Hi Mr. Neher. I just purchased the Universal Egg Pin (Short Barrel Model) from Robertson's Violin Shop in NM. I have a few questions regarding how to get this thing working with my bass. Firstly, my bass is really top heavy and it's always falling to the left, with or without the egg-pin installed. I'm 5'6" and the Egg pin came with a 8.5" rod which I think is far too tall for me. On the manual it says to use a hacksaw to find the ideal height; to avoid that I went to home hardware and purcahsed metal rods of 2, 4 and 6 inches. My question is, how does Francois balance his bass? I can't figure out where to position the eggpin to find a place that balances the bass at all. I'm really lost here, I've been looking in the mirror and trying to adjust the gradient/angle/pin-height but I can't find a spot that lets my bass stand properly. Where abouts to you propose to have the pin positioned? If the bass is laying on its back and and the end-pin socket were the "clock", 12 being up or the top of the bass and 6 being down where would you have the crossbar facing? I've been keeping it around 6 o'clock but I find that I can only stand directly behind the bass this way and I can't get the bass to be angled inwards at all. Being a French bow player, standing directly behind the bass seems kind of daunting in order to play nicely on the G-string. Do you have any suggestions as to how to get the bass to rotate inwards?

thank you kindly!

Hi Mr. Neher. I just purchased the Universal Egg Pin (Short Barrel Model) from Robertson's Violin Shop in NM. I have a few questions regarding how to get this thing working with my bass. Firstly, my bass is really top heavy and it's always falling to the left, with or without the egg-pin installed. I'm 5'6" and the Egg pin came with a 8.5" rod which I think is far too tall for me. On the manual it says to use a hacksaw to find the ideal height; to avoid that I went to home hardware and purcahsed metal rods of 2, 4 and 6 inches. My question is, how does Francois balance his bass? I can't figure out where to position the eggpin to find a place that balances the bass at all. I'm really lost here, I've been looking in the mirror and trying to adjust the gradient/angle/pin-height but I can't find a spot that lets my bass stand properly. Where abouts to you propose to have the pin positioned? If the bass is laying on its back and and the end-pin socket were the "clock", 12 being up or the top of the bass and 6 being down where would you have the crossbar facing? I've been keeping it around 6 o'clock but I find that I can only stand directly behind the bass this way and I can't get the bass to be angled inwards at all. Being a French bow player, standing directly behind the bass seems kind of daunting in order to play nicely on the G-string. Do you have any suggestions as to how to get the bass to rotate inwards?

thank you kindly!

Hi Calvin,
You have posed a major question here... I doubt that an easy answer can be advised without actually seeing how you approach your instrument: what your stance is and what are you attempting to accomplish. A few things to consider: First, if you do not have a teacher that is familiar with using a bent pin, get one! Second, not all basses are well suited to the EggPin, in my humble opinion, however MOST basses seem to do well with the Laborie-style pin (where a hole is drilled at an angle in the endpin block, and you use a straight carbon-fibre rod with a rubber ball on it. This angle is usually fine at about 43-45 degrees for most bassists. See the latest Double Bassist Magazine for an article on Christian Laborie that I wrote, and a few issues before that on François Rabbath. Both articles talk about the Laborie Endpin). If your bass seems "muted" by the use of the EggPin, then you know where I am coming from. In addition, the EggPin is HEAVY, which, again for some basses is a problem. Sounds like for your bass it may balance the upper-bout weight you talk about, so may not be an issue. Third, the angle I use and with all of my students is in-line with the back seam of the bass. In otherwords, it is in-line with the center of the bass. Some people who are tall, like Paul Ellison, and the bass is small, prefer an angle slightly to the right (or left!) to give the bass a spin in the opposite direction. I DO NOT believe this is necessary. Once you learn how to balance the bass, with the pin in the center position, you will be able to play any bass with any end-pin. So, keep, in MHO, working at balance with the pin centered. Fourth: The pin should extend beyond the back of the bass a variable amount, depending on how high you need the bass off the ground, and how heavy the bass is. The more the pin is beyond the back (its contact with the floor) towards you, the more it will want to fall forward, away from you (this is good to eleviate the weight on the LH thumb) but there is an optimal angle that works for the bow. I again want you to beware angling the bass into you so that you DON'T reach for the G. You SHOULD reach for the G and be able to ARC the bow/arm across all four or five strings with simply raising and lowering your arm (still bent at the elbow). If you allow the bass to spin inward, toward you (right), then you are reducing the amount of weight which can easily be applied to all strings, especially the E. Beware of hitting your leg when on the E for example. And finally, the bass should contact you at the edge of the back rib, at or near your center/waist area, usually, but not always, inside the left hip bone in that "softish" area. Some players have it further in towards the pubic bone, depending on the size of the upper bouts of the bass. You should ALWAYS have body contact here with the bass (therfore a three-point stance: Body/waist contact, endpin to floor, and the thumb of LH (and in thumb position the bass rests on your shoulder)). Holding the bass with your chest (touching is okay when in thumb positions, but remain contact with the waist!) or arm in any way diminishes your ability to move around the instrument.
So: I suggest that it may take up to TWO YEARS for you to feel balanced with an angled pin (whether it be the Eggpin or Laborie). Don't FRET (no pun intended). Simply allow the balance to come to you... it will if you are not frantic. Then you will pick up any bass, anywhere, any pin, and find it is easier to play. This angle (the "cello-like" angle) is really an "open-faced" stance that can be used on any bass. It is just that laziness and weight on the left hand cause us to rotate the bass to the right, away from our left hand... TO THE DETRIMENT of the bow: weight and motion. Focus on the music making of both hands, and you will realize that the nuances the open-faced stance gives your bow, will outweigh any slight inconvenience to the left hand. The angled pins reduce or eliminate this inconvenience.
Good Luck... and get a consultant to observe you!!!!
Best!
PN:hyper:

