I am just curious more than anything, why wait until now to start up a Doublebass bluegrass niche? Why wasn't one started in 1998? Since that was the beginning of talkbass.
No smoke screens please. Thanks so much for answering my questions.
ES1

Actually, it hasn't been very long since separate areas were created for specific genres of music. There didn't used to be ANY. When they were created, Bluegrass and Rockabilly were lumped together. The owner and moderators listened to the request(s) of some of the bluegrassers - heard us, and responded. Kudos are due.

My guess is this. 1998 was 9 years ago and there wasn't as much traffic to the Talkbass site as there has been in recent years. It took a while for us upright players (and everybody else) to get off dialup and get the word around to friends of this valuable resource.

Prior to that time, I'd say the usuage was pretty slow and has just now gotten to the point of sectionalizing the different styles of playing.

I'm glad things are what they are at this point.

I thought it was because it took awhile for bluegrass bassists to figure out why a typewriter was hooked up to a TV....

I thought it was because it took awhile for bluegrass bassists to figure out why a typewriter was hooked up to a TV....Well, yeah, that too.

.... it took awhile for bluegrass bassists to figure out why a typewriter was hooked up to a TV....

Good 'un Ed :D ! Now we are trying to figure out what to do with that bent stick that a horse gave up some purfectly good tail fer and how to archipelagrate them pesky chords :p . I sure would like to make it to the large apple someday and watch you and hear you 'pelagrating some of those jazz chords (honest ... I would :) ).

Good 'un Ed :D ! Now we are trying to figure out what to do with that bent stick that a horse gave up some purfectly good tail fer and how to archipelagrate them pesky chords :p . I sure would like to make it to the large apple someday and watch you and hear you 'pelagrating some of those jazz chords (honest ... I would :) ).

Here's yer sign!

So, case in point, Only half of ya that posted actually play bluegrass, and it feels like an obligatory act, rather than an actual attempt to provide a place for bluegrass bassist to discuss their genre. Thanks for the effort, but no thanks.

ES1

I am just curious more than anything, why wait until now to start up a Doublebass bluegrass niche? Why wasn't one started in 1998? Since that was the beginning of talkbass.
No smoke screens please. Thanks so much for answering my questions.
ES1

I think the honest answer is that as a classical double bassist, I set up the initial set of forums from my perspective - with orchestral audition and technique forums etc. A jazz forum was added later, and as you know forums continue to be added. My job as the steward of this community is to do what I can to facilitate discussion between bassists of all genres, and to listen to whatever feedback the community is sending my way. Sounds cheesy I know... But it soon became apparent that not only are rockabilly and bluegrassers high enough in numbers here to warrant their own forum, they are enough of a presence here to warrant their own separate forums (as seen in discussion activity since January 07 in the combined forum). When considering a new forum, its benefits are weighed against possible negative results - such as spreading discussion too thin, or creating confusion with too many overlapping forums.

Hope this answers your question :)

I thought it was because it took awhile for bluegrass bassists to figure out why a typewriter was hooked up to a TV....


Its comments that this make it very easy to look elsewhere. Good for you Ed. I had to have someone else type for me too.
Later

Paul,
Thank you. I appreciate you noticing the little niche, of a niche, of a niche. Bluegrass bassist.

ES1

You seem very bitter.
You should try rockabilly sometimes.

Here's yer sign!

Thanks Hi-Rev Zulu :) .... to which sign are you referring?

1) "Seeking qualified Double Bass Instructor. Must be proficient in teaching arco technique and music theory, especially arpeggiation and improvisational techniques. Must like cows. Inquire Within."

or 2) "2 Kay Basses for Sale. Can't figure out how to play the big sob's, my car's too small to fit them in, and my wrists and fingers are killing me. Inquire Within." :D

Thanks Paul for creating a bluegrass spot. I understand your perspective and the evolution of TalkBass. Since I joined a year ago, I have seen a lot of positive growth. To You and The Moderators ... Keep Up the Good Work. I'll try to check in regularly. I've learned a ton of good info in all of the different forums.

