with a very light touch and sometimes over a ramp... the problem then is that slaps and pops are often too loud, unless I concentrate really hard on slapping or popping as softly as is possible while still getting string-to-fret impact.

What have you used to get around this? Lower action? Higher action? Pick the strings harder when playing fingerstyle? Work on slapping or popping with as little force as possible? Different string gauge? Compressor?

The other complication is that it seems to be a bit different depending on which bass I'm doing it on...

Any ideas very much welcome!!

Hey, man - great question.

IMO, it's guys like Marcus Miller, Will Lee, Jimmy Haslip and Flea that really excel at switching mid-stream between fingerstyle and slap and vice-versa. Interestingly, none of those guys have what you would call the lightest fingerstyle touch. I think the key to being able to do it successfully is to physically balance out the two. I slap with a pretty light attack (IMO it's not necessary to whack or pluck the hell out of the string to get a good sound) and pluck fingerstyle with an an attack producing a volume comparable to my slap volume. The tricky part is getting a tone setting on the amp (or wherever) and developing a slap sound that has enough bottom while not not having too much while playing fingerstyle. I don't slap right over the neck like a lot do but a little bit back from the neck a la Marcus and Uncle Will (although I don't have the neck pickup cover on like those guys). There's a sweet spot there that I feel allows me to get the most bottom with the thumb.

Some years ago I shed to some of the tunes on the first Yellowjackets recording where Jimmy Haslip switched between the two very well - not just going from one section of the tune to another but in the middle of his line, which is what you're doing. Check out that recording if you can - I think there was a Bass Player Magazine article about it as well. Jimmy does have a very unorthodox approach to slap playing due to his upside down stringing but I still think there's a lot to be learned from what he did in those days, even for us more "normal" slap folks.

Another thing I do is to use my RH palm to mute when slapping. I used to practice playing some bass lines I made up using only the open strings and would put my LH down by my side while doing it. The notes in the bass line were all short/staccato so I had to use my RH palm to mute the notes right after slapping them as well as to keep all the strings from ringing. This was very helpful for my slap playing and, in general, I now use a combination of RH and LH muting when slapping. The RH muting doesn't address the volume level issue you mention but it does help assist me in going between slapping and finger style and vice-versa smoothly.

If you want to be consistent with the light-touch/ramp approach, you will have to use something to crank up/down your volume to balance out your fingerstyle and slap levels. I used to go hear Gary Willis (who's light touch is legendary 'round these parts) back in the days where he was gigging in LA with some more groove-oriented smooth jazz cats like Norman Brown. He was doing some switching up between slapping and fingerstyle with Norman (on his fretted 5 string) and using his volume pedal to make the necessary volume adjustments.

Oh yeah, I hate compressors on my bass. Even for recording.

Hope that helps!

Get a decent compressor pedal. These work by squeezing the volume of your sound to an "average" level so it evens out the natural peaks and troughs of your playing. This could help level out your volume.

I use the EBS Multicomp which I can strongly recommend, I've also heard good things about the the Demeter Compulator and if your on a budget the Aphex Punch Factory.

Hope that helps.

Slapping volume is different on different basses. For instance, on my bass I have the problem that even a relatively light fingerstyle is louder than slapping. (Warwick Corvette std passive w/Bartolini pups, ash body). My action is quite low , and I think a higher action would give a louder slap sound... so in your case, a lower action could perhaps help.

Get a decent compressor pedal. These work by squeezing the volume of your sound to an "average" level so it evens out the natural peaks and troughs of your playing. This could help level out your volume.

I use the EBS Multicomp which I can strongly recommend, I've also heard good things about the the Demeter Compulator and if your on a budget the Aphex Punch Factory.

Hope that helps.
That's what you do AFTER you learn how to control the volumes with your fingers. Never fix technique problems with equipment.

If you use fingers lightly but your slap comes out too loud in comparison, then maybe you should either beef up your finger attack or lighten the slap attack, preferably beef up the fingers because light slap sounds wussy.

This is part of the reason I'm against playing so lightly at all times. Sometimes you just have to play with some force, especially in a funk setting. The light pickers disagree with me, but one need only look to the problem you're having as a good reason to beef up your attack sometimes.

That's what you do AFTER you learn how to control the volumes with your fingers. Never fix technique problems with equipment.

If you use fingers lightly but your slap comes out too loud in comparison, then maybe you should either beef up your finger attack or lighten the slap attack, preferably beef up the fingers because light slap sounds wussy.

