So, we have 2 guys who play the guitar pretty well, a singer who sings very well, and a drummer who knows what hes doing.


Meanwhile, I'm over here on bass being the musician.

One of the guitar players was in marching band and was writing the drill for his high school, so I know he is just playing dumb.

Anyways.


It call came to me last night... How truely stupid they really are.

We were working on a new tune.

Starts out with a little guitar run for 4 counts, bass and drums come in on 1, then little 2 bar diddly rock thingy, and then into a reggae section.

Anyways. It is 4 counts from the rock section to the reggae section. Easy, right?

Well, my singer, to put bluntly, is a loud mouthed bitch who can't shut up.

Her and the electric guitarist (who are dating, by the way :rollno: ) keep telling the drummer "After that rock section, you do the GACK GACK GACK and then into the reggae section."

So, they keep explaining it to the drummer like that, and he is just doing the GACK thing randomly.... but always at somepoint within the 4.

I stop everyone, explain the 4-count after the rock section, then into the reggae section.... I don't bother explaining the GACK thing (he has rythm, but doesnt "know" it per se, so im not going to explode his head with the technicalities of those quarter note triplets.)

So, we try it, we nail it...

And then my next problem.


Half of this song is based on the 3-1-5-2 progression.

The last song we wrote (Apathy) is all 3-1-5-2....

A song we wrote last year is 3-1-5-2....

So, in this song, that change is mostly a punk-section anyways. so I am just chugging the roots.



Singer: "Mike, you already do that in apathy."

Me: "Sorry, I'm out of basslines that that progression for this month."

Singer: "Well, I don't like what your doing."

Guitarist: "Ya Mikie, come up with something... Mr. Endorsement."

(I get a lot of crap over the whole avatar thing.)

Me: "Well, learn how to play those 4 chords in a different order."


I don't even have the benefit of switching majors/minors

All 3 songs are in majors.

But anyways...

It pisses me of because the guitar player has to worry about playing on 2 and 4 just doing chucks.... And then I'm expected to have killer lines for the same progression for the 3rd time.

Naturally, I came up with one. Just took a few ideas from flea in "Soul To Squeeze"

Anyone else spend a lot of time with people who claim to be "musicians" but cant even count to 4?

You sound like an angry person. You should enroll in karate classes, or Tai Chi.

Mike, i thought you were the gay guy in the band???

LOL

:D :p

Yessir.

I made mention in an earlier thread of a guitard known only as "R". In that particular band, the drummer and sax player were both music majors and in the SHSU jazz band with me, so I knew they had their theory down. The keyboard player was brand new to the whole music scene, so plenty of slack was cut for him in regards to his lack of musical knowledge, especially since he was actively trying to learn as much as he could in private lessons with me.

R on the other hand was by far the best guitar player I've ever played with, but he also could not read music and had no concept of music theory at all whatsoever. Sure, he could play the licks, but it was absolutely hopeless trying to explain to him a triplet pattern in 6/8 in the key of Am...

He also refused to learn. He swore up and down that learning to read and putting a name to all that theory he knew would constrict his expression. He also was known to rant and rave about how classically trained musicians (like myself, the drummer, and the sax player) weren't even real musicians at all.

It was the worst when he got the bright idea to add violin and cello to one of our songs and was actually shocked when they asked for music to read. So what happened? I had to sit there in his dorm for three hours listening to him go "Ok, it goes duh duh duhduhduhduh..." so I could put it into notation for the violinist and cellist.

Yessir.

I made mention in an earlier thread of a guitard known only as "R". In that particular band, the drummer and sax player were both music majors and in the SHSU jazz band with me, so I knew they had their theory down. The keyboard player was brand new to the whole music scene, so plenty of slack was cut for him in regards to his lack of musical knowledge, especially since he was actively trying to learn as much as he could in private lessons with me.

R on the other hand was by far the best guitar player I've ever played with, but he also could not read music and had no concept of music theory at all whatsoever. Sure, he could play the licks, but it was absolutely hopeless trying to explain to him a triplet pattern in 6/8 in the key of Am...

He also refused to learn. He swore up and down that learning to read and putting a name to all that theory he knew would constrict his expression. He also was known to rant and rave about how classically trained musicians (like myself, the drummer, and the sax player) weren't even real musicians at all.

It was the worst when he got the bright idea to add violin and cello to one of our songs and was actually shocked when they asked for music to read. So what happened? I had to sit there in his dorm for three hours listening to him go "Ok, it goes duh duh duhduhduhduh..." so I could put it into notation for the violinist and cellist.

