so i was at tower records last night, and found this album for sale in the $6 rack. now, it's a bit embarrassing, but i had previously not been familiar with the Who whatsoever. but when i got home and played it, it blew me away - move the hell over, Led Zep! these guys are truly stunning musicians as well as songwriters.

entwhistle basically has two tones on the album - a mellow one, and a hard rocking one. does anybody know how he got the latter? sounds to me like maybe a pick and some sort of overdrive pedal. in the photos in the insert it shows him playing a P-bass through a Hiwatt stack, does anyone know if that is indeed the setup he used on that album?

yes, i'm aware that this could go into Bassists, Amps, and Effects, but i just want to know about this particular recording. thanks

If you can, solo your left speaker, bass is on the left and the guitar is on the right speakers. Hearing it with the bass soloed is truely heavenly.

No, I don't know how he got the sound exactly, but I wish I could copy it :D

Entwistle's tone comes from very sophisticated setups, rigs, technique, etc...it's extremely hard to duplicate.

The Hiwatt you see in that picture was not a bass amp, I believe...it was a guitar amp. His trademark distortion sound comes from that guitar-amp distortion.

Another thing he does is to set his action extremely low, so that, according to Rick Turner, the strings buzz "evenly across all frets".

If you have the time, pick up a recording of The Who's "Blues to the Bush". I think you can only buy it online. Or, go to Pete Townshend's website at www.eelpie.com and buy a download version of The Who's concert in Denver in summer, 2000. On this recording, Entwistle's tone takes on many more forms than his P-bass would allow...he's got some fairly mellow, scooped midrange tones on some songs, flat sounds on some, heavy midrange on others, and a very well pronounced distortion tone on even others. Plus, the bass solo on "5:15" is worth the price of the CD all by itself:D

Welcome to the wonderful world of John Entwistle!!! He's truly the master;)

Heh - I just got the same album at Tower... (also from the $6 bin, I picked up Marvin Gaye's Let's Get It On, Steely Dan's Aja and Gaucho, and James Brown's Sex Machine!!)

My roommate just bought the DVD of Live at Leeds -- it's pretty damn cool too!! Next time I watch it, I'll check out his rig for ya...

Originally posted by dancehallclasher
entwhistle basically has two tones on the album - a mellow one, and a hard rocking one. does anybody know how he got the latter? sounds to me like maybe a pick and some sort of overdrive pedal. in the photos in the insert it shows him playing a P-bass through a Hiwatt stack, does anyone know if that is indeed the setup he used on that album?

ROTFL

There actually was a time when bassists got overdrive because of using low powered tube amps. Those HiWatts put out maybe 100 watts in a strong tailwind ;)

Anyway, that's it: a stock P-bass through a tube stack. He goes between a pick and fingers depending on the song.

By the way, I see Leeds has been reissued AGAIN. Each time they've added more material. What, they couldn't find those tapes back in 1995 when the last reissue came out? :mad:

Geez, this is just like Hendrix, buy the same album every five years when the "new" version comes out.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by brianrost


ROTFL

There actually was a time when bassists got overdrive because of using low powered tube amps.

i'm quite aware of that, but the quick tone changes lead me to believe he was using a pedal.

hi
i never knew about John using effects, he used a (cant remember the name of the bass now) i think it was a custom in all the pics ive seen og him and a concert on tv not so long ago he was using the same bass, he has used quite a few over the years to get the good sound. never knew what amps he played through though. suppose its diff with Pete Townshend, he didnt care what he used cause he'd always trash it at the end of a gig.
later
Lukas

Originally posted by dancehallclasher


i'm quite aware of that, but the quick tone changes lead me to believe he was using a pedal. I'm not convinced he used a pedal, per se, though he might have had some sort of footswitch to switch gain sections of the amp itself.

