i was at a music singaround session today and people there had instruments and everyone joins in (i was just there to watch)

and people said things like 'this songs in C if anyone wants to play along'

so if i wanted to bring an acoustic bass along and paly along how would i know what to play if say, the song was in C?


any advise would be helpful.

Thanks.
Bass_Junkie.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125519

It's all there, just take your time reading it.

ok, will read through it tomorrow when i can function properly.


Thanks very much.
Bass_Junkie.

i was at a music singaround session today and people there had instruments and everyone joins in (i was just there to watch)

and people said things like 'this songs in C if anyone wants to play along'

so if i wanted to bring an acoustic bass along and paly along how would i know what to play if say, the song was in C?


any advise would be helpful.

Thanks.
Bass_Junkie.

If you know the key then you know the scale to start with.
Then you have to think what are the chords of that scale harmonized.
Next how are those chords spelled, that gives you basic notes to use.
Then you have use all the songs you have ever played as a reference and your ear. So when you hear them change chords you use that knowledge to hear where they went or make a educated guess. If wrong then your years of playing have to kick in to cover your mistake and trying another chord.

Now if you don't know what I'm talking about then go study the thread Jazz Ad gave you.

I would say get some Blues CD's and start playing along and learn to hear those chord changes. Most Blues are I IV V progressions learn to hear those changes they are in just about every tune. Borrow some Blues CD's and put them on and play along, see if you can develop a feel for the chord changes when they are coming and to where they will probably go. Playing Blues is a great music education in many ways.

so the chords they use are all going to be notes used in the C scale?

If you know the key then you know the scale to start with.
Then you have to think what are the chords of that scale harmonized.
Next how are those chords spelled, that gives you basic notes to use.
Then you have use all the songs you have ever played as a reference and your ear. So when you hear them change chords you use that knowledge to hear where they went or make a educated guess. If wrong then your years of playing have to kick in to cover your mistake and trying another chord.

Now if you don't know what I'm talking about then go study the thread Jazz Ad gave you.

I would say get some Blues CD's and start playing along and learn to hear those chord changes. Most Blues are I IV V progressions learn to hear those changes they are in just about every tune. Borrow some Blues CD's and put them on and play along, see if you can develop a feel for the chord changes when they are coming and to where they will probably go. Playing Blues is a great music education in many ways.


Any suggestions for Blues CD's....I'm struggling with a blues funk that is just E and A. Too simple... i can't settle on a line.

I hate it when someone says "this song is in C".

i want to beat them over the head and scream "C WHAT?!?!?! MAJOR OR MINOR YOU STUPID PERSON?!?!".

Sorry, its a pet peeve of mine.:rollno:

C implies C major.
Otherwise it would be C minor.

so am i right? if the song is in C (major :p) then the chords they would be playing would be from the notes of the C (major) scale?


Thanks.

Si! Uh, Yes!

Please, don't take what I'm about to write as a slam to anyone, but I am surprised at how many people play bass or guitar and have no idea what it is that they are playing. They just know where to place their fingers at what time and that's it. Sure, we could argue "what's the difference?" if the end result is music. But I'm looking at it from the perspective that it must be very difficult and time consuming to learn new material or join in a jam session if you don't know what a stated key means. I'm no big music theorist and I'm not really good at sight reading, but when someone says, for example, "1-4-5 in A" that tells me a lot and I can get right into the song.

Again, don't anyone get insulted. I just think everyone into playing music can make things far better for themselves if they learn even just the basics of music theory.

C implies C major.
Otherwise it would be C minor.

Most of the notes will fall in the C-major scale, but I'd highly doubt anyone would stick with only those notes. Just playing in one scale gets boring.

Learn common chord progressions in music (as PaulMac stated 1-4-5 in A...think the song "wild thing"...I think it's in A at least...but it's definitely the chord progression), and play chords on bass in each of those positions. Common chord progressions can easily be figured out by all those rock song root notes you've been playing for so long.

Now those chords that guitarists use are not useless on bass...you just don't strum them outright as they do, you can play around within the chord. When you learn chords, and their associated names (like C, Cmaj7, Cm7, etc.) it will make improvising with more than just root notes a little easier...and actually make sense to your mind and your ear. Plus it's a very easy way to play along with sheet music that has the chord names printed above each measure.

But I do agree with many on here...just stating the key of "whatever" is not a lot to get started off of in that setting, but once you learn the basic chord progressions like 1-4-5, 2-5-1, etc. you can usually figure out what's going on fairly easily wether they tell you or not.

Si! Uh, Yes!

