It was a great article. It is easy to forget how old Cetera is, he is only half a generation away from the roots of rock and roll and modern r&b. His explanation of putting down the bass made lots of sense. Like another TB'er mentioned in a closed thread, Cetera is a very gifted singer (4 1/2 octaves :eek:), and no one can blame him for focusing on his wonderful voice.
Since he is an ear player, I can see why he laid off playing on his solo work since it was the keyboard bass era, and he was working with big time producer's who were likley used to dealing with very skilled studio bassists.

I'm just glad he now realizes how much he is respected, and that he is back on the bass again.

I can't wait to see the article. Not only did I bury my self in Peter's lines growing up, but his band led me into my appreciation for Jazz. In 74 or 75 I read an interview with Robert Lamm (Chicago's Keyboards) and he was commenting on how much he loved Herbie Hancock. About a week after, PBS soundstage had a show with Herbie and I checked it out. The opening act was a band I had never heard of called Return to Forever. To see Stanley doing his thing, changed my whole attitudes about the possibilities of Music. It is ironic that the band that woke me up to possibility in music, destroyed their own legacy by playing it safe.

Chicago will never get the appreciation for their musicianship or the boundaries they broke due to what they became. In a sense what the industry became in the 80's contributed to it, but on the other hand these guys were set for life, and they very much made their own choices. While I understand taking a gig to pay the bills, I don't understand sacrificing your integrity when you've already arrived and forgetting what got you there. They became irrelevant by their own choice. When I mention Chicago to most younger players, I get weird looks, and Chicago has no one to blame but themselves.

I'm going to have to pick this up because I am a huge fan of Chicago and especially of Cetera(bass players are always my favorite members of bands:bassist:). I have a friend who is one of very few people in our school who share that common love for Chicago's music. We are getting together to play a couple songs for the school's variety show this year, to entertain and bring back some of the memories of the older folk that will be there to watch their kids.

I've always been a fan of Chicago and Cetera, even some of their cheesiest '80's moments. I wonder if Cetera penned the cool (synth) bass line in their smash ballad "You're the Inspiration"? Melodic pop noodling at it's best!

Yeah, Cetera had some cool licks. I love the bass intro to "Saturday in the Park."

This is probably the best cover story/Interview that BP has done in years. I was just about to cancel my subscription when the postman delivered this issue. Now all we need is a Jack Casady and a Harvey Brooks issue.

G

Yeah, Cetera had some cool licks. I love the bass intro to "Saturday in the Park."

Classic flatwound mic'ed speaker tone. Great band. 25 or 6 to 4 and all that ...

It's funny how some of these edgy and interesting acts in the 70s that went on to have huge commercial success in the 80s have a two identity problem. Mention REO SpeedWagon, Hall and Oates, Chicago, Foreigner, Kenny Loggins (Loggins & Messina) etc...

and you get two types of raised eyebrows:

A. What? You are kidding surely???
B. Hey, you know something there most people don't.

Great article. I forgot just how many huge hits Chicago had. Peter Cetera has some nice basses, too. That LPB '65 Jazz is sweet.

It's a great article. For some reason, I always thought that Cetera had the reputation for being somewhat of a 'jerk'. He comes off wonderfully in that article... very articulate and thoughtful, and even mentions how much he likes Jason Scheff's playing. Very cool!

And the Nordy review is nice also!!!!

This is probably the best cover story/Interview that BP has done in years. I was just about to cancel my subscription when the postman delivered this issue. Now all we need is a Jack Casady and a Harvey Brooks issue.

G

A Harvey Brooks issue??? ...now there's a blast! :cool:

If you want to hear some MONSTER pick playing, listen to "Free", off Chicago III. That song is a workshop. :bassist:

I'm going to have to pick this up because I am a huge fan of Chicago and especially of Cetera(bass players are always my favorite members of bands:bassist:). I have a friend who is one of very few people in our school who share that common love for Chicago's music. We are getting together to play a couple songs for the school's variety show this year, to entertain and bring back some of the memories of the older folk that will be there to watch their kids.

I was a Big "Chicago" fan in the '70s, but the shlock type music drove me away. Then I got free tickets to a Peter Cetera show at "The Nugget" in Reno, NV in 2006...3 songs and we were outta there! Serious Cheese. :rollno:

Great player, great article. Like the intro to the article said "Lost in the glint of brass-borne hits, however, lay one of the last untold stories in contemporary bass - until now."

Next untold story should be Mike Rutherford.

What do you know, my Bass Player 'script ran out after the November edition! Guess it's time to get back on the wagon.

Next untold story should be Mike Rutherford.

tru that.

