im not doing too great in my music theory class guys. :hmm:

we are doing key signatures, triads, scales and intervals right now

so if you guys could link me to a site that could help me pratice, or even just make up questions to ask me, please help me out. Also, if you have any tips for helping me grasp this stuff more easily, let me know. Thanks a lot, Paul.

www.musictheory.net

Great stuff there, and its free.

that helped a little, but it doesnt really quiz me at all, just shows me concepts i understand already.

i just want to pratice the concepts i know, get me? like...to put them to the test, if you will.

You need to quiz yourself that is how I drilled in this stuff. I used quiz myself driving to school and other places. I would spell all the triads and do them in the order of the Circle of Fifths. I would repeat the Circle of Fifths and ask myself the related key signature. For intervals I would use the bass in my head and see a major scale fingering and work out the intervals between the root. Also sing the major scale and then sing sequences and intervals. If I wasn't sure of the pitches I would sing simple nursury rhymes or songs I knew the intervals of to check myself. Funny how we can screw sing intervals if asked to do it, but can remember them when in context of a song.

I would make up drills like above on what ever I needed to work on and use anytime that normally would be wasted as time to drill myself. Forcing myself to have figure out the answers the stuff really sticks. I also came of with ways to check myself like trouble spelling a scale, well I could spell the Maj7 chord of the scale, so there were half the notes. Reverse it can't spell the chord but know the scale okay think the scale and drop every other note. Circle of Fifths I would use the bass in my head and "see" the V down to I and figure out the answer.

There are quizes and practice test around, but just drill your self I think works best. Also the best way to learn something is to teach it. Find someone who is trying to learn this stuff and teach it to them or just talk about it and explain this stuff to them. If you can explain it you know it. Also sometimes in explaining it you discover a new way to look at things that helps you too.

Quiz thyself grasshopper!

lol, thank you much Doc.

Here is one for ya:

What is the inversion of a Major4th? :ninja:

Here is one for ya:

What is the inversion of a Major4th? :ninja:

Not sure where you are going with that one. Up a 4th becomes down a 5th, up a 3rd down a 6th, up a 7th down a 2nd are the intervals flipped?

Also note to OP one of the things you learn from drilling, notice how all the intervals up and down add up to 9. One of those tricks you can use to check yourself with. Music is math.

Or PocketGroove82 thinking Tritone and the notes repeat?

I am kinda surprised at why people do not stress learning scale degrees..I feel it's probably the most important aspect of learning scales..learning degrees will help you in construction chords, doing chord progressions etc etc a breeze..

I wrote a simple microsoft excel program to quiz me on scale degrees.. its quite simple..the first column is all the scales, and the second column is all the degrees..

just click the button and a random scale appears below , with three random degrees. you have to name those 3 degrees of that scale.

for e.g., when you click the button and get

C II IV VII

you need to name the second, fourth and seventh degrees of C scale (which would be D, F and B)

you can start simple by having just one scale in the first column. delete all the scales and just put the scale you want. You can do the same with degrees .like put only C in first column, and II, IV in second column. once you have mastered this add more degrees. Once you have all the degrees of a scale, add the second scale..then a third..

its quite frustrating in the beginning, but believe me, if you do this for about half an hour a day for 3 weeks, i can BET you will be a pro..

once you have the degrees, then chords is a breeze (major chord?? no problem! that'd be I, III and V notes of the scale.. for F# scale that would be F#, A# and C#! )

here's the file

http://www.mediafire.com/?5mmwww9cc4c

NOTE: If you get a message box in the beginning saying "do you want to run macros?" click on enable macros..i have a macro in there to generate random numbers..dont worry its safe..i wont hack your computer and steal all your porn!)

-gooli

Practica Musica is the program that my AP Music Theory class used. It's really a great program for aural as well as written exercises.

OK, here's a question...name three types of chords that go well with Aeolian mode.

explain the following symbol:

15va-----------

Here is one for ya:

What is the inversion of a Major4th? :ninja:



Ok..here is the answer.

It's a trick question. :ninja:

You can't have a major 4th, and if you say major 4th (or 5th) to your teacher, he will probably cringe! 4ths and 5ths can be Perfect/Diminished/Augmented, but you won't be coming across any major or minor 4ths or 5th, ever. :ninja:

Ok..here is the answer.