Originally posted by brianrost

By the way, I see Leeds has been reissued AGAIN. Each time they've added more material. What, they couldn't find those tapes back in 1995 when the last reissue came out? :mad:

Geez, this is just like Hendrix, buy the same album every five years when the "new" version comes out.:rolleyes:

yep, agree 100% - I've got the original Live at Leeds on cassette and the reissue from 95 with added tracks on CD.
........makes you wonder how long the original gig actually was- it seems to have amazing regeneration properties that mysteriously add extra songs every few years......
something for the X-Files, perhaps? :D

Entwistle says he used "Frankenstein" on Live at Leeds"- a P bass with a maple neck, and a slab body (no contouring).

the tone changes are just due to him switching between pick and fingers as Brianrost says -I've seen footage of him (The Who at Charlton stadium) using fingers on "Young man blues" and a pick on "See me, feel me", which corresponds with the respective tones on live at Leeds.

the who are incredible talented musician and that live is stunning. john has always had an incredible tone through the years. the tonal variations you speak about are due, i suppose, to the higly dinamic response of old tube amps at high volume. this means that without changing setup the sound changes dramatically only by the touch, if you gently touch the strings you have a mellow tone, if you hit them hard you have a saturation. if the pickups are close to the strings this is emphatized. i don't think that in those years john used an esoteric setup, even if he's a great collector of amps and basses.
look at this pic, this is actual rig...

http://www.johnentwistle.com/Gear/images/jae_spkrig.jpg

well, i am familiar with bad brains. i'm from DC, after all. :D

Who are the Bad Brains?

Ah, the Who and Bad Brains in the same thread. Now there are some respectable bassists! Never got to see Entwistle live yet, but have been enjoying his work for years. Saw BB in New Orleans for the 'Quickness' tour, that was impressive.
Doesn't everybody have 'I against I'? Hardcore w/ jazz chops and reggae sensibilities? Daryl J is a monster!

Originally posted by xush
Ah, the Who and Bad Brains in the same thread. Now there are some respectable bassists! Never got to see Entwistle live yet, but have been enjoying his work for years. If you ever have the chance to catch his other band, aptly titled "The John Entwistle Band", go see 'em, and stand close! Also, bring ear plugs. He's the loudest show I've ever seen. My ears still ring just thinking about it! He's truly more amazing in person than you can possibly imagine!

Yeah, Live At Leeds is an awesome album! Probably the best live album ever released.
Check out the Who's 'Tommy' for some REALLY good stuff.

By the way, I see Leeds has been reissued AGAIN. Each time they've added more material. What, they couldn't find those tapes back in 1995 when the last reissue came out?
I hate that. Its like the Doors, every few years some new concert recording will be "found" just in time for christmas. C'mon, Im sure every recording ever made of those bands is in a safe somewhere. Just release all of it already!!
Jim

Originally posted by the-lizard-king

I hate that. Its like the Doors, every few years some new concert recording will be "found" just in time for christmas. C'mon, Im sure every recording ever made of those bands is in a safe somewhere. Just release all of it already!!
Jim Yup! But, at least with The Who, we can expect new material to surface. Check out this link...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/features/20020101-9999_1c1who.html

He mentions that The Who will begin recording in October, 2002...Their first studio recording since 1982. I wonder if this'll have remakes and remasters and song additions a few years after it's initial release:pLOL

I bought the Live At Leeds Deluxe Edition on monday.
now I have to sell the '95 reissue of LAL I have already......

it's worth it just for the live version of Pinball Wizzard.
"Eyesight for the blind" is great too with the thundering bass & drums punctuation of the lyrics.

I think that's the whole concert covered now, so another re-release shouldn't happen, in theory....

I'll have to buy the Royal Albert Hall DVD now too.

Mock,

The 1995 disc sounds a LOT better than the new 2-disc set. Listen to the new one before you sell it. You may want to keep both.

Originally posted by dancehallclasher
move the hell over, Led Zep!


:eek: :(


you just hurt me so much...

Originally posted by dancehallclasher
so i was at tower records last night, and found this album for sale in the $6 rack. now, it's a bit embarrassing, but i had previously not been familiar with the Who whatsoever. but when i got home and played it, it blew me away - move the hell over, Led Zep! these guys are truly stunning musicians as well as songwriters.

I just bought "Tommy" and "Live at Leeds" today on a whim. After listening to both of them I have a feeling I'll never regret it. "Tommy" being one of the best albums I've heard and "Live at Leeds" is a great live album.

