I apologize if this isn't the appropriate forum to place this thread in, but since I'm specifically asking about bluegrass/old-time technique, I figured it would expedite replies by directing right to this forum.

Is there an accepted right hand technique for bluegrass/old-time playing? Do you play with a jazz type pizz (fingers almost perpendicular to the strings, pointing down towards the bridge) or more parallel/across the strings? I tried to find some pics to illustrate what I mean, but no dice. Hopefully it's pretty self-explanatory.

I'm doing a bit of a mix of the two, depending on the tune, but I've seen images and videos of bluegrass bassists playing with the parallel to the strings pizz technique. Just looking for some thoughts, as there aren't really bluegrass bass instructors in my neck o' the woods.

Thanks!

I don't think that proper pizz technique changes with musical genres. The more of your finger you can get on the string, the better the tone. I've also found that many bluegrass bassists are self-taught and don't necessarily use a technique that would be considered "proper." Regardless, I've seen those that play "improperly" that achieve a tone I wish I could get! Unfortunately, others play amped and end up playing their upright bass with their fingertips, letting the amplifier create the sound and tone for them. To me, they end up sounding pretty much like bass guitars, which makes me wonder why they don't just bring a BG to begin with.

I use the side of my finger on an angle, not quite parallel with the strings. It gives me the best tone that way. Usually the people plucking perpendicularly are recently converted slab players. :)

Use as much of your fingers that you can get on the string. I try to get the first 2 joints of the index finger on and at least the first joint of the middle on. Sometimes there isn't enough time on a really fast one to do this. Also then playing long runs I tend to use the ends of the fingers to play.
Thinking about the hand the knuckle closest the palm is the strongest and using it causes the least fatigue to the hand.
This playing technique has served me well even at 6 in the morning after playing since 7 the night before.

Get as much finger on the string as possible and pull it using your arm and shoulder rather than just the finger. This will give you BIG sound with less effort.

Like Guf, I have heard some guys with horrible technique get good tone but most of them are flailing away like mad to get that sound. Developing proper technique is certainly a labor saving investment.

I see a lot of players use 2 fingers perpendicular to the strings -- I've tried it and it works well, but don't last long because my callouses aren't built up there. If you use it higher up on the fingerboard you can get a deep rich tone, but it looses some of the thump and doesn't get as much of the actual note... Give it a shot, I like using it.

I count myself fortunate for having had some formal training on DB (not enough though... I'll be back to lessons when I can afford them again). One of the first things my teacher had me do when I got my string bass was to use more of my finger, as opposed to electric bass, and to let it strike the fingerboard on the down-stroke to get some percussive sound. So during instrumental parts I do that to get more tone & volume, but during vocal sections I've fallen back on the fingertips technique (though I try to still thump the fingerboard on the down-stroke). I was curious as I've seen bluegrass players use this style in pictures and videos, and I wasn't sure if it was a stylistic thing or just a lack of formal training. I agree that it can be a bit of a challenge to use alot of finger on fast passages, but if the hot-shot jazz cats do it, so can a bluegrass/old-time bassist.

It seems I've gotten some excellent responses here so far... thank you!

...and to let it strike the fingerboard on the down-stroke to get some percussive sound.This technique may add something to some of the songs you play, but it may also cause you problems in studio. If you use a pickup or are mic'd, that "little" percussive sound can overwhelm your bass line and make recording difficult. You might consider practicing by cleanly engaging the string and making sure to pull it parallel to the curve of the fingerboard so all you hear is string vibration. You can always add the clicks & slaps back in, but there are situations (and songs) where you won't want them.

I count myself fortunate for having had some formal training on DB (not enough though... I'll be back to lessons when I can afford them again). One of the first things my teacher had me do when I got my string bass was to use more of my finger, as opposed to electric bass, and to let it strike the fingerboard on the down-stroke to get some percussive sound. So during instrumental parts I do that to get more tone & volume, but during vocal sections I've fallen back on the fingertips technique (though I try to still thump the fingerboard on the down-stroke). I was curious as I've seen bluegrass players use this style in pictures and videos, and I wasn't sure if it was a stylistic thing or just a lack of formal training. I agree that it can be a bit of a challenge to use alot of finger on fast passages, but if the hot-shot jazz cats do it, so can a bluegrass/old-time bassist.

It seems I've gotten some excellent responses here so far... thank you!

I use ONLY my index finger on the right hand and with the index pointing downward toward the bridge, getting the most meat on the string. I dont' know if this is proper technique or not, but it's how I play.

I do get pretty good tone and volume that way, can't do much with the pads of the fingers perpindicular to the strings. But my son can get good tone that way.

To me, I can understand how someone coming to the double bass from a slab bass background could get trapped into playing with the pads across the strings. The pickups of a slab bass do most all the work and very little effort is required to make sound. The double bass is a physical instrumet to play and you have to be physical in your playing style to get the sound out of it. The sound has to be produced.

Not trying to mis-inform or mis-lead anyone here, or be critical of other's playing styles, this is just what works for me.

I am a very aggressive player. On the simple "thump-thump" passages I find that my finger is pointed downward at times, but when I walk or do runs I always use the tips of my fingers. It's the only way I can get any speed. I reckon it's from all those years of playing electric bass. But, like I said, I play aggressively and I still get lots of volume and thump when I use my finger tips. I have compared the volume using both tecniques and can't tell a lot of difference, so I am satisfied with the style I use. It probably won't work for most people, though.

It comes down to personal preference I think, but as other posters have nicely pointed out, different techniques yield different results and require different amounts of stamina.

