I was listening to Chicago V yesterday and Peter Cetera puts on a clinic. The bass lines in tunes "While the City Sleeps" and "State of the Union" are lines that would make Chuck Rainey proud. But Peter was content to put down his instrument and make syrupy pabulum with Amy Grant. Can you guys think of any great players who are content with a gig that is a waste of their talents? Another one that comes to mind is Daryl Jones. I'm sure it took him about thirty seconds of grueling ear training to figure out Bill Wymans bass lines.:D

Can you guys think of any great players who are content with a gig that is a waste of their talents?

John Giblin. From going head to head with the jaw-droppingly good Percy Jones in Brand X to paying the rent in Simple Minds.

Pino in The Who. That should be the most coveted job in the business, but I guess Pete & Rog don't want anyone upstaging them.

Not a bassist, but a few years back a mate of mine was getting something together with ace drummer Ted McKenna (ex-SAHB, Rory Gallagher etc.). It was shaping up nicely, but still very early days, when Ted got a call offering him a world tour with Womack & Womack for some major bucks. I last saw him on the TV playing tennis onstage with W & W's kids. I hope it was worth it.

I can't blame any of 'em, I'd think long & hard (for about 0.0005 seconds) if I was offered a stupendously well-paid gig with about 0 artistic merit (with the possible exception of the last example).

Prostitute myself on the Altar of Capitalism?
Where do I get undressed?

everytime i don't get called to the studio. i'm sitting here, the hottest thing since sliced bread, and some other schmuck is getting the job. doubleyou tee eff, mate? doubleyou tee eff?



*i'm kidding. honestly.




*call me for a job. someone! please!!

Prostitute myself on the Altar of Capitalism? Where do I get undressed?
+1:bassist::hyper::D

Prostitute myself on the Altar of Capitalism?
Where do I get undressed?

Couldn't have said it better my man, couldn't have said it better.

I'm adding that to my sig. by the way, if you don't mind, haha!

John Giblin. From going head to head with the jaw-droppingly good Percy Jones in Brand X to paying the rent in Simple Minds.

Speaking of Percy Jones, the last I heard, he was working in his wife's shop to make ends meet. That is the reality, very often, of playing only music you love.:hmm:

Robert Trujillo joining Metallica.

Couldn't have said it better my man, couldn't have said it better.

I'm adding that to my sig. by the way, if you don't mind, haha!

Feel free, I'd consider it & honour & a privilege, sir.

Funny, but the vast majority of people considered wasting their talents have stepped into gigantic gigs that pay a fortune. Credit to Deathblade for being the only one honest enough in this thread to admit that he'd do it in a second as long as he could be naked. Show me someone who wouldn't, and I'll show you someone working in his wife's store.

Not a bass player, but Dave "Brownsound" Baksh being in Sum 41. The guy can rip, but he didn't get to do any of that in Sum 41.

everytime i don't get called to the studio. i'm sitting here, the hottest thing since sliced bread, and some other schmuck is getting the job. doubleyou tee eff, mate? doubleyou tee eff?


Hahaha, great post.

If you play professionally, paying the bills is a pretty big concern. So you play some gigs you don't like.

Given that, I'd LOVE to play for Simple Minds, or Celine Dion, or most any good pop acts. It's good money, and even if it doesn't test your instrumental skills, it will certainly test your performance skills. Very different things.

...even if it doesn't test your instrumental skills, it will certainly test your performance skills. Very different things.

Don't know that it would TBH. The footage I saw of The 'oo at Glastonbury this year was notable for the fact that Pino & the other guitarist were decidedly in the shadows & doing as they were told - don't even think they got a namecheck. Most hired hands are there purely to make the headliner sound good & showboating isn't an option (unless the contract says it is).

Pete.

If I made what I think Pino probably makes with the Who, I would play under the stage in a box.

Don't know that it would TBH. The footage I saw of The 'oo at Glastonbury this year was notable for the fact that Pino & the other guitarist were decidedly in the shadows & doing as they were told - don't even think they got a namecheck. Most hired hands are there purely to make the headliner sound good & showboating isn't an option (unless the contract says it is).

Pete.

1) Their are plenty of hired hand gigs that have great bass playing. I'm not talking about a bass solo act. But I have nothing but respect for solid pop bass lines.