OK, Paul, now get to work ..... you gotta get those "WashTub Bass" and "Croatian Klezmer Bass" Forums activated :p . Now please don't get down on me you tubber and klezmatic types .... I like it all ;) .

P.S. Paul, when you get a chance, could you move the 3 topics now residing in "RockaBilly" forum entitled "Some Bass Humor" and "walk help" and "Ribbon VS Condensor Mics" to this Bluegrass forum. I'm pretty sure that they would fit better here. Thanks :) !

Ya gotta understand Ed - I'm insulted when he DOESN"T poke fun...

This is very good.

Rockabilly is a very different approach to playing than Bluegrass. Very different than Jazz, Classical, and god forbid Rock and Roll.

Although there is crossover from topic to topic across most styles of music, having a separate place for those who do specifically different things to discuss their particular thing is useful.

It sidesteps the inevitable classism that can creep into discussions by those that don't respect one style as much as another. It allows those that desire it the opportunity to participate fully without having to deflect the criticism levied at the genre as a whole.

I respect Roy Husky and Lee Rocker as much as my classical hero Columbus Symphony Principal Mark Morton and my beloved Ray Brown. They all do/did different things that require different concentrations but each have dedicated themselves fully to their approach. By interacting with those that have followed in their footsteps I can improve my own playing, incorporating the specific components of their study into my own and thus develop my own style fully.


I have much to learn from them all.

Paul, thanks for noticing and for being aware enough to cut us from the herd. :)

I thought it was because it took awhile for bluegrass bassists to figure out why a typewriter was hooked up to a TV....

Several people (both here & over at the "other" place) have been PDQ to jump to Ed's defense - "oh, that's just Ed being Ed" . . . Sorry - but, that just doesn't float for me . . . "we" don't know Ed & have no history with his unique sense of humor (?) ; therefore, taken at face value, his comment was at best counter-productive & disrespectful to paul's efforts . . . and . . . at worst offensive as well as reflective of the perceived attitude of superiority by some from other genres here at this site . . . sure didn't make me feel all warm & fuzzy when I first read it & oh, btw, it still doesn't.

Thanks, Paul - nice try, anyway . . . your efforts are commendable & appreciated. You know what they say, "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions" . . . & . . . I, for one, hope that it's not all for naught.

Fact is I have been stereotyped so many times in my 55 years on this planet I finally got sick of it and do tend to get real defensive at times. Yeah, I've got a real cool Appalachian American accent I've been workin' on all these years as well, and if someone thinks I'm a dumba$$ on account of the way I talk I really pour it on then........:D:cool: . I'm tickled to see this bluegrass forum. Thanks a bushel!!

... and if someone thinks I'm a dumba$$ on account of the way I talk I really pour it on then........:D:cool: . I'm tickled to see this bluegrass forum. Thanks a bushel!!

lmao--now that's funny :D

you're fellow grasser

. . . I, for one, hope that it's not all for naught.Me too. I hope we can all remember that there's a wide diversity of backgrounds and personalities in our genre of music - and especially in the bass-playing community. I'm as defensive about my Appalachian heritiage (mixed with midwestern Yankee) as anyone. At the same time, crusty old Northeastern jazzin' city boys like Ed have spent a whole lot of time on this forum educating newbies - as I was a few short years ago. That's a contribution I'm grateful for.

I can take a little ribbing - and give it back, too. I, too, feel that BluegrassBassPlace.com is "home" to us bluegrassers. But I think it benefits our community to participate in the wider bassist world rather than withdrawing to our own sanctuary. We can't contribute if we ain't here...:)

I think it's cool that we've now got fishin' gear ads on TalkBass.

Aw, Ed's just pissy because he's got a big greasy ham on the end of each arm and can't play the piano because of it. He calls me "Hillwilliam", I call him "Foghorn". It's all in good fun. Besides, there's no need to worry - one of your moderators is an old country boy from the bluegrass state...if anybody really starts in with the hayseed jokes in earnest, send 'em my way. :)

Seriously, the moderators may or may not read everything that happens on a site like this - I used to, but now's there's just too much. I rely on reported post notifications to tell me when there's moderating to be considered, and I suspect that Damon and Jeremy do too. If you see something that needs action, whether it be a thread that needs to be moved or a troll stirring up the pot, just report the post and we'll take a look.

