I actually had a baas player tell me it's not how well you play, it's how good you look that matters. What a bunch of bull. Let me know of any similar stories.

Once,a friend of mine came to visit me at home.He saw my bass and asked ''Hey what is this?''.I told him that it is a bass guitar.He looked and thinked a little bit.He said''Hmm,I see.When you plugged it,it becomes an electric guitar..''
http://www.talkbass.com/ubb/smile.gif
Hey Curt.I think we have too many other cool and useful topics to talk about..There are too many guys around like that...Forget about it and continue playing...Free your mind and your bass will follow...

I just thought his comment was funny as hell. Some people just don't have a clue!

Talking about clueless people, I had a friend who worked at a music store. He once sold a strat (ok, so it wasn't a bass, but it's still funny) to some young guy. He came back about 40 minutes later, showed my friend the pickup toggle switch and said "This on/off switch doesn't work right".

Well, I thought it was funny...

Many punk bassists think that its the look that matters. When I decided to learn bass about 2 years ago my friend john (Jackalkol@aol.com) said "you gotta play the bass really low to look like Sid Vicious" I was like "Sid Vicious was the worst bass player of all Time! To this day he still tells me that I should play low and with a pick. Some People just dont know.

You've got the right idea! Keep it up!

get this. i still live at home, (im only 14 so i am supposed to) anyways, one day my sister comes to me, when i am watching a concert on tv, and keep telling her to shut up, cause i am trying to listen to the bass. she says to me "you can hear it loud and clear, and sides why do you want to hear the bass?" i tell her cause i play bass, and i kinda like that sorta stuff, she says to me, seriously, "you dont play guitar? i thought you play guitar not bass" and i have been playing for over a year.

I've been teaching for 6 years in local high schools with about 30 students each week, not a long time or a lot of students compared to some, but I have already given up trying to tell my students' parents that their children actually play the bass, not the guitar.

At one school, which is a specialist music school, half way through the term, one of the classroom teachers started bugging me to find a spot to teach this new kid. She was constantly on my back about it and the kids folks were impossible to get in touch with and his time table was really restrictive, but eventually I rearranged things so he had a regular spot in one of his free lessons (he was a senior student and couldn't miss any classes). The teacher was pretty agro about it by this time (I still can't work out why she was so intent about the whole thing) and he walks in to the practice room and pulls out a beautiful six string electric guitar.

I think everyone is stupid at least some of the time.

I don't know that anyone is stupid. Uneducated, yes, stupid, not usually. I appreciate the feedback, keep the stories comin'!

I have tried to reply 4 times and erased all but this one.

Musical talent is the most important thing in being in a successful band...however it is also the business of show.

I have seen many local-type bands that are musically solid but look like they belong in a testing lab and I have seen bands that can't "count to four" but play the A clubs.
Why? SALESMANSHIP!!!

The great unwashed don't listen - they look!

I personally have a face and body for radio

Jim

Sadly - a lot of what people in the UK think of nowadays as "bands" are chosen for their looks rather than any inherent musical ability. These "bands" consist of 4 or 5 young and "attractive" - although essentially bland-looking - boys or girls. I was talking to the engineer who actually worked on producing "Steps" - a typical example, last week. He explained how they couldn't sing in time or pitch any notes when they started. The whole thing was digitally produced - pitch shifted and notes moved into time on the digital recording.

The most depressing thing about the conversation was when he told me that the "Steps" album was biggest-selling CD in the UK last year!! The percussionist in our band was also listening and his comment was : "That's the best argument against democracy I've ever heard!"

[This message has been edited by Bruce Lindfield (edited April 03, 2000).]

Bruce,
Take heart, my son and all of his friends here in Montreal have been turning on to such groups as Led Zep, Deep Purple, Frampton etc. He said to me that ALL the kids at school are tired of that synth S*&T and are looking for REAL musicians, like Paige,etc. Just look at the sudden Santana sweep of the Grammys'. I think people are soon going to demand some real talent again.

IMO, i think it depends what you play, has to come into line with what you look like... e.g
if there is a guy in a suit, all dressed up, looks like a bussiness man, but pickus up a bass or guitar and hammers away heavy metal or punk music, it might not sell, cause they would say the guy is out of place, but put the same guy in street cloths, he probly would fit in. a really good example is the metallica S&M, they normaly dress in leather, or the normal heavymetal attire, but, when doing S&M, they brought out the tuxes. the look does matter so you can sell, but what the bottom line is, is how good you are at playing.

Muttluk, when you get old enough to start gigging you will find out that being able to play well is not always enough. I am a very capable player and a good singer, and I was recently looking for another gig. I went and saw the prospective band at a gig. I met them and never got the call to audition, just because I wasn't 21 or 22. (For the record I am 31 and look it.)

Chris A.

I heard a story about from a friend about this guitar player guy who tried out for the Chili Peppers back when they were looking for a new guitarist. The guitar player, a clean cut, average looking guy went in and killed the audition, played his ass off.

