OK, here's my problem:

whenever I rest my fingers on the strings (to mute the note, or just to help keep the groove) between notes, I get a gawdawful clank sound.

I'm not sure if it's the pickups distorting (probably not) or the strings hitting one of the frets somewhere on the neck.

this is especially evident when playing something syncopated.

for example:
www.orange-records.com/bass1/

take a listen.... all my mutes go "clank"

Before you say "your action is too low!"... it really isn't. maybe it's not quite set up right, but I have this problem no matter what my action is like... unless it's jamerson-high.

I realize that this is a poor technique issue, but I just can't seem to solve it.

No matter how hard I try, I cannot get this sorted out.

Any thoughts on:

- what I could possibly be doing with my action to sort it out other than just raising it (which doesn't work)

- how I can possibly train myself not to slap the strings, or do it differently (in fact I LIKE the percussive effect, but I just wish it wasn't so harsh sounding.... actually a tube amp solves this a bit because it saturates the highs a bit, but that's another story)

- you'll also hear in the demo that when I hit notes, i pluck down towards the bass instead of parallel.... which causes the same clank when actually playing the notes... (which seems to be 2 separate problems).. i simply cannot train myself to not do this.... how can I help this?

I've tried going to take a lesson to get this sorted out & the teacher said everything sounded fine to him. I think he's got wooden ears.

HELP!

I should also mention that I've been playing bass for 15 yrs & doing my own setups for just as long.

this problem has made it difficult for me to use a good quality amp (ie one that you can hear the highs with!)

Ok Im pretty sure what your doing accidentally is incorporating that slap technique where you smack the strings off the frets using your fretting hand to make it sound like your slapping faster. This happens to me sometimes on my double bass since the action is quite low (to make it a bit easier starting out) I over come it by simply focusing on my hand as it comes back on the string to mute it. I basically focus on bringing my hand back down on the strings with less force.

ok, well you had my thinking so I had to go check, and no, that's not what it is.. it's entirely right hand that's causing it. thanks for the good idea though !

raising my volume to force me to use a softer touch doesn't quite work, because i play that way anyways, just louder :)

Hi. I actually didn't have that kind of a problem, but my technique (right hand) was pretty bad too till recent. I had someone to show me the proper use of right hand, so that the same tone (for example) sound the same (volume, depth, etc.) on all strings. I suggest you to get a professional who will teach you how to use your right hand properly.

Other option might be some kind of a notch filter or maybe EL distressor - they say it has a feature which reduces the amount of this "clanking". I am not sure though, it's what I've read on web.

Hi. I actually didn't have that kind of a problem, but my technique (right hand) was pretty bad too till recent. I had someone to show me the proper use of right hand, so that the same tone (for example) sound the same (volume, depth, etc.) on all strings. I suggest you to get a professional who will teach you how to use your right hand properly.

ya, as I mentioned, I tried that... no help. there are very few good bass teachers arounf here, so that's why I was reaching out to the TB community.

Other option might be some kind of a notch filter or maybe EL distressor - they say it has a feature which reduces the amount of this "clanking". I am not sure though, it's what I've read on web.

nah, i don't want to eq it to get rid of the clank, i'll have to take a ton of frq's out. I need to clean up what I'm doing somehow & fix the problem at the source rather than try to band-aid it.

also, I had a distressor for quite some time - it's a compressor... it actually makes what I'm hearing worse

thanks for the advice!

Do you get this sound when you use other basses?

yep, some more, some less...

It sounds like you are using a pretty heavy hand, almost jamming the strings down as opposed to gliding across them.

Maybe higher tension strings (DR Lo-riders) or a longer scale bass would help if you like playing that way.

Have a pro set up your bass. Realize that it's like having a pro racing team set up your car and that you may have to accept the "way". Have them do one of your basses. Then play only that one. Perhaps the combination of your own setups and technique have limited your expression. Your technique may be accommodating your setups or vice versa. It's kinda of like breaking a habit so force yourself to play that one bass for a while and see if it helps.
Folks have found that their creativity has blossomed when they've rearranged their studio or practice or writing space.

They sound like ghost notes only with tempo issues.

Why not just clean up the tempo issue and leave them in?

I think what's happening is you're plucking down, not horizontally(in comparison to the bass.) When you pluck horizontally, the strings resonate parallel to the fretboard, but when you pluck down towards the bass, they hit the frets.

It sounds like you are using a pretty heavy hand, almost jamming the strings down as opposed to gliding across them.