Good thing I still have time to get a letter off to Santa, I have no idea what I did with a couple Genesis cassettes and 21 from Chicago. ;)

I really enjoyed the Peter Cetera article. It was a great change from the usual suspects like Geddy Lee, Victor Wooten, and Marcus Miller. I really felt that I learned some history, and Cetera really seemed humbled at the notion that bassists learned from him. I know am learning from him now. Although I know all of Chicago's hits from the radio, I went out and bought their debut album today, and I was blown away! Dang, they were talented! Lsitening to Cetera made me want to strap on a P-bass immediately! Chicago around 1969 must have really happening since Chicago and Earth, Wind, and Fire came out of there at the same time.:eek:

They became irrelevant by their own choice. When I mention Chicago to most younger players, I get weird looks, and Chicago has no one to blame but themselves.

Irrelevant by whose standards, yours? I know we disagree on this point but that is one word I can never see being used to describe their legacy. Yeah I too blame them for having a successful 35 yr run. :eyebrow:

A Harvey Brooks issue??? ...now there's a blast! :cool:

Sign me up!!!

Cetera made me want to play the bass when I was young. I took up guitar instead, before finally switching to bass.

Time to spin some old Chicago vinyl I guess (I have all the early albums up to Five, and a couple of later ones). Its about time I tried to cop a few of his bass lines.

Irrelevant by whose standards, yours? I know we disagree on this point but that is one word I can never see being used to describe their legacy. Yeah I too blame them for having a successful 35 yr run. :eyebrow:

IMO a vast majority of musicians (especially those exposed to music post late 70's) have no idea of the ground they broke or the level of musicianship they possessed. For instance many younger guitar players know about Hendrix, Clapton,Page or even Santana, but I get blank stares when I mention Terry Kath, a player who was certainly in the same class. Cetera, was as good a pop bass player as ANYONE in his era, but I don't think I've met one bass player born after 1970 who knows who he is. While they are relevant to me, I would call that irrelevant or at the very least unappreciated. And it was their own doing.:hmm:

I really enjoyed the Peter Cetera article. It was a great change from the usual suspects like Geddy Lee, Victor Wooten, and Marcus Miller. I really felt that I learned some history, and Cetera really seemed humbled at the notion that bassists learned from him. I know am learning from him now. Although I know all of Chicago's hits from the radio, I went out and bought their debut album today, and I was blown away! Dang, they were talented! Lsitening to Cetera made me want to strap on a P-bass immediately! Chicago around 1969 must have really happening since Chicago and Earth, Wind, and Fire came out of there at the same time.:eek:

CTA is an incredible and almost timeless CD. Dr, If you want to check out the next step, pick up Chicago V, perhaps the "jazziest" Album they did. Like I said earlier Chuck Rainy would be impressed by the bass playing on that CD!:bassist:

If you want to hear some MONSTER pick playing, listen to "Free", off Chicago III. That song is a workshop. :bassist:

That song is also a great example of Terry Kath's very underrated singing. IMHO

IMO a vast majority of musicians (especially those exposed to music post late 70's) have no idea of the ground they broke or the level of musicianship they possessed. For instance many younger guitar players know about Hendrix, Clapton,Page or even Santana, but I get blank stares when I mention Terry Kath, a player who was certainly in the same class. Cetera, was as good a pop bass player as ANYONE in his era, but I don't think I've met one bass player born after 1970 who knows who he is. While they are relevant to me, I would call that irrelevant or at the very least unappreciated. And it was their own doing.:hmm:

I now see where you're coming from, and I do agree. If you get a chance dig around on YouTube. There are some absolutely amazing old videos of the very early days. This one is where they are in the studio and Al Green comes in and sings a tune with them. Freakin priceless!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH37jdpuCTs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOvGa-8-Lns

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTFD1C4tVIg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggiYK3j8Meg&feature=related

And one of my all time Terry Kath fav's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gje_0OMj4h4&feature=related

IMO a vast majority of musicians (especially those exposed to music post late 70's) have no idea of the ground they broke or the level of musicianship they possessed. For instance many younger guitar players know about Hendrix, Clapton,Page or even Santana, but I get blank stares when I mention Terry Kath, a player who was certainly in the same class. Cetera, was as good a pop bass player as ANYONE in his era, but I don't think I've met one bass player born after 1970 who knows who he is. While they are relevant to me, I would call that irrelevant or at the very least unappreciated. And it was their own doing.:hmm:
Hardly any band can sustain a career for 40 years. Hardly any band can sustain a career for one hit single. Had Chicago not changed their sound in the 80's, they would have fallen by the wayside after Terry Kath died. You'll remember that their next albums didn't do all that great until David Foster came along. Hell, that 80's era bought them an extra 15 years of relevancy that they wouldn't have had otherwise. So you and your friends didn't like those songs. Fine. I didn't either. But that era increased their relevancy way longer than it should have gone, and I'm sure the members of Chicago greet you with the same blank stares ;)

What do you know, my Bass Player 'script ran out after the November edition! Guess it's time to get back on the wagon.



tru that.

