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Hello fellow TBers....
At the risk of offending some of you, which is not my intent at all. I'm new to TB and I've been on it quite a bit in the month I've been a member. Anyway.....

I love TB and after reading/replying to a gazillion posts in the Basses section... Does anyone else feel like we are starting to focus more and more on playing Bass instead of playing music???

Thread after thread and post after post of bass specs - string spacing here, weight there, neck radius here.... I started to feel like saying, "c'mon everyone, enough with the tech talk - let's play some music." I started to ask myself questions like, "who cares what bass you're playing, what songs have you written with it?" - speaking of my new CS Fender J. I feel that more and more of us are looking at basses as more than the tools that they are - focusing on the actual instrument itself instead of what it was built to do.

I know the smarta**/short answer would be, "stop reading the Basses theads" - which to a point I have, and I've been spending more and more time in the Techniques section.

Like I said, no offense.... but does anyone else feel this way?

Does anyone else feel like we are starting to focus more and more on playing Bass instead of playing music???

Yes. I am often disheartened by so many posts that show that very few folks here understand the difference between the instrument (a tool) and music (the thing we should be trying to make with the tool).

There is so much focus on techniques and whatnot and precious little on music. I always say "Be a musician first, then a bass player."

The electric bass is still fairly new and many out there still have a chip on their shoulder to prove the instruments' viability. That's all well and good now, but let's face it....there's tons of guys out there who can rip 64th note licks now. I'm sorry, it's just not that big of a deal anymore.

Sure, it's impressive...for about 30 seconds. Then in gets old real quick. Can you play a melody? Can you develop ideas and themes, and come up with variations on those themes?

To the point: I don't really care what tool you use; can you create music with that tool? Real music...? Or can you just move your fingers really fast?

Playing bass fast is hard to do. Being a good creative musician who can put your own ego and need to be appreciated aside and be part of the greater whole of creating music is much, much, much harder.

I understand the point that you are trying to make but I must respectfully disagree. I have been a member of TB for several years now and I find that just about ALL aspects of bass are covered. Let's face it, music is subjective and what I like may not be your cup of tea. We could argue about who is right forever OR we could discuss how we go about playing the music we do. We can discuss tone and what elements we take into account to create our own. We can discuss what instruments we enjoy playing or which strings we prefer; howevr, I can not tell you how to make music. Some of us prefer the more subtle, some prefer the bomabastic, still others prefer the blindly fast stuff. Are any of these preferences wrong? I don't think so.
Yes, the instrument is just a tool but I can play one style and you can play another and we can still enjoy dicussing how we use our given tool. I have read a lot of great ideas at TB and I think I stand the same chance of learning something from someone who is into Fieldy as much as someone into Jerry Jermott. To me this is a great place to discuss the "tools" as we all clearly share a common passion. We don't all share the same results from those tools.

Like I said, no offense.... but does anyone else feel this way?

Absolutely, but I also think the common ground we all have on TB is mainly the gear, not a shared musical vision.

I understand the point that you are trying to make but I must respectfully disagree.

Cool, no problem

Yup. I agree with the OP. A simple test to verify this fact is to look at the number of people viewing the 'Basses" forum as opposed to the "Technique" or "General Instructions" forum at any given point in time. The ratio is usually 10:1 (i.e. for every 10 people ogling at new basses and flaunting their gear, there is one person trying to work on theory and technique). Which i think is sad..

Yup. I agree with the OP. A simple test to verify this fact is to look at the number of people viewing the 'Basses" forum as opposed to the "Technique" or "General Instructions" forum at any given point in time. The ratio is usually 10:1 (i.e. for every 10 people ogling at new basses and flaunting their gear, there is one person trying to work on theory and technique). Which i think is sad..

I've been here for many years and I've thinking the same, word for word.

I guess I could've just added +1.

Oh well, people can do whatever they want.