Please, don't take what I'm about to write as a slam to anyone, but I am surprised at how many people play bass or guitar and have no idea what it is that they are playing. They just know where to place their fingers at what time and that's it. Sure, we could argue "what's the difference?" if the end result is music. But I'm looking at it from the perspective that it must be very difficult and time consuming to learn new material or join in a jam session if you don't know what a stated key means. I'm no big music theorist and I'm not really good at sight reading, but when someone says, for example, "1-4-5 in A" that tells me a lot and I can get right into the song.

Again, don't anyone get insulted. I just think everyone into playing music can make things far better for themselves if they learn even just the basics of music theory.

i understand 1-4-5 in A

its just i used to play mainly based on what chords where coming and someone had mentioned playin in key to me before but i forgot to look it up, i never really had the need for it before.

but they werent saying the chords they were just saying the key so i was just wondering what sort of thing i was supposed to be doing as a bassist.

i'm no major theorist myself but i know a resonable ammount but only really what i've needed (my bass teacher was like that, he didnt learn slap bass cause he never needed it)


i understand what i can do to play along with those guys at the session now.




Thanks for the help everyone!

Bass_Junkie.

Bass Junkie,

It sounds like you have a great opportunity there to play in open jam sessions. Putting yourself in that situtation is a great way to push what you can play. Thinking and playing "on the fly" let's you know right away where your strengths and weaknesses lie. Take those experiences to direct your practice drills and routines. You'll be amazed at how much you will advance.

so the 1 4 5 chord progression is a blues progression right? i never understood this until right now becouse of yous actually saying 1 4 5 instead of roman numerals which just confused me lol, so if someone sed they wanted to jam in A using the blues chord progression (is that the right way of saying it all) that would be 1(A) 4(D) 5(E) and it would be in major right? i've played this chord progression alot without knowing what it is, i just heard that sound in alot of old rock n roll, but never new it was a blues chord progression

so the 1 4 5 chord progression is a blues progression right? i never understood this until right now becouse of yous actually saying 1 4 5 instead of roman numerals which just confused me lol, so if someone sed they wanted to jam in A using the blues chord progression (is that the right way of saying it all) that would be 1(A) 4(D) 5(E) and it would be in major right? i've played this chord progression alot without knowing what it is, i just heard that sound in alot of old rock n roll, but never new it was a blues chord progression

Yes, but in blues the "1 chord" and the "4 chord" both have minor (flatted) sevenths on those major chords, as opposed to major sevenths on the Ionian (1) or Lydian (4) , the naturally occuring modes in a major key.

On a three chord blues, you would treat each of the three chords with a mixolydian scale...i.e.. 1 mix, 4 mix, 5 mix.

Okay, now that you know the Roman numerals, let's go back to I7, IV7, V7, okay?

Hope this helps yer jammin!

so the 1 4 5 chord progression is a blues progression right? i never understood this until right now becouse of yous actually saying 1 4 5 instead of roman numerals which just confused me lol, so if someone sed they wanted to jam in A using the blues chord progression (is that the right way of saying it all) that would be 1(A) 4(D) 5(E) and it would be in major right? i've played this chord progression alot without knowing what it is, i just heard that sound in alot of old rock n roll, but never new it was a blues chord progression

1 - 4 - 5 is a REALLY common progression. Many times you'll hear it 1 - 4 - 5 - 4 as well.

The "blues" progression is commonly called the 12 bar blues. 4 bars of the 1, 2 of the 4, 2 of the 1, then 1 of the 5, 1 of the 4 and 2 of the 1, then back to the beginning. The last 4 bars are changed up quite often, so you may hear 5 - 6 - 1 - 1, or 5 - 5 - 1 - 1, etc.

I can think of 6-7 non blues songs that I know off the top of my head that are 12 bar blues.

Any suggestions for Blues CD's....

Buddy Guy : Taj Mahal : Johnny Winter : John Mayall : Peter Greene : Eric Clapton : Roomful of Blues.

1 - 4 - 5 is a REALLY common progression. Many times you'll hear it 1 - 4 - 5 - 4 as well.

The "blues" progression is commonly called the 12 bar blues. 4 bars of the 1, 2 of the 4, 2 of the 1, then 1 of the 5, 1 of the 4 and 2 of the 1, then back to the beginning. The last 4 bars are changed up quite often, so you may hear 5 - 6 - 1 - 1, or 5 - 5 - 1 - 1, etc.

I can think of 6-7 non blues songs that I know off the top of my head that are 12 bar blues.

yes, even rocket queen by guns n roses is based largely on the twelve bar blues.

so i'm assuming it doesnt have to be 1 4 5 or 1 4 5 4 and being played in a blues style, can there be as many chord progressions as you want, could there just be 1 4?

so i'm assuming it doesnt have to be 1 4 5 or 1 4 5 4 and being played in a blues style, can there be as many chord progressions as you want, could there just be 1 4?

yes, it would be quite a boring one but yes, or it could be 145 145 145 or 151545 or any combination as far as my knowledge goes.