Good thing I still have time to get a letter off to Santa, I have no idea what I did with a couple Genesis cassettes and 21 from Chicago. ;)


Yeah, I'm digg'in Peter C being this months issue of BP I thought it was about time!

And to the quote above - The next time a Genesis song comes on the radio and some says to me " I just love that Phil Collins" or "What Phil Collins CD is that song on"....I'm gonna snap.

Hardly any band can sustain a career for 40 years. Hardly any band can sustain a career for one hit single. Had Chicago not changed their sound in the 80's, they would have fallen by the wayside after Terry Kath died. You'll remember that their next albums didn't do all that great until David Foster came along. Hell, that 80's era bought them an extra 15 years of relevancy that they wouldn't have had otherwise. So you and your friends didn't like those songs. Fine. I didn't either. But that era increased their relevancy way longer than it should have gone, and I'm sure the members of Chicago greet you with the same blank stares ;)

Although I am a HUGE fan of their CTA-V era, I think 17 is a great album. The "Kath-Era" DVD is set to come out in late January. From what I am told, it will contain the Japan concert and other stuff from the early days. Should be great.

I have been a BP subscriber since day one and have wondered for years why we had not seen Peter Cetera. FINALLY!!

Here is some cool linkage-

Cetera said "McCartney was so in my head..."

Jaco said "I'd kill to play with you guys (Chicago); If you ever need a sub please call me!"

I wonder if they considered Jaco after Cetera left? I know they wanted a singer/bassist, but what if...????

Anyone who judges CHicago only by their later stuff is really missing one of the truly great bands of early rock.

I believe Jaco was already dead by the time Cetera left.

I believe Jaco was already dead by the time Cetera left.


Jaco died 9/21/87. Chicago 18 was released in 1986 with Scheff on bass.

CTA is an incredible and almost timeless CD. Dr, If you want to check out the next step, pick up Chicago V, perhaps the "jazziest" Album they did. Like I said earlier Chuck Rainy would be impressed by the bass playing on that CD!:bassist:

I agree. If you like CTA, you will LOVE "V" (my favorite). "Now That You've Gone" is a monster!!! Also, I highly reccomend that you invest in the Carnegie Hall set. It is a true live album.

Also, check out "Relayer" by YES (especially "Sound Chaser") for some real stretching.

, but I don't think I've met one bass player born after 1970 who knows who he is. While they are relevant to me, I would call that irrelevant or at the very least unappreciated. And it was their own doing.:hmm:


Well, I was born in 71, and I've played their material many a time. Cetera had some cool melodic stuff going on. And I agree with you about them being un-appreciated, although I feel under-appreciated fits them better.

great article but did not see any mention of his gibson basses. He used to be a Gibson sponser if I remeber.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTFD1C4tVIg

Hi

I also love early Chicago. When I was a senior in high school I went with some friends to see them at Carnegie Hall, it was April, 1971, and the live LP set was recorded during an entire week of shows. It was boringly called Chicago Live at Carnegie Hall. I even still have the ticket stub.

It was a tremendous show, enhanced greatly by the venue. CH is a great place to see any live music.

Glad BP had him on the cover too, I read that article first when it showed up in the mail last week!!

"Questions 67 & 68" Great vocal, great bass.

great article but did not see any mention of his gibson basses. He used to be a Gibson sponser if I remeber.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTFD1C4tVIg
He flirted with other basses but always came back to the Precision. The Gibson era didn't last long.

RE: Jaco/Cetera leaving timeline, I got the dates wrong, but by that time it would have been a moot point. Jaco was already too far gone and didn't want to hear about it. A friend of mine knew him well at that time, and once heard a guy tell him that he should get cleaned up and hit the studio and make another fortune. Jaco replied, "You wanna hang with me, you'll knock that **** off."

I think they wanted another singer anyway, so even if Jaco wanted to do it, they probably would have gotten a singing bassist anyway. Besides, I'm sure Jason Scheff was cheaper ;)

Chicago was unique in that they had three very high quality lead vocalist. Cetera (obviously), Terry Kath, whose singing I love and Robert Lamn. Also before Cetera became syrupy ballad man he had a real soulful voice too, check out his verses on I'm a man or Dialogue. And Lamn could get grungy too, check out Mama don't want to love me from seven. I can only think of two other bands that had that level of vocal abilities, the Beatles and CSNY.

He flirted with other basses but always came back to the Precision. The Gibson era didn't last long.

RE: Jaco/Cetera leaving timeline, I got the dates wrong, but by that time it would have been a moot point. Jaco was already too far gone and didn't want to hear about it. A friend of mine knew him well at that time, and once heard a guy tell him that he should get cleaned up and hit the studio and make another fortune. Jaco replied, "You wanna hang with me, you'll knock that **** off."