Thanks for the fantastic advice! I find that when the bass is centered I can access thumb position much easier because my body is not in some contorted funny stance, it's just straight up and down motion. While I was using this method while sitting, a teacher who heard me play suggested that I stand because he felt I was too short to sit...Ie. my left leg was always dampening the back of the bass. He suggested I stand with my left knee hitting the right corner of the lower bout with the bass slanted inwards at an angle and with the bass rotated inwards. I found this stance to be very awkward, he suggested it mainly because he felt that I didn't have any access to the D and G strings while I was sitting in the "cello like" position. I do find that when I am sitting/standing in the cello position I have to really pronate my bow arm's wrist to get a good angle of bow stroke and a sound that sounds weak and forced in comparison to the lower two strings. In Rabbath photos it looks like his bass is facing inwards a bit to give his bow arm a shorter angle in accommodating the g-string. Personally I really love the relaxation of sitting but I do find that I really dampen my bass when I am seated.

So, I was toying around with what you were talking about Mr. Neher and I actually got the Egg-Pin working. The Problem was that the barrel was too stiff and was only at about a +20 degree angle off 90, instead of 44-46. I oiled the barrel and it rotated perfectly to 45 degrees. I went to Home Hardware and purchased different sized metal rods to test height. I decided to stick with a 6 inch rod and the instrument is balancing beautifully. It sounds so much more open and free now that the back isn't dampened by my leg/knee. I must thank you!!!!

So, I was toying around with what you were talking about Mr. Neher and I actually got the Egg-Pin working. The Problem was that the barrel was too stiff and was only at about a +20 degree angle off 90, instead of 44-46. I oiled the barrel and it rotated perfectly to 45 degrees. I went to Home Hardware and purchased different sized metal rods to test height. I decided to stick with a 6 inch rod and the instrument is balancing beautifully. It sounds so much more open and free now that the back isn't dampened by my leg/knee. I must thank you!!!!

You are MOST WELCOME, my friend. I can only hope that ALL advise is taken with a grain of salt, as not all words apply to all people. Individual experimentation, exploration, and inprovisation is what makes a musician great... sounds as if you are on the path!
Best!
PN:smug:

Just wanted to make a few additional comments. I'm going to be using this device in the orchestra because I feel that by standing it really helps my back since I'm not hunched over. I've found that if I move the barrel up the cross bar half way and angle it so the pin looks like it would be coming out of the bottom of the bass 1 inch South of the original endpin whole, it gives me these benefits:

Despite the extreme angle of the pin, I angle the bass almost vertical just like a normal endpin, but the weight of the bass has now shifted so much that all the weight is off my thumb.

Since my bass is so top heavy I don't think I'll ever really be-able to get rid of the bass falling left and right, but the thumb has so much less pressure, it's made things so much easier.

If you're worried about damping the back of the bass with your left leg while sitting, try using a foot stool or block.

If you're worried about damping the back of the bass with your left leg while sitting, try using a foot stool or block.

Paul,what is this block you speak of?

I think he means a foam brick or a wooden block. A common Yoga type block would work.