Its comments that this make it very easy to look elsewhere. Good for you Ed. I had to have someone else type for me too.ES1 AND Only half of ya that posted actually play bluegrass, and it feels like an obligatory act, rather than an actual attempt to provide a place for bluegrass bassist to discuss their genre. Thanks for the effort, but no thanks.
Well in all seriousness and with all due respect to Paul, whose bar we are in, if you will, you came in with a chip on your shoulder and seemed, in my opinion, to be looking for somebody to dislodge it. My postulate was that it wouldn't take much and, sure enough, all I had to do was sort of flap my newspaper from across the room.

As Admin Pawlie alludes, he started this entity almost as a guestbook kind of thing, back around 95 or 96(?) any of the changes are evolutionary , they exist only because it made more sense to make the change than to keep things the way they were. The break off of the BG side of the board, the Classified sections, Off Topic etc etc etc. These were all driven by the realities of posts that necessitated their creation.

The reason the JAZZ THEORY section of the DB side was created was NOT that Paul decided that it was a good idea, but the volume of posts and threads that could fall under this specific topic umbrella had reached a critical mass. If it took a different amount of time for that to happen with bluegrass bassists, topics etc. that's not a function of PAUL, that's a function of input from YOU and people like YOU.

So I am curious more than anything. Since this forum has been available since at LEAST 1997 (and I really think I was posting at the prior incarnation in 96, cause Jim K hiiped me to it on the now defunct Jazz Central Station and I was there in 95), why is it only NOW that you start posting here?


Several people (both here & over at the "other" place) have been PDQ to jump to Ed's defense - "oh, that's just Ed being Ed" . . . Sorry - but, that just doesn't float for me . . . "we" don't know Ed & have no history with his unique sense of humor (?) ; therefore, taken at face value, his comment was at best counter-productive & disrespectful to paul's efforts . . . and . . . at worst offensive as well as reflective of the perceived attitude of superiority by some from other genres here at this site . . . sure didn't make me feel all warm & fuzzy when I first read it & oh, btw, it still doesn't.

Well again, see above. You come into a bar looking for a fight, you really shouldn't complain when you find one. I'll be happy to put my contributions on this site up against yours post for post, if you want to make the assessment as to what's "counterproductive" and "disrespectful to the site's administrator.

Well, ain't this a grand way to start things?

Lest anyone think we moderators are letting Ed "get away" with something, let me hip you to a truth: Ed's been here a loooong time. His contribution to TalkBass, and his TalkBass personality, are an open book -- they are wide open for you to see if you only checked it out. He's a regular, a die-hard, and if this were a real bar there would be a pewter mug on a shelf above the bar with his name engraved on it. Was his comment insulting? Maybe, if you've been around the place 10 minutes or less and have never checked Ed out. If you've been around longer than that and have checked Ed out, you know that there isn't really a problem here. I suggest you get to know him and get some value out of him -- there's plenty there.

Besides, don't you know he's from Georgia or North Carolina or some such kudzu-overrun, grits-eating, southern steampipe? I suspect there's more good 'ol boy in there -- and bluegrass appreciation -- than you might think right off the top, him coming off all New Yorker and jazzy and sophisticated these days.

ES1 -- you have a huge chip on your shoulder and I don't really get it. I thought about your post for maybe 10 minutes last night and discarded a few draft responses. I figured after all it wasn't worth pursuing. Your attitude just doesn't make sense to me. If you took the time to put together a viewpoint I could understand, maybe we can do something about it.

Why do I have the feeling Durrl is about to post a picture of a kitten???? Lighten up for Pete's sake!

I am glad to see we do have a dedicated bluegrass forum. I just hope we don't let it wither on the vine like some of the other bluegrass forums I have visited.

Why do I have the feeling Durrl is about to post a picture of a kitten???? Lighten up for Pete's sake!

I am glad to see we do have a dedicated bluegrass forum. I just hope we don't let it wither on the vine like some of the other bluegrass forums I have visited.