This is part of the reason I'm against playing so lightly at all times. Sometimes you just have to play with some force, especially in a funk setting. The light pickers disagree with me, but one need only look to the problem you're having as a good reason to beef up your attack sometimes.

or maybe he should just get a compressor...the idea that he should change a technique that is comfortable for him is garbage. That light attack plays a big part in his playing Im guessing and he could easily fix the problem with a compressor(a tool that most bassists use)

I sort of agree with JimmyM on this depending on how softly you play. I adopted a very light fingerstyle approach that caused problems when going to slap. I think my fingerstyle was too delicate, such that it made it harder for me to play softer, and it caused huge problems when going to slap which was suddenly to harsh and abrasive. I've since adopted a more medium attack, and it seems to help this. Still, I have to say that a good compressor goes a long way toward helping with this. It really depends on how much adrenaline you have going when you play live. I'm not a showman at all when I play, so sometimes when I have to step out into a slap piece I get really revved up, and things can get out of hand.

IMHO, for fingerstyle players who occasionally slap and just want some help keeping things smooth, the Demeter Compulator is the best thing going that I've tried for live use, even in the rack-mount category.

What some call a "tool" others might call a "crutch". Is Autotune a "tool" for helping vocalists sing in tune? In any event, I don't think the notion of addressing this problem with technique first (before resorting to a piece of equipment) hardly qualifies as "garbage".

Here's something to consider. Bassists that rely on specific equipment to get "their sound" (which includes equipment needed to alter the natural dynamic levels that come from the instrument) might not sound good when they sit in at a jam session or other environment where they are using someone else's gear. I doubt that anyone's going to listen to your excuses about not sounding as good when other guys can sit in and sound great with the same gear.

I have the opposite problem. Fingerstyle too loud and slap doesnt cut through. Some say it's bad slap technique. When i slap my thumb usually goes through to the next string kind of like double thumping without the upstroke. Some tell me it's wrong, some tell me it's not. So i don't really bother since i rarely use it anyway.

But i don't use a compressor because it colours your tone. Or maybe i'm over-sensitive on this matter. Usually i just turn the volume knob down and up. Or have a volume pedal somewhere. Usually also changes your tone, but i find it more natural sounding than having compressors. I am one of those who believe that correct technique solves everything. Which explains my simple setup most of the time.

I am one of those who believe that correct technique solves everything.To a point I agree, but most of the world's greatest technicians still use compressors because of the benefits they bring.

To a point I agree, but most of the world's greatest technicians still use compressors because of the benefits they bring.

Of course they do. That's why i said "I believe" and not "it solves"
;)
Maybe it's because when i started off learning by myself everyone was yelling at me for using lousy technique. And so one day it technique became the main focus of my practicing. Which has it's negative points too. Like not focusing enough on music.

I have to agree with JimmyM here. If you're going to utilize more than one technique then you will be well served by finding a technical "trade-off". Whether it be adjusting string height, technique, or more than likely a bit of both. For me pick-up selection is a great tool for going between slap and fingerstyle, but on the fly it's all about using your hands and setting your bass up to allow some "flexibility". When it's all said and done, many players use some type of signal modification to their advantage but I would advise using your hands and set-up first, you will be more well rounded and gain much more insight into your craft if you do. Just MHO!

Lots of useful advice here - I've gone at it from both approaches now. I've been beefing up my fingerstyle attack... it has slowed me down a bit though.

I've also tried using a compressor, and it does help a little, but I'm using it more for the sonic advantages... I get a different sound when slapping hard when I do slapping softly, and likewise with fingerstyle. The compressor is cool because I can now get those different tones at a more even volume.

...most of the world's greatest technicians still use compressors because of the benefits they bring.

I'm not trying to offend but...that sounds more like a television ad than an educated opinion from an experienced bassist.

I'm not trying to offend but...that sounds more like a television ad than an educated opinion from an experienced bassist.:D Touche! But it is true. Some equipment is just required to get the job done, though. I'm in no way suggesting that compressors become a crutch for poor technique. But I look at bass compression the same way I look at microphone compression. It greatly enhances the experience of the audience, and no amount of technique is going to make up for not having it in many situations. This applies to the stage mix as well.

I say take the time to learn how to control your attack on any technique you employ. I did and after many years of using both limiters and compressors to control attack differences I stopped using anything but my hands for this function...for about ten weeks.

Then I reintroduced a compressor to my setup. Why? Because even though I now feel like I am in complete control over the dynamics of my various technique choices I still like to squeeze my sound occasionally and use it to increase artificially sustain at times. So I think that if you learn to control your attack this device then can be reemployed to one of its other functional uses.