+1

I used to have similar problems (not as bad as what you're describing). Focusing on playing lighter was the cure.

I find myself doing this when I want to play loud. Just turn up your amp a bit more, and use a lighter right hand touch.just grace the top of the strings with your fingers. If this doesn t work try a pick.

Hi.

I listened to your recording and can say that I had the exact same problem. The sound you're hearing is of the strings hitting the frets. As has been mentioned, this is because you're plucking towards the bass (ie towards the pickups), rather than upwards (towards the top of the bass).

Some people, like myself, kill themselves to get rid of this. It has taken me forever to get rid of it, and I'm still not really sure if I know what I'm doing in terms of every aspect of my technique, but I can avoid this clacking sound (sometimes I use it on purpose just for fun - gives a really aggressive sound).

Others, including notable bass players, just ignore it, or use it to their advantage. My knowledge of bass players is very limited, but I know that in metal, Steve Harris of Iron Maiden (I think he uses flatwound strings) and Alex Webster of Cannible Corpse, two very famous bassists, incorporate this into their playing style.

If you want to get rid of it, try playing upwards like I said (be sure to start VERY slow and NEVER to increase speed until you're doing it the way you want without any difficulty). The idea is that your fingers should never be straight, but rather "curved" towards the strings. Your hand should be in a position as if you were holding a tennis ball. This is hard and will take very long, especially if you're used to playing with your hand wide open (with straight fingers).

In my opinion, though, playing consistently with the "clack" sound is even harder to do, since a very slight difference in plucking power makes a huge difference in how loud the "clack" is. For example, listen to your recording again. The very first note you play (I assume this is an open E) has no clack sound, but the next time you play the open E it does.
Another bad thing about the "clacking" technique is that you only get the clack for notes you pluck with the right hand, so whenever you play a note and then hammer on or pull off to another note, that note sounds different (and is much quieter) because it doesn't get a "clack".

Hope this helps.

By the way you might want to check out the "Floating Thumb" stickied thread at the top of the forum, might as well learn two things if you're starting back from scratch anyway.
Of course, whatever works for you. A lot of bassists simply don't care, but I assume you do since you posted this.

Just to clarify, you were right in the original post when you said the clack happens when you mute, but it also happens when you pluck notes. Listen closely. The mutes are more obvious because there's no note being played at the same, but you can hear a "clack" even when you play notes.

By the way, are you muting higher strings (note-wise, which means lower gravity-wise) with the right hand? The usual way to mute higher strings is with the fretting hand.

Cheers

OK...a few things. Yes, you are making clacks with your left AND right hands.

How to minimize the right has already been mentioned. You have to attack the strings at an angle more parallel to the body...up, not "in".

For the left hand, let me give you a mental image that may help with your muting technique. You are bringing your hand down to mute. You are bringing it down rather hard, in fact. Stop that! ;) Think of the muting in this way instead: rest your left hand on the strings pretty much all the time, in a muting position. Bring your hand UP off the strings when you want to actually sound notes.

I know that's essentially just semantics, but it's also conceptual, and it may make your hand operate more subtly.

Lastly, keep in mind that you're solo'd up. When you're playing with a drummer, in all likelyhood, most, if not all of these "clacks" will occur on the beat, and be somewhat masked by the drums. Furthermore, I think you're also subconsciously keeping time with your "clacks", in lieu of any metronomic or rhythmic accompaniment. You may fine that when playing with a drummer, you instinctively do it less.

Have a pro set up your bass. Realize that it's like having a pro racing team set up your car and that you may have to accept the "way". Have them do one of your basses. Then play only that one. Perhaps the combination of your own setups and technique have limited your expression. Your technique may be accommodating your setups or vice versa. It's kinda of like breaking a habit so force yourself to play that one bass for a while and see if it helps.
Folks have found that their creativity has blossomed when they've rearranged their studio or practice or writing space.


I did bring it to a pro. his response was "I can't get it any better than you already have it".... :(

They sound like ghost notes only with tempo issues.

Why not just clean up the tempo issue and leave them in?

cheap slag aside, no, they are not ghost notes. they sound terrible.

I think what's happening is you're plucking down, not horizontally(in comparison to the bass.) When you pluck horizontally, the strings resonate parallel to the fretboard, but when you pluck down towards the bass, they hit the frets.

well, i'm mostly talking about the mutes, not the notes. I do realize that I have poor technique for the notes as well, but also if you read further down, I've tried to do that, and can't... i need some exercises or something because as soon as I get in a band situation it all goes to hell

Hi.