The Chili Peppers say "Man, that was great, your the best player we've seen, but I don't think it is going to work."

"Why not?" asks the guitar player.

"Well, you just don't look like you'd fit in with the band. You are too healthy looking, we all look like bone thin addicts."

a good example of the same cloths thing, and same gear, if you look at anything by blink 182, or their web page, look at their "dismemberment" link, it shows who does what, and what their sponsors are. they use same guitars, strings, picks, and they are sponserd by a shrit compony, every concert wearing that brand, shorts, every concert, that brand, boxers, every concert that brand. odd, or maybe they just want to look alike.

A friend of mine has a problem: he is darn goodlooking (or atleast that's what all those chicks say...) and he is also a very good bassplayer. Believe it or not, he's enjoying his life! Now that's unfair.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tuomas:
A friend of mine has a problem: he is darn goodlooking (or atleast that's what all those chicks say...) and he is also a very good bassplayer. Believe it or not, he's enjoying his life! Now that's unfair. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

well, i'm not so sure if thats unfair, i kinda have a simular situation...many people say i am really good at bass, and i have a girl friend, her best friend asked me out, i had like 5 girls from another school, calling me everyday... i know i'm fourteen, but my life isnt the greatest. i'm not quite happy, could be happyer, but in those area's i'm successful. i know this doesnt have to do with the topic, but... it kinda answers your post...kinda.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Muttluk:
a good example of the same cloths thing, and same gear, if you look at anything by blink 182, or their web page, look at their "dismemberment" link, it shows who does what, and what their sponsors are. they use same guitars, strings, picks, and they are sponserd by a shrit compony, every concert wearing that brand, shorts, every concert, that brand, boxers, every concert that brand. odd, or maybe they just want to look alike.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didnt think that Blink 182 wore clothes. just kidding

Looks do matter to a point, but I am not talking about good looks per say. You need to be interesting to look at. Unless you play in an orchestra pit, folks come out to see a band.

Otherwise the juke box can do a better job in most cases. As an entertainer you have to entertain. Put on a stage persona and dress for the part. I am put off by people that are over the top, but folks who don’t do sh!t on stage are just plain boring.

Good looks DO matter if you are going to be in a boy band though, but face it, boy bands don’t hire musicians, let alone bass players.

jc

Belive it or not, I've actually gotten gigs because I had a cool look. I didn't have to play a note. I turned down the gig because I ask the drummer, "When do we play?", and he said, "Don't sweat it, you got the gig." No thanks, besides, it was a bunch of programmed crap.

It's a sad fact, but it is true that you need to look the part as well as be able to play well. If you do a gig and just stand there looking bored sh!tless, but it's a good gig musically, you tend to get a more muted reaction than a bad gig when you dance around like an idiot and look into it. Sadly, this is often a source of disupte between me and my band members. I'd rather concentrate on the music, but they want me to look more interested on stage.

Basically, you should try and play your instrument as well as possible, but it doesn't hurt to try and look the part.

a band that came to mind when you made that post is KoRn. they're always saying how in rehersals, they are just standing there, but when they play in front of crowds, they just go crazy. they talk about how, its just something that you cant help doing, seeing thousands of kids in a mosh pit, makes you want to jump right in, so they go crazy on stage. another thing they say though, is that they only move around to the extent of their playing ability.

A guitarist acquaintance of mine has recently been getting his chops together very well, and is forming a 3-piece blues band. He's 18, a killer player, and has a great drummer, of similar age. He was lamenting to me recently about not being able to hire a bassist they auditioned, because they loved the way he played. The poor guy was 46 (not me, btw, I've never met him), and he didn't "look right" on stage. He was a great performer, apparently, but it doesn't "look right" to have an old guy with people his age.

I was almost speechless....put it this way, *I'll* never be invited onstage to play with him. I was staggered at this bigotry.....funnily enough, one of his heroes is John Lee Hooker. Wonder what would happen if John Lee dragged him onstage sometime......would he refuse because John Lee didn't "look right"?

Nuff said....

I dont know if my friend is funny or dumb...or a compulsive liar.
He says he has 5 Henderson guitars. I have never heard of Henderson. He says its a real company.
Later, he commented, "Or maybe I read the cursive wrong..."

Well I'm 20 and I have the 1950'ish look I guess you may call it...clean cut, button down shirt open, cool pants with a belt, undershirt and a lot of people say that style fits me and look good. However as a bass player, I'm a beginner. Strangely enough, i've gotten a few small gigs already and I really admidt that I have no timing whatsoever. I'm decent at fretting the proper notes, but I do tend to get lost in a song because I have played with a band only a few times and usually practice on my own without a metronome or drum machine unfortunately. Just goes to show you..