It's a trick question. :ninja:

You can't have a major 4th, and if you say major 4th (or 5th) to your teacher, he will probably cringe! 4ths and 5ths can be Perfect/Diminished/Augmented, but you won't be coming across any major or minor 4ths or 5th, ever. :ninja:

I was waiting for you to do that.

Nice one, even though he answered with the right idea, he was still wrong.

I give my students that "trick" question all the time.

Well Done!

lol...i hear ya rob.
I had a teacher who made students run to the open window in the back of the classroom and yell,
"THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A MAJOR 5TH!"...any time they accidentally said it during a class period. haha.

Ok I got one... Name the intervals of an Am6 chord.

Okay want to go that way...

Write out an ascending and decending A Melodic Minor scale.

Write out an F# harmonic minor scale.

What note is a minor 7th above Db?

Okay off topic, but fun... Who was first composer to write bass part that required a low C and the 5-string bass was created to handle it?

Okay want to go that way...

Write out an ascending and decending A Melodic Minor scale.

Write out an F# harmonic minor scale.

What note is a minor 7th above Db?

Okay off topic, but fun... Who was first composer to write bass part that required a low C and the 5-string bass was created to handle it?

Great questions, I wish he was online (oh well) I'll check his answers later, but the trivia question is interesting, I think I know, but I'd be guessing. Can I PM you my guess?

So this dude blows us off without answering the questions? Whut up wid dat?

Write out an ascending and decending A Melodic Minor scale.


That one could have two correct answers, since the descending is often the same as the ascending in modern music.

I assume that, though, you mean in "traditional" harmony.

Who was first composer to write bass part that required a low C and the 5-string bass was created to handle it?

Frankie Goes To Hollywood?

That one could have two correct answers, since the descending is often the same as the ascending in modern music.

I assume that, though, you mean in "traditional" harmony.

Exactly, most learn from a Jazz/Improv POV and ascend and descend the same.

Frankie Goes To Hollywood?

A little bit earlier... Beethoven wrote low-C in one of his symphonies and since there was no such thing at the C-extenders like many DB players today use luthers of the day built 5-string DB's.

The first 5-string bass I remember was Fender had a really strange one in the late 60's, early 70's. I just remember how strange the neck looked. It looked short scale and neck was really wide at body. I don't think I ever saw one in use.

A little bit earlier... Beethoven wrote low-C in one of his symphonies and since there was no such thing at the C-extenders like many DB players today use luthers of the day built 5-string DB's.

The first 5-string bass I remember was Fender had a really strange one in the late 60's, early 70's. I just remember how strange the neck looked. It looked short scale and neck was really wide at body. I don't think I ever saw one in use.

Yay, I was right about Beethoven, as for the Fender Bass V, it actually had a higher string added (EADGC) Jamerson had one, that's the first I'd ever heard of it.

I also read that Anthony Jackson after hearing an organ bass part by Jimmy Smith, had Carl Thompson build him a bass with a B string, at a time when most thought it couldn't be done.

A little bit earlier... Beethoven wrote low-C in one of his symphonies and since there was no such thing at the C-extenders like many DB players today use luthers of the day built 5-string DB's.


In fact, the Double Bass was really not standardized as a 4-string until the late 19th century. 5-strings were very common in Germany, 3-strings in Italy & France (think Bottesini), and 4-strings in England. The tailpieces and tuners on many old basses have been plugged and re-drilled in years past to make the transition.

BTW, Bottesini thought that adding the fourth string was a big mistake...that it destroyed the tone by stifling the vibration of the instrument.

Yay, I was right about Beethoven, as for the Fender Bass V, it actually had a higher string added (EADGC) Jamerson had one, that's the first I'd ever heard of it.

I also read that Anthony Jackson after hearing an organ bass part by Jimmy Smith, had Carl Thompson build him a bass with a B string, at a time when most thought it couldn't be done.

I can't remember if it was Anthony or Jimmy "Flim" Johnson who I first saw with more that 4 strings on a BG. Jimmy's Alembic 5-string was supposedly the first 5-string Alembic ever made. Then AJ I used to see with Ritenour all the time at the Baked Potato back in the 70's. Great time in music.

Five sharps--what is the key?