I listened to your recording and can say that I had the exact same problem. The sound you're hearing is of the strings hitting the frets.


yep, i know...

As has been mentioned, this is because you're plucking towards the bass (ie towards the pickups), rather than upwards (towards the top of the bass).

well, it not quite only that. I also have the problem with mutes as I mentioned.

I do realize that I pluck towards the bass (in fact I mentioned this in my OP), i KNOW what the problem is, I just can't seem to fix it. also, that doesn't solve the muting problem

Some people, like myself, kill themselves to get rid of this. It has taken me forever to get rid of it, and I'm still not really sure if I know what I'm doing in terms of every aspect of my technique, but I can avoid this clacking sound (sometimes I use it on purpose just for fun - gives a really aggressive sound).


THIS is the part i need help with... HOW.

Others, including notable bass players, just ignore it, or use it to their advantage. My knowledge of bass players is very limited, but I know that in metal, Steve Harris of Iron Maiden (I think he uses flatwound strings) and Alex Webster of Cannible Corpse, two very famous bassists, incorporate this into their playing style.


yep, i don't get it much if i use a tube amp... takes the edge off.... but like I said, I don't want to fix it with gear

By the way you might want to check out the "Floating Thumb" stickied thread at the top of the forum, might as well learn two things if you're starting back from scratch anyway.
Of course, whatever works for you. A lot of bassists simply don't care, but I assume you do since you posted this.


ya, i've actually tried that, hasn't helped so far... I think I just have 15 years of bad technique to counteract & I'm not quite sure how to do that

OK...a few things. Yes, you are making clacks with your left AND right hands.

no I'm not... we just went over that :)


Furthermore, I think you're also subconsciously keeping time with your "clacks", in lieu of any metronomic or rhythmic accompaniment. You may fine that when playing with a drummer, you instinctively do it less.


this is quote true - I do it to keep time somewhat, especially when playing by myself.... because it sort of seems like it needs it... I do it with a drummer as well though, and although it does somewhat dissapear, when I'm in a live situation it only gets worse & it has a tendency to sort of take over & sounds really, really bad

If you're not *trying* to slap, that's the hardest plucking style I've ever heard.

Do you have exposed pickup polepieces? Normally that kind of "clack" is made by the string hitting the polepiece. No matter how soft a hit it is, the magnet grabs the string for the last millimeter or so and WHAP. Very metallic, very loud, and very annoying. In the process, you're also smacking the string across the last fret. I have a J-bass that does this sometimes when I slap or play aggressively, and I alleviate it first by setting my neck pickup a bit lower than recommended, and second by painting the polepieces with a layer or two of clear nail polish. The nail polish, even when hard, is flexible and is not metal, so it will cushion the impact and provide that much extra space to lessen magnet pull at the point of contact.

You may indeed have the action set too low for your plucking style even though it's within manufacturer's spec. If you really dig in or pluck downward instead of across the string, you may need as much as 5/32" of space at the last fret to play cleanly (where the manual may suggest as little as 3/32" on the high strings). If the action already seems very high to you, check the neck relief and the nut depth. If the neck is too curved, notes around the fifth to seventh frets will have the least string height, because the neck relief is artifically raising action higher than necessary on the low frets. If the neck is too flat, you'll buzz. If the nut is cut too shallow, you will have a very high action on the open string, but the first fret will buzz, generally resulting in you adding neck relief or really cranking the strings up. If any of these are the case, your bass has been improperly set up; Do it correctly or, if you're not sure about what you're doing, take it to a competent luthier (I would definitely take it to a luthier if the nut is improperly cut; if he screws up he makes you a new nut, if you screw up you BUY a new nut). If all of this seems normal, the problem is you.

You're playing an ELECTRIC bass. You're plugged into an amp. Use it. Turn up the volume and you'll be able to play less forcefully and still be easily heard. Listening to your recording, you have a very low-gain sound (that may be the recording) with a very high-intensity plucking style. Work on relaxing your hands/arms while you play; even when you're slapping or playing something really technical, it should feel like you're pulling the sound out of the bass, not pushing it through the bass. Also work on plucking parallel to the bass, not into it. Bringing your finger down onto the string can easily result in you smacking the last fret with the string before you release it (and also causes fretbuzz as the note matures). Plucking crosswise means the string vibrates more parallel to the body and to the pickups, giving more clearance. You'll find that doing this gives you a smoother, more "cool cat" sound when playing fingerstyle, but you can still dig in a bit more for some dynamic expression and of course you can slap it for the same zing. If your amp or whatever you play through has a compressor, DON'T use it to practice! It's good in performance to help keep your volume steady, but while you're practicing a compressor is a crutch; it lessens the impact of mistakes in plucking, with the result that you get lazy with your plucking. Turn the compressor off, turn the amp up and work on developing a smooth, even plucking technique.

