the guitarist in the band i just joined seems to think that ALL of my bassline should follow his guitar or the other guitarist's. I'm not down with that, because i like matching the drums and guitar and having my own independent thing for a fill. But he thinks ALL of it should match.
Is he right and i'm just being foolish?
or what??

i say do what you want though, he shouldnt be the one to dictate what you play:hmm:.

I do follow our rhythm guitarist for the most part but then again they do let me have my moment and i have thrown in some very nice fills i even have a nice solo in one of the songs

the guy's an idiot. If anything, he should be following you!!

I despise following the guitar line...it's so simple and ignorant. Bass is so much more than that. I often make a groove that follows both the drums and voice and make sure that it HARMONIZES with the guitar. There is a difference between harmonizing with someone and following someone. When you harmonize, you make sure to play in key, follow the scale, and try to stick to the chord changes.

I'm no pro, but I'm pretty sure that's how it goes.

Depends on the song/music. A lot of metal, rock and punk wouldn't work if the bass was too different from the guitar.

If it's a rule, I ought to be in prison...:hiding:

If it's a rule, I ought to be in prison...:hiding:

Big +1 on that one dude, id be in san quentin on death row.

It can depend on what type of music you're playing. I find that in lots of rock and metal bands the bass will often follow the guitar, but it's never for 100% of the time. If the band is more bluesy or jazzy, bass and guitar lines are for the most part independant.

The important thing is just play to serve the song.

In music theory, there's a thing called "independence of voices." What it means is, the sound is better when instruments have different parts, instead of sounding like one extended instrument. When one voice is moving, the other should be still. Or when one is going up, another should be going down, etc. But hey, that's just what a bunch of old dead guys (and some of the best arrangers and best bassists around) said.

don't listen to him if he's just trying to dumb down your bass lines to make him feel more comfortable

I often make a groove that follows both the drums and voice and make sure that it HARMONIZES with the guitar.

Me too! I find it makes things more interesting for everybody.


the sound is better when instruments have different parts, instead of sounding like one extended instrument.

I agree. But in some genres (ones that have a fat guitar sound) the "one extended instrument" can definitely have it's place (eg:Silverchair).

I follow the guitarist a lot, but in a way that adds a lot of supportive character to the lead and rythum sections, I follow the drums when needed to compliment the guitars, other times I do my own thing, only to add a sense of power to the guitars. its an awesome instrument, I can add whatever to which ever band member if need be.
Usually, I just do my own thing, but in a way that adds an amazing amount of depth to whatever is being done at the moment.

In music theory, there's a thing called "independence of voices." What it means is, the sound is better when instruments have different parts, instead of sounding like one extended instrument.
Well, more independent anyway. I don't know where you got the idea that popular approaches are better than all the others.

tell him to get an octave down pedal and quit. sounds like a control freak

He doesn't know what he's talking about. It sounds like he's relying on you to fatten up his sound. On some songs, especialy heavier songs, doubling the guitar can definately fatten things up, but if you did it on every song, your band's songs would seriously lose depth and get boring real quick.

He's the guitar player. You're the bass player. He needs to respect you as a musician and respect what YOU bring to the band. Ignore him.

Play in bands with no guitar player(s)! :p

don't listen to him if he's just trying to dumb down your bass lines to make him feel more comfortable
AMEN!!!! I find this happens 90% of the time!!! Especially when it is one of thoes guitar players who think bass players just couldnt cut it on guitar, that why they play bass. Then just sit back, be cool, and blow their heads off!!! "YEah thats right, bass players can move up the neck too mo-fo's"!!! Just remember if it wasnt for the bass player...the guitar players would look like idiots!!!! Its the bass that gets the booties shaking!!!

depend on what you want, if you want to just keep the bass sound, then you can do what he want. You can also follow the drum, and do some groove line(eg. play when the drummer kick his bass drum) You can also do some kind of variation or even some nice melody fill in appropriate.

Normally if you play punk, you would follow the guitar, but not always, song like "In Pieces" by Sum 41 got nice melodic bass fill, so it simply depend on what you want.

Anyway this guitar guy sound like a usual ego-guitarist, who want to be the lead and wants to play down the others in the band.

I used to be in band, and the vocalist(not a guitarist) want me to follow the guitar, because he is used to it, but then me and the guitarist(yes the guitarist) convince him that bass can do that what he usually listen to. Anyway the guitarist like slap pop stuff, so yea.

