I've decided to post this in the bluegrass forum since it's the closest thing available here to old-time.

Anyway, are there any old-time bass players here? I joined an old-time band back in May and it's been a great learning experience for me and I love the music. Simple (at least as far as my playing usually goes), but emotive. I've been listening to alot of Dirk Powell, Tim O'Brien, and Foghorn Stringband.

There's no bluegrass or old-time bass teachers in my area as far as I know, so there's not a real good way to learn more about the genre. Bluegrass is similar, but there seems to be a few differences.

I suppose that even though old-time doesn't traditionally utilize much slap, I should get that technique happening anyway.

Any other bassists jam any old-time out there that want to chime in?

Hey, I've been playing oldtime music for about 12 years now. I learned it the "right way" by playing non-stop at every festival I could find south of the Mason Dixon. It's not a complicated music but that's not to say it's not tricky getting just the right groove for all the different fiddling styles.
In some ways, it's simplicity is what makes it difficult. Very repetitive, almost mantra-like. Very strenuous, because you can play in "A" for hours on end. Very slippery, because if the groove ain't happening then the whole thing just doesn't work. I found that one way to get closer to the music is to take up another instrument like the banjo or the fiddle. That's when you really feel what you want the bass to be doing. When I'm fiddling and a bass player is not in the pocket, it actually hurts me deep in my cells. Another constraint of the music is "what do you play outside of 1-V? Lines are great if they keep the momentum going, but a poor note choice can stand out like no other music I've ever played. My advice is to get deep in the melodies and really learn the right chords. Dirk is great, I've played a bit with him. His take is fairly straight traditional with a healthy dose of hippy deep in the cracks. Of course someone has told you to listen to every Tommy Jarrell recording you can get your hands on but also get some Eck Robertson, Fiddlin' Arthur Smith, Melvin Wine, Fred Cockerham, Clark Kessinger, Roan Mountain Hilltoppers, Benton Flippen, Greg Hooven, Bruce Molsky, The Freighthoppers etc etc. Do not buy the fiddlers fakebook or any notated publication. Learn by ear and by playing. If you want to talk bass sometime just send me an email and if you are in Brooklyn sometime I'd be glad to give you a lesson on playing the music with authority. Good that you picked the Bluegrass forum for the oldtime topic. I suggest a healthy listen to Bluegrass, in particular the early stuff. There is so much overlap and a lot of good bass pickin' to check out. Oh, and on the slap comment. I slap whenever I want in oldtime and it works just fine. It's more a matter of how much and how tasteful. Nobody likes to hear someone slapping all night long, it loses it's appeal and starts to actually fence-in the groove. Use slap sparingly to differentiate different parts of the tune or to create a little more lift etc.

I have been play old time for almost 30 years now. It is my roots. Used to play the banjo and mountain dulcimer but went to bass 5 years ago after a long dry spell.
The best part about old time is you tend to learn a song very well after playing it for 30 minutes.

You might try to find some old time fiddle clubs in your area.

I take my cues from my favorite banjo players on the bass role(s) in oldtime music. For guitar and string bass I try to play a strong, obvious bass note with great big, round tone in the very center of the beat. I'm not thrashing around with accents or syncopation on either instrument. That means for me NEVER slapping even the tiniest bit. This is trance music and the various other percussion-y instruments do enough accents to make it "interesting". Bass lines just aren't an important part of this music. Being present in the moment on every beat and every note is what's most important.

Well, I guess I disagree only because I have been around players that slap with so much subtlety that it's actually very musical. Andy Deever, who played bass with Ralph Blizzard for years has this great little perididdle that she does to bring the tune around that makes the hair stand up on the back of your neck and your dance partner throw you for a loop. I don't think of it as trance music (but I know what you mean). To me it's dance music and whatever makes those dancers happy is fine by me. Richard Bowman (a fiddler who wins first fiddle in many southern festivals) has a little family group, The Slate Mountain Ramblers, and his wife Barbara slaps her bass almost the entire night. For me, it's a little much, but the truth of the matter is, they are one hot dance band and she drives the band like a devil. It has become preferred (in the homogenization of old time music for a mass audience) to smooth out all the edges of this creaky, cranky old music, but there are still as many ways to play it as there are players. If you go to a mountain dance in Southern Virginia you will hear all kinds of idiosyncratic bass playing. Some of it rocks while some of it just sounds wrong. But I'd never tell a bass player what to play and and not play when I'm the fiddler unless it was messing everyone up. I also take cues from the banjo at times but I tend to listen to all the players to see where the center of the groups beat is and then try to glue it all together so everyone feels comfortable to do their thing. And I guess I would say that I don't play in the center of the beat either, if anything I'm pushing that beat to the very front to get that driving forward roll. I think of my note as the tippy tip of the nose of the grill ornament on a big powerful car. This may be due to where I learned the music, in the North Carolina/Virginia Surry-Carroll County region. And I agree with the statement that "the basslines aren't very important in this music" if the basslines your talking about aren't very good ones.

I played in an old time string band for a few years (trying to start it back up) and knew virtually nothing of the genre at the beginning. I started listening to the Old Crow Medicine Show and quickly fell in love with this style of music (my fiance actually took me to see OCMS for my birthday last night)...I reccomend picking up their cds...Eutaw and OCMS are two great ones to practice along with.

as far to playing this style goes....it's about having fun so be sure that you approach it from that manner. most of the time it will be 2/4 or a 3/4 waltz beat so just learn to sit in the pocket and drive it (remember there's no drummer so you are the "bass drum" keeping everyone on so you don't have to be the center of attention)...I agree whole heartedly with the comment below about learning to take cues from the banjo player (or fiddler) because chances are they are going to be leading you....but remember HAVE FUN

oh and if you want to hear my old time string band check our my myspace page www.myspace.com/tonyneely and under my friends list click on The Algood Potato Association

be blessed,
Tony