In addition to plucking "upwards" with curved fingers as opposed to "towards", you should try moving your plucking hand back and forth from as close to the bridge as is playable for you, up to around the 15th or so fret.

The idea is to get a feel for the kind of "pull and release" that you'll need to get on the string in in all of those various positions.

Note the alterations in tone, dynamic range, etc., and find the "sweet spot" where the tension feels just right.

That's the thing too, when you pluck do you find that you're kind of striking the strings as opposed to pulling and releasing them?

As far as Left-Hand muting goes, here's something I've been doing to great effect for a while:

Use the combined surface area of at least 2 or 4 fingers at the most with a light touch upon the strings, and not bringing them straight down but kind of "gliding" down at a slight angle (best way I can describe it).

Finally, listen for anything strange when you lift your finger up from fretting a note. Of course, taking your finger off the string doesn't take much effort to do but some have found that at least some buzzing would occur until they found a way to work that out of their technique.

In addition to plucking "upwards" with curved fingers as opposed to "towards", you should try moving your plucking hand back and forth from as close to the bridge as is playable for you, up to around the 15th or so fret.

The idea is to get a feel for the kind of "pull and release" that you'll need to get on the string in in all of those various positions.

Note the alterations in tone, dynamic range, etc., and find the "sweet spot" where the tension feels just right.

That's the thing too, when you pluck do you find that you're kind of striking the strings as opposed to pulling and releasing them?

As far as Left-Hand muting goes, here's something I've been doing to great effect for a while:

Use the combined surface area of at least 2 or 4 fingers at the most with a light touch upon the strings, and not bringing them straight down but kind of "gliding" down at a slight angle (best way I can describe it).

Finally, listen for anything strange when you lift your finger up from fretting a note. Of course, taking your finger off the string doesn't take much effort to do but some have found that at least some buzzing would occur until they found a way to work that out of their technique.

i think i've said a number of times... it's not my left hand.

Try playing closer to the bridge. If you watch the Jaco videos on youtube you can see how close he plays to the bridge. He states that he plays close to the bridge becuase the string tension is highest there and it allows him to dig in a bit more. Just move your right hand right up, close to your bridge and see if that works.

suggestion:

try spending some time playing your usual songs, but with the softest, baby-light touch you could possibly imagine. then try playing it normally again. does it make a difference? could just be your dynamics? i don't know! haha

Try practicing acoustically (no amp at all). This should allow you to more easily isolate the movements that are causing you a problem.

I worked hard for years to solve this problem, which I developed way back when early amps made it hard to hear yourself at all on stage. I think I developed a "slap" style just to keep myself located in the mix!

My solution has been to keep my right hand as busy as ever, often above the strings, but focus more carefully and deliberately on when and how I actually make string contact. It should of course become second nature after a bit. Good luck! Tom

I can tell you this: It's a combination of your left and right hand, actually. But obviously more your right.

Where your left hand comes in is here: After you play/fret the fretted note, are you lifting your finger off the note (while keeping it muted) with your left hand? If not, you're, in fact, lowering your action (by fretting the note), therefore making it more succeptable to clack sounds. It seems arbitrary, but it's completely relevant. It does make a difference. So in a nutshell, for grooves such as the one you posted, only fret the note when you need to physically play it. At any other time, your left hand should be resting over the strings, muting them.

Your right hand is heavy. Period. If you're in love with your action, think about moving your hand towards the bridge more, as mentioned earlier. This gives you more tension to work with, and less potential for 'clack.'

You're a very groove/rhythmically oriented player, and so your left hand mutes the notes in rhythm as well. Most of the time (I presume), pretty deliberately, sounding a 'clack' as a result, in between the played notes. These are fine, in context, but for now, you're trying to rid yourself of all the 'clack' you can, so you may want to think about not doing this.

Start muting in this manner: by stopping the note with the finger you didn't pluck it with. Lightly, and as across the string (instead of down with) as you can. Simple exercises, such as playing a quarter note, followed by a quarter note rest (mute), quarter note, quarter note rest (mute), etc. Once you get this principle, you can start incorporating it with the music you play.