Depends on the song/music. A lot of metal, rock and punk wouldn't work if the bass was too different from the guitar.

Big +1 on that..

Following what the guitarist does exactly sounds pretty boring to me.... Tell him to get an octave pedal... Ha!

Tell him to get an octave pedal... Ha!
;);)

For original stuff I tend to key in on the vocal line a bit more than the guitar. Of course you have to do what the song dictates.

this seems to be a trait of metal and hard music today...screw 'em..these are the same guitars that belittle many bass players...screw em

I always go the OTHER direction, he goes up, I go down. In a trio, or in a band with more pieces..listen to how guys like geddy do things..listen to the vocal, line, lock in with the drums...

But if you are into Dethklok type of crap, be prepared to do nothing but double the geetards root...

hahah this is some great info guys. Thanks!

yes, the guitarist is a control freak with a pretty big ego.

yeah, i stood up to him and told him i'm doing my own thing and he can suck it up.

btw, i play alternitive rock/rock/a bit of scream.

I love to play my own bass lines and come back to the guitar sometimes. but i thought it was wrong when he told me that. He's got a VOX guitar floorpedalboard, which i'm sure has an octave somewhere.

i'll tell him this. i should get a kick out of the replies you've given me. Thanks guys!!!


P.S.

+1 to all the bass guys(and girls!) that do your own thing.

+1 to all of ya.

Whatever floats your boat man.
Does it sound good?
No, don't listen to guitards.

the guy's an idiot.


+1

don't listen to him if he's just trying to dumb down your bass lines to make him feel more comfortable

+1 on that. Sounds like a weak sister looking for reinforcement of his lame lines.

I don't follow any rule here. As a player, I learn and play totally by ear, and I am definitely not a showman. I play for the song. I think of the bass as both a tonal instrument and a percussion instrument, so I like my lines to complement both.

As a band, we are 98% covers. I have been listening to a lot of music for a long time, so at least within the genres we play in (alt.country/Americana/roots/classic) I think I know what works pretty well just by feel. My habit is to learn the song verbatim, then do with it what I see fit. Some I change very little, some I change a good bit. Sometimes I follow the melody, sometimes not. Even within a single song I may change. Maybe I am lucky, but I have never had my guitar players ask once for me to do anything differently (been together coming up on a year).

I don't know your band structure or hierarchy. If the guitar player is the/a band leader, I guess he shoud call the shots. If not, you should be left to do what works best for the end result, and satisfies you as a player. If you don't enjoy the playing, there's no band vibe and your success is limited.

Jon Schaer
Columbus, OH

It depeneds on the song. For some songs/styles, that is a completely appropriate statement.

the guitarist in the band i just joined seems to think that ALL of my bassline should follow his guitar or the other guitarist's. I'm not down with that, because i like matching the drums and guitar and having my own independent thing for a fill. But he thinks ALL of it should match.
Is he right and i'm just being foolish?
or what??

there are no rules... matching the guitars is a particular method for achieving a specific musical result... do it and it'll sound like one thing, don't do it, and it'll sound like something else

some styles of music demand that the bass follows the guitar exactly... e.g. metallica style thrash circa ...And Justice For All... but the vast majority of music isn't as hyper-regimented as that

sounds like your guitarist either has A. a specific idea of what he wants the band to sound like, or B. he doesn't understand the function of any other instrument if it isn't serving 100% as his 'backup instrument'

or C. you might be playing so waywardly that the only way he thinks he can impose some order is to get you to follow him :)

my guess is probably B... many guitarists are incapable of anything but the most selfish musical behaviour

there are no rules... matching the guitars is a particular method for achieving a specific musical result... do it and it'll sound like one thing, don't do it, and it'll sound like something else

some styles of music demand that the bass follows the guitar exactly... e.g. metallica style thrash circa ...And Justice For All... but the vast majority of music isn't as hyper-regimented as that

sounds like your guitarist either has A. a specific idea of what he wants the band to sound like, or B. he doesn't understand the function of any other instrument if it isn't serving 100% as his 'backup instrument'

or C. you might be playing so waywardly that the only way he thinks he can impose some order is to get you to follow him :)

my guess is probably B... many guitarists are incapable of anything but the most selfish musical behaviour

even metallica did not follow all the time, sometimes they play variation or even take lead part.