.
.
.

"Listen to Tommy with a candle burning and you'll see your future."

I know this is an old thread, but I think it bears even more merit in the wake on Entwistle's passing.

NO bassist has ever kicked my ass so hard or made me think about the role of electric bass more differently that Entwistle on "Live at Leeds." I couldn't give a care if Townsend's SG appeared or not. I'm not the first to recognize by any means that Entwistle was the one who carried the songs, instrumentally. Townsend, to me, was an uncommonly great songwriter but, as a guitarist, just a chord basher with mediocre lead guitar skills. To his credit, Townsend even admitted he was practically forgettable.

The tragedy, to me, is that we will never hear of "Sir John Entwistle." He changed my world on bass. Since I first heard him in 1970, I have always used stainless steel roundwounds. I was no longer a "background" musician.

I thought I read somewhere that Entwhistle used to use Fender P-Basses customized with Gibson Thunderbird necks. Anyone know if this is true?You've got it backwards. He used Gibson Thunderbird basses with Fender P necks bolted on for a few years. What an incredibly bizzare combination.

Originally posted by Philbiker
You've got it backwards. He used Gibson Thunderbird basses with Fender P necks bolted on for a few years. What an incredibly bizzare combination.

I'm a bit perplexed about how he did that- judging from pics of the "Fenderbird" bass the body wasn't from a neck-through reverse-body T-Bird (the original neck on which would have had to be sawn off:eek: ),

but it couldn't have come from a set-neck T'Bird as those were non-reverse bodies:confused:

a custom T-bird body, perhaps?


http://members.tripod.com/rant58/6ca5ee60.jpg

My guess is that they were reverse-body T-birds with the necks sawn off. Given how much the headstocks break on those things, it was probably a good idea :D

BTW, I thought Entwistle used an early SVT on Live at Leeds.

I'm a bit perplexed about how he did that- judging from pics of the "Fenderbird" bass the body wasn't from a neck-through reverse-body T-Bird (the original neck on which would have had to be sawn off :eek: ),

but it couldn't have come from a set-neck T'Bird as those were non-reverse bodiesEven if it was a set neck instrument the neck would have had to be sawn off to accomodate the Fender shaped neck heel. My guess is that as Peter implied it may have been a broke headstock T-Bird as that was pretty common. This bass was on the wall at my local "Hard Rock Cafe" the last time I was there.

There's no way that either Fender or Gibson endorsed this bass, as they were very bitter rivals at the time. The whole idea of a neck through/set neck Gibson with a Fender neck is just crazy. I'm surprised there isn't a replica made by anyone. Well, Epiphone.... :)

the through-neck T'bird with broken headstock theory sounds plausible for the "Fenderbirds", but I was looking at pics of them in the Bassist interview with JE-

the body looks completely flat, with a different pickguard running accross the bass- original neck-through T'birds had a centre raised section (as JE's sunburst one in the Ultimate Guitar Book), with a pickguard only covering the lower bout.

the body could have been sanded flat, and the custom pickguard added- seems like a lot of work would have been involved though.

I just bought Live at Leeds about 4 hours ago. I've listened to it through twice already. Great great album. Already one of my favourites.

I just picked up "The Who by Numbers" on CD, not having owned it since before vinyl went out the window. Anyway, this is an updated version with 3 live performances on it: Squeeze Box, Behind Blue Eyes, and Dreaming From the Waist.

IMO, this CD showcases Entwistle's talent about as much as Live at Leeds or Quadrophenia. The songs aren't as memorable, but the bass parts SMOKE!!!:D

I absolutely love "By Numbers". The bass is incredible, and "Success Story" is probably my favorite Entwistle penned Who song.