2) Cetera apparently gave up the instrument, that I don't get. I wish I had half of his ability, and it bugs me that the guy would throw it away.

3) I understand guys who pick up a tour to pay the bills (Pino, DJ). It still doesn't mean their not wasting their talents. And if Pino or DJ were to quit playing for everyone else and not apply their skills somewhere where it would be appreciated it would be a disappointment.

I know many will totally disagree with me, but that`s what I sometimes think of Toto.

I mean all of their musicians are masters of their respective instruments, and although the band sounds terrific live (tight as no other, IMHO) I find the music "cheesy" to my taste.

Fortunately they show their skills in so many sessions and alternative bands.

Ironically, Peter Cetera finally gets some recognition beyond this board or amongst his contemporaries. Bass Player put him on the cover of this month's issue!

And he addresses his reasons for putting down the bass.....

BTW - Chicago V is a clinic in every aspect, from total musicianship, song-writing, bass playing, Terrys guitar-work, you name it, the album is downright perfect. For me the album is best example of fusion masquerading as pop music -- and the public LOVING it!

Norm Stockton playing with Lincoln Brewster.
It could be looked at like he backslid with the gig comparred to his talents.
Lincoln Brewster is a comteporary Christian guitarist/songwriter (smokin' player BTW) but the gig is pretty much a straight up rock gig (which I'd LOVE to have).

Not getting into the reasons why he might do the gig, but IMO he's better than what the gig calls for.

Freddy Washington with Michael Jackson is another one.

Not a bass player, but Will Owsley gigging with Shania Twain and Amy Grant. He's one of the great songwriters of our time (IMO), and he's backing up those two. It pays the bills, I guess.

If you haven't heard Owsley, check out one of his two CD's!!

Norm Stockton playing with Lincoln Brewster.
It could be looked at like he backslid with the gig comparred to his talents.
Lincoln Brewster is a comteporary Christian guitarist/songwriter (smokin' player BTW) but the gig is pretty much a straight up rock gig (which I'd LOVE to have).

Is it possible he looked at it as ministry work on a more visible scale?

Vinnie Colaiuta with Faith Hill.

interesting topic for a thread... :hmm:

Geordie White with Nine Inch Nails, ugghhhh....!

Geordie White with Nine Inch Nails, ugghhhh....!

Waste of talent??!??
:eyebrow:

Vinnie Colaiuta with Faith Hill.

:eek::eek::eek: That is a travesty.:scowl:

I'd do it for the money too, but it is quite sad.

What would most of you consider not to be a waste? To take this outside of music, is a brilliant lawyer who writes wills or handles adoptions wasting his time? Personally, I almost never teach about Northern Sudan in the early 20th century, my area of specialization.

I think the reality of music as a business is that one will often not play up to one's potential. Frankly alot of music where musicians do pplay to their potentials sounds at least as crappy as music where they don't.:confused:

Not a bass player, but Dave "Brownsound" Baksh being in Sum 41. The guy can rip, but he didn't get to do any of that in Sum 41.

He's not in that band anymore. He formed a "metal" band with his cousin called the Brown Brigade. He probably should have stuck with the bigger paycheck.

A waste of talent is not flourishing as well as you can in the situation you are planted within.

There may be any number of reasons for this -- some the nature of the environment, some an unwillingness to adapt and some because you and the situation are not good fits.

Some people might consider it a waste of talent to not be able to support there families....

Frankly alot of music where musicians do pplay to their potentials sounds at least as crappy as music where they don't.

Bingo. +10,000,000. Someone make that your sig. Tatoo it on the inside of your eyelids so that you read it every second of every day.

And besides... Darryl Jones and Vinnie Coliuta playing "beneath their abilities"? Are you folks kidding? Darryl and Vinnie couldn't hang with The Stones or Faith Hill if they didn't have "their abilities"! Some of "their abilities" include the ability to play what's stylistically correct for the music, impeccably, with taste and precision and just the right attitude. (And with very little preparation.) Those guys are doing exactly that day in & day out.