But follow the guitar is usually to create certain effect, when you want to thicken the sound

He's wrong if that's what he thinks should be happening all the time. At best what he's shooting for cripples the potential musicality of a band. It can be a neat effect (some of the old Pat Travers music comes to mind), but as a rule, NO!

Think how silly a band with multiple vocalists would sound if they all sang the melody together all the time? The music would feel really flat and one would start to wonder what's the point? However, throw some harmonies, etc. in there and the music starts to jump out at you.

If nothing else, you're on the right track focusing more on mimicking the drums than copying the guitar.

what ever happened to seeing what everyone brings to the table...music happens

what ever happened to seeing what everyone brings to the table...music happens

that's sometimes appropriate, but not always... often it relies on someone with a specific idea of what they want the piece to sound like to give a few instructions...

if you said to a symphony orchestra, "ok guys, play me something cool... after all, music happens!", you'd probably get either aimless noodling or complete silence

there's a time for collective creativity, and a time for a composer to tell people exactly what to play... either can be right at the right time

Think how silly a band with multiple vocalists would sound if they all sang the melody together all the time? The music would feel really flat and one would start to wonder what's the point?

Bananarama used to do that... 3 singers all singing in unison

it was pretty bad, which proves your point I guess :)

IMO, following the guitar is definitely not a rule. However, whenever I've had that comment from a guitarist I stop to think because maybe what he is telling me is that he feels the bass part doesn't fit with the guitar.

Tell him that if he's going to write your parts, you're might as well write his. If that doesn't get your point across, find a new band.

he's a guitard, what does he know?

Seems the norm for much rock, especially of the metallic variety, but bucking the norm is always worth it in some way or another!
I'd like to hear more players in that genre(s) try applying some reggae bass tactics to their parts. With a great, simple hooky line with plenty of space in it, and deep tone, you could really carve out some sonic territory as long as your counterpoint is clear and again, "hooky".
I also don't believe the "rule" that bass in most pop/rock should ALWAYS lock in with the kick (I like to pull from the reggae bag of tricks for pop music too----who says you MUST play the root with kick at all times? zzzzzz . . . . )

No, it certainly is NOT a rule for me. That "formula" works well in certain styles of music but even then, you'll hear the bassist wander a bit and do his/her own thing if only for the sake of being diverse.

If you eat the same thing every morning you'll eventually get sick of it. Same thing goes for listening to music. There's a limit to how much bluegrass or Zappa I can listen to in one sitting. That just proves to me that humans need diversity and perhaps most importantly, balance. I'm not saying this applies to everyone, of course.

In that spirit, changing things up is part of our nature and it should be encouraged, not suppressed. Back when I was a drummer full time, I learned a great deal from Dave Weckl and David Garibaldi at some master classes. Even though they both held separate classes weeks apart they had basically addressed the same topics and both times a big light went on in my head. They were asked about how to know when to play "with" or "against" the bass player. Their answers were simple and nearly identical. "Both," they said. There's a time to play with the grain and there's a time to play against it. Both methods are viable and neither way is "right." Even then, that's basically a black and white representation and we all know there are many more shades to it than that so even those two answers fail to truly show all the possibilities, which are infinite.

Point being, music is much more than a simple command like "match my riff". There is a time for that but it shouldn't be rammed down your throat and expected of you every time you show up for practice or gigs. To me that comes off as a power issue. I expect my fellow band mates to respect me and let me play bass the way I see fit. If they supposedly know more about the instrument than I do, then why am I even there? ;)
Now, if it's a style that I'm unfamiliar with then I will certainly listen to suggestions but for someone to essentially lock you in a cage and expect you to enjoy it is quite asinine, really.

Isn't there a basic chord chart that you guys follow? I would have thought the bass (and the other instruments that aren't taking a solo or playing the melody) would be following the chord progressions.:confused:

Tell him that if the guitar always follows the bass like he's doing right now, the song is gonna be boring, he should try something else.

Reverse psychology, eh. It's been proven with donkeys so I guess it won't hurt guitards :P

There are no rules in music, theory is only guidelines.

I'd say it's something close to a "rule" if you want the music to sound metal-ish and the guitar part could be considered a "bass line" as well. If you're precise and double the guitar part exactly, your band can sound HUGE. Remember, your band's sound comes first, not your ego.

I do what is right for the song or part. If that means I need to play the same part as the guitarists, so be it. I also will go off and do my own thing as well. It really depends on the part...