Todd,

I have been playing bass now for about 12 years, starting about the mid 90's or so. I grew up in the north east, and befriended many young musicians in high school that loved and played nothing but jam based music. Almost from the start I was playing with these guys in bands like this. Think of bands like Phish, to a lesser extent the Grateful Dead, etc., for our inspiration. However, thanks to my Father and Grandfater, I've been exposed to jazz all my life. It is a good 50% of what I listen to regularly, with fusion forms taking the other 50%. Anyways, in all these years, I've played nothing but the jam type funky fusion stuff. I am almost completely self taught, with the exception of a few lessons that helped get my technique a bit more refined, but that was about 10 years ago. I've learned my fretboard, and feel that for the most part I can improvise reasonably well, considering that is mostly what jam bands do anyways and that is virtually all I know. However, I never took a single music class in school, and never learned anything about theory, and I obviously can't read music. Actually, lets put it this way. I am a blank slate when it comes to theory. While I've been playing for a while now, and some of the stuff I've been playing may be explained through theory, I'm not doing it consciously. I've always played what I thought sounded good, and never had a need to put much more thought into than that.

However, I'm at a point where I would love to join a jazz trio or quartet or whatever, and just sit back and play standards. I met with a small jazz group this past weekend, and lets just say it didn't go so well. I was completely up front about my greeness to Jazz, and they were all willing to humor me. I played shortly with a contemporary ensemble in my church, and followed along with the music by reading the keys written over the bars of the pianists sheet music. I thought that maybe I could transfer this method to playing with a jazz group. So I met with these jazz musicians as I mentioned, and they started me off on what they said was a very simple song with an easy to follow progression, and it wasn't that bad. I actually thought it came out good. But as we moved on to other songs, I found that things weren't so easy anymore. I had trouble following the progressions, and my skill at walking bass lines is weak to say the least. Again, I play what I think sounds best, but this time that wasn't working. I was having trouble following more complicated progressions and walking along with them. I would quickly lose my place, and things would go down hill.

So, think of me as a lump of clay. I want to play Jazz, and I want to start from scratch. Mold me. :D

Thanks,
~Tony

building walking bass lines by ed mcfriedland. get it. it has all sorts of goodness in it.

Hey, Tony. I think you are asking the right guy; and as soon as Todd gets a chance (he stays on the road a good bit these days), I'm sure he will reply personally. But, if you don't mind, I'll toss in my two cents until then.

You and I have very similar stories. Except, for me, all my music playing was in blues--jazz style walking was totally outside of my experience. Like you, I wanted to get into playing traditional/standards and didn't have a clue where to start. I got several of the books on the market for building walking bass lines, and I'm sure they are quite good, but, for some reason, it would just never "click". I could never translate what I read/studied in the books to something I could really use when I was sitting with experienced jazz musicians. Then, thanks to this forum, I stumbled across Todd.

After reading up on him and some of the things he said here, I decided to get his DVD "Walking Bass Line Module System Volume 1". Well, after just working with the material on that DVD for a couple of weeks, it all finally clicked. Now, I'm not going to say I magically became a master jazzer or anything like that, but I did finally understand what I was trying to achieve with my bass lines and understand how to approach building those lines.

You don't have to have a lot of theory to get the most of the DVD course--pretty much, if you understand what the root, third and fifth of a chord are, then you are good to go. (If you are not familiar with those concepts, the information is readily available. In fact, one post in music section of talkbass should give you a few hundred explanations.) The DVD starts off with just using the root note to move through the chord changes and then slowly builds up to using other chord and passing tones until you have a working toolbox of modules (or "phrases") that you can use in a musical context.

After working with this DVD for just a couple of months, I landed a gig playing jazz standards for a 4th of July party. Again, I'm not going to say my playing absolutely knocked anyone's socks off, but the other musicians in the combo were very pleased with my ability to walk the changes and keep the music swinging--something I couldn't do on my best day before studying Todd's lessons. I'm currently working on Volume 2 in the set now, but 99% of what I play when I sit in with a jazz group comes right from the material Todd presents in Volume 1.

Another very cool thing about Todd is that he is VERY generous with his time. You can scan through his posts here and find where he has offered to talk to folks on the phone to help explain something they just couldn't grasp in the forums. I can speak from experience that every time I have had a question, and some of mine had nothing to do with jazz as much as just my musical goals and directions, he has always been willing to spend time with me sharing his knowledge and experience.

Anyway, as I said, I'm sure Todd will reply to this as soon as he gets a moment but, from my experience, go ahead and get the first volume DVD in Todd's walking bass line course--I think you will be VERY happy with the results.

Thank you SmittyG for your great advice. I will do just what you recommended and order Todd's Lesson DVD. Again, thank you for taking the time to post. You have been most helpful.

Glad to be of help. :)

A slightly different answer.

- Seek out a beginning jazz course at a community college (sit in on one before hand if you can). Or find a good jazz instructor (bass initially, piano may work for you.)

- Listen to essential jazz recordings. The first CD I would seriously start listening and copping is Miles Davis's Kind of Blue.

- Buy The Real Book No1 and learn some of the more familiar tunes.

- Show up at jam sessions and listen. Jump in when you are ready.

I had been playing guitar for a long time before I took the step up to jazz and bass 7 years ago by enrolling in a course, learning how to read music, learning music theory and acquiring ear training. By the end of the second semester I was gigging with piano trios in restaurants and becoming a better overall musician.

Good luck, whatever path you take.

playing with records u love is one of the best ways to dig improvisation correctly i feel.there's tones of great records to check out(the ray brown thing with oscar peterson is extremely good and a lot of tunes r somehow easy to play). :)
cheers

I enrolled in a Music Theory 1A and Group Performance 1 (Jazz Ensemble) this year at what you guys would call a community college.