I have 2 stories regarding the above discussions, but first let me give you some background. I have a degree in Jazz Bass Performance from Temple University. I have played I'd say 1,000 gigs during the 12 years I've been playing bass. These gigs have ranged from jazz pickup gigs to original rock (my true love) to latin to pit orchestras to more jazz to country to pop cover bands. I don't want to sound arrogant, but I'd say I'm an above average bass player. If nothing else, I can bring experience to any situation. I'm 30 years old, 200 lbs, with glasses and some grey hair. I could pass for maybe 25. Also, I have rarely if ever turned down a gig of any kind. I live in Reading PA.

My first story involves a band name the Dean Moise band. They were just starting out, looking for a bass player. I tried out, everything seemed to go well enough, then they asked about my hair, which I usually wear short. They all had long hair, and seemed to think that short hair would kill their image (this is a few years ago, BTW). Then they asked me if I could wear a wig. A fu**ing wig! I was like, "why don't I get a fake set of tits also". Can I say that here? I hope so. Needless to say, their band was doomed before it began.

Fast forward to present day. Some friends of mine play in a band here in Reading. I won't mention the name to protect the innocent. They are all around 21 years old (9 years younger than me). They wear trendy clothes and have expensive hair cuts. They recently fired their bass player, and asked me to fill in on a few gigs. They've seen me play, and they like my playing. I learned 3 sets of material in 2 days and began doing shows with them. I dropped a few clams the first night, but subsequent shows went flawlessly. They were straightforward with me, and I can't fault them too much, but they said right to my face : "We're looking for a guy just like you but younger". Wow, what a kick in the teeth. I'm 30 years old, and I'm over the hill. As Jethro Tull put it, "Too old for rock and roll and too young to die". I am still friendly with these guys, and I also kinda understand where they're coming from. I guess they've taught me that if I want to continue doing rock music, I'm going to need to work out, tan, get contacts, color my hair, and spend about $400 on some new clothes. Up until now all I did to prepare for a gig was practice.

[This message has been edited by shirky (edited May 05, 2000).]

hey curt,
Look VS Talent works for Slipknot though. I tink they totally suck, but because they were freaky looking costumes, people like em.

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I'm only a caveman, I don't understand these things...

what the duck (guess what word i would have used but because of censorship, just rhyme, give you a hint, use f)slipknot does not suck. ok the reason why people like them, is cause they can play. but thats my opinion. you said you like all these 80's metal bands, do you actuly think rob zombie is like that in real life? you do understand that its just an image thing, and he isnt really all "ohh the devil and me are tight" its an image thing that he wanted to keep. along with alice cooper. there also is a reason why he dresses up like he does, you know what that is...IMAGE. now, you say that these guys have talent, me i dont think they do, but to me, it seems that they dont. Slipknot does have talent, they wouldnt be platnum if they didnt have talent. Just cause people dont like BSB and all those other bands, doesnt mean that they dont have talent. Yes they were constucted to be in those "teeny booper" groups, but before they were put into their groups, they could sing solo. yes no one likes them, but they do have talent. Slipknot, they have talent, you may not like them, but yes they do have talent.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Muttluk:
you said you like all these 80's metal bands, do you actuly think rob zombie is like that in real life?

rob zombie isn't from the 80's. sh!t white zombie didn't come out till 90-91.


Slipknot does have talent, they wouldnt be platnum if they didnt have talent.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh yeah, well britney spears must have 10x their talent then. and dream theater must be talentless hacks, since they aren't "platnum"




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john

strings! strings! i need more strings!

What are the most popular bands today? BSB, N'Sync, and other 15 minute girly bands. Looks do have to do with how well you get into the music industry. But then again, Lemmy isn't exactly the most handsome man in the world. So there are exceptions to the rule. But also, if you don't wear the right clothes, sing the right way, or. in the case of Lemmy, have been around a long time, you aren't going to go anywhere. Believe me, I have tried. I was invited into a band that was doing Metallica-style metal rock. We sounded good, we had the talent, but because Mike (the guitarist) and Dan (the Drummer) are both in the military we were turned down by agent after agent after agent, just because half the band wore stripes. Irked the hell out of me. Don't ask me why people feel this way about how the band should look, maybe people are just dumb.


Rock on
Eric

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Do you know why the tape measure is so much better than you? You have what, six feet in you? IT has 25 feet in it. THAT'S why it's so much better than you.

My band's first gig is coming up at the end of this month. Its sorta a funk-type thing, and I have the ability to pick my hair into an enormous red afro (i'm white). I'm convinced that half the people from this show that go to our next one will come for the 'fro(the other half will dig the band, i hope)....hehehehehe oh yeah and these swweeeeet chuck norris-style reflective sunglasses...image is everything. obey your thirst. drink sprite.

Well put Mr. john turner.

Image is $.

Does MTV play image or talent?

I loved MTV in the 80's(and yes, i was a kid then)

Now it makes me sick.

Practice, practice, practice.

You can be the most talented person in the world, but if you look like Stu Hamm, you are eternally doomed to a lifetime of hiding behind the cool guitarists. I have blonde hair, blue eyes, big boobs...I look like a porn star. NObody really takes me all that seriously. I've been playing bass for six years, since I was 13. Reviews never say" the bass player had a nasty groove and amazing skill" they say "the bass player's doll like beauty was a real hit with the male audience". But hey, it gets the crowds in to the club, and it will definitely help on MTV. Basically, looks matter, and have always mattered. However if you totally suck as a band looks can't bail you out. You have to have talent first and foremost.