Plus Darryl's on a freakin' retainer for chrissakes, he makes more money on his day off than most of us make working for a year! :)

retainer[/i] for chrissakes, he makes more money on his day off than most of us make working for a year! :)

So basically when he's not playing for the Stones he gets paid to roll doobies?

So basically when he's not playing for the Stones he gets paid to roll doobies?


Or shop for clothes, as I hear it.

Oh come on, I'm pretty sure everybody in this thread knows better. Yes, it takes skill to support a pop song properly and these players are not actually wasting their talent.

Its just when you've listened to Joe's Garage a hundred times and then see Vinnie laying down a quarter note beat (and looking a little bored while doing it) its a little dis-heartening.

As long as they're making music, I don't think you can say their talent is being wasted. Music's made for people, not other musicians.

If anyone's wasting their musical talent, it's Rick Laird, who went from being Mahavishnu's original bass player to becoming a photographer. Still, as long as he's happy. He doesn't owe us anything.

The only real wasted talents are those of people who died before their time, like Jaco, Jamerson, etc.

Not a bass player, but Will Owsley gigging with Shania Twain. . .

Spend a few evenings behind Shania Twain, putting some soul in? Hard to be disappointed with that gig. . .

Meshell on bass with John Cougar Mellencamp.

roscoe beck with the dixie chicks. i do understand picking up some tour work. but, dang. talk about over qualified.

Spend a few evenings behind Shania Twain, putting some soul in? Hard to be disappointed with that gig. . .

Heck, JD Blair (drummer who played on Victor Wooten's solo discs) as well as the bass player from Billy Joel (forget his nome right now) both play with her.

Yeah, I think I would have a tough time on that stage with her wearring the skin tight leather pants, painted on half shirts, high heeled pumps............

roscoe beck with the dixie chicks. i do understand picking up some tour work. but, dang. talk about over qualified.

Actually, during their show they did an acoustic set with Roscoe playing upright and blew through some serious smokin' bluegrass tunes.
And the rest of the band is equally as smokin' as Roscoe.

And IMO, besides the radio crap, they actually have some pretty cool lines in their tunes.

I have a few Robben Ford discs where he plays a bit less than he did on the Chicks tour. He played the tunes yeah, but he killed it all night.

Hey BURK!!

check out the newest issue of Bass Player magazine. Low and behold the cover story is Chicago's Peter Cetera.

pretty ironic huh?

So I guess the concept of what it means to be a full-time working musician is getting lost here.

Cetera apparently gave up the instrument, that I don't get. I wish I had half of his ability, and it bugs me that the guy would throw it away.

I heard that Will Lee used to make more money as a session singer (ad jingles mostly) than as a session bassist.

It's always a tough call when you're a good singer and a good instrumentalist.

Spend a few evenings behind Shania Twain, putting some soul in? Hard to be disappointed with that gig. . .

OK, point taken . . .


http://celebslam.buzznet.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/shania-twain-kennedy-center-1.jpg

I know many will totally disagree with me, but that`s what I sometimes think of Toto.

I mean all of their musicians are masters of their respective instruments, and although the band sounds terrific live (tight as no other, IMHO) I find the music "cheesy" to my taste.

I'd say the same about most of Rush's stuff.

edit: shame on me for getting in on this thread.

...Another one that comes to mind is Daryl Jones. I'm sure it took him about thirty seconds of grueling ear training to figure out Bill Wymans bass lines.:D

I don't have one to add, but the Daryl Jones in the Stones thing has always made think, "man... the money MUST be good!" I'm no elitist and I think a gig is a gig, but I think they got Daryl more because getting some "no-name" dude with mediocre chops would probably be fine, it would also be insulting to Bill.

BTW, I LOVE a lot of Bill's lines - But in the context of this thread, the question of why such a heavy hitter was brought in does make one wonder.

Steve Morse with Deep Purple

Adrian Belew with David Bowie

Stevie Ray Vaughn with David Bowie

Steve Morse with Deep Purple

Adrian Belew with David Bowie

Stevie Ray Vaughn with David Bowie

Hey I loved Belew's work with Bowie! Lodger is a great album! It also gave Belew a much wider audience than he would have had just solo.

Bowie also kind of "discovered" Stevie Ray, and once again certainly gave him a lot of exposure.

I agree about Morse in Purple, although I always liked Purple.