I think they wanted another singer anyway, so even if Jaco wanted to do it, they probably would have gotten a singing bassist anyway. Besides, I'm sure Jason Scheff was cheaper ;)

Kath played most of the bass on seven, as Cetera was already easing his way out.

Cetera did use Gibson EB-3 basses, whether he endorsed them or not I don't know. On his web site, he has a '70's poster of him with a Gibson Ripper I think. Under the picture is the sentence "And I hated the bass." He also used a Music Man Sting Ray, and Fender P Bass often, and at times a Rickenbacker I believe. He dosen't get the credit he deserves as a great bassist who has influenced a lot of players, myself included.:)

Kath played most of the bass on seven, as Cetera was already easing his way out.

You mean VII, the seventh album? That was released in '74 I believe. Cetera didn't leave them until the 80's. That was a long stretch of easing his way out.

OK, I must be bored...I just went & dug out my first issue of Down Beat (Dec. 20, 1973). I had now owned a bass for about a year now & was interested in learning about the 'good players'. So my Jazz drumming uncle gave me this issue.
Anyway, it's the Readers' Poll issue. Of the 20 bassists listed, At the time, I had only heard of 3-
Jack Bruce, Chris Squire, & Peter Cetera.
Here's the listing-
893 Ron Carter
854 Stanley Clarke
484 Richard Davis
404 Ray Brown
330 Miroslav Vitous
287 Charles Mingus
128 Charlie haden
127 Cecil McBee
85 Jack Bruce
80 Eddie Gomez
77 Larry Ridley
71 Dave Holland
65 Rick Laird
64 Jimmy Garrison
56 Peter Cetera
56 Jack Six
53 George Mraz
43 Milt Hinton
30 Chris Squire

Gotta admit, I recall asking my cousin "Why Cetera? Is he that good "?
(In my young head, I could understand Bruce & Squire...a couple years later, I kinda thought it funny that they would be on this sort of list). :)
My cousin said something to the effect of "...this is a Jazz magazine & he has some Jazz chops while most Rock bass players don't". IIRC, I then began listening to Chicago's non-Top 20 hits.

My Cetera buried nugget is "Brand New Love Affair, Parts 1 & 2" from VIII.
More props to "Free"...sounds like Jamerson meets Rocco.

Does anyone know what amps he used on the classic recordings? If I had to guess I'd say perhaps Sunn, but thats just a guess on my part. I'd really like to know from someone who saw shows back then or had info on the studio setup. Thanks!

Greg

"Questions 67 & 68" Great vocal, great bass.


+1000000000000000

Great bass, especially on the instrumental interlude.

Does anyone know what amps he used on the classic recordings? If I had to guess I'd say perhaps Sunn, but thats just a guess on my part. I'd really like to know from someone who saw shows back then or had info on the studio setup. Thanks!

Greg
Ampeg B-15 for most of it.

Anyway, it's the Readers' Poll issue. Of the 20 bassists listed, At the time, I had only heard of 3-
Jack Bruce, Chris Squire, & Peter Cetera.
Here's the listing-
893 Ron Carter
854 Stanley Clarke
484 Richard Davis
404 Ray Brown
330 Miroslav Vitous
287 Charles Mingus
128 Charlie haden
127 Cecil McBee
85 Jack Bruce
80 Eddie Gomez
77 Larry Ridley
71 Dave Holland
65 Rick Laird
64 Jimmy Garrison
56 Peter Cetera
56 Jack Six
53 George Mraz
43 Milt Hinton
30 Chris Squire



I know this is a Cetera thread, but .. NO McCartney??:mad:

I know this is a Cetera thread, but .. NO McCartney??:mad:
1) It was DownBeat, and the Beatles just did not have jazz cred.
2) It was 1973, and the Beatles were 5 years gone.
3) Chicago had horns. Silly but true.
4) With the exception of Jack Bruce (??) all the others were either straight jazz, or fusion (Vitous, Weather Rept; Laird, Mahavishnu)

edit: OK, Chris Squire... He was different, very unique even then, and the band was sometimes technical in the fusion sort of way. Still only got 30 votes to Ron Carter's almost 900.

At the suggestion of an earlier post, I checked out youtube. On this version of "Saturday in the Park" Cetera is playing some soulful stuff.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWxA3e9f6rY&feature=related


At 2:36 through 2:45 he played such a tasty phrase; truly a creative dude......

Mike

Great article. I am an old fart who used to have that VW size poster form the Live at Carnegie Hall 4 lp box stuck to my wall....

It made me go dig out the DVD Audios I have of II and V, the sound on these is out of this world. the sound on II, for the stereo version is done at 192khz and 24 bit. it feels like the horns are in the room with you.