I can't remember if it was Anthony or Jimmy "Flim" Johnson who I first saw with more that 4 strings on a BG. Jimmy's Alembic 5-string was supposedly the first 5-string Alembic ever made. Then AJ I used to see with Ritenour all the time at the Baked Potato back in the 70's. Great time in music.

Not sure, but if it helps, CT delivered AJ his bass in early 1975, so the story goes. The book I read credits AJ for the first (with a B) and says Alembic delivered "one" of the first basses with a B to Jimmy.

Five sharps--what is the key?

sorry for the delay dudes, i wasnt online for a few days and BOOM, you pounded me with questions. let me answer this one first.

(im going to write out my thoughts too)

FCGDAEB

C D E F G>>1 #

G A B C D>>2 #

D E F G A>>3 #

A B C D E>>4 #

E F G A B>>5 #

B Maj has 5 sharps.

Okay want to go that way...

Write out an ascending and decending A Melodic Minor scale.

Write out an F# harmonic minor scale.

What note is a minor 7th above Db?

Okay off topic, but fun... Who was first composer to write bass part that required a low C and the 5-string bass was created to handle it?

Another good one here, lemme try this on for size.

A Melodic Minor Scale

A, B, C, D, E, F#, G#, A, G, F, E, D, C, B, A

WOO GO ME...I hope that is right.


F# Harmonic Minor

F#, G#, A, B, C#, D, F, F#

Minor 7th above Dd

a minor 7th...hmm...C? is it C? I think its C....

explain the following symbol:

15va-----------

can i have the answer to this one and why? i have never seen that before.

OK, here's a question...name three types of chords that go well with Aeolian mode.

i dont know this one either. please tell me the answer and why.

Another good one here, lemme try this on for size.

A Melodic Minor Scale

A, B, C, D, E, F#, G#, A, G, F, E, D, C, B, A

WOO GO ME...I hope that is right.


F# Harmonic Minor

F#, G#, A, B, C#, D, F, F#

Minor 7th above Dd

a minor 7th...hmm...C? is it C? I think its C....


Double check answers 2 & 3....1 is right (in classical)

*tip, I don't know how to type a "natural" symbol here....but if you are writing the A- scale on paper, it is a good habit to mark the second F and G with a natural symbol, (cancelling out the #'s)

can i have the answer to this one and why? i have never seen that before.

15va-----------------

Play the passage below this symbol 2 octaves higher than written (or 15 notes)

One octave above looks like this 8va-------------------

This symbol can also be used to lower,...by putting the symbol below the passage.

Double check answers 2 & 3....1 is right (in classical)

Hmm lets see here

F# Harmonic Minor...

F#, G#, A, B, C#, D, F, F#

I am not sure what i did wrong here. I thought that the 7th note was raised.....and i did raise it from the E to the F....what did i do wrong?


Minor 7th above Dd

that should be Cd. correct?

Hmm lets see here

F# Harmonic Minor...

F#, G#, A, B, C#, D, F, F#

I am not sure what i did wrong here. I thought that the 7th note was raised.....and i did raise it from the E to the F....what did i do wrong?


Minor 7th above Dd

that should be Cd. correct?

Hint on the F#...you can't have F then F#...(when is an F not an F?) - scales need consecutive letters abcdefg etc...

2nd Question....if you mean Cb, you are right

yes i ment Cb, my bad....the F# thing...so if i just changed the name to E# that would be the answer than.

yes i ment Cb, my bad....the F# thing...so if i just changed the name to E# that would be the answer than.

Yes, you need to sharpen the E to E#

your original answer would have sounded the same but was written wrong...now you are right.

woo!


gimme some more questions!

Name the relative minors for the following majors:

D........A........Eb.......B........C#

Name the relative majors for the following minors:

G#-..........F-...........Bb-............E-.........D#-............

Name the chromatic semitone above the following notes:

C.........D#.......Bb.......A.........E#

Name the diatonic semitone below the following notes:

B.........C#.......Ab........F#........Db

woo!


gimme some more questions!

Just keep in mind in test like these they are going for trick questions. What out for enharmonics. A basic 7 note scale need to use all the letter names. In traditional harmony Melodic Minor ascends and descends differently. Spelling triads again watch your enharmonics the want the 3rd and 5th of scale so watch out for those.