I don't find it sad at all. You have to remember that most of the people who frequent this site aren't professional musicians. It's not all about the music to a lot of folks, and it doesn't need to be. They're here for fun. People like gear- I sure do- and nobody's getting hurt by people sharing that enjoyment and interest with others who feel the same. I probably have more original music posted here and on my website than most members, but I can also bet that more than 50% of my posts are in the Basses forum. I wish I had a resource like TB when I started out- if I'd have been able to spend the time I do now in the Basses forum back then, I'd have been able to avoid the two lemons that were my first basses (which actually made it harder to play the music :D)

Im here for both, its all good here, there are times Im excited about a new axe or amp, there are times I need help and understanding chords scales terms etc. I find it all here.

I think that the generation of any sound is music and therefore it is impossible to play a bass and not play music. Not everyone is meant to be a composer either. Some people are just meant to go with the flow.

As far as gear talk, gear is important. Show me one orchestral player that doesn't obsess about having some antique or custom made instrument.

Great gear can inspire great ideas too. Fair enough, some people buy gear just because it looks nice and they don't really know how to use it to its full potential. Then again there are others that will innovate new styles and ideas because of their gear.

As far as stings gauges, nut choice, spacings, pickups, speakers and so on, The more informed you are about the gear you are using the better. All of those aspects go into making you a better musician. It is like a racing driver who doesn't know the difference between a carburettor and an alternator.

Playing music is way harder than playing bass. But learning the techniques is important to play music longer and comfortably. I wish there were more in the technique and music theory sections cause its hard to apply these things to the fretboard.

Playing music is way harder than playing bass. But learning the techniques is important to play music longer and comfortably. I wish there were more in the technique and music theory sections cause its hard to apply these things to the fretboard.
This is where knowing a little piano comes in handy. Theory makes a ton more sense when you see it spelled out on a piano, whereas every fret on a guitar or bass looks like every other one.

I don't find anything disheartening anymore. If someone wants to buy basses so they can look at the pretty colors, God bless 'em! If someone wants to learn how to play bass, the material is available for them. Not like anyone's being deprived.

This is where knowing a little piano comes in handy. Theory makes a ton more sense when you see it spelled out on a piano, whereas every fret on a guitar or bass looks like every other one.

I don't find anything disheartening anymore. If someone wants to buy basses so they can look at the pretty colors, God bless 'em! If someone wants to learn how to play bass, the material is available for them. Not like anyone's being deprived.

I don't agree. If anything piano complicates theory in to 12 different "key" groupings with 12 different geometric approaches and suggests that some notes have precedence over others. Instruments like bass and guitar on the other hand are fully transpositional and once you have a sense of geometry for one "key" you can transpose it to another. The fact that every fret looks like every other one makes us concentrate on what is really important, interval relationships instead of diatonic "key" groupings. The only complication is the M3 interval between the G and B string on guitar.

Yes. I am often disheartened by so many posts that show that very few folks here understand the difference between the instrument (a tool) and music (the thing we should be trying to make with the tool).

There is so much focus on techniques and whatnot and precious little on music. I always say "Be a musician first, then a bass player."

The electric bass is still fairly new and many out there still have a chip on their shoulder to prove the instruments' viability. That's all well and good now, but let's face it....there's tons of guys out there who can rip 64th note licks now. I'm sorry, it's just not that big of a deal anymore.

Sure, it's impressive...for about 30 seconds. Then in gets old real quick. Can you play a melody? Can you develop ideas and themes, and come up with variations on those themes?

To the point: I don't really care what tool you use; can you create music with that tool? Real music...? Or can you just move your fingers really fast?

Playing bass fast is hard to do. Being a good creative musician who can put your own ego and need to be appreciated aside and be part of the greater whole of creating music is much, much, much harder.

A-*******-men

I play standard 2-finger jog style, and I have no desire to do anything else. My desire lies in musical theory and knowledge to create my own stuff, and I play it on a my first and only bass (IBANEZ GSR200) with generic brand strings.