I would appreciate it greatly if somebody could photoshop my head in here.

Dean or Kitten, take your pick.

Well Gentlemen,
I play ALOT of Bluegrass here in NYC (of all places ). I am also looking to branch out into the rockabilly and western swing genres. Maybe in the future I'd like to give Dixieland/Jump Blues a whirl. What I don't quite follow is the need for niches. As I get more familiar with one new genre, I find similarities and overtones in others. Skills are the tools that are embedded within us and leads to expressing ourselves. I never ask for a solo. That is not my role in any of the ensembles I play in. I'm a supporting player, holding the thing together, the best I can. Dynamics and Drive are what I bring. The search and aquisition of skills to complement my role in a band or Jam is no different than my approach to life itself. I take All in, churn it around and spew it out. Why else do it if you can't have fun. Helping and encouraging others in the pursuit of their goals is rewarding in itself. Even being a jackass can be fun a times, don't take it so personal.

I would appreciate it greatly if somebody could photoshop my head in here.

Dean or Kitten, take your pick.

".... and we're going to South Dakota and Oregon and Washington and Michigan! And then we're going to Washington, D.C., to take back the White House! Just as soon as I finish choking my kitten...... YEAAARRRGHHHH!!!"

Just as soon as I finish choking my kitten...... YEAAARRRGHHHH!!!"Choking your chicken?

Choking your chicken?
Hey... Dean said it, not me!

What I don't quite follow is the need for niches.
Mr. Paul Warburton once said, "I think rather than being concerned about what is jazz, or what isn't, try to use your heart and imagination and forget the genre labels."

And there you are, Dad.

The search and aquisition of skills to complement my role in a band or Jam is no different than my approach to life itself. I take All in, churn it around and spew it out. Why else do it if you can't have fun. Helping and encouraging others in the pursuit of their goals is rewarding in itself. Even being a jackass can be fun a times, don't take it so personal.
Words to live by. Your kids are lucky, Dad.

Well again, see above. You come into a bar looking for a fight, you really shouldn't complain when you find one. I'll be happy to put my contributions on this site up against yours post for post, if you want to make the assessment as to what's "counterproductive" and "disrespectful to the site's administrator.

Tell ya what, Ed . . . I sure as Hades didn't come here lookin' for a fight . . . & . . . I most sincerely would not want to be in any way considered by anyone as being hypocritically counterproductive to the efforts of the administrator; . . . however, in response to the above quote, I do have but one question: Just what part of "taken at face value" do you not understand? Don't bother - that was rhetorical !

Besides, it would be downright plumb foolish - why, absolutely, no contest at all - especially, what with my being sooo waay outta my league - for an ignorant little ol' "newbie" / beginner / outsider / hick such as myself from small-town,TX to take on such an exalted loooong time iconic BMOC from NYC such as yourself. It's quite obvious that, at least in your eyes, I'm not capable, let alone worthy, of making even so much as an observation, let alone any contribution(s) for your omnipotent consideration here on your rarified domain.

I learned early on to never stay around where ya don't feel welcome; therefore, please, Mr. BMOC, please, just allow me to tuck my tail between my legs and sheepishly slink back from whence I came, never to return . . . AMF !!! ;)

I play Folk music, and that requires knowing alot of different genres. Classical, Jazz, Bluegrass, Rockabilly, and that is just the DB side of the coin. I play BG as well. I grew up with a Jazz musician for a father, and know well the snobishness of certain genre types. Dad used to get on me about the 'Hillbilly Music' i was into, but when I started playing, HE was the one encouraging me to get back to the lone acoustic guitar and harmonica music of Bob Dylan, to come up with some creative way to express myself on the bass. I know Ed from several years ago on Activebass.com, and have a ton of respect for him. Over there, years ago we had a saying when he would jibe somebody, and y'all (Yes, I live in GA, transplanted from IN) have just experienced it. - Kung Fuquaed! I know what he posted seems a bit rude, and I don't mean to seem a bit jumping on the defense bandwagon, but you have to take Ed Fuqua with a grain of salt occassionally. Let's move on!

http://terriformico.com/images/hang-in-there-cute-kitten-wallpaper_wl4p.jpg

Please, someone, anyone, SAVE THE KITTEN!