If I have recommended something that you're already doing, I apoligize. I can't physically see you play your instrument. All of this taken into account, you should be on your way to 'clack' free playing.

Andrew

I used to have a somewhat similar problem, although for me, it was my fretting hand. I would use it to add percussive slaps. For funky stuff, it added some syncopation, but for everything else it just got in the way.

I got rid of it by playing with normal attack and amp volume, but playing every line very slowly and focusing on my left hand and what it was doing at all times. It's a simple idea, and you may have already tried it, but if not, give it a go.

Spend an hour playing a number of lines (especially ones that you notice this the most) very slowly and focus on your right hand.

Better yet, videotape your right hand while you do it. If you can't identify and remove it yourself, take the tape to an instructor in your area or post it on You Tube and let us TBers take a look at it. That's the best advice I can give considering that I can't see you play.

I can hear exactly what you are doing, I used to do the same thing.

You are muting the notes with a slapping motion instead of just touching the string. One thing you can do is to try playing more with the tips of your fingers, a bit closer to the bridge. Also, lift your fingers as little as possible, and pluck the strings instead of striking them.

Gary Willis is famous for his incredibly light touch and his amazing muting technique. He recommends practicing this by playing lightly and slowly, muting each note as fast as possible. Pluck (don't strike) a note with your index finger, and mute it with your middle finger as quickly as possible. Leave the middle in place until the next quarter note, then pluck with the middle and quickly mute with the index. Leave the index in place until the next quarter note. Do this very slowly with a metronome for several minutes and you will gain a lot of control over the vibration of the string.

He has a couple of right-hand video lessons here:
http://garywillis.com/pages/lessons/rh1.html
http://garywillis.com/pages/lessons/rh2.html

You probably don't want to emulate his three-finger approach, but the light touch and economy of motion is a great thing to learn.

I like clank. I use a set of 95-40 strings (4 string) and tune down to D. I liek to use overdrive a lot and I ppick hard to make my strings clank more.

I'm also a Meshuggah fan!! :D

I can hear exactly what you are doing, I used to do the same thing.

You are muting the notes with a slapping motion instead of just touching the string. One thing you can do is to try playing more with the tips of your fingers, a bit closer to the bridge. Also, lift your fingers as little as possible, and pluck the strings instead of striking them.

Gary Willis is famous for his incredibly light touch and his amazing muting technique. He recommends practicing this by playing lightly and slowly, muting each note as fast as possible. Pluck (don't strike) a note with your index finger, and mute it with your middle finger as quickly as possible. Leave the middle in place until the next quarter note, then pluck with the middle and quickly mute with the index. Leave the index in place until the next quarter note. Do this very slowly with a metronome for several minutes and you will gain a lot of control over the vibration of the string.

He has a couple of right-hand video lessons here:
http://garywillis.com/pages/lessons/rh1.html
http://garywillis.com/pages/lessons/rh2.html

You probably don't want to emulate his three-finger approach, but the light touch and economy of motion is a great thing to learn.

that's what I do... i do pluck (not striking them) ... i mute with the next finger.... it's just that when I have a rhythmic thing going, I sort of hit the strings between notes as a mute but also as a rhythmic effect ... that I can't stop :)

From the soundclip, it does sound like you're approaching the string from a distance.

Or it could be that if you are playing fairly close to the neck, when you mute it your fingers end up pushing down on the string a little, making it hit against the end of the fretboard.

Try playing closer to the bridge and see if you get less of that clank clank noise.

I know you'll shake your head at this, but I was able to re-create your issue by turning up my ultra high end. Try using a graphic EQ and bring the last slider all the way down. Compensate by bringing the mids up a bit. I can make it come and go just by turning the EQ on my amp on and off.

have you tried muting it with the meat of your hand where the thumb meets the palm?
Works for me.

have you tried muting it with the meat of your hand where the thumb meets the palm?
Works for me.

i have no idea how that's possible with the right hand. if you're talking about the left hand, you haven't read the 4x i've said it's not the left hand :)

I know you'll shake your head at this, but I was able to re-create your issue by turning up my ultra high end. Try using a graphic EQ and bring the last slider all the way down. Compensate by bringing the mids up a bit. I can make it come and go just by turning the EQ on my amp on and off.