Yes. I am often disheartened by so many posts that show that very few folks here understand the difference between the instrument (a tool) and music (the thing we should be trying to make with the tool).

There is so much focus on techniques and whatnot and precious little on music. I always say "Be a musician first, then a bass player."

The electric bass is still fairly new and many out there still have a chip on their shoulder to prove the instruments' viability. That's all well and good now, but let's face it....there's tons of guys out there who can rip 64th note licks now. I'm sorry, it's just not that big of a deal anymore.

Sure, it's impressive...for about 30 seconds. Then in gets old real quick. Can you play a melody? Can you develop ideas and themes, and come up with variations on those themes?

To the point: I don't really care what tool you use; can you create music with that tool? Real music...? Or can you just move your fingers really fast?

Playing bass fast is hard to do. Being a good creative musician who can put your own ego and need to be appreciated aside and be part of the greater whole of creating music is much, much, much harder.


Why is one exclusive of the other? I don't know many orchestras that hire "feel" players. There is plenty of technique involved in playing a Shostokovich piano concerto.

If you are playing with an ensemble and your job is to play the rootnote then that is your job. If you know how to do your job properly then you will realise that that is what you have to do. I think it is unfair to undermine someone's creativity just because they have the freedom to approach music more technically.

Ego has nothing to do with playing technically in my opinion, you either can or you can't. The motivation is unimportant. I also keep in mind that just because something isn't my cup of tea doesn't undermine its validity, and there are sure to be people out there that appreciate it. I personally would hate it if everyone played it safe and didn't try to develop the role of bassplaying and the instrument itself.

For the most part highly technical music boars me most of the time. I like simply, raw, unrefined music.

This is a crack up .. we are arguing about choices here ..
everyone is allowed to choose people

I must admit if I wasn't looking for info on pickups I would never have found TB and I'm very glad I did .. I've been playing bass since I was about 15 and now I'm 34

I have two lovely basses and I could have happily played them stock forever but I came in here looking for info on changing that stock sound so that I could find something that was truly me .. now that me thing is ever evolving so I guess that sound is going to change huh .. I guess thats why we change basses ?

thats one thing about basses and guitars only so much technique can change your tone .. when I used to play trumpet regularly, I could get very different sounds just from technique .. I find with my basses there is to a degree a need to find the gear to get your sound .. so therefore sooner or later people are going to find that interesting .. I think once they do they always will .. a trumpet player can pick up two different horns and sound pretty much the same .. a bass player picks up a p bass and then a musicman his tone will more than likely be quite different .. its not just bass players and guitarists either though .. ask a horn player .. large bore small bore .. different types of metal bells .. different mouth peice sizes ahhahah

its only natural you can only go just so far until you want a hammer that fits your hand perfectly .. then gear lust starts

I know when I see my uncle who is also a bass player its not often that we say hay you got a new chord progression dude .. its more likely that we ask about equipment .. however we will move on to talk about songs and what not .. I think thats how it works here as well .. people find the place looking for opinions and help with equipment and stay to pickup everything else we can

I have started cruising the technique side of talkbass a bit more ..
but really I enjoy the gear side too .. some of you guys have some beautiful basses
I'd like to hear you play them but its not likely that I will hear many of you .. so its nice to at least see them

as far as playing style goes whos to say whats better .. its really just your taste
it would be pretty awful if we all played exactly the same .. I mostly play groove stuff with lots of nice space to let the music breath and move .. now if everyone followed my way of thinking my playing wouldn't be nearly as special .. and I'd probably go out and start playing alot more notes ahhahah

I think I might have squeezed more than two cents worth in there huh

cheers
Paul

I find this same issue with a lot of the student musicians I play with in pit orchestras around town. It's funny to hear a horn player complain about their part; how it's not challenging, really boring, etc.. and then to hear the Music Director tell them "You're here to make the singer sound good, not showcase yourself."