Like someone said above, Jaco wanted his gig!

I only really know I-V, beacuse by V, I had put a cape on, and thought I was Chris Squire....

Here's the listing-
893 Ron Carter
854 Stanley Clarke
484 Richard Davis
404 Ray Brown
330 Miroslav Vitous
287 Charles Mingus
128 Charlie haden
127 Cecil McBee
85 Jack Bruce
80 Eddie Gomez
77 Larry Ridley
71 Dave Holland
65 Rick Laird
64 Jimmy Garrison
56 Peter Cetera
56 Jack Six
53 George Mraz
43 Milt Hinton
30 Chris Squire


Wow, no Bob Cranshaw! I remember him being on all the Downbeat lists when I was a kid.

At the suggestion of an earlier post, I checked out youtube. On this version of "Saturday in the Park" Cetera is playing some soulful stuff.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWxA3e9f6rY&feature=related


At 2:36 through 2:45 he played such a tasty phrase; truly a creative dude......

Mike

Err..... that's his replacement Jason Scheff NOT Peter Cetera. ;) He has embellished a typical Cetera line though...:cool:


I CAN'T WAIT for this issue to hit the stores here in the UK!! I'm checking the shop everyday for it....

Finally, the article I've been waiting for.... and only two months after my other fave Tiran Porter of The Doobie Brothers!! Thank you Bass Player Magazine! :hyper::hyper:

As you can tell by my username I'm a HUGE Cetera fan. I'm in the process of forming a Chicago tribute here in the UK but getting the other players together is proving challenging....

To address earlier questions:

Peter used the following basses with Chicago:

Gibson EB-3
Fender Precision (blonde w/maple board)
Fender Precision (blonde w/rosewood board)
Fender Precision (white w/rosewood board)
Gibson Grabber (maple e/maple board) - he hated this one
Fender 70's Jazz (black w/maple board/blocks)
Fender 70's Jazz (white w/maple board/blocks)
MusicMan Stingray (Black w/maple board)
MusicMan Stingray (Red w/black pickguard & maple board)
Spector NS-1
Steinberger

Live he played through Acoustic & Ampegs from 1967 - approx 1974 then went over to Sound City. I've no idea what he used after 1978....

Here is Chicago with Cetera. Circa 1972

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTFD1C4tVIg&feature=related

Here is one of my Fav Chicago tunes of all time! Dig it! 1975 Love Terry's Phaze guitar on this one too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHTr4Bs_sg4&feature=related

Another version with Jason Scheff on bass and Vocal. He was a great replacement for Peter and IMO jst a bit more of a bass player! Well he came from a good family of bass! (Jerry Scheff) :) :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0lYqWnwVN0&feature=related

"""Err..... that's his replacement Jason Scheff NOT Peter Cetera.""""

Thanks for the education. Read up on him.I believe Jason's still with Chicago, correct?


Mike

"""Err..... that's his replacement Jason Scheff NOT Peter Cetera.""""

Thanks for the education. Read up on him.I believe Jason's still with Chicago, correct?

Mike

Correct. He's a fine bassist.... and a good singer, despite what some 'purists'say about him. After all, it disturbs people's comfort zones to hear someone else sing songs made legendary by someone else.

Personally, I can't think of a better replacement for Peter Cetera as a dual bassist/singer.... apart from maybe Richard Page of Mr Mister who apparently was also considered at the time...

I will admit, I was in the "born-after-1970-only-knew-the-80s-hits" camp. I thought Chicago was SO cheesey. Then when I was in my 20s, I started hearing some of the older songs and realized these guys were players and that even the Adult Contemporary guy was a great bass player. Imagine me telling all my prog-rock playing friends and band-mates they should check out Chicago and getting wierd looks.

By the way, I like the fact that Kim Thayil from Soundgarden always counts Terry Kath as an early influence.

IMO a vast majority of musicians (especially those exposed to music post late 70's) have no idea of the ground they broke or the level of musicianship they possessed. For instance many younger guitar players know about Hendrix, Clapton,Page or even Santana, but I get blank stares when I mention Terry Kath, a player who was certainly in the same class. Cetera, was as good a pop bass player as ANYONE in his era, but I don't think I've met one bass player born after 1970 who knows who he is. While they are relevant to me, I would call that irrelevant or at the very least unappreciated. And it was their own doing.:hmm:

I was about one year into playing bass the day Terry Kath shot himself playing with a gun..........and I cried. I was at Michigan State and when I heard the news I called my girlfriend back in Westland, Michigan but her phone was busy. About five minutes later she called me and said she called five minutes before, but my phone was busy.........we called each other at the same exact time!!!! We loved Chicago!! "Beginnings" was our song. It seems so recent yet so long ago too.