Along the lines of Steve Morse:

Rod Morgenstein with Winger

I was listening to Chicago V yesterday and Peter Cetera puts on a clinic. The bass lines in tunes "While the City Sleeps" and "State of the Union" are lines that would make Chuck Rainey proud. But Peter was content to put down his instrument and make syrupy pabulum with Amy Grant.

Well the rest of the band went in the same direction too.

I guess you gotta pay rent and eat and stuff.

Chicago was a great band, but they got much more successful after they started doing the ballads.

You have to understand that being a professional musician is a job. Most professional musicians spend a lot of time honing their skills to cover different musical situations, but they are rarely going to be called upon to use them all for one gig.

Take an auto mechanic for example. He's able to dismantle, fix and reassemble an engine. But, he also has to do many oil changes because that's a requirement of the job. In fact, he will be required to do oil changes far more than he'll have to do major repairs.

Aside from your specialists (Anthony Jackson, Percy Jones, maybe even Rocco Prestia), you need to do everything. And besides, who wouldn't want to play in from of a crowd of tens of thousands?

Hey BURK!!

check out the newest issue of Bass Player magazine. Low and behold the cover story is Chicago's Peter Cetera.

pretty ironic huh?

I'll definitly check it out.

As far as DJ with the stones. Like I said I have no problem with a good pop gig especially for paying the bills. But when he's playing Bill Wymans old bass lines he is waiting his talent.:p

Although Bill did have good taste in 16 year old girls when he was 50. I at least draw the line at 18.:D

Another one that comes to mind is Tommy Sims, Ex Whiteheart (christian band), Charlie Peacock, Bruce Springsteen, Michael Mcdonald, Madonna sideman. The guy was a monster player, but apparently is much more interested in production and hardly picks up his instrument any more. His unsuccessful solo album had synth bass on all but one tune. A travesty.:rollno:

Well the rest of the band went in the same direction too.

I guess you gotta pay rent and eat and stuff.

Chicago was a great band, but they got much more successful after they started doing the ballads.

At one point I understand compromise for success. But at their level I just don't see it. They were selling out arenas, set for life, and all had more money then they knew what to do with well before they compromised. In their case though, I think the death of Terry Kath had as much to with it as a decision to make money. He was the soul of that band, a great singer musician and writer. And they were not the only band that Producer David Foster made irrelevant.:hmm:

If I made what I think Pino probably makes with the Who, I would play under the stage in a box.

Count me in!

I love the smell of cardboard in the morning.....



dcr

If you don't count the money he made, I guess you can say that Victor Conte going form Tower of Power to Balco was a waste of talent.:D

Tommy Stinson playing for Axl Rose. Although that might more accurately be described as a waste of cool.

At one point I understand compromise for success. But at their level I just don't see it. They were selling out arenas, set for life, and all had more money then they knew what to do with well before they compromised. In their case though, I think the death of Terry Kath had as much to with it as a decision to make money. He was the soul of that band, a great singer musician and writer. And they were not the only band that Producer David Foster made irrelevant.:hmm:

Yeah, I didn't get it either...

I'm about to declare this thread to be ass. Don't worry about someone who makes more in a day than most of us make in a month wasting their talent. Worry about yourself sitting on the internet complaining about someone else wasting their talent.

It is not a waste of talent for Vinnie Colaiuta (my favorite drummer) to play with Faith Hill, or for Norm Stockton to play with a christian artist. Just because it isn't hard core fusion/jazz doesn't mean that it isn't creative and challenging music on a different level. Completely giving up the instrument would be a waste of talent. Vinnie and Norm are taking taking contemporary christian and country music up a notch, and that's a good thing.

I'm often amazed at how acknowledged great musicians can buy into the idea that bigger act = better gig. I do respect people like Chester Thompson who can stay focused on playing simpler music as well as possible within the constraints of the gig. That is a very professional attitude to take. But it is hard for me to understand what motivates someone like Daryl Jones to continue doing that gig after the first few million dollars.....? Perhaps it's a case of "where do I go from here?". To go back to doing smaller gigs might feel like some sort of failure to certain musicians.

I'm about to declare this thread to be ass. Don't worry about someone who makes more in a day than most of us make in a month wasting their talent. Worry about yourself sitting on the internet complaining about someone else wasting their talent.