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looks definately play a huge role in the success or failure of a band or musician. people are visual creatures. the mistake that is very frustrating is that so many arrogant musicians cant understand that just because a band has a strong image doesnt mean they automatically suck on their instruments. sure there are plenty of examples where image is everything, but its not always. image just makes it more fun and interesting.

yeah, and then on the other hand there's blues traveler. that john popper is a regular GQ cover-boy.

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john

money good! napster bad!

face it, if looks were the number one rule of thumb, i'd have a record deal, millions of dollars, many platnum records, very very beautyful wife, beach house! j/k


please excuse the stupid posts i've been making around this time, cause well, i dont know, i was in a mood to make dumb posts, so i decided why not.

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I am a self proclaimed boy genius

I'm not tryin to against the "playing is everything!" thought...but....yesh, looks do play quite a part of success...cool stage tricks work nicely...try jumping off of steps or standing on your amp...pigtails help too http://www.talkbass.com/ubb/tongue.gif

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I am rubber, you are glue. Whatever you say i will store in a little box just in case i need to shove it down your throat at any given moment.

Some people at school were starting a band, and me and my friend who also plays bass went to try and get in. Even though I'm the better player (honest!)they chose my friend, and admitted it was because he's better looking. Oh well... http://www.talkbass.com/ubb/mad.gif

Well, I have neither looks or talent and nobody seems interested in me...wait...what was the topic?

[This message has been edited by Whitebread (edited June 27, 2000).]

Uh, Meatloaf,Neil Young,Lyle Lovett,Johnny Paycheck,Barry Manalow,Randy Newman,Janis Joplin,Buddy Holly,Willie Nelson,Mamma Cass,all 70's Southern rock bands,Jerry Garcia,Ringo Starr...you guys ain't gonna make it!!

on acacia's topic, i know musical technicians (so-called "musicians") with monster chops, amazing technical skill, and _they_ still suck, couldn't right a decent memorable song for love or money.



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john

"Bad Muttluk! No Anuses!!" -our own lil'biski

i know plenty of musicians that have top of the line gear, custom made everything and still suck.

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Sean

My website (http://www.geocities.com/metalhead70)

My eBay stuff (http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&userid=acacia70&include=0&since=-1&sort=2&rows=25)

CDs and Concert shirts for sale (http://www.geocities.com/metalhead70/main.html)

hey, waitasecond...barry manilow is cute!!! just kidding.

SlapDaddy, you do have a point. However, have you noticed that all the artists you mentioned broke about ten years BEFORE MTV? In the sixties and seventies nobody cared that much about image because they just heard the artists on the radio. Image was nice, but not prerequisite. Times changed.

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I'm 40, female, fat (and, thankfully, phat), not particularily attractive, and playing original music with a 17 year old guitarist and and 18 year old drummer - typical California 'burb-dwelling teenage boys - in a straight-ahead rock band.I'm accepted by our audience because, I think, of my attitude and our cohesive 'look'. We've got this deeply suburban, grunge-skater, wearing-our-dad's-castoff-70's-clothes thing going on. Mix that with confident playing, a driving beat, catchy changes, and band mates that genuinely like each other and the audience can't help but respond.Incidentally, when we first started playing together I brought up the 'image' thing - believe it or not they both thought it was cool to have a rocking old broad in the band - just different enough to set us apart.I was turned down by a few bands before we formed this one...repetitively humiliating is an understatement. I guess the lesson is if things don't happen to you the way you want, you gotta go out and make them happen.

All right Cher!!!!!!!!!! We need more women with your attitude. Keep on grooving.

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"Make a scene tonight, and read about it in the morning"-Peter Cetera

anarchy sex + love
Genya

Beauty,
You're right...(Video killed the radio star)sung to the tune of "video killed the radio star" Cher...You da man! er..woman!!!

When I joined my first real band at 17, I had never played bass before-ever. But I learn quick and was playing guitar for a few years before this. The reason they asked me to play with them was that I looked cool (at the time). I had the John Turner extra long mohawk look going, but more than that I had "stage presence". When we played, the crowd would gather in front of me and antagonize me into jumping in the pit! And I did, almost all the time (love the wireless), my bass got banged out of tune and when they picked me up in the middle of a song, I know I missed notes here and there; but it didn't matter that much because the people were getting a fun show! They loved us even if I missed notes. Rythmicly we were tight....I think I lost my stage pressence now though...I concentrate on my playing alot more. I think that is sign of old age. I guess I never should have cut my hair http://www.talkbass.com/ubb/biggrin.gif.