I played in a warm-up band when the Who were firsdt called the Detours then the High Numbers and finally the Who. John Entwistle moved from a 335 stle Epiphone (when they were made to the same quality as Gibsons) which had that huge rumbling bass soiund, with no definition to the Rickenbacker that gave them the clear clank you hear on the early records. Having said that the band did use borrowed Precisions in the sudio and double up the 12 string Rickenbacker Towsend played with the piano. So don't really believe what you see on record albums. John's sound was in the ealy days just a normal stock Rickenbacker with Marshall stackes 2 x 4 x 12 Celestions (the 25 watt ones) And at the start it was just driven by a single 50 watt Marshall valve amp - no effects in 1964. He used Rotosound strings as they seemed to have the most clang to them - played with the fingers - he was the first player I had ever seen do that - in his own style of thumb and three fingers which was how he hit so many notes per bar. Want more e mail me but that;'s me pretty wel played out on what I can remember from 38 years ago. By the way we all went round to John's mum's house (I worked for her in the tax office at the time) and listen to their new demo called "I think It's Spring" which was the chorus. This then became "I can't Explain" on the first recording. Don't think the spring idea worked as well. What do you think?

Yes the earlier post is correct about the guitar amp used - I was there when John tried this. It gave a load more top to the Rickenbacker. I suspect he had one of each when he started to double up the amps and chain the Marshal 50 amps. (No 100 watts's at this stage)

Since Ox died, 2 CDs have not left my car: Live at Leeds, and the soundtrack album to Kids are Alright, which was recently remastered and rereleased.

Many great words have been said about L@L, deservedly so, but while Kids isn't quite on that level, it is also a fine album. Kids contains many great live tracks from the Ox/Moon era. Two of my favorites are "Baba O'Reilly" and "Won't Get Fooled" (both in the film; just check out Ox' massive Alembic tones), but my favorite of all is not in the film, and that is the Entwistle-penned "My Wife". This is another track which can be panned left to hear John in all his glory, laying down some stunning muted-plectrum work. What is even more amazing is that he sings the lead.

Agree with you view on Who By Numbers - a really underrated album and probably the one that showcased Enwistle's studio work the best. Especially love the descending runs on Slipkid!

Man, I'm going to have to listen to Live at Leeds when I get home now.

John's always been more a tonal influence than a playing influence, until I heard live at Leeds, then I realized his playing influenced the bassists that influenced me... so it all comes back to The Ox.

As you can tell (maybe) by my avatar, I've been big on his solo discs lately. They are kinda like the Who's heavier side... cool heavy psych... SMASH YOUR HEAD AGAINST THE WALL! Who can argue an album title like that?

now go our and buy the dvd 'the who live at the aisle of white." it was filmed just a short time after live at leeds. live it leeds is better overall but isle of white was very good too. unfortunately they don't spend a whole lot of time focusing on the ox but it is quite a spectacle overall. watching moon alone is worth it.

.

entwhistle basically has two tones on the album - a mellow one, and a hard rocking one. does anybody know how he got the latter? sounds to me like maybe a pick and some sort of overdrive pedal. in the photos in the insert it shows him playing a P-bass through a Hiwatt stack, does anyone know if that is indeed the setup he used on that album?



The two tone differences are basically his P-bass with the tone knob at either extreme. And subtler sound changes are achieved with his playing style, the pick giving a sharper attack.
I believe John was using two Hiwatt stacks at the time, one to emphasize the bottom, the other for top. He would have gone direct into them.
The bass was a Frankenstein job but the secret to the incredible tone is the pickup - salvaged from an earlier 'slab' Precision, it had a growlier, raunchier tone than the standard. I've been campaigning for Fender to reissue this pickup, it is probably the best bass tone ever.:bassist:

As you can tell (maybe) by my avatar, I've been big on his solo discs lately. They are kinda like the Who's heavier side... cool heavy psych... With LOTS OF HORNS!!

I love Peter Framton's playing on "Whistle Rhymes".

now go our and buy the dvd 'the who live at the aisle of white." it was filmed just a short time after live at leeds. live it leeds is better overall but isle of white was very good too. unfortunately they don't spend a whole lot of time focusing on the ox but it is quite a spectacle overall. watching moon alone is worth it.

by all means! I got that one last Christmas (by request of course) More energy than any band should be allowed to have :hyper: My 11-yr-old bass-playing son is becoming a big Entwhistle fan (good genes at work :D ) -GFI