Myself, there was a time a couple years back, I could've probably tapped with the best of them. But really, what was the practical purpose of it? It came back to my desire to play and make music that people will enjoy, not just other musicians. Surprisingly with that mindset, while my tapping chops have fallen a little, my overall enjoyment of music has increased ten-fold, and so has my gigging.

I agree with you; however, we're all at different points in our journey. Some people are just hearing about a lot of gear and options for the first time. Many of us have read about the same stuff over and over again.

I've gone through a lot of phases here at TB. I'm at the point right now where my bass is a tool to get the job done. Gear is changing all the time. I used to spend a sick amount of time looking for images and specs on MTD and Roscoe basses; in fact, I started the MTD G.A.S. PICS thread. I haven't been to that thread in a very long time.

When I see people obsessing over all the little details in their gear; I think to myself, I was there once (and I might be there again in the near future).

Also, this is the perfect forum for gear/specs chit-chat. Where else can you talk about this kinda stuff and not get sand kicked in your face? :p

Peace,
Joe

Should we all go and tell Michael Manring that if he stops being such a showoff his enjoyment of music and gig opportunities will increase now?

I really don't understand this attitude a lot of people have that technique and technical playing is some kind of negative thing. Almost like they are trying to discourage people that do want to play that way. There is nothing wrong with playing more stripped back simplified music, but it's nonsense to claim that you are somehow better for doing it. There is definitely a practical place for technical music, there is definitely a place for music that isn't technical. I think the better musicians know how to do both and when it is appropriate.

Ego has nothing to do with playing technically in my opinion, you either can or you can't. The motivation is unimportant.

This is where we diverge. Motivation is everything. You apparently don't see things that way; so be it

Should we all go and tell Michael Manring that if he stops being such a showoff his enjoyment of music and gig opportunities will increase now?

First...what? Second, good example. Michael's motivation is much purer than most. You're helping me make my point, and you can hear it in his playing if you listen.


I really don't understand this attitude a lot of people have that technique and technical playing is some kind of negative thing...There is nothing wrong with playing more stripped back simplified music, but it's nonsense to claim that you are somehow better for doing it

You might not understand the attitude because no one said that. What I and some others are saying is "What are you trying to accomplish? What was your motivation?" (That's why I said what I did)

Are you serving the music or yourself?...that is the question that intrigues me the most.

Thank you all for your opinions regarding gear talk... I love TB! As I said, I myself spend a lot of time there... Before and after I started this thread.

On the music education side, I am not a trained musician... Only until I started playing with my current band almost 2 years ago did I start paying attention to the technical side of things - all of a sudden I had a singer who had a degree in jazz, an educated keyboardist and a berklee grad drummer. For me it exposed (more to myself) my shortcomings for not being formally educated - some guys can do it... According to Marcus Miller in his BP Live clinic, George Benson doesn't read music but the point he tried to make was that not all of us are geniuses like him. For me, I feel like I'm stacking the odds against myself for not being trained - because those are the kind of gigs I am after.

As others have said, it boils down to what you are trying to accomplish with your music and what motivates you to make music. For me, I feel that the education and technical side of things is not absolutely necessary but it is a great thing to have... Now that I am playing "catch-up" I can see the benefits of it from what I've learned so far... And that doesn't mean that my music is going to be anymore technical than it was... It just helps me understand what I am playing and the biggest thing is it helps me relate to other instruments than guitar - Because when I started playing with keys - I was like, "How do I play with this guy? My ear is only so good."

I really don't understand this attitude a lot of people have that technique and technical playing is some kind of negative thing. Almost like they are trying to discourage people that do want to play that way. There is nothing wrong with playing more stripped back simplified music, but it's nonsense to claim that you are somehow better for doing it. There is definitely a practical place for technical music, there is definitely a place for music that isn't technical. I think the better musicians know how to do both and when it is appropriate

Sometimes the technical stuff has no emotion, its just showcasing. If your simple stuff has a feel to it then it is better.

Sometimes the technical stuff has no emotion, its just showcasing. If your simple stuff has a feel to it then it is better.