I come from an old-school jazz background so I use the meaty part, basically the side, of the index finger, with the middle finger behind it as reinforcement, ie the classic jazz pizz.

BUT, there are occasions when playing BG/OT when I feel it's necessary to add some slap -- and this is usually only if the guitar/mando aren't pulling their weight on the 2 and 4, and maybe once in a while just to change the song up for a chorus or two -- in this case I'm making more of a "hook" with my 2 fingers and it ends up more of a pulling on the string from behind, with more of a perpendicular angle, but still using some of the meaty side of finger. Changing the angle this way is not necessarily a conscious choice; it's more an organic movement that makes the whole routine a little more efficient, so I'm not having to change the angle of attack between every pluck and slap.

Oh, and often when playing bluegrass (but not always old time), I will make a slap *movement* without actually slapping -- I'm just stopping the strings on the 2 and 4. Makes for a nice subtle way to tighten up the rhythm without being obnoxious.

And one more edit:
about the "percussive sound" mentioned above, where the finger hits the fingerboard after hitting the string, I have always done this too, and maybe it's because I use the Realist pickup which doesn't catch much beyond the fundamental, but it does not overwhelm the sound when plugged in. I was actually just listening to the 'Bluegrass Album Band plays Bill Monroe' album, and the bass player on that record, whoever he is, does this too.

I see a lot of players use 2 fingers perpendicular to the strings -- I've tried it and it works well, but don't last long because my callouses aren't built up there. If you use it higher up on the fingerboard you can get a deep rich tone, but it looses some of the thump and doesn't get as much of the actual note... Give it a shot, I like using it.

Just a note; I did not mean two fingers alternating, like in fast scale passages. I mean two fingers (index and middle) simultaneously plucking the string.

The bassist from Detour plays like this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/farlane/213927200/

That's what I was talking about with the fingers parallel to the strings... like the Detour guy. Although I hold my bass in a more classical/jazz/proper way, and not away from my body like I see some bluegrass bass players do.

Like I mentioned, I currently play both that way (during the singing) and the full-fingers-on-the-strings/jazz pizz during the instrumental parts. But perhaps I should keep to the jazz pizz style. I wasn't sure if there was a different pizz technique for bluegrass/old-time or something, but it doesn't necessarily sound that way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tLzyuiUUzI
Check out Mike Bub's right hand in this clip with Steve Earle & Del McCoury. Mike's percussive techniques definitely are not for beginners, but the clip is a great lesson in muscular bluegrass playing.

Lots of good info in this thread and just wanted to add my own two cents and observations.
I also pull the string mostly with my idex finger pretty much parallel to the string. I was shown this technique by a jazz player that I took some lessons from and it made a big difference in my tone. He was amazingly talented and could play some mighty quick passages this way using just his index finger and still get great tone. He played on gut strings and pulled more from the shoulder rather than just plucking the string by moving his finger. He got good tone by moving the string with a wider sweep. I've also read an article where Barry Bales said it's important to "move some air" to get a good sound. I tend to use my second finger on quicker or synchopated stuff but can get by pretty well with just the index finger at most any tempo when just playing the standard 1-5 type bluegrass beat.
I didn't have as many opportunities to really watch other bluegrass bassists when I lived "up north", and its been an eyeopener to observe the younger guys that are playing here in the southeast. Alot of them are playing awesome synchopated runs and fills, but they seem to accomplish this by using the fingertips perpendicular to the strings. Granted, alot of the players I've seen were playing amplified in a concert situation where they could be heard when playing like this. But, like Mike & Cathead mentioned I've seen guys who could pull it off acoustically too and still get good volume and tone.
I guess what it comes down to in my mind is keep practicing and do what works for you, and keep in mind that timing and tone are of the greatest importance as opposed to trying to play alot of fancy runs and fills.
Just as an aside, I got to meet Mike Ramsey at IBMA last month and hear him play. He was hanging out and jamming with all the young guys and holding his own like there was nothing to it- sounded great on that big ole American Standard. You can certainly take his bass playing advice to the bank as far as I'm concerned.

Being fairly new to bass I can tell you Mike Bub is the guy for me to watch and study…his right hand technique is so smooth (I miss seeing him with Del!). I have had the pleasure of meeting him, watching him close up and he even offered his bass to me to play at a jam…whoa!...back away from that moment quickly! The best advice I have gotten on bass is “less is more”. I was once told “nobody should notice you until you are not doing what you should be doing”…if that make sense.

Another great upright and electric bluegrass player is Byron House. He is quite versatile and can hold it down when jamming with the likes of Bela, Sam, and Jerry…if yawl know those guys. :p

Another great upright and electric bluegrass player is Byron House.

Is he the one who plays the fretless electric with Sam? His intonation is incredible.

That's him. He made a series of videos with Andy Leftwich and Cody Kilby playing some of Andy's compositions. It is impressive to watch him switch between two or three techniques as the tune calls for it. The videos used to be available on CMT.com.

Thanks for the Steve Earle/Del McCoury video.
What strikes me most about Mike Bub's playing is:

- how he listens to the music when he plays and adapts accordingly rather than lay a style over whatever is being played

- how he gets the most sound he can from his bass with each note. That comes from his attack and using the side of the index finger below the first joint and providing the power from the shoulder on down.

The best advice for the right hand that I have seen came from somebody's signature on a post somewhere. It applies to the LEFT hand and shows that you need BOTH hands to be working together: " Attack it. Finger it. Squeeze it"