I don't understand... increase the treble?

ok, you're right, i'm shaking my head :)

how would this work? that

I don't understand... increase the treble?

ok, you're right, i'm shaking my head :)

how would this work? that

oh, you mean turn the ultra high end all the way DOWN?

nah, then I lose all the nice treble in my sound... plus it doesn't get rid of it... also, I want to fix the problem rather than mask it....

From the soundclip, it does sound like you're approaching the string from a distance.

Or it could be that if you are playing fairly close to the neck, when you mute it your fingers end up pushing down on the string a little, making it hit against the end of the fretboard.

Try playing closer to the bridge and see if you get less of that clank clank noise.

no, i'm not playing near the neck.. i play over the bridge pickup. if i play RIGHT at the bridge, sure it helps, but i don't like playing 1cm away from the bridge


I'm not approaching the strings from a distance.

AGAIN..... it's the MUTING that is the biggest problem....

gosh, I love that 'clank' sound so much. It's why I started playing bass. I heard it in a recording, asked" wow, what IS making that awesome noise??" (knowing nothing about music at that point, I figured it was some sort of ride cymbal or something) Once someone told me it was the bass, I knew that I HAD to play bass.

Anyhow, I can't even understand how other people don't like it :confused: haha

i have no idea how that's possible with the right hand. if you're talking about the left hand, you haven't read the 4x i've said it's not the left hand :)

I am talking right hand.

It involves keep your thumb parallel of your other fingers, after you pluck a string, mute it with that part of your thumb/hand meat. Its similar to the floating thumb technique.

I am talking right hand.

It involves keep your thumb parallel of your other fingers, after you pluck a string, mute it with that part of your thumb/hand meat. Its similar to the floating thumb technique.

i still can't see how i would pluck the g string & then mute it with the part of my hand where my thumb meets my hand...

i guess i just can't bend that way :)

no, i'm not playing near the neck.. i play over the bridge pickup. if i play RIGHT at the bridge, sure it helps, but i don't like playing 1cm away from the bridge


I'm not approaching the strings from a distance.

AGAIN..... it's the MUTING that is the biggest problem....

How low is your action?

Do you mean when you mute the string with one of your right fingers to end a note's sustain, it creates a clank noise?

Check to see if the clank noise is caused from the string hitting the last fret on the fretboard, or the end of the fretboard. Also check that the string isn't hitting the pickup, or your fingers aren't hitting the pickup, making a noise.

Maybe you could post a soundclip of just that, a note sustaining, and then it being muted.

i still can't see how i would pluck the g string & then mute it with the part of my hand where my thumb meets my hand...

i guess i just can't bend that way :)
You've got to move your arm for it to work:hmm:

Honestly though, look into the real floating thumb technique. My way was my solution to thumb muting before I knew it existed. Its nowhere near as economical as the floating thumb, but it works just as well.

You've got to move your arm for it to work:hmm:

Honestly though, look into the real floating thumb technique. My way was my solution to thumb muting before I knew it existed. Its nowhere near as economical as the floating thumb, but it works just as well.


I mentioned earlier in this thread that I had tried the floating thumb

that's what I do... i do pluck (not striking them) ... i mute with the next finger.... it's just that when I have a rhythmic thing going, I sort of hit the strings between notes as a mute but also as a rhythmic effect ... that I can't stop :)

Yeah, I can hear that. Seriously, check out the Willis videos. He has made a science out of eliminating all unnecessary movement and noise. He uses extremely low action and a very bright sound, and you never hear clanks or squeaks unless he wants you to.

I think you are doing the right things, you just need to slow it down and really watch what you are doing. Pick a single note, and try to play/mute quarter notes at 50bpm, making sure each note is absolutely quiet and clean, both where it starts (pluck) and where it ends (mute). Do this for a few minutes and you'll start to feel what a gentle mute should feel like. Your fingers should move very little.

Yeah, I can hear that. Seriously, check out the Willis videos. He has made a science out of eliminating all unnecessary movement and noise. He uses extremely low action and a very bright sound, and you never hear clanks or squeaks unless he wants you to.

I think you are doing the right things, you just need to slow it down and really watch what you are doing. Pick a single note, and try to play/mute quarter notes at 50bpm, making sure each note is absolutely quiet and clean, both where it starts (pluck) and where it ends (mute). Do this for a few minutes and you'll start to feel what a gentle mute should feel like. Your fingers should move very little.

ok, i'll check out the video for sure.

I think my problem is that I instinctively want to create the noise, or I use it as a crutch or something like that.... when I play softly, i don't get that groove that i get by whacking the strings... know what I mean?