I know summer's almost over, but .....
http://catrecipes.com/recipes/beercan.html

Please, someone, anyone, SAVE THE KITTEN!

Wasn't Jack Lemon nominated for an Oscar in that one?

Tell ya what, Ed . . . I sure as Hades didn't come here lookin' for a fight . . . & . . . I most sincerely would not want to be in any way considered by anyone as being hypocritically counterproductive to the efforts of the administrator; . . . however, in response to the above quote, I do have but one question: Just what part of "taken at face value" do you not understand? Don't bother - that was rhetorical !

Besides, it would be downright plumb foolish - why, absolutely, no contest at all - especially, what with my being sooo waay outta my league - for an ignorant little ol' "newbie" / beginner / outsider / hick such as myself from small-town,TX to take on such an exalted loooong time iconic BMOC from NYC such as yourself. It's quite obvious that, at least in your eyes, I'm not capable, let alone worthy, of making even so much as an observation, let alone any contribution(s) for your omnipotent consideration here on your rarified domain.

I learned early on to never stay around where ya don't feel welcome; therefore, please, Mr. BMOC, please, just allow me to tuck my tail between my legs and sheepishly slink back from whence I came, never to return . . . AMF !!! ;)


First, please forgive me for not being clear, I really should have done a quote so that my attribution was specifically directed. I was referring to the original poster "looking for a fight" (...why wait until now to start up a Doublebass bluegrass niche? Why wasn't one started in 1998? ...No smoke screens please.) The implication being that 1. there was some discrimination in the decision not to "start at the beginning" and 2. unless ES1 told the collective US not to bulls**t him, we would lie through our teeth.

As for the rest, feel free to do what makes you most comfortable.

I know Ed from several years ago on Activebass.com,


And now yer in GA! Whereat? And what did you post under at activebass? E-mail or PM me if you feel like.

Well f*ck me kids.

Here we have a special Bluegrass Forum for one day and we're already having hissy fits and taking our ball and going home to play.

Sheesh. Ed doesn't suffer fools gladly and he's pretty funny while he's bursting the balloon.

I'm glad he's checking out the bluegrass place. You never know, maybe he'll be Del McCoury's next bass player. :eek:

Hey now. It ain't country if you ain't fightin and drinkin.

Now get on with it.

Hey now. It ain't country if you ain't fightin and drinkin.

Now get on with it.

Damn TOWED, bluegrass ain't country and country ain't bluegrass. Country is coming more out of the blues tradition and bluegrass more out of the Elizabethan ballad tradition.

A favorite thing I heard on WFUV a few years back, they were doing a segment on Appalachian death/murder ballads (of which TOM DOOLEY may be the most widely recognized) which teh DJ kept referring to as "snuffgrass".

Damn TOWED, bluegrass ain't country and country ain't bluegrass. Country is coming more out of the blues tradition and bluegrass more out of the Elizabethan ballad tradition.
Ok fine. They are both better when you are fightin and drinkin.

Thum's fighten words....

or alternately

everybody's gotta believe in something. I believe I'll have another drink...

Damn TOWED, bluegrass ain't country and country ain't bluegrass. Country is coming more out of the blues tradition and bluegrass more out of the Elizabethan ballad tradition.

A favorite thing I heard on WFUV a few years back, they were doing a segment on Appalachian death/murder ballads (of which TOM DOOLEY may be the most widely recognized) which teh DJ kept referring to as "snuffgrass".

Now the Tom Dooley (correct spelling Dula) saga took place about 2 humps over fom me along the Wilkes/Caldwell/Watauga county lines. I've played music in the field next to where Laura Foster (the victim) is buried.

In a review of a Del McCoury CD release a few years back, bluegrass was called "the white man's blues." Monroe was greatly influenced by Arnold Shultz, a black man who played blues-styled guitar and fiddle. Monroe and others claimed had Shultz been recorded those other noted blues guitarists would pale in comparison. I'm no expert though, but I'd say Monroe lived to hear him live and then heard the other blues recordings of the early 20th century.