Wow, this thread is a bit elitist to say the least. I mean the sell out that Chicago did is certainly understandable to merit criticism, I'm with you on that. However, dogging DJ for playing with the Stones. Umm, lets see. How would you like to be the bass player for one of the most important and successfull bands in the history of rock n roll???? Pino with the Who, Trujillo with Metallica??? Are you guys serious?!?!?!?!!!! Besides, these guys have to make a living as well. My guess is Roscoe is making alot more with the Dixie Chicks (who are good musicians by the way, not like it is Britney Spears or something) than he did in most his past work combined!!!! That is not selling out, that is being a first call sideman!

Lighten up guys, all respected bass players don't have to turn down high profile gigs to make basscentric solo albums that will be heard by only members of TB! Guys like Pino, DJ, Trujillo and Roscoe should be playing where they are b/c they don't just have the chops but the experience to handle such high profile gigs on stadium tours, etc.

Wow, this thread is a bit elitist to say the least. I mean the sell out that Chicago did is certainly understandable to merit criticism, I'm with you on that. However, dogging DJ for playing with the Stones. Umm, lets see. How would you like to be the bass player for one of the most important and successfull bands in the history of rock n roll???? Pino with the Who, Trujillo with Metallica??? Are you guys serious?!?!?!?!!!! Besides, these guys have to make a living as well. My guess is Roscoe is making alot more with the Dixie Chicks (who are good musicians by the way, not like it is Britney Spears or something) than he did in most his past work combined!!!! That is not selling out, that is being a first call sideman!

Lighten up guys, all respected bass players don't have to turn down high profile gigs to make basscentric solo albums that will be heard by only members of TB! Guys like Pino, DJ, Trujillo and Roscoe should be playing where they are b/c they don't just have the chops but the experience to handle such high profile gigs on stadium tours, etc.

+1

You have to understand that being a professional musician is a job. Most professional musicians spend a lot of time honing their skills to cover different musical situations, but they are rarely going to be called upon to use them all for one gig.

Take an auto mechanic for example. He's able to dismantle, fix and reassemble an engine. But, he also has to do many oil changes because that's a requirement of the job. In fact, he will be required to do oil changes far more than he'll have to do major repairs.

Aside from your specialists (Anthony Jackson, Percy Jones, maybe even Rocco Prestia), you need to do everything. And besides, who wouldn't want to play in from of a crowd of tens of thousands?

Speaking as an an automechanic myself this analogy is, unfortuneatly, spot on.

Steve Morse with Deep Purple

Adrian Belew with David Bowie

Stevie Ray Vaughn with David Bowie

I COMPLETELY disagree with all of these.

Stevie Ray Vaughn was an integral part of the "Let's Dance" album. His playing was unbelievably tasteful, and perfect for each of the songs. He did what he was paid to do, and very well.

I saw Adrian Belew with Bowie on that tour, and he stole the show. He was really good, and again, did what was perfect for the gig. I also saw Adrian with King Crimson many times, and while completely different, his playing and showmanship were no less stunning.

I have also seen Steve Morse with Deep Purple. He's a monster. I saw him with Kansas as well, and the Dregs, etc. All different situations where he got to showcase his musicianship and flexibility.

This is a ridiculous thread. A true professional will do what is right for the gig. It is not all about blowing chops 100% of the time. That gets tedious and old in a hurry. Listen, I can slap like a MoFo, but if I did that on a modern country gig I would be shown the door in less than 30 seconds. Same thing if I were to start blowing jazz chops on a metal gig. Everyone that has been mentioned in this thread are all top flight pros, and they are all getting top gigs for a reason - they do what is right for their employers, and are getting compensated very well for it. I would do the same thing in a heartbeat. It sure beats showing off in the basement for no money!

My $.02.

I'm about to declare this thread to be ass. Don't worry about someone who makes more in a day than most of us make in a month wasting their talent. Worry about yourself sitting on the internet complaining about someone else wasting their talent.

you know JimmyM, we agree and disagree about a few things from time to time... but in this case, I agree with this post and with this, I'm closing this thread before it gets ugly. I can't see this going on for very much longer, productively and constructively.