Back in the 70's I played in a Chicago/BST cover band. It's good to see Peter get some respect for his playing. When I think about it, my style is a combination of Chicago/BST/and Grand Funk. (What a conbination)

I was about one year into playing bass the day Terry Kath shot himself playing with a gun..........and I cried. I was at Michigan State and when I heard the news I called my girlfriend back in Westland, Michigan but her phone was busy. About five minutes later she called me and said she called five minutes before, but my phone was busy.........we called each other at the same exact time!!!! We loved Chicago!! "Beginnings" was our song. It seems so recent yet so long ago too.

On January 23rd 2008 it is 30 years since Terry's sad death.

I have written to Guitarist magazine here in the UK demanding that they mark the anniversary with a good article on him. I recommend you guys do the same and contact the US guitar magazines (Guitar Player etc). He has been so sadly underrated and ignored for too many years. Together "we can make it happen.... yeah.... we can make it happen!"

Getting the issue in the mail was the best thing I've gotten from BP in 12 years of reading the mag. It got old telling people the same stories of Cetera and Chicago became a huge influence in pop, rock, R&B an jazz bass playing only to have people's eyes glaze over.

I was 4 years old in 1979 when Chicago and Cetera's influence hit me. My dad is a bass player and would play to Cetera's lines while I sat in the dining room listening.

His effect and the band's total effect have been profound.

Incidentally if you want to hear what Chicago would sound like if they weren't trying to sell records these days - check out Robert Lamm's solo record Subtlety and Passion releases in 2004. Two thirds of Chicago are playing on it including the Scheff and Imboden. It's Lamm's writing and arrangements - no schmultz - And there's even a guest appearance from the "soul" of Chicago.

Every Chicago fan must own this album -- and frankly the band owes it to the fans to put together one more album of this caliber

When I think about it, my style is a combination of Chicago/BST/and Grand Funk. (What a combination)
Very cool in my opinion...:cool:
While were on the subject, Chicago's latest release is fabulous. Jason Scheff has now been in the group far longer than PC was, although they clearly made their mark in their earlier days. I honestly can't think of a better replacement in any group that worked as well as PC.- JS. Jason is one of the few "busy" players that I really like. His melodic lines while singing lead parts never ceases to amaze me.

Peter used the following basses with Chicago:

Gibson EB-3
Fender Precision (blonde w/maple board)
Fender Precision (blonde w/rosewood board)
Fender Precision (white w/rosewood board)
Fender 70's Jazz (black w/maple board/blocks)
Fender 70's Jazz (white w/maple board/blocks)
MusicMan Stingray (Black w/maple board)
MusicMan Stingray (Red w/black pickguard & maple board)
Spector NS-1
Steinberger


Just picked up the Cetera BP issue...on the cover, he is playing a black Rick?!?

Peter also played a Gibson "Grabber" bass on Saturday Night Live.

GN

I agree. If you like CTA, you will LOVE "V" (my favorite). "Now That You've Gone" is a monster!!! Also, I highly reccomend that you invest in the Carnegie Hall set. It is a true live album.

Also, check out "Relayer" by YES (especially "Sound Chaser") for some real stretching.

I picked up Chicago V last Friday while visiting the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and you are right, DZIB. It is full of wonderful bass playing.:)

Another bassline of his worth checking out/rediscovering is "What's This World Comin' To?" from Chicago VI.... just brilliant...! :smug:

This topic made me go dig out my old Chicago stuff, I through VII actually.....what fine music, and excellent bass playing, regardless of what some clueless people might say in another topic.

But what also surprised me was I forgot how POLITICAL this stuff was, them coming out of Chicago around 1968...

"The whole world is watching, the whole world is watching.." It was like a time machine back to the days of my youth (where I would never have dissed a guy like Cetera on a site like this, if they had sites like this way back then...) ;)

Ironically, I was coming of age and listening to all the early Chicago records concurrently to Pearl Jam's first 2 albums and to my ear they were saying the exact same things with just as much angst and creativity only 25 years removed.

The more the world changes, the more it stays the same...

The more the world changes, the more it stays the same...

Ain't that the truth!

some one who was there in 68, might beg to differ...just sayin, ya know....

PJ never had to worry about the draft...the draft made things MUCH different

" you are, you are on a plane now, and on your way up northhhhhhh...
Canada, is so far from where, you want to be..."

I actually believe the war ending (along with Kaths death) actually hurt Chicago. Their music didn't have the same passion afterwards. It was like they needed something to believe in, to quote Brett Michaels. They were a very political group, certainly as political as any pop band during their era. The Viet Nam war effected EVERY college age kid until Nixon ended the draft. If you weren't going it was because you got a deferment (a lot of work for most kids), and everyone had a friend who went.

