I keep hearing about a metronome, i saw one in the musicians friend but i still have no idea what they are.. Should i get one and what exactly are they?.and when i get one what do i do with it?.

HOSER,

A metronome is an electronic device which you set to "tick" out a steady pulse (that you specify in beats per minute) so that you can practice playing in time with some objective standard. The idea is that if you practice with one (and they are relentless) when you are by yourself, you will develop a strong sense of time which will help you in playing with others. I own three, and rarely practice without one. Best $20 you'll ever spend as a musician.

What part of Kentucky? Anywhere near Louisville?

What exactly was Jeff Berlin's reasoning with the whole "metronomes are useless" thing? The only thing I remember him saying about it was "come to my clinics and I'll prove it to you."

Man, that's a good question.

I don't ever think jeff said that metronomes were useless. Not to defend the guy, but he often gets taken out of context. I think what he said was that a metronome won't help you play in time if you don't know the music. He did go on to say that once something is under your fingers, you'll find your time is better than you think.

But as far as developing time feel goes, I don't think a better article could be written than the one Ed Friedland wrote for Bass Player's "Improve your Groove" issue. (Still the best issue of that magazine by far.) The Article was entitled "The Metronome as a Guru".

We've bee doind much recording latley. The studio guy had us on a click track. The guitarist just couln't stay with it. It drove the drummer nuts. You can really see ho the guitarist in our group pushes the music. His moving the tempo around gives a great feel.

I have used a metronome to help training myself. I don't know why it helped, except that it kept me from rushing on the parts that I had worked out and mussing around on the rougher stuff.

Funny thing is I never used a metronome but the first band I was in (at the tender age of 13) used drum machines extensively live so I was used to playing to that for a few years until we got a drummer and I gotta admit I found it a piece of cake locking in with the drummer thanks to playing with the machine for so long.

A funny thing I found when I started doing session work professionaly was that when recording to a click track I often found it necessary to actually play slightly AHEAD of the beat in order to lock down the groove (especially on pop/dance tracks where most of the instrumentation was done on a sequencer).

I used to use a metronome a fair amount, but to be honest I don't like them anymore.

Why? Maybe it's just because the one I have is a piece of junk, but it sounds really dead and lifeless (y'know, tick-tick-tick-tick). It's kinda tricky to play lines with a lot of feel to them to a dead, boring, robotic beat like that.

For really challenging lines, it can be an excellent tool (just so you can be sure you're on)... but I think I've been a lot better off by learning to keep a steady count in my head.

I think you missed my point, Ed. What I was trying to get across was that yes, the metronome is a good practice tool, if what you are trying to practice is your timing. Still, isn't it more useful to learn to count in your head? When you're up on stage, there isn't going to be a metronome, is there?

When I said that I found the metronome's beat dead and lifeless, I meant that in terms of inspiration to come up with bass lines. Much of the time, one gets that inspiration from other band members, and I fail to see how that qualifies as "leaning on them". You have to admit that the metronome's tick isn't very inspiring!

Actually I play in a duo - just me and a guitarist - so there isn't usually a whole lot to "lean on" in terms of time.

So, to clarify: The metronome is fine enough if you're trying to practice something specific, but if you're just noodling or practicing improv, I don't find it to be so useful.

Also, you seem to be assuming that those who don't use metronomes can't be solid players. C'mon, that isn't fair.

Originally posted by thrash_jazz
I think you missed my point, Ed. What I was trying to get across was that yes, the metronome is a good practice tool, if what you are trying to practice is your timing. Still, isn't it more useful to learn to count in your head? When you're up on stage, there isn't going to be a metronome, is there?

Hm, the factor you forget is muscle memory. Being able to count in your head per se isn't going to help you with <b>playing bass</b> in time.
Learn to play with the metronome, and if you got it down you'll have it internalised. You become your own metronome.

I've got an old metronome that I still use on occasion, but ever since I purchased a drum machine the metronome has seen less and less use. To me the drum machine is just an advancement from the metronome, kind of like comparing an abacus to a calculator. But I do feel that it is a great start to get a good feel for time.

:p I like JMX's signature! It's so true!

When you're counting in your head, does that not count as an "internalized" metronome (assuming you're doing it properly)?

Granted it doesn't translate into muscle memory unless you practice playing and counting - same as is required with a metronome.

I don't really want to start a big debate over this. All I'm saying is that it's worked out for me. And, for the record, I DO use a metronome - just not all the time.

BTW Ed - I suggest using the slightly more humorous name TRASHJAZZ next time;)

Originally posted by thrash_jazz
:p I like JMX's signature! It's so true!

When you're counting in your head, does that not count as an "internalized" metronome (assuming you're doing it properly)?

Granted it doesn't translate into muscle memory unless you practice playing and counting - same as is required with a metronome.