I do know what you mean...
A lot of good players use that mute-clank to help the groove, but then you need to practice controlling and placing it rhythmically. It's a bit like the slap technique used by some upright players to outline the backbeat.

Whatever you want to do, I think slow single-note exercises can get you the control you need.
Try playing a groove where you deliberately make the mute-clank sound like the snare drum. Then play the same groove with a completely silent mute. If you can go back and forth smoothly, you'll have another tool to add to your arsenal.

I do know what you mean...
A lot of good players use that mute-clank to help the groove, but then you need to practice controlling and placing it rhythmically. It's a bit like the slap technique used by some upright players to outline the backbeat.

Whatever you want to do, I think slow single-note exercises can get you the control you need.
Try playing a groove where you deliberately make the mute-clank sound like the snare drum. Then play the same groove with a completely silent mute. If you can go back and forth smoothly, you'll have another tool to add to your arsenal.

ok, I'll try working on that. I'd really like to get it under control, because it really takes away from my tone a lot (esp if there is a compressor involved)

gosh, I love that 'clank' sound so much. It's why I started playing bass. I heard it in a recording, asked" wow, what IS making that awesome noise??" (knowing nothing about music at that point, I figured it was some sort of ride cymbal or something) Once someone told me it was the bass, I knew that I HAD to play bass.

Anyhow, I can't even understand how other people don't like it :confused: haha

I like it too. Its actually part of MY personal tone, but its just a preference. I can play clank-free if need be, as well.

Mostly, its in my right hand technique. I made it a point to have clean left hand technique, but my plucking hand has a buncha tricks under its belt.

You may know this already, and of course you have more insight into what you're doing than I do, but I believe most of the plucking hand clack comes not from the string plucked, but from the string that the finger comes to rest upon: for example, if you hear a clack when you play the A string, you're hearing the E string clack against the frets from the force of your finger coming to rest on it.

I have the same issue, if i play percussive i hit the strings and i play into the body at a 45 degree or so angle, still trying to find higher tension strings to reduce it.

I found that screwing the pickups further into the body helped a lot, as the 'pop' noise (which was similar to yours) was coming from the strings hitting the exposed pole peices. if the poles on your p'ups aren't exposed that's something to rule out i suppose.

Good luck finding out what it is, hopefully it's a string tension or setup issue; preferably something easiy fixed :ninja:

I do it on purpose, and my favorite bass players all do it as well- Geezer, Geddy and Harris. But it is an effect and I can keep it out of my playing if I want (I enjoy jazz on my fretless) by using a light touch and economy of motion during fast segments, but in a rock context I think it adds a lot! It's kinda like distortion in a bass track- not always the best sounding solo'd, but in the mix of the band it can add serious fullness to a track. At certain times I purposely strike the strings from a vertical postion with my fingers and I can really bring out the harmonics and lose much of the fundamental for effect. Works great when you're droning away playing eighth notes on only one note and adding "color" in a trio.

Props to you for posting your thread and music for everyone to analyze your playing. Most that are here criticizing probably wouldn't have the stones to post their own playing solo'd. Just being aware of what you're doing has already put you on the path that you wanted to be on. Don't be too hard on yourself, the greatest rock bassists (IMHO) have a VERY heavy right hand and play with their fingers.

I remember being down on myself for this very same thing, and then walking into a first lesson with a new instructor that immediately complimented me on my tone- he wanted my thicker hands/fingers. After that I realized when used in the right context it was a big positive, and created big tone. But it does have its place, and it's important to use a different technique when the music calls for it.

You can also find where it sits and minimize it with EQ as has been suggested, but then you're just running around the issue.

I also remember reading an interview about 2 years ago with one of jazz music's most sought after upright players of our day who currently battles the same issue. He's having NO trouble getting gigs, so it can't be that bad! ;)

I think what's happening is you're plucking down, not horizontally(in comparison to the bass.) When you pluck horizontally, the strings resonate parallel to the fretboard, but when you pluck down towards the bass, they hit the frets.

+1

You may know this already, and of course you have more insight into what you're doing than I do, but I believe most of the plucking hand clack comes not from the string plucked, but from the string that the finger comes to rest upon: for example, if you hear a clack when you play the A string, you're hearing the E string clack against the frets from the force of your finger coming to rest on it.

yes, i completely agree. in fact, it's happening at both times (plucking and resting). the resting one bigme the most, because it doesn't happen when a note happens (in fact it happens when a note STOPS), and makes my bass playing sound messy.

also, the clank sound is VERY sharp sounding & is loud enough to hit the compressor when i use one. there is little else in this frequency range & it's very prominent.