Anyway...sorry to ramble, but looks DO MATTER unless you can make your living as a studio musician.

p.s. Don't forget the stage pressence. Do something that most bands or players dont do...like run around the club during the set, mosh, and like Biski said...stand on your amp. Alot of bands now a days are boring to watch. If you get a chance, see SEVENDUST play....that's a good show...they got little trampolines they jump off and stuff and put on a great show. And check out Skunk and Nancy. That chick has serious stage presence.

Later.

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ThePez

The bands that just stand there and look at their shoes - that's an image too. Image doesn't just mean "looking good/freaky" or "jumping around".

It could mean looking ugly. *THE* image used to be dirty clothes, long unkempt hair, etc. and nowadays it is short hair, well-groomed, etc.. Different songs, different audiences, appreciate different looks.

Cher - your band sounds very memorable on what I imagine the look would be. Best of luck to you.

My city has a free newspaper that has a section where for a minimal cost bands can advertise for musicians. I'm amazed how many of the ads say something like "no one over 23,", no one over 30, no one over 18. I had to laugh. This one guy wrote up an ad...desperate for a bass player because he had written music and was ready to record an album but he just had to have a bass player, and...oh yeah, no one over 23 need apply! Well, he ran that ad two months, week after week. As far as I know, he still doesn't have a bass player. The arrogance! Heck, he could have had a damned good 50-year old play on the recording while he looked for a younger player to tour.

The worst offenders in age discrimination are the young pop bands and metal bands. Their ads nearly always say, no one over 20. So bass players who might be very experienced and very professional in their attitude and habits, but are 28 or 30 or older are out of luck even if they prefer to play metal. Luckily, for some, country bands, gospel bands, reggae and jazz bands aren't so tough on older musicians.
Jason Oldsted

well i'm replying off the original post but you gotta think on a moral level that guy was wrong but really chance of someone getting famous relies more on looks than musical skill, look who we have leading record sales... Britt Spears, NSync, and this Dynamite Hack crap. All talentless bull****, hell Britt and NSync don't even play instruments, and you know they can barely sing. The only real mainstream singer type i have respect for is Macy Gray. At least the band she uses can play decent music.

I'm an "older" guy who's been in a number of bands, and for the last 9 years or so I've been in blues bands playing all kinds of venues. I gotta say that for the genre of music that I play, looks do count. However, I'm not talking about me and my bandmates being a bunch of pretty boys (which we're not, I assure you...); rather, I'm talking about dressing for work. Our audiences tend to be folks who expect a blues band to, well, look like a blues band -- dressed sharp, hip, cool, whatever you want to call it. While torn jeans, ripped shirts, or multi-colored hair (natural gray not included) might be the "uniform" for bands playing other kinds of music, it doesn't cut it for the blues.

For most gigging bands, in addition to playing music part of the "work" factor is providing "entertainment," and the way a band looks often contributes to the band's overall entertainment value. As one blues/jazz club owner put it, "I don't care how good they play...I don't want no hobos in here." However, I'm sure that the club owner/manager of the alternative club down the street also has his or her own ideas about what's best for his/her establishment...and that, my friends, is one of the realities of gigging (we'll save the subject of club wages for another day).

My point is, dress for the gig, whatever it may be...it comes with the turf of being a musician. And hey, don't forget that it sure does help if the band has its sh*t together musicianship-wise, 'cause no matter how good you look, a sucky band is still a sucky band.

*********************************************

Been there, done that, can't remember most of it...except the low parts.

I reckon nobody gets down the list this far, but hey:

I have a mate who whenever we see a band playing on the tele, points at the tv when the guitarist is shown and shouts "IS THAT a BASS" , i don't know, sometimes a just feel like shuving my bass down his throat and saying "THIS is a BASS", i don't think it would do my bass much good though!

Regarding what Cher said about "I guess the lesson is if things don't happen to you the way you want, you gotta go out and make them happen."

To me, this touches on the subject of knowing when to make a gracefull exit. By this I mean that a savvy musician should know when to call it quits from a band. There are times when artistic differences or (shudder!) business differences will dictate that it's best to leave a band and search for the next musical collaboration. And, it's always best to do so before the proverbial sh*t hits the fan amongst bandmates. I don't mean that you shouldn't try to work things out (especially considering that we bass players tend to be rational, clear-thinking types), but, there comes a time when all the negotiating in the world ain't gonna make it happen!

And don't forget that we bass players are a commodity, so even though you might have to move on, chances are you'll get snatched up pretty quick! ;)

************************************************** *****

Been there, done that, can't remember most of it...except the low parts.

In order to get signed [so i've read] you have to look the part & be able to play decently. The labels want bands that the current market will love so that they make more money. theres my opinion

Originally posted by lowb
I reckon nobody gets down the list this far, but hey:

I have a mate who whenever we see a band playing on the tele, points at the tv when the guitarist is shown and shouts "IS THAT a BASS" , i don't know, sometimes a just feel like shuving my bass down his throat and saying "THIS is a BASS", i don't think it would do my bass much good though!


what's his problem? is he f#^ked in the head or something? sounds like he's got some kind of mental disability.