I don't really want to start a big debate over this. All I'm saying is that it's worked out for me. And, for the record, I DO use a metronome - just not all the time.

BTW Ed - I suggest using the slightly more humorous name TRASHJAZZ next time;)


RAZZLE JAZZLE

I dont think it translates to muscle memory at all. Muscle memory is an illusion created by repetative motion. Muscle cant have memory, it has no cognitive thought process. However, mental conditioning throught repetative motion can lend one to perform tasks consistantly. The 'nome conditions the musical brain, not any muscle.


Mike

On a side note, last night my teacher shared a drill he does with another friend.

You have to have a drum machine for this, (but essentially, it will just be acting as a metronome).

He sets a certain tempo with a metronome. Something slow, say 50 bpm. The clicks represent half notes, the 1 and the 3. The program the drum machine to play a beat on the 1 and the 3, then he programs two empty bars on the drum machine to follow. Then they press play, and play along. The first bar sets the tempo, then you have two bars with no support, then when you come back to that first bar, you can see how far off you got in the space of just two bars.

Originally posted by mikemulcahy



RAZZLE JAZZLE

I dont think it translates to muscle memory at all. Muscle memory is an illusion created by repetative motion. Muscle cant have memory, it has no cognitive thought process. However, mental conditioning throught repetative motion can lend one to perform tasks consistantly. The 'nome conditions the musical brain, not any muscle.


Mike

You`re right of course Doc, but muscle memory is a term people know, so I chose it so I didn't have to explain it in a large post - yes I'm lazy :p

Originally posted by JMX


You`re right of course Doc, but muscle memory is a term people know, so I chose it so I didn't have to explain it in a large post - yes I'm lazy :p

I know you and the more "seasoned" folks here know that. The point I want to make is that when using the nome as a practice tool, the concentration is on the brain coordinating with the hands in response to the tempo.


Mike:D :D :D

SPLASHPADS - hee hee hee.

You're definitely a talented guy, DEAD AQUA.

Originally posted by thrash_jazz
SPLASHPADS - hee hee hee.

You're definitely a talented guy, DEAD AQUA.


FLUSH SPAZ,

Man, you don't know the half of it until you've hear BAD FUNGUS play. The man is one Baaaad muthaSHUTYOMOUF!!!

I hope you've got a good sense of humor, because you've got what looks like traces of quicksand on your sneakers. Have a nice swim! :)


Yours,

DURRL FROM IPANEMA

Chris - I wasn't meaning to insult BREAD FUGUE in any way at all. I was referring to his oft-used methods of altering people's names, which I really do find quite funny!

Heck, I would never rip on anyone's playing ability, especially not when the person in question is clearly a very experienced player.

Originally posted by FRESH_JIZZ
Chris - I wasn't meaning to insult BREAD FUGUE in any way at all. I was referring to his oft-used methods of altering people's names, which I really do find quite funny!




(mutters to self....)

BREAD FUGUE....Bread Fugue....gotta hand it to the new guy....he's got potential.....


(end mutter)

(...ahem...)



RASH NADS,

No problem. I never worry about anyone insulting RED DOUCHESPRAY...time has proven that he doesn't need much help in taking care of himself. I just thought that - since you were new and all - you might want to know that you were walking dangerously close to the edge of the TB quicksand pit (just in case you hadn't noticed it yet).

See ya 'round.

P!$$ FISHJELLO

Originally posted by Chris Fitzgerald



(mutters to self....)

BREAD FUGUE....Bread Fugue....gotta hand it to the new guy....he's got potential.....


(end mutter)

(...ahem...)



RASH NADS,

No problem. I never worry about anyone insulting RED DOUCHESPRAY...time has proven that he doesn't need much help in taking care of himself. I just thought that - since you were new and all - you might want to know that you were walking dangerously close to the edge of the TB quicksand pit (just in case you hadn't noticed it yet).

See ya 'round.

P!$$ FISHJELLO


I agree with MYBROWNEYEDDUUURRLL, FRED CROQUET can handle himself pretty well.



Mike

Thanks, SLED FLUGELHORN... This thread has gotten quite interesting, if not a little off-topic...

BTW thanks for the idea of practicing duo with metronome... never done that before... plan on trying it this weekend.

Question: When you are practicing, say, eighth-note lines, would it be more helpful to set the 'nome at a faster speed and treat each tick as an eighth, or continue to treat it as a quarter?

my metronome is the 5th most important piece of musical equipment i have

The man is one Baaaad muthaSHUTYOMOUF!!!

that sounds awfully familiar. are you talking bout the shaft. DAMMNN RIGHT.

I played percussion for 3 years, got tempo ingrained into my brain, and I've always been in time since. Never needed a metronome, however I have played with people who do need them.