Simple stuff can lack emotion just as easily. It's the music, not the notes. The level of technicality in many classical pieces is extremely high- no one doubts the adept emotional storytelling the genre brings though.

ive been playing bass since the mid seventies....and have been through technical phases and have now come to love the simple groove. To do it well comes with time but also you do need the groove gene somewhere in your makeup.

I also love the subject of bass construction ect ect.....

And yes this forum does have i would guess a lot of crap players talking about the finish ect ect..

so what to do....

we were all there at one stage or another ..

we all go through these phases...

not a problem in my mind.

This is where we diverge. Motivation is everything. You apparently don't see things that way; so be it

Actually I see things exactly that way. If you aren't motivated to play technically that is fair enough, as long as you are able to accept the limitations that go with it. Some people, it seems, tend to downplay technicality as a way of justifying their lack of motivation. I am not necessarily saying that this is your case but I am sure that there are people out there that will say "It's all technical, it has no emotion, and I don't really need to be able to do that because I have feel". I think music can and probably should be both ways.

Sometimes the technical stuff has no emotion, its just showcasing. If your simple stuff has a feel to it then it is better.

There are plenty of no so technical examples of music out there that have no emotion either. Some of those are showcasing some teenage girl that probably can't sing without the help of studio editing much anyway. Personally I appreciate that someone has taken the time to develop their musicianship to a particular level even if the music they make is not my thing, at least over something that is simple because that is all it can be.

The bottom line for me is that it isn't a one way or the other situation. I think the better musicians are the ones that are constantly working on their technique but are at the same time thinking about how it should be used in context. Taste isn't everything since one person's taste is completely different to another person's. The thing that I believe is most important is adaptability and keeping an open mind.

I think the better musicians are the ones that are constantly working on their technique but are at the same time thinking about how it should be used in context. Taste isn't everything since one person's taste is completely different to another person's. The thing that I believe is most important is adaptability and keeping an open mind.

On this we agree. This is what I meant by serving the music instead of chops for the sake of chops.

It's like special FX in a movie. If it serves the story line and if it's done with that mindset, FX can make a good movie even better. All to often tho, FX are thrown in simply because of the flash factor and it appeals to the lowest common denominator in people.

The same idea applies to music, IMO. Use the "FX" to further the story you are trying to tell....not just because you can.

Agreed

I think I might have squeezed more than two cents worth in there huh

It was worth it at twice the price!;)

I should add that when I was saying motivation was unimportant I meant that it didn't matter what motives you to do something the end result can often be the same. Whether you are motivated by a want to stand out and be noticed or whether you are motivated by a desier to develop your musical vocabulary. I believe that it is purely subjective which of these motivations produces better or more sincere music, since that in itself is a subjective.

On the other hand if you aren't motivated to go as far with technique as other people and are happy with where you are and what you can do that is just as good as long as you have the tools you need to do what you want to do.

I think people that are more technical as well as people that are less technical should respect each other's approaches all the same and realise that both have potentially valuable contributions to make musically.

I should add that as long as the motivation is to serve the music, then I'm all for it. This is often not the case tho and sometimes painfully obvious.

Moderators, if there is already a thread like this please feel free to delete. Thanks.

[...]

Thread after thread and post after post of bass specs - string spacing here, weight there, neck radius here.... I started to feel like saying, "c'mon everyone, enough with the tech talk - let's play some music." I started to ask myself questions like, "who cares what bass you're playing, what songs have you written with it?"

YCBass,

There have been posts like this since at least when I started lurking in 2001. It may seem to you that people spend too much time talking about gear and not enough time making music and then sharing their 'making music' experience. Maybe it only seems that way because people don't report in after every great practice session or performance to say, 'just letting you all know I did some great scales and song writing this afternoon. I felt so good when I song those words I wrote about that girl I loved. Bye.'

Technical, esoteric, specialized discussions lend themselves well to indexed (searchable) Internet forums.