I think what LowB is saying is that the vast majority of the CD-buying, MTV-watching, "General Public" have no idea what a bass is and they just see 2 or 3 guys with things around their necks and assume they are all guitars.

I know lots of people who have no idea what bass is and don't really hear basslines. They know what drums are - you hit them - and they can understand when they see guitarists strumming aggressively that this makes a sort of percussive noise. But basslines exist just beyond their perception - it's like colour blindness, but less dangerous!They just sing along and feel the rush if it's exciting, but don't actually perceive the component parts.

This is why it's so nice to come along to a forum like this where you can take it as read that everyone knows what your talking about when you mention great basslines of the past or how funky something is. Whereas I would have to explain this for about half an hour to my sister and she still probably wouldn't know what I meant!

you know, there's another reason why it seems that most of the people who are the big rock/pop stars right now are so young and have minimal talent...they're easier to control that way...the younger you are, the less experienced you are, the less say you have in what goes on. and the more the major labels can exploit you...

oh and speaking of flashy bands who SUCK, there are three pages to this thread and nobody has once even mentioned the one band that is the prime example of how it's all about looks as opposed to musical talent...KISS!! Whether it be early Kiss, or later Kiss, most all of it to me is boring as s**t...but they have my respect as businessmen because they knew how to rake in the dough...stage presence, clothes, action figures, all that 3D stuff they were talking about...they had an exciting show and got all the chicks...but from a musical standpoint? they pretty much sucked...Ace Frehley's solo on "She" is the same solo Robby Krieger played on 5 to 1 (except Ace just repeats the 1st phrase)....this of course isn't to say that images is EVERYTHING in music, but you can see where it helps...

and on the other hand, when John Popper was asked about what he thought of how successfull Blues Traveler was doing, he turned around and said, "look at this butt...this is NOT a butt that makes teenage girls want to go buy records!" yet they were a big name for a while....

so whether it's good looks or talent, if you are really lacking one of those things, take advantage by getting a lot of the other! hehehe

if you play well the looks will follow

Ed, right on. Play for the music. I was pleasantly surprised when Santana swept the Grammys, for it showed that TRUE talent, musicianship, showmanship, and just plain old love of music really matters.

Even the current crop of popular dance troupes need REAL musicians to back them up (and make up for their inadequacies).

Later

I find that playing bass and looking Ok(in my opinion ;P) has disadvantages. I have been to at least 4 auditions where the band have said that "you are a really dope player but we think you will take attention away from the lead guitarist/vocalist" What about Talena from Kittie ? she is the best looking one of them all and she plays bass. Though many people have told me that i think she looks good Cause she plays bass.

In theory...looks shouldn't matter. But as some have discovered...out in the real world...it does. However...it DOES seem to depend on the music one plays. I have never had a probelm with looks....with any blues band. But then, we were pretty much all old geezers....:D

old geezers RoCk, man!

Look at Keith Richards from Stones, women still throw panties at him. Put music first!!! Everything else is just N-Sync without it.

Originally posted by mayfairmistress
old geezers RoCk, man!

OH YEAH!!!!!....:D

What was that again about N'Stinc?

hehe, well looks are not important but is easier to change than playing abilities. So it must be like this: First play good, then PERHAPS change your looks.

Oh well,

ok...i would like to say that looks only matter if you are looking to mainstream music. I can tell you now that in 10 years we will look back on the "hip" music and dressing of this era and laugh. Most of us did over the New Kids on the Block thing and the Vanilla Ice thing. Korn didn't look like a bunch of respectable musicians when they first started out (but then again a lot of people here still don't think they are talented) but they changed their look and turned into one of MTV's favorite bands. I can tell you right now that MTV would of treated them like they treat Kittie or Disturbed now if they didn't change their look. Does that make them better than they were? I don't think so...i think they were a lot better when they were the "pissed off" teens. Same thing with Manson. Mechanical Animals got Manson some time in the spotlight on MTV which they wouldn't of given him if he kept to his "Anti Christ" look. I am glad Manson is giving up that glam sh!t and going back to Goth. It is horrible that our nation's mainstream music is pop trash and rockers looking for the buck. I also realize that teens are spoon-fed this crap and brainwashed to like that. Only the few of can laugh at MTV and find bands that can do things that are AntiMTV and still survive as bands (Slipknot, Pantera, KMFDM, Slayer, SOulfly,etc.)

Whatever...

This is for BeautyandtheBass.Imagine how different this world would be if blindness were the norm and people with sight were the handicapped?I bet the music biz would be alot easier to break into!!!Some how and someway,musicians still need to find a balance between talent and image,there's no getting around it if you want to make it big.But hey!!I'm guilty of getting caught up in this "looks" trap.It's because I'm getting weary of the day job routine and I'm willing to make some changes.I'm sincerely jealous of the bands we love to hate.I'm just being honest when I say I'd like to have their money also!!! I guess this message is for everybody.You know I mean no disrespect to anyone on this thread.