The point here is that we are talking about good technique and applications for gear. It shouldn't be a "never do that" or "always do this" it should be "what works for the job at hand" is perfectly fine.

Spin

Get a decent compressor pedal. These work by squeezing the volume of your sound to an "average" level so it evens out the natural peaks and troughs of your playing. This could help level out your volume.

I use the EBS Multicomp which I can strongly recommend, I've also heard good things about the the Demeter Compulator and if your on a budget the Aphex Punch Factory.

Hope that helps.

I'll second that suggestion (I have an EBS MultiComp and love it), but I'll also add my own.

The height you set your pickups at will effect the dynamic range they produce. Lowering your pickups (to put more distance between them and the strings) will basically compress (somewhat) the dynamic range of the signal generated by the pickups. Remember, slap-pop is basically a vertical vibration of the strings whereas finger-plucking or picking created more of a side-to-side vibration, so the slap-pop stuff is going to cause the strings to swing closer to the pickups while vibrating, which contributes to the slap-pop stuff being louder. But the farther away your strings are from the pickups, the less of a difference it makes which way the strings are vibrating.

I've seen a lot of players who like to set their pickups too high -- so high that when they slap the string, the string actually contacts the surface of the pickup. You should have a good bit of distance between the pickup and the string -- definitely more distance than the action between the string and the highest fret.

Thanks for pointing that out, c0d3h4x0r... completely didn't occur to me. I do have my pickup quite high, because I like playing over the pickup as a ramp. I'll try lowering the pickup and may get a plexiglass ramp or something.

Lowering your pickups (to put more distance between them and the strings) will basically compress (somewhat) the dynamic range of the signal generated by the pickups.
This is 100% incorrect, IME. Lowering your pickups would basically do the opposite. It would give you MORE dynamic range. You would get less level coming out of your bass and would have to add more gain at the preamp stage of your amplification system (or wherever) to get the same level playing with the same attack but your overall dynamic range would be increased.

I agree with you on the part that the string should not come in contact with the pickup or pole pieces.

This is 100% incorrect, IME. Lowering your pickups would basically do the opposite. It would give you MORE dynamic range.

Actually, THAT is incorrect, and the info I originally posted is accurate.

You would get less level coming out of your bass and would have to add more gain at the preamp stage of your amplification system (or wherever) to get the same level playing with the same attack

Note that THIS part of your post is true -- lowering the pickup does mean less output overall, and therefore you have to boost the gain (just a hair) on the preamp. But the net effect is that your dynamic range is compressed. When the pickup is farther away from the string, then all the various ways of playing the string all generate a similarly low signal.

Compare to the opposite setup, where the pickup is nearer to the strings: playing a string very lightly and slapping the hell out of it will generate very different output signals.

Actually, THAT is incorrect, and the info I originally posted is accurate.
Have you tried it?

Have you tried it?

Yes, of course. I would never recommend someone else do something that I hadn't tried myself. It works exactly as I've described.

c0d3h4x0r,

OK, good. Just checking that it wasn't JUST your own theories you're going by.

I've tried it too. I've tried both extremes and everything in between. To my ears, there is no question that a higher pickup height (string closer to the pickup) produces a more compressed sound. I've been playing for over 30 years and I've heard many times from repairmen/setup guys, bass players and guitar players that a higher pickup height (string closer to the pickup) yields a more compressed sound. You're the first guy I've EVER heard say the opposite but, then again, I didn't know I was supposed to be using a compressor all these years to enhance the audience's experience. ;)

Anyway, I did a quick google search and found the following in a guitar setup guide (http://www.electricguitarhandbook.com/articles/pickupheight.shtml) regarding the tonal and dynamic effects of different pickup heights:

---------------------------------

Distance from strings = Close

Tone = Loud, punchy, slightly compressed, percussive, focused, brighter

Application = Lead playing or heavy drive/distortion sounds with as little noise as possible

---------------------------------

Distance from strings = Further

Tone = Smoother, warmer, more character, more dynamic range, "woodier" tone, better balance

Application = Cleaner sounds with more complexity and more dynamic music styles

---------------------------------

Again, it's pretty much the opposite of what you're saying. Are you sure you aren't getting things mixed up? I'm not saying the above information definitively proves my point (although it does affirm what I and many others think) and I would be curious about looking at anything that you could point me to (other than your own opinions or theories) that backs up what you're saying.

Of course, the above guide is geared towards the guitar but it shouldn't really matter - it's still applicable. Maybe we should post this in the Setup or Pickups forum. I'd be curious to hear others weigh in on it.