Know how scales are constructed so can check yourself on key signatures. Practice the basic scales on your bass and focus on the fingerings. Many times I would check myself by using the bass in my head to "see" the notes. IMO knowing how to find the answer or check yourself is more important than just being able to rattle off the spellings. Its all abstract logic knowing how to use one piece of info to find another. Your instrument has all the answers and if its not around you have to learn to use the instrument in your head the same way.

See it, Feel it, Make it your own! :ninja:

Name the relative minors for the following majors:

D........A........Eb.......B........C#

Name the relative majors for the following minors:

G#-..........F-...........Bb-............E-.........D#-............

Here goes nothing

Relative Minors

D - D E F# G A B

A - A B C# D E F#

Eb - Eb F G Ab Bb C

B - B C# D# E F# G#

C# - C# D# E# F# G# A#


Relative Majors

G# - G# A# B C# D# E F#

F - F G Ab Bb C D Eb

Bb - Bb C Db Eb F Gb Ab

E - E F# G A B C D

D# - D# E# F# G# A# B C#


How did I do?

Here goes nothing

Relative Minors

D - D E F# G A B

A - A B C# D E F#

Eb - Eb F G Ab Bb C

B - B C# D# E F# G#

C# - C# D# E# F# G# A#


Relative Majors

G# - G# A# B C# D# E F#

F - F G Ab Bb C D Eb

Bb - Bb C Db Eb F Gb Ab

E - E F# G A B C D

D# - D# E# F# G# A# B C#


How did I do?

Relative minors are right, Relative majors are wrong...once you get them I'll show you a quick trick.

damn...hmm i worked hard to get the wrong answer too..lol, i picked up my acoustic guitar and played through the scale till i thought that the major started there...can you tell me how to do one of them, than ill do the rest?

damn...hmm i worked hard to get the wrong answer too..lol, i picked up my acoustic guitar and played through the scale till i thought that the major started there...can you tell me how to do one of them, than ill do the rest?

G#- / B

*hint: how many semitones apart (going up) are they?

C / A-

same hint - opposite direction

i dont know this one either. please tell me the answer and why.
The question was 3 chords that go with Aeolian mode.

Minors, because of the minor third interval
6th chords and minor 7th chords are two others. Minor 7ths work because of the minor 3rd and flat 7th, and 6th chords work because they're basically minor 7th chords with the 3rd as the root note.

they are 3 half steps... so three half steps down from the Minor Root gives you the relative major?

damn...hmm i worked hard to get the wrong answer too..lol, i picked up my acoustic guitar and played through the scale till i thought that the major started there...can you tell me how to do one of them, than ill do the rest?

Relatve minor think of root of scale and down the scale to relative minor. 8, 7, 6.

Play the major scale and sing the interval names as you play... 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. Get to where you note only see the fingerng pattern, but the scale degrees as well.

Relative minor reverse the processs above. Think of being on the 6th degree and see, sing, play up 6, 7, 8.

This is where the drilling I was talking about come in. Eventually you see aw a minor 3th down from root is relative minor. A minor 3rd up is the relative major.

Again play your scales, but sing along and sing the scale degrees. Get to point you think major scale and can look at your neck, note as a bunch of dots in a fingering diagram, but see the scale degrees. Look around your class when teacher is asking questions and note how many students are moving their fingers like the are on their instrument figuring the stuff out.

btw, ty for all the help.

so the relative major of C minor is D# right?

they are 3 half steps... so three half steps down from the Minor Root gives you the relative major?

You've got it, that's the easy formula...but make sure you understand why.

(Major) down 3 semitones = (Minor)

(Minor) up 3 semitones = (Major)


Both will share the same key signature.

mwahahahaha i feel like i just aquired a super power with that info. any other tricks and tips you can tell me guys? including intervals or triads or anything?

so the relative major of C minor is D# right?


almost.... C- uses flats so relative minor is Eb

also remember C- is also B# minor which uses sharps

So C- / Eb

or

B#- / D#

(both sound exactly the same - but are written different)

btw, ty for all the help.

No problem, happy to help....great thread for others too, so everybody wins.

What is the interval between the Perfect 4th and Perfect 5th?