Originally posted by amebassplaya
Ed, right on. Play for the music. I was pleasantly surprised when Santana swept the Grammys, for it showed that TRUE talent, musicianship, showmanship, and just plain old love of music really matters.

I think most people bought that Santana Album because it had the Good looking guy from Matchbox 20 on it...

Those hot chicks in the video of 'Smooth' surely didn't hurt either...

The main guitar player I play with brought a musicians' friend catalog to school one day and I was thumbing through it. I showed him a Fender American Deluxe jazz bass and told him "If I had the money that would be the bass I would buy". He looked at it and said "why? that bass looks stupid!", but before I could respond he said "oh I guess you looking at the sound or something right?". After this I had to lay my head down and try not to pop a vein in my forehead. It was pathetic.

I hate to admit it but nowadays almost every famous bass player, or any musician for that matter has more of a "style over substance" approach to music. When is the last time you heard a good guitar solo on Mtv? Or better yet a bass solo? It seems like at the turn of the nineties players like Claptain and the such started fading away. Popular rock music shifted from complicated riffs and solos to way too much distortion, yelling, and power chords. I'm 17 years old and it makes me mad enough to spit when all of my friends say that nirvana changed the world of music, don't get me wrong some of nirvana's songs are good but I can think of hundreds of artists and bands that have affected music alot greater. I think that the media, radio, and Mtv have almost killed rock as I know it. They only present the public with the videos and songs that they "want" us to like. If they would throw some Kenny Wayne Sheppard in every now and then I think his fan base would grow tons! This goes back to my theory that Mtv is run by 12 year old girls, which is why I watch VH1 and not Mtv nowadays. It just pisses me off how no talent idiots can be 10 times as famous as the true musicians out there.

Whew! Sorry about writting that much, I just had to rant.

Several months ago, John Turner said:

"rob zombie isn't from the 80's. sh!t white zombie didn't come out till 90-91."

I know this was a while back, but I didn't see any responses to this. I remember reading about White Zombie in the first issue of Thrasher I ever got in the spring of 1987. And they looked the same then.

I'm in a band that has put out two albums on independent labels.My lead singer/guitarist isn't exactly thin and svelte.Who cares!!!! We write great songs and that hasn't stopped people from digging our music.We still have to wrestle with the image controversy.Oh well,we'll keep writing and someday someone in some label won't be overly concerned about Size!!!

Us overweight, long hair bass players RULE!

Right JT! :D

Dont yell at me for this cause its absolutely true. I am 6'1" long blonde hair an blue eyes(I know a glam rock reject, but its how i look)and 165 pounds. our manager takes me to meet the club owners as a band "represenative". I know i am on parade to scmooz the owners and act as designated flirt, but it works for us. MTV in the 80's defined the epitome of the rock n roll band and most of the club patrons are still looking for that image. The music just happens to go along with it. I am a good bassist and my band is incredible, but the eye candy helps as well.


but thats my opinion, i could be wrong

To Curt: Ummmm....I'm 134 pounds soaking wet and I just shaved my head,but, bass players still ruuuuullllllleeeeeee!!!!!!!

DownCaster, the fact is that Korn ISNT that talented. Theyve said it themselves. Yes, they can play, but its nothing special. Look at how much effects they use to cover themselves up, epecially jonathan. And all, ALL, theyre new stuff sounds the same. Same chords, same singing, everything.

And its a GOOD thing MTV is playing Disturbed. Ive never encountered a band with more posers than Disturbed! ICK!

I can understand where all you guys who are pissed at MTV and pop culture are coming from; but i think you should understand where all the kids who watch MTV come from. I used to be one of those stupid 13 year olds who thought that the greatest band in the world was some s&#t they played on TRL. When i started playing bass, i thought the coolest band in world was Everclear. Well, im 15 now, and no offense to Everclear, but what the f$%k was I on? To make my point, kids these days dont start playing bass to be like Jaco or Vic, they want to be cool like Korn or Limp Bizkit. The way i look at is, for every kid who likes Derrick and the Dominos, theres another hundred who think the Backstreet Boys are talented. Thus, real talent is not needed to make a cool band as long as synthesizer equipment prices don't suddenly rise and budding artists continue to have no problem ripping off other bands.

Mega...what is your problem? I understand you dont like Korn...but i have just as much a right to like a band as you do for not liking them. I agree with you about the new stuff...i think it is pretty damn boring...but i think their old stuff was great. They hide behind effects cuz that is the type of music they play. head and munky are both great players...they use the effects to accent their sound. I would like to get a few effects...does that make me any less of a bass player?? No...it just says that i am looking for a new sounds. I would respect if you would back off all the Korn bashing...and get out of my face over me liking the damn band.

p.s. I would like to thank you for giving me a reason to change my Signature...

I'm glad I don't have cable.