C implies C major.
Otherwise it would be C minor.

I don't know about that. Many Blues progressions are based on dominant chords. that wouldn't imply any key centre (though you could play around with the ionian and aeolian scales of that dominant chord).

When you know enough scale and chord theory you can pick up keys on the fly, but it would be nice to have someone tell me more than just what the root note is for a change.

If you don't just want to know the root notes, after you find out the key, ask what the chords are. C major includes all those variants on the C chord... so it could have Cadd9, C7, C6, Csus4, or whatever, but the KEY will still be C major.

When I play off sheet music, I like to follow the chords written in for the guitarist and make my own bassline, or at least accent some of the notes he's playing to bring out those licks.

BTW - I think the only time you would actually be using the "Aeolian mode" is when you are playing in the relative minor scale... otherwise, it would just be the "minor scale". :-p

Many blues progressions are also based on I-IV-V... so basically, once you find that root, you're in business. Depending on the meter, you may have to use your ear to discern which chord is I (accents :-)), but that's only if each chord is played for an equal number of bars - not (usually) the case in straight-up 12-bar blues. :-)

If you don't just want to know the root notes, after you find out the key, ask what the chords are. C major includes all those variants on the C chord... so it could have Cadd9, C7, C6, Csus4, or whatever, but the KEY will still be C major.

When I play off sheet music, I like to follow the chords written in for the guitarist and make my own bassline, or at least accent some of the notes he's playing to bring out those licks.

BTW - I think the only time you would actually be using the "Aeolian mode" is when you are playing in the relative minor scale... otherwise, it would just be the "minor scale". :-p

Many blues progressions are also based on I-IV-V... so basically, once you find that root, you're in business. Depending on the meter, you may have to use your ear to discern which chord is I (accents :-)), but that's only if each chord is played for an equal number of bars - not (usually) the case in straight-up 12-bar blues. :-)

If all they say is "Its in the key of C", then it could be EITHER C Major OR C Minor.

For all i know it could be 3 dominant 7th chords, 3 minor chords or any other combination of 3 chords.

the point is; i would like be told what sort of C scale it is from time to time.

If all they say is "Its in the key of C", then it could be EITHER C Major OR C Minor.

For all i know it could be 3 dominant 7th chords, 3 minor chords or any other combination of 3 chords.

the point is; i would like be told what sort of C scale it is from time to time.

sorry but i agree with jazz ad.

if they say C it would mean C major unless otherwise stated.

sorry but i agree with jazz ad.

if they say C it would mean C major unless otherwise stated.

+1

sorry but i agree with jazz ad.

if they say C it would mean C major unless otherwise stated.

While that's the theory, in practice, most people jam over dominant chords. So when someone says it's in C, the "1 chord" is usually C7... most likely C7#9. Most jam sessions aren't filled theory nuts. They know the pentatonic/blues scale and that's about it.

So when someone says it's in C, the "1 chord" is usually C7... most likely C7#9. Most jam sessions aren't filled theory nuts. They know the pentatonic/blues scale and that's about it.

Say what! Most jam sessons aren't tributes to Jimi Hendrix. I was kind of with you until you said "usually C7 #9".

When jumping into a jam sesson and they called C then play it safe with some roots fifths and major pentatonic untli your ear picks up on whats going on, those are all safe notes. Once you hear few bars and know the chord(s) and groove settles in then you can start to expand on your line. If you don't recognize the chord(s) remember less is best so stick to roots/fifths and go for rhythmic patterns. Be a bass player first and lay down a solid groove for others to play over and you will be invited to a lot more jams.

Even if soloing is your thing if playing with new people keep your solos short and sweet. Better to have them smilin' and say you should of played more than have them look at you like the guitar player who doesn't know when to stop. Always leave people wanting more.

Not "usually", but "most likely". I added that part in jest because many jam sessions are filled with guitarists playing minor pentatonics over dominant chords.

Anyway, you should have at least a quarter note time to identify (by ear) whether it is in major or minor. Also, if it is a blues jam, the root, 5th and flatted 7th are safe notes to play over both alternatives. If the chord is a C7#9 you're pretty safe with both an Eb and a E.

Keep it simple, and you'll be fine.

Not "usually", but "most likely". I added that part in jest because many jam sessions are filled with guitarists playing minor pentatonics over dominant chords.