(example C to F# .... or.... C to Gb)

"you take a block from the bottom and you put it on top"

eg. C major

C/E/G (root) E/G/C (1st Inversion) G/C/E (2nd Inversion) C/E/G (root)....goes infinitly like this.

*just take the bottom note and put it on top.

works reversed too (but don't try Jenga that way :D )

What is the interval between the Perfect 4th and Perfect 5th?


(example C to F# .... or.... C to Gb)

Answer Docbop's favorite interval.

"you take a block from the bottom and you put it on top"

eg. C major

C/E/G (root) E/G/C (1st Inversion) G/C/E (2nd Inversion) C/E/G (root)....goes infinitly like this.

*just take the bottom note and put it on top.

works reversed too (but don't try Jenga that way :D )

You take the little snowman on the staff and RIP HIS BOTTOM OFF and place it on the staff at the next place of the same name. So rip the C off and move up. :eek:

Want 2nd inversion start ripping at the snow man again. Drag the E up. Oh no the snowman's bottom is back together, but his head is still missing. :help:

I see the head rip it off the staff and put it back on the snowman. All is well again. :)

That's how they teach theory in the Death Metal schools. :rollno:

What is the interval between the Perfect 4th and Perfect 5th?


(example C to F# .... or.... C to Gb)

thats umm...the "claypool interval"

augmented 4th?

bump bump..tell me the answer please...am i right?

thats umm...the "claypool interval"

augmented 4th?

Sorry been busy all day. C to F# is a augmented 4th also called a tritone. It is also the interval that gives a dominant chord it's personality.

Why is it called a tritone?

C to F# is an augmented 4th, RIGHT!

what is it called when it's C to Gb?

(cdefg) obviously not a 4th right?

C to F# is an augmented 4th, RIGHT!

what is it called when it's C to Gb?

(cdefg) obviously not a 4th right?

Yeah, its called a diminished 5th. When you're dealing with the perfect intervals of the unison, 4, 5 and octave, flattening it a semitone makes it a diminished interval and sharpening it makes it an augmented inteval.

With this in mind, what would you call the distance between B and Fb? (hint, its not a perfect fourth!)

Here is one for ya:

What is the inversion of a Major4th? :ninja:


A Major 4th?

Do you mean a Perfect fourth?

Major fourth isn't a theory term.

The inversion would be a perfect fifth, which is why it cannot be a major fourth.

If it were a Major 4th, the inversion would have to be a minor 5th, which is another term that doesn't exist.

I suppose technically a minor 5th could be considered enharmonic to a diminished 6th, but it would never be referred to as a minor 5th.

I suppose technically a minor 5th could be considered enharmonic to a diminished 6th, but it would never be referred to as a minor 5th.

How do you figure that? A diminished sixth would be enharmonic to a perfect fifth.

On perfect 4ths and 5ths, it is the general paradigm that you can't call the 4th and 5th degree of the Major scale and thier enharmonic counterparts a Major 4th or 5th, respectively. Technically though there are a few things to consider. Firstly that there is a discrepency of 2 cents between a just intonation 5th (3:2) and an equal temperament 5th. This makes one or the other an almost perfect 5th, and even though this is a small and usually unrecognisable difference it is a difference all the same. Since the ratio of 3:2 is the one based on the Pythagorean division, I would say that the just intonation ratio is the perfect 5th. So the interval of 3 and 1/2 tones we play is actually more like an almost perfect 5th. Since we name every other interval in relation to the major scale anyway, and the same reasoning goes for the 4th, I would find it hard to see how it could be completely incorrect to say that either of these intervals can be called major 4th or major 5th. That is not to say that I would tell anyone to write either as such on their theory paper, since the general paradigm is such that this would be marked as incorrect. Just something to think about.

How do you figure that? A diminished sixth would be enharmonic to a perfect fifth.

Actually a diminshed 6th is enharmonic to an augmented 5th

Actually a diminshed 6th is enharmonic to an augmented 5th

No, a minor sixth is enharmonic to an augmented 5th, thus the whole dom7(b13)/+7 equivelency. But I see your whole point with the just intonation thing, I just have always thought in equal temperment.

You are right, my bad

this should be a sticky thread. like, the person below you answers a music theory question you ask. that would be good stuff.

subscribed.