I get so annoyed by that "don't learn too much theory or it'll stifle your creativity" $h!t...that's a rationalization for being too dumb or lazy. True-there are 1000's of ways to skin a cat but just say you're too dumb or lazy to learn music. Who's with me?!

HEAR HEAR!

CHARGE!!







where we going?

Yup.

So i was right!!

So you're endorsed by Avatar and in a band like that? Hmmm. Where can I sign up to get endorsed?

So you're endorsed by Avatar and in a band like that? Hmmm. Where can I sign up to get endorsed?

I basically just asked.



:p

I consider bass as a melodic-harmonic-percussive instrument. If band mates need a root note they better think of it, unless they provide it themselves, in the first place. I am allowed to provide people non-root based melodic bass-lines (unless I want to provide the root, instead of implying it). I don't tell the rest of the band members what to play so they should not tell me too.

This sort of thing was (and still is) rampant back home in Lawrence, KS. I just got back from my summer vacation there and it's amazing how much of this hypocritical, know-it-all attitude is thrown around while there's very little backing up of these astronomical claims going on!

I think a true musician should be well-balanced in every sense of the word. Knowing your theory and being able to sight-read well are skills that are just as important as being able to improvise and speak from the heart. I feel as though I'm constantly improving my skills both on the page and off. For years, jazz folks would poke fun at classical musicians for being "afraid" of playing without their precious music and likewise, classical musicians at jazzers for not being very good readers or just not knowing their theory (which is a vast generalization in itself). With the proliferation of the "learn guitar in 10 minutes" books and the recycled garbage that gets overplayed on the radio, I can see how some are growing up believing that what they already know about music is enough to last them the rest of their life. Wake up! You should never stop learning. I'll be 90 years old (hopefully) and still learning and getting better!

All I can do in your situation is be patient and try to get them to see things differently, no matter how stubborn they may be. I often find that some months (or years later), the person comes back to me and says that they were sorry for being so stubborn and short-sighted and that they're glad that I didn't give up on them. That's always a cool feeling. Although, if they're extraordinarily stubborn or just plain ol' dumb, I'll usually cut them loose (or find another project).

So... I just started doing some lame little run on the 3-1-5-2 part... I was doing it higher up, in order to strum the run and the root at the same time...


And they said it sounded lame and to play it lower.


But I like the strumming.

It had sort of a NOFX/Fat Mike style to it...

if i did the run an octave lower and left the root, and it just seemed so regular.

Screw them.

They are getting the strumming.

Guitarist: "Ya Mikie, come up with something... Mr. Endorsement."

(I get a lot of crap over the whole avatar thing.)

Me: "Well, learn how to play those 4 chords in a different order."



ROTFLMAO! :D

Ain't that the truth...

I've at least got decent guitar players; now if we could just get the drummer to time his changes to the actual song structure. There's nothing like hitting the chorus a bar before the rest of the band does! Maybe it's his way of soloing...

-Mark

So... I just started doing some lame little run on the 3-1-5-2 part... I was doing it higher up, in order to strum the run and the root at the same time...


And they said it sounded lame and to play it lower.


But I like the strumming.

It had sort of a NOFX/Fat Mike style to it...

if i did the run an octave lower and left the root, and it just seemed so regular.

Screw them.

They are getting the strumming.

Not trying to start anything but...maybe it didn't sound as good as you thought?.! You gotta serve the song. A "regular" sounding bassline may be perfect in the mix...just a suggestion.

Not trying to start anything but...maybe it didn't sound as good as you thought?.! You gotta serve the song. A "regular" sounding bassline may be perfect in the mix...just a suggestion.

I'd be inclined to agree with you, but I believe the point of his first post was that he actually tried that and got bashed for it.

I've been there Mike, all I can say is get out and find something better.... Life is too short.

I'd be inclined to agree with you, but I believe the point of his first post was that he actually tried that and got bashed for it.

aahhh. Hey, atleast they listen to the bass! :D

aahhh. Hey, atleast they listen to the bass! :D

Amen, Brother. :)

Not trying to start anything but...maybe it didn't sound as good as you thought?.! You gotta serve the song. A "regular" sounding bassline may be perfect in the mix...just a suggestion.



They dont like it because I'm not allowed to have fun. :bawl:

The pressure, guys... I have to do all the solos now, too. I can't solo. I want the lead player back.... I just wanna be held.

The pressure...

:bawl:

Bah!