+1

I'll agree with this to a point.... certainly I do this (I'm having an EXTREMELY hard time training myself to not). I'm not sure if this is the case when my fingers rest on the strings & make a clank sound thoi...

Have you considered flats, actually? (or are you using them? 3:30am on night shift -- not reading too well, haha)

What I will say is your clank sounds EXACTLY like something I've been trying to add to my technique for ages. Instead of playing muted notes by plucking normally (and getting a dull thud), play them by tapping the string downwards over the neck pickup with the flat of my finger (slapping, basically). I don't see how this sound can be caused by much else apart from the string vertically hitting the last fret.

There was a video on here a while ago about improving your right hand style. What's your posture like? If you rest your elbow on the bass when you play and have your wrist at an angle try lifting your arm up and keeping your wrist straight. This makes it a lot easier to keep your fingertips paralel to the strings so that you can dig in without string noise. I always make sure to maintain this posture when I want to play without clack, but I usually bend my wrist back a bit if I want to beat the **** out of my strings ;)

If you're having problems doing this, then practice slowly. I can't suggest anything else -- you've got it in muscle memory to play like that, so you need to re-learn it.

Sorry if this isn't any help, but this is my 2c anyway ;)

bump

well, i'm mostly talking about the mutes, not the notes. I do realize that I have poor technique for the notes as well, but also if you read further down, I've tried to do that, and can't... i need some exercises or something because as soon as I get in a band situation it all goes to hell

Well, your problem is there, you say you can't, it's not true, You learned to play with a wrong technique from the start, now when you are in a band situation you just go back to the way you used to play because it's more practical and you are faster because you practiced more.

The truth is that, there is no way, that you'll get away with plucking the strings towards the bass and not get clank, there is no way. So you are bassicly starting over and you just need to practice till you get it right.

Just practice plucking parallel, everyone does it, pros do it, it is just the way you need to play if you want a clean sound. The only people actually plucking towards the bass want clank, it is the way to get that sound that a lot of metal and hard rock player uses, the same sound you are trying to get rid of.

It sounds alot like you are unconsciously (involuntarily) slapping your hand down on the strings between notes to me, definitely a technique issue.

It sounds alot like you are unconsciously slapping your hand down on the strings between notes to me, definitely a technique issue.

No argument, I kNOW that's what I'm doing. I do it to help feel the rhythm and to mute notes. NOT doing it is extremely difficult for me after 15 or so years playing

No argument, I kNOW that's what I'm doing. I do it to help feel the rhythm and to mute notes. NOT doing it is extremely difficult for me after 15 or so years playing

Try JUST the notes you are intending play and concentrate on that, I used to do the very same thing.

Well, your problem is there, you say you can't, it's not true, You learned to play with a wrong technique from the start, now when you are in a band situation you just go back to the way you used to play because it's more practical and you are faster because you practiced more.

The truth is that, there is no way, that you'll get away with plucking the strings towards the bass and not get clank, there is no way. So you are bassicly starting over and you just need to practice till you get it right.

Just practice plucking parallel, everyone does it, pros do it, it is just the way you need to play if you want a clean sound. The only people actually plucking towards the bass want clank, it is the way to get that sound that a lot of metal and hard rock player uses, the same sound you are trying to get rid of.


true. well said. I know what the problem is & I know what has to be done to fix it :)

that being said, there are a couple of things that are making the problem worse on a particular bass I have, and I think it's mainly the pickups. It's almost like they zone in on the worst part of the sound & amplify it & make it as annoying as possible. In fact, I've heard this about the fender noiseless pickups.

My warwick thumb doesn't have nearly the same problem & it's enirely manageable. the jazz custom shop, it's terrible.... or perhaps it's the electronics, i don't know. any exerience here from anyone would be great

No argument, I kNOW that's what I'm doing. I do it to help feel the rhythm and to mute notes. NOT doing it is extremely difficult for me after 15 or so years playing
What you need to do is practice laying your hand on the strings without pressing them down. Just trying to avoid the click is kind of a negative exercise that I don't think is going to be as effective. But I bet you'll see results if you start you metronome going and lie your hand quietly on the strings each beat, then later on start alternating notes and mutes. Make sure you use your regular plucking style. You probably won't be able to manifest it in your regular playing right away, but I don't see any reason you can't beat up on the strings any way you like yet mute silently.