In the article, I like when Cetera talked about his 1st bass & how he had it tuned the same as the 4 low strings of a guitar-
"Gee, this doesn't sound so deep".
Then someone sits in, plays it, & sez "What the Hell?!"

I picked up Chicago V last Friday while visiting the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and you are right, DZIB. It is full of wonderful bass playing.:)


Glad I could be of service, sir!!!

I picked up Chicago V last Friday while visiting the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and you are right, DZIB. It is full of wonderful bass playing.:)


Trust me on the Carnegie Hall set. It is a real "live" album. They kicked butt live. TRUST ME!!! I guarantee you will love it too.

Peace

Just received my issue[it takes a bit to make it out here], great article! It was also very cool for him to mention Andy Fraser, one of my biggest influences.

I picked up my copy. Enjoyed the story and interview, but felt it could have been a little more in-depth. Cool cover picture, of him playing the Ric.

Trust me on the Carnegie Hall set. It is a real "live" album. They kicked butt live. TRUST ME!!! I guarantee you will love it too.

Peace

Yes, its a real live album, but the band wasn't real happy with the recorded sound of that box set. James Pankow said the horns sounded like kazoos.

Anyway, here we are 35+ years later, still enjoying talking about this band. I was a fan, still like their early stuff (I was listening to the 1st CTA album last night, and heard Poem 58 for the 1st time in many years. Pretty wild stuff. Almost psychedelic.

Remember the critics just ripping them and their music apart in the music magazines and such? I remember one Rolling Stone review that said nobody in the band could really sing, so what did they add to the band? A conga player instead of a singer (Laudir DeOliviera). Also, the schmaltzy Chicago logo that they kept schlepping up their album covers with, stuff like that.

Also, the schmaltzy Chicago logo that they kept schlepping up their album covers with, stuff like that.

That logo was one of the things you could always count on...that & an album with more than 1 LP (until V came around). ;)

Their 1st album has always been one of my favourite debut recordings...any genre.

Their 1st album has always been one of my favourite debut recordings...any genre.

Yes, its good. Well, most of it, IMO. As much as I liked Terry Kath, I didn't care for Free Form Guitar very much. And I didn't care for Liberation. Most of the rest is very listenable to me.

"Free Form Guitar" is what it is...back in the early daze, I'm sure I skipped over that piece. Much later, I got into it (as I got into "noiser" material).
I haven't listened to it in maybe 5 years or so...I think the "Eruption" fans would dig it.
;)

Trust me on the Carnegie Hall set. It is a real "live" album. They kicked butt live. TRUST ME!!! I guarantee you will love it too.

Peace

A great live album to be sure.... but I always much preferred the 'Live in Japan' album from the same period. Check around for the CD on eBay etc...

A great live album to be sure.... but I always much preferred the 'Live in Japan' album from the same period. Check around for the CD on eBay etc...

LIJ is a great one too, although I prefer CH due to the fact I bought it when it was released in 1971. I got LIJ a few years ago. I guess it's the nostalgia factor.

As far as "Liberation" goes, It is pretty laborious until the end. It has a great climax. "Free Form Guitar" is aptly titled. If you like long guitar jams I guess it would be good. I'd rather listen to Kath's guitar work on "South California Purples" or "It Better End Soon".

The interaction between Terry and Peter in the middle of Better End Soon on CH is effortless and inspiring.

Sing A Mean Tune Kid is another killer live cut - Cetera's vocals are saucy and soulful. They capture the lyrics very well. And his wah-wah bass line is the anchor for the entire song. Check out Terry's blistering solos throughout the song.

On LIJ - Peter takes the the only bass solo I know of that's captured on tape - tasty AND funky!

A great live album to be sure.... but I always much preferred the 'Live in Japan' album from the same period. Check around for the CD on eBay etc...

LIJ sounds a little better than Carnegie Hall (better recording, IMO)...the price for the OOP LIJ album is pretty high. For the time being (until it's re-issued?), I picked up a 'copy' from iTunes ($12-$13).

Same thing went for the Carnegie Hall set; when it was OOP, the prices were crazy. Thankfully, it was recently re-issued.

LIJ sounds a little better than Carnegie Hall (better recording, IMO)...the price for the OOP LIJ album is pretty high. For the time being (until it's re-issued?), I picked up a 'copy' from iTunes ($12-$13).

Same thing went for the Carnegie Hall set; when it was OOP, the prices were crazy. Thankfully, it was recently re-issued.

I found a near-mint, virtually unplayed Carnegie Hall box set on vinyl in an antique shop a couple of years ago. It even had all the posters, booklet and inserts in there, in mint shape. Got it for $15.00. Not bad eh?