Post above me:

Its Reggae (for the most part :confused: )

I am the band. MWU HA HA HA HA HA ABSOLUTE POWER

So... I just started doing some lame little run on the 3-1-5-2 part... I was doing it higher up, in order to strum the run and the root at the same time...


And they said it sounded lame and to play it lower.


But I like the strumming.

It had sort of a NOFX/Fat Mike style to it...

if i did the run an octave lower and left the root, and it just seemed so regular.

Screw them.

They are getting the strumming.

You guys sound functional as all get out.

Exactly.


But we get our crap together come gig day, and get cool shows. somehow

As a long time member here at Talk Bass, I've learned that it just can't be easy to be Mike Money.

Good thing there aren't any ego problems with the band. Then you'd really be in trouble.

The biggest egos are definitely the electric player and the singer.

They are dating.

So it is one big ego.

Myself, the drummer, and the acoustic player could really care less. We basically just go through the motions and go along with whatever... and drink.

The duo also rights all the songs. So sometimes they are fighting about the apparent disparity in whos songs are being played more. (Chris' are way better. Shonnie's tend to consist of 3-5 chords just repeating)

My ego is a problem too... but I try to keep it on the DL... I've just never actually been in a band where there was no one better or more knowledgeable than me... and it doesn't help that none of them want to learn.

The last few bands I have been in were with awsome jazz musicians here in bakersfield... I got through, but I was always a few steps behind the rest of the group. I liked it because I was just constantly absorbing ideas.

I guess its just a weird dynamic for me...

Try having a drummer like that when you are trying to write tech metal.

Fired!

You sound like an angry person. You should enroll in karate classes, or Tai Chi.

Speaking of tai chi, my dog hates tai chi. Any thime she sees someone in the park doing that weird stuff, she barks at them.

Speaking of tai chi, my dog hates tai chi. Any thime she sees someone in the park doing that weird stuff, she barks at them.

and the most off-topic post of the day award goes to MUNJIBUNGA

The biggest egos are definitely the electric player and the singer.

So it is one big ego.

/snip

My ego is a problem too... but I try to keep it on the DL... I've just never actually been in a band where there was no one better or more knowledgeable than me... and it doesn't help that none of them want to learn.



Pot, meet kettle.

bass isnt percussive. speakers are

it just seems percussive because of the volume of air being moved and its similarity to the low end/high volume of the drummer

i always hate when people say bass is a percussive instrument.

This sort of reminds me of a band that I recently joined. Its a classic rock band, lots of covers, a few originals, mainly blues in A!

Anyway, the drummer is great, solid sense of time and rythmn, and the vocalist is good, though not great - he only started singing about a year ago. Unfortunatly, the guitard, whilst he can do a mean solo, has absolutly no sense of time. Whatsoever.
Seriously.

For instance, we were having a bit of a jam, and the drummer started with a decent beat, and I was about to start playing, when on the 2and of the beat, the guitard starts a four count for me and him to both start. Naturally it sounded like ass, but he wouldnt even correct his timing to what the drums were doing, he just stubbornly kept playing the same riff until me and the drums changed to his version of 4/4.

And this happens during the songs too. Every now and again he'll play bars of 3/4, 7/8 and various things like that, for no other reason than he cant keep time. This is the only band the drummer has been in, and he thinks that its his fault, and that it must be him thats going out of time, because the guitarist is so good, and must know what hes doing.

Seriously, ive never played with, or met, anyone with a worse sense of time than him.

/rant over

bass isnt percussive. speakers are

it just seems percussive because of the volume of air being moved and its similarity to the low end/high volume of the drummer

i always hate when people say bass is a percussive instrument.

Where did that come from? And who told you bass wasn't percussive?

It can be argued that bass can be a percussive instrument in the same way a piano is a percussive instrument if you slap it.

It can be argued that bass can be a percussive instrument in the same way a piano is a percussive instrument if you slap it.

Exactly. That's where the piano's sound comes from. The hammer strike the strings, creating a ringing noise that sounds quite heavenly.

Besides, what's so bad about the bass being described as percussive?

IMHO, there's really no reason to take offense to that.

There isn't a reason. That's what creates the unique relationship between drums & bass. And why it sounds so D@mn good when drums & bass groove. Ya dig?

I suggest a good cleansing with fire...















































them or yourself, I haven't decided which yet.

I'm THE musician in one of the bands I'm in. It does suck. It great in the other band I'm in because the sax player knows a lot more than I do.

I know what you're saying. I get that a lot. I try to let them do their own thing... but they just want me to tell them what to do.