Looks can carry you far, but only SO far. Take for example, John Such who played on several of Bon Jovi's first albums...well maybe not several. At least he toured with the band, because he had the look and stage presence. However, toward the end of his tenure, the band grew weary of his deficiencies (whatever they were) and were rumored to be using another bassist (their present one in fact) play the basslines on the albums. Finally the band left Such go. Their new bassist does not have the glam metal look in any way, shape or form, but I guess he is a darned good bass player, so he has the live concert tour and recording gig now.


Jason Oldsted

Actually, Hugh McDonald (I think that's his name...) played on almost all of the Anchovy...er....John Blome:eek:....uh...I mean Bon Jovi stuff ;). I know for a fact that he was eventually credited with the one cool bassline I know of theirs: "Living On A Prayer".

Apparantly the ONLY reason Such was in the band was that he had the right "look". He hated the studio, didn't have the patience and concentration for take after take (not to mention that apparantly he was unable to actually get a good take...maybe that was why he didn't care for it :rolleyes: ). They tolerated his inability to pull stuff off live because of his appearance and stage presence, but eventually his piss-poor playing wore on the band enough that they let him go, and hired the "real" Bon Jovi bassist. It's good to see true talent and ability winning out over looks, even though it took more than a decade for it to happen in this instance :D.

Originally posted by Jennifer
I'm glad I don't have cable.

But you're missing all those music/fashion shows! :eek: :D

To ED: Maybe you could start another thread " Who knows who Politics." It's not what you know it's who you ....

I always wondered about the Bon Jovi bassist situation.
It's weird that they finally hired the guy that had been
playing on the records all along. I saw a picture of
Hugh McDonald in BP and I thought he looked pretty cool. Hell, cooler than A.J. Such....

Check out Bryan Beller's column in the October BP for a humorous take on this topic.

I always remember useless, random pieces of trivia while I SHOULD be doing my homework, and now is one of those times. :D
Anyway, when I first 'joined' the band I'm currently in, the lead guitarist (well, it was forced upon her...I already mentioned that before though, right?) said I didn't quite look right, because normally the bassist in the band is the 'chunkiest' guy. At the time I was about 5'4" or 5'5" and weighed in at about 110 lbs. Now I'm about 5'6" and weigh in at about 120 lbs. Oh well. :D

I saw Bon Jovi when they opened up for the Scorpions.I didn't like them then and I don't care for them now,sorry.Even though the Scorps kicked butt,there were alot of teeny boppers in the crowd wearing Bon Jovi t-shirts.It goes to show,it's just a matter of taste or the lack there of.Can't please everybody!!I don't mean to diss anyone I'm just being honest.

Originally posted by Sheep Man
I always remember useless, random pieces of trivia while I SHOULD be doing my homework, and now is one of those times. :D
Anyway, when I first 'joined' the band I'm currently in, the lead guitarist (well, it was forced upon her...I already mentioned that before though, right?) said I didn't quite look right, because normally the bassist in the band is the 'chunkiest' guy. At the time I was about 5'4" or 5'5" and weighed in at about 110 lbs. Now I'm about 5'6" and weigh in at about 120 lbs. Oh well. :D

I think part of the reason why the bassist is thought of that way since we're not usually as self-involved as our lead guitarist counter parts or rivals which ever the case maybe ,butI guess i fit the stereotypical bass player figure type thing i'm 5'10'' 155lbs not fat but not thin & i have decent-good muscle tone all-around. thats all

I guess i fit the stereotypical bass player figure type thing i'm 5'10'' 155lbs not fat but not thin & i have decent-good muscle tone all-around. thats all [/B]
Ah...but that's where I'm different. Not much muscle in me. It only sorta looks that way because there's also just about no fat in me. :D

i remember this one gig i had, i thought we were wailing, i wiped the sweat from my brow, jumped from the stage, gave mom a hug, and she said "boy you sweat a lot", "don't you know any good songs", "why does that thing have 4 strings? i only saw you touch 2"

I just want to know one thing: How do you explain Ringo Starr? Uglier than dirt, no talent ... sheesh. It introduces a third crucial factor previously not considered. Dumb luck.

To Munjibunga: Have you ever checked out getsigned.com? The writer talked about EIGHT reasons why a band is not signed.One of those reasons listed was luck. Location, IMAGE,drive and other factors were mentioned. I don't know what the Beatles saw in Ringo,but somehow it was what they were LOOKING for.Go figure,beats the hell out of me!!

Speaking of image and in my case age I've been looking for a new band for months now. I'm 42 years old and I like to play Big , Loud and Heavy (I saw Black Sabbath In 1973 and Black Sabbath f**ked my life up) so not many guitarists don't ask how old I am.
One guy said "nar! your to old, it's an attitude thing" so I said to him "well I was in the Pantera mosh pit where the hell were you?!!" refering to their gig here in Sydney Australia a few years back. His answer "I couldn't go, I was to young" Well I pissed myself laughing.
The moral of the story- If someone has a problem with my age or image, laugh- it's their problem not mine and I don't need problems in my band.

To pkeeg: Good for you!!! There's too much image crap that gets in the way of enjoying music!!!