Playing a note in a solo doesn't mean the chord has that note. Guitarist love minor pents because the b3 is a Blue note. The other Blue note is the b5 are you playing b5's in your bass line because a soloist threw one in? Call it a b3 instead would you play mi7 now? They are color tones, passing tones for a soloist. You need to listen to what the chordal instruments are doing to make your decisions. If you play all the colors a soloist is play many will no like your playing. In doing so you are taking their outside or tension tones and making them inside by matching them, you've taken the edge out of their playing. This happens a lot with bass and piano players and they have to build relationship understanding/second guessing when to follow there sub's and altered tone and when to stick to the original harmony.

Soloist can imply lots of different chords in their line, but usually they are impling subsitutions and reharmonizations and in those cases they will want/expect you to follow them. But if they are just adding colors and tensions they usualy what you to stay on the changes so their sound is coming thru.

Takes good ears, years of experience, and seeing if the soloist is grimacing or smiling to know what to do.

"It's in C" implies C major.

I don't disagree with your analysis, just that with guitarists, the b3 does imply a 7#9 quite often. More often than not I'd say. In a jam session in some bar, there's bound to be a lot of those.

I'd also say a grimacing guitarist can be a good thing. Depends on the grimace. :p

If all they say is "Its in the key of C", then it could be EITHER C Major OR C Minor.

For all i know it could be 3 dominant 7th chords, 3 minor chords or any other combination of 3 chords.

the point is; i would like be told what sort of C scale it is from time to time.

I am not sure you understand what everyone is telling you.

It is implied that "C" is C major unless otherwise stated, you should get used to it that's standard theory like it or not. If you don't fully understand why I'd suggest a decent theory book.

I am not sure you understand what everyone is telling you.

It is implied that "C" is C major unless otherwise stated, you should get used to it that's standard theory like it or not. If you don't fully understand why I'd suggest a decent theory book.

Because sometimes, the person calling "C" doesn't even understand theory him/herself so all you can be sure is that the root note of the first chord is C and you have to listen to figure out the rest.

Because sometimes, the person calling "C" doesn't even understand theory him/herself so all you can be sure is that the root note of the first chord is C and you have to listen to figure out the rest.

If your playing with someone who's calling tunes but doesn't understand this stuff you have an opportunity to pass on your knowledge and let him understand better next time.

If they are calling anything other then a "standard progression" just knowing the key of the tune doesn't give you the entire picture anyway, "you have to listen to figure out the rest" anyway.

We all are either playing with someone better then us or maybe we are the one to look up to in a particular circumstance. In any case it's always best to help that guy out because you never know when your on the other side of the fence......

I am not sure you understand what everyone is telling you.

It is implied that "C" is C major unless otherwise stated, you should get used to it that's standard theory like it or not. If you don't fully understand why I'd suggest a decent theory book.

I'm not being sarcastic or rude with this post, so keep that it mind...

Its 'implied that "C" is C major'? Musical theory doesn't include implicit instructions given by musicians. A key consists of BOTH the root note and the mode/chord. C is not a key, its simply a note. C MAJOR is a key.

My point is that once in a while, i would like someone to tell me what KEY a song is in and not just what the root note of the 1 is.

As i've already stated, if you know your scales and chord theory, you'll pick up the key in a couple of beats, but i'd like someone to tell me more than just the root of the 1 for a change.

Do you get my point now?

EDIT: Every time i've jammed with a guitarist in a blues setting, if they say its in the key of E for example, they proceed to play minor or dominant chords instead of major chords. Are you trying to tell me that they implied the key E major? Last time i checked a the 1 of a major scale was a major chord.

well this is only for english folk music wich are nearly all in major keys anyway, there might be one of two in minor but minor keys just dont really work in english folk, unless they want to make a really depressing song.

..........Its 'implied that "C" is C major'? Musical theory doesn't include implicit instructions given by musicians. A key consists of BOTH the root note and the mode/chord. C is not a key, its simply a note. C MAJOR is a key.

When you refer to a chord or a key and say C it means major. Jazz music theorists do define it that way. If it is a C7 that means a dominant 7 chord, the 7th is always considered minor regardless of the scale degree implication of the key, unless otherwise notated i.e. Cmaj7....

I can understand your confusion and in a grade school 9th grade music theory class YES you will be required to say C Major C-E-G, E minor E-G-B.......but if are a musician in a live musical situation chords are considered major third, perfect fifth and minor 7 (if it is a 7 chord) hence CminMaj7, Cmin7b5......In these cases you are altering the implied....

I'd also say a grimacing guitarist can be a good thing. Depends on the grimace. :p
Yep, it could just be that "I need to take a dump but didn't have time before the second set" grimace :p