Current country is coming from a toilet tradition.

Wasn't there one a them Alan Lomax types that did a comparative analysis of Appalachian music and postulated (and supported pretty well) its link to English and Welsh folk music, Elizabethan ballads etc.?

Oh yeah, here (http://www.springerlink.com/content/040534qw31k83565/).

So maybe the bluegrass thing is a melding of Appalachian music and blues?

Current country is coming from a toilet tradition.Yep. What a mess.


Thum's fighten words....

or alternately

everybody's gotta believe in something. I believe I'll have another drink...
"yer walkin on the fightin side of me"

"I think I'll just sit here and drank"

Neither sentiment from the Hag has any bluegrass content....move along now move along.

So maybe the bluegrass thing is a melding of Appalachian music and blues?

I would say that it's pretty much that exactly. For that improvisational factor, I think you've got to give a little nod to jazz, too. Sometimes I think of bluegrass as the bebop of country.

Take an act like the Louvin Brothers -- they're not straight down any alley at all, but are rolling in all of them (not much improv there, however.) Their tunes and performances are much beloved by bluegrass types; they played to country audiences on a country circuit; they sang that beautiful close harmony they learned in church, and which has so much high lonesome in it; and they did some tunes like "Knoxville Girl", a murder ballad transposed almost directly from old English tradition to Appalachia. The Louvins are standing at a southern crossroads where all that stuff mixes together somewhat.

Cool Blue Outlaws: Songs of Rogues, Rascals & Rapscallions (http://tinyurl.com/2965uq) on Sugar Hill is a great collection of tunes that shows all these influences, blues, narrative lyrics, straight up Monroe-style bluegrass, and especially the stuff Ed called "snuffgrass". I've always called that genre "country macabre".

Maybe more than bluegrass tunes about murder and such, I like a nice ghost song. My favorite is Don Humphries' "Eli Renfroe", which you can hear on Del McCoury's Classic Bluegrass (http://tinyurl.com/2e3uwt). When I sing it, I change the first lyrics a tiny little bit. With that tiny little alteration, the song starts:

Eli Renfroe killed his wife with a long sharp Bowie knife.
He cut her up and he laid her in the ground.

Suffice it to say that old Eli goes a-haunting when the moon is just right. The music and performances give it the appropriate chill, too.

[URL="http://tinyurl.com/2965uq"]I've always called that genre "country macabre".Who can resist the tender ballad: "Willow Garden?" Take your girl to the park, poison her, then stab her, then throw her in the river. Now, that's Bluegrass!

For that improvisational factor, I think you've got to give a little nod to jazz, too. Sometimes I think of bluegrass as the bebop of country.

I'm not sure I'm with you on that. Maybe out of the blues, but I just don't hear the same "harmonic framework of the composer is just a suggestion" kind of approach, most of the folks I've heard (with the exception of more contemporary players) hew pretty much to playing exactly that chord exactly evry time in every chorus and I don't hear much conversational back and forth. Call and response, yeah, but always directly in context. The thing about jazz improv to me, besides the 3 over 2 African diaspora thang, is the malleability of the harmonic structure.

Who can resist the tender ballad: "Willow Garden?" Take your girl to the park, poison her, then stab her, then throw her in the river. Now, that's Bluegrass!

Maybe MISS OTIS REGRETS is a bluegrass tune?

I'm not sure I'm with you on that. Maybe out of the blues, but I just don't hear the same "harmonic framework of the composer is just a suggestion" kind of approach, most of the folks I've heard (with the exception of more contemporary players) hew pretty much to playing exactly that chord exactly evry time in every chorus and I don't hear much conversational back and forth. Call and response, yeah, but always directly in context. The thing about jazz improv to me, besides the 3 over 2 African diaspora thang, is the malleability of the harmonic structure.