PS... don't worry about other peoples' progress with their music and you might feel a little less angst. Though maybe the serenity would have a negative impact on your songwriting.

If you read the "Bass" forum, you'll likely not come across a discussion on composition. If you frequent "off Topic" you won't find threads about quadruple thumping. If you go to the "Tabs'' forums you're probably not going to find many notated charts.

My point is, if you go to the right place here on TB you'll find what you may have thought was missing. In this section some people want to find out how to develope techniques, that doesn't mean they aren't concerned about composition any more that global warming, which also isn't discussed in this forum;)

I do think that the fact that participation is highest among the gear forums might give the impression that that's the primary concern. I don't take it that way. I think that it's much easier working on refining your craft with decent basic gear and that's what many are trying to find.

I also know that we play for all sorts of reasons. Many people don't want to spend the time and energy to do some of the things many of us take as mandatory... and that should be okay.

I know my gear very well. I've also worked on my technique and knowledge and gotten both to a level I'm comfortable with. I also understand how my instrument fits into the grand scheme of things. Just because I post in the "amps" forum (for example) and don't discuss the rest does not mean it's any lower or less of a priority.

If you read the "Bass" forum, you'll likely not come across a discussion on composition. If you frequent "off Topic" you won't find threads about quadruple thumping. If you go to the "Tabs'' forums you're probably not going to find many notated charts.

My point is, if you go to the right place here on TB you'll find what you may have thought was missing. In this section some people want to find out how to develope techniques, that doesn't mean they aren't concerned about composition any more that global warming, which also isn't discussed in this forum;)

I do think that the fact that participation is highest among the gear forums might give the impression that that's the primary concern. I don't take it that way. I think that it's much easier working on refining your craft with decent basic gear and that's what many are trying to find.

I also know that we play for all sorts of reasons. Many people don't want to spend the time and energy to do some of the things many of us take as mandatory... and that should be okay.

I know my gear very well. I've also worked on my technique and knowledge and gotten both to a level I'm comfortable with. I also understand how my instrument fits into the grand scheme of things. Just because I post in the "amps" forum (for example) and don't discuss the rest does not mean it's any lower or less of a priority.

Something we agree on completely. I also agree with Marcuss Willett's last post

This website is called Talkbass, therefore, in the context of this forum, talking about playing bass is generally more of a focus than playing music. Obviously it all comes down to playing music, as that is really (or at least is supposed to be) the final goal but a site like this is more specific than that.

If you don't care to talk about minute details concerning the technical aspects of bass playing, I suggest you not read threads relating to that.

I don't agree. If anything piano complicates theory in to 12 different "key" groupings with 12 different geometric approaches and suggests that some notes have precedence over others. Instruments like bass and guitar on the other hand are fully transpositional and once you have a sense of geometry for one "key" you can transpose it to another. The fact that every fret looks like every other one makes us concentrate on what is really important, interval relationships instead of diatonic "key" groupings. The only complication is the M3 interval between the G and B string on guitar.
See, I don't see just the key groupings you see when I look at a piano. I see sharps and flats, I see intervals, I see a graphic representation of every note, and I see equality. As Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder said, "Ebony and ivory, we're together in perf---eh, never mind.

Amazing how people's perceptions are so vastly different. I see the world of music opening up when I see a piano (even though I can barely play it), and you see limitations and hindrances.

This is where knowing a little piano comes in handy. Theory makes a ton more sense when you see it spelled out on a piano, whereas every fret on a guitar or bass looks like every other one.

I don't find anything disheartening anymore. If someone wants to buy basses so they can look at the pretty colors, God bless 'em! If someone wants to learn how to play bass, the material is available for them. Not like anyone's being deprived.

I agree with playing keyboard (which i am starting to 're-learn). it has helped a great deal with learning about chord structures and scales. Also helps with fingering.

Talking about gear isn't so bad when you consider that since everyones tastes are different.

Amazing how people's perceptions are so vastly different..

Ain't it tho? :D