Best thing I've ever done for my playing. I have a long way to go - but in a short year I've learnt so much.

:thu:

Todd,

I have been playing bass now for about 12 years, starting about the mid 90's or so. I grew up in the north east, and befriended many young musicians in high school that loved and played nothing but jam based music. Almost from the start I was playing with these guys in bands like this. Think of bands like Phish, to a lesser extent the Grateful Dead, etc., for our inspiration. However, thanks to my Father and Grandfater, I've been exposed to jazz all my life. It is a good 50% of what I listen to regularly, with fusion forms taking the other 50%. Anyways, in all these years, I've played nothing but the jam type funky fusion stuff. I am almost completely self taught, with the exception of a few lessons that helped get my technique a bit more refined, but that was about 10 years ago. I've learned my fretboard, and feel that for the most part I can improvise reasonably well, considering that is mostly what jam bands do anyways and that is virtually all I know. However, I never took a single music class in school, and never learned anything about theory, and I obviously can't read music. Actually, lets put it this way. I am a blank slate when it comes to theory. While I've been playing for a while now, and some of the stuff I've been playing may be explained through theory, I'm not doing it consciously. I've always played what I thought sounded good, and never had a need to put much more thought into than that.

However, I'm at a point where I would love to join a jazz trio or quartet or whatever, and just sit back and play standards. I met with a small jazz group this past weekend, and lets just say it didn't go so well. I was completely up front about my greeness to Jazz, and they were all willing to humor me. I played shortly with a contemporary ensemble in my church, and followed along with the music by reading the keys written over the bars of the pianists sheet music. I thought that maybe I could transfer this method to playing with a jazz group. So I met with these jazz musicians as I mentioned, and they started me off on what they said was a very simple song with an easy to follow progression, and it wasn't that bad. I actually thought it came out good. But as we moved on to other songs, I found that things weren't so easy anymore. I had trouble following the progressions, and my skill at walking bass lines is weak to say the least. Again, I play what I think sounds best, but this time that wasn't working. I was having trouble following more complicated progressions and walking along with them. I would quickly lose my place, and things would go down hill.

So, think of me as a lump of clay. I want to play Jazz, and I want to start from scratch. Mold me. :D

Thanks,
~Tony

Hi Tony!

Hey, thanks for your patience. Sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner.

Well, it sounds like you've gotten some very good advice from everybody. It's a great group of guys here at TalkBass isn't it?!! (Well done guys!! I'm proud of you all...:D...)

Anyway.....here goes:

THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO IS EDUCATE YOURSELF!!!

This is one of the best investments you can make. Your natural talent and instincts are great, but now you need more. So....you need help. WE ALL DO!!!

(BTW, this education process is a LIFE LONG process!! :D;):cool: )

So, how do you go about educating yourself?? Actually, the guys have "pretty much" given you my answer......and the answer is kind of "all over" my forum....it just might not be in one place. Make sense???

Anyway....

1. Study with the best teacher you can find in your area. It's vital that you have someone to be accountable to....that can really help you dissect individual problems and questions as they arise.

2. ZON GUY recommended you enroll in a local Jr. College type program. ABSOLUTELY!!! This will REALLY help and get you involved with other "like minded people". This is critical....plus you'll be involved in ensembles etc.

3. Invest in my DVD's. Ok, this is self serving.....I admit it. BUT...I know my DVD's have the correct information in them and they're presented in a concise and logical manner. Plus I've seen them help countless guys accomplish EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO. In fact, I've produced these DVD's for guys EXACTLY LIKE YOU. SmittyG is a prime example....his testimony should speak for itself. Cool??? Cool....:cool:

4. LISTEN TO JAZZ!!! Jazz is a language....you have to IMMERSE yourself in it if you want to understand what's being said. Make sense?? This is definitely covered elsewhere in my forum.

Realize that to be the player you want to be it'll take 2 - 4 hours of work a day for at least 2 - 3 years to accomplish what you're shooting for.

Oh, one more suggestion.........

IF YOU'RE REALLY SERIOUS....I mean REALLY SERIOUS about realizing your potential......

then go to:

www.jimstinnett.com and check out his "BASS WORK OUTS".

Jim Stinnett is arguably THE BEST TEACHER I'VE EVER SEEN.....PERIOD!!

He has THE BEST PROGRAM I'VE BEEN A PART OF....PERIOD. I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND you get involved with what he's doing. He has programs for different levels......and the New Hampshire Bass Fest in June 2008 is a CAN'T MISS......OK??? All the info is at his site....

All right then.......that should get you started.

Please let me know how I can be of further assistance.

Thanks again for your patience.

I'm here to help.

hey tony!

i have been pretty close to starting a similar thread lately as i really would liek to get into jazz and although i ahev a bit of a theory backround, i mostly have played jam/rock/funk/soul/hiphop/blues throughout the course of my bass life, without any real history in jazz.
my best recomendation as a local guy would be to get ahold of mike dimin and take a few lessons with him, he will help your theory knowledge in a huge way and can most certainly help tog et yo going with jazz. not to mention, he teaches lessons a couple days per week only a couple miles away from you.

good luck man!

Thanks for your help everyone. I have Todd's "Walking Bassline Module 1" DVD on my christmas list, so I will likely be getting that. I'm not sure I'm going to have any time in the near future to take scheduled lessons with anyone, and I sure won't be able to join any college programs unfortunately. I'll just do my best to learn on my own, and hopefull Todd's DVD gives me a good start.

Thanks for your help everyone. I have Todd's "Walking Bassline Module 1" DVD on my christmas list, so I will likely be getting that. I'm not sure I'm going to have any time in