I think it's interesting to note that the early Chicago albums along with the second[and classic] Blood Sweat & Tears albums were produced by James Guerico, who I think was also a bassplayer. The bass tone and prominence in the mix on those albums still sound great almost forty years later.

I think it's interesting to note that the early Chicago albums along with the second[and classic] Blood Sweat & Tears albums were produced by James Guerico, who I think was also a bassplayer. The bass tone and prominence in the mix on those albums still sound great almost forty years later.

Indeed he was..... he toured with the Beach Boys....

I'd be interested to hear what he could do with the band these days but since the lawsuit I don't see that happening!

Next untold story should be Mike Rutherford.

I missed the Cetera issue so I'll order it online - I want to agree with the Mike Rutherford idea though. +100 on that one.

FWIW, Daryl Stuermer is interviewed on the Lakland site (http://www.lakland.com/news/int_steurmer.htm) and he offers a little insight on Mike's playing.

Great article. I am an old fart who used to have that VW size poster form the Live at Carnegie Hall 4 lp box stuck to my wall....

LOL! That poster was classic.

Personally, I can't think of a better replacement for Peter Cetera as a dual bassist/singer.... apart from maybe Richard Page of Mr Mister who apparently was also considered at the time...

It's my understanding he was offered *both* the Toto and Chicago gigs but wanted to stay true to his bandmates and try to make Mr. Mister a long term success.

Geez.. I think these guys are playing the county fair here in a couple months...judging from the ad in the paper, there's only 1/3 of one original member still in the band (a prothesis of some sort, set on a stool with a spotlight on it--gets a rousing introduction, so I hear)

I thought they still had all the horns and the keyboard player.

Zomby-
I think you're correct..
jojo is sayin' "...only 1/3 of one original member still in the band...".
Sounds a bit macabre to me.

Keys (Robert Lamm) and horns (Pankow/Parazaider/Loughnane) all still there.

Jason Scheff has been there over 20 years, Bill Champlin even longer....

Tris Imboden and Keith Howland have also both been there 15+ years I believe....

The thing is, the last two times I saw the current incarnation of Chicago on TV, they sounded much more like a Chicago tribute band than like Chicago. Nothing new brought to the table at all, either in material or in interpretation. It really sounded like even Walter (the most vibrant soloist still in the band) was just going through the motions and phoning in the parts. Everything was played with pristine perfection, but no life.

But, then the last time I saw Chicago live, Terry Kath was still in the band tearing things up.

jte

I agree with that description of the "new" Chicago.

What really bothers be is all the people who bash Peter Cetera for his "ballads" - some of those songs were a sign of the times and that is the direction pop music was going then.

I personally had no problem with it but what I didn't like was all the synthesized bass lines and drum machines that started to invade the music.

In a way, I can understand why he left the band as things were changing and as a musician, maybe he didn't feel comfortable.

I for one can NOT listen to post Cetera Chicago because (to me) some of the songs sound like they were recorded with a Casio keyboard using the "auto chords" and built in drum rhythms.

Just my $.02, I really liked Peter's bass playing.

The thing is, the last two times I saw the current incarnation of Chicago on TV, they sounded much more like a Chicago tribute band than like Chicago. Nothing new brought to the table at all, either in material or in interpretation. It really sounded like even Walter (the most vibrant soloist still in the band) was just going through the motions and phoning in the parts. Everything was played with pristine perfection, but no life.
e

Sadly that's what most babyboomer concert goers want these days, a nice safe package. Earth Wind & Fire are another once vibrant band that uses a lot of tracks these days so they can do the dance steps and play it safe. Most of these bands make their bucks on the Vegas/corporate circuit that does not like them to go outside the lines.:(

The Ripper!

http://www.vintageguitars.org.uk/graphics/gibsonripper77.jpg

http://www.vintageguitars.org.uk/graphics/gibbass75p1.jpg

I was in a band back in the day that did most of the stuff from the first 8 albums, so you could say I cut my bass teeth on Cetera's brilliant lines.

I was also fortunate enough to see them live when Terry Kath was still around, touring for Chicago VII.

I always got a kick out out of seeing Peter with a RIPPER! I started gassing for one, even though I knew it was a bit of a dog.

LOL, I have a hard time just looking at that bass!

:hiding:

Nice strap on that Ripper ;)

It's so funny seeing him posing with that bass knowing that he actually HATED it and tried to use it as little as possible! :D

Dog or not, The Ripper is the main bass used on one of the best selling albums of all time: Nirvana's "Nevermind". The tone is awesome, by the way. I use mine for recording and playing out all the time. Can't say it's anymore of a dog than a p-bass. IMHO.

I was just listening to Peter's line in "Beginnings" -- all I can say is WOW!

It's funny how you can hear something new in old songs, no matter how many times you have heard them before. I can really see how Paul McCartney would have been an influence. Peter is all over the neck.