OK, blues, sure. I was thinking only of the step-up-and-take-a-solo angle. There's not much soloing to speak of in a Jimmy Rodgers tune, for example, but 15 or so years later you've got Bill Monroe featuring instrumental solos as a significant feature of his new music. I think Bill really brought that to country music and that's one of the things that distinguishes the bluegrass stream from mainstream country. Question is, where did that instrumentalist, admiring-of-the-virtuoso stream come from, then? I say the influence is from the other dominant pop music of the time (i.e., not country music): swing jazz.

An afterthought: 'Course, all that old Celtic music and Appalachian music had a bunch of instrumental canoodling and such. Best not to go too far with the jazz thing. Point is, Bill was screwing around with forms and stuff in the mid-40's and probably the whole of American music got in his ears one way or the other...

Maybe MISS OTIS REGRETS is a bluegrass tune?

Could be, given the right treatment by the right artist. Del McCoury has been one to cross pollenate genres, draggng this song and then that song from varying sources and bringing them to the bluegrass community. Have you heard the englishman Richard Thompson's song "1952 Vincent Black Lightning" by Del McCoury? I've also heard him cover Frank Sinatra.

If I could put a finger on it (and I know I can't) I'd say bluegrass is blues, celtic, swing, jazz, Elizabethian and many of the songs were kept as oral vehicles to share stories amongst a poorly educated society (which included most all people centuries ago). Many of them could neither read or write, but they could tell a story that had been put to music.

One major difference between jazz and bluegrass is the focus of the song. At times, the lyrics are just something to fill the gaps between breaks, but then sometimes the music backs way off so that the story shines through and is the complete focus of the presentation. Improv connects bluegrass & jazz, but it's much more controlled in the bluegrass category.

I'm not going to say what is and what ain't bluegrass, because there's enough to go around to please everybody, whether they hold onto traditional dressings (Monroe with Flatt & Scruggs) or progressive (Chris Thiele).

Funny how this thread seems to be changing, ain't it?

Who can resist the tender ballad: "Willow Garden?" Take your girl to the park, poison her, then stab her, then throw her in the river. Now, that's Bluegrass!

Absolutely! Same kinda story as "Knoxville Girl", same roots, I'm sure. Here's (http://tinyurl.com/238r5y) Wikipedia on the direct links of that tune back to ol' Blighty.

An afterthought: 'Course, all that old Celtic music and Appalachian music had a bunch of instrumental canoodling and such. Best not to go too far with the jazz thing. Point is, Bill was screwing around with forms and stuff in the mid-40's and probably the whole of American music got in his ears one way or the other...

If you want to get into Bill Monroe's head get a copy and read this (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0316803812/ref=dp_olp_2/002-5680683-5586453).

I've been through it about 6 times now and I'll read it again.

Isn't that book something? One of the best musical biographies I've ever read...

Now isn't this nice. Once the catharsis has passed y'all are in a much better mood.

PS - Keep the info flowing, I'm a sponge for this S**T!

...please allow one from 'that other place' to defend 'The Ed'.

To those who take exception to Mr. Fuqua's treatment...quiesce your scat.
Even we trailertrash over on the BG side acknowledge the amazing worth of Fred Euchre...and we can't even spell his damned name without Vanna White's help.

He cares, he helps, he keeps the hoi polloi in line.
Once you understand that, you'll see that, ultimately, we're all bozos on this bass playing bus...hence his puckish pointedness.

He also knows s**t from Shinola.




So there.




Aaah, crap...time for me to go. The last bus to The Other Side is about to leave, and fIeLdY is driving...

Hey? What happen to the peein match? I wanted to see which side could whizz the furthest? After all that is what the original question was about????????? Right??????????

I hear a lot of Javanese Gamelan music in Bluegrass, particularly from the Borobudur period, ca. 800 A.D., twinged with a hint of Papua rainforest tradition.

:)

I ain't no scholar but I've played jazz for years and just recently started getting back into bluegrass (last 2 or 3 years)... and from my jazz perspective I have secretly also thought of it as "the jazz of country music"... strictly in the sense of instrumentals, fast showy solos, generally skilled players.... but I won't go any further than that. It's folk music after all, and jazz ain't. Jazz is the jazz of jazz. It's the original melting pot of music. And wasn't the word jazz once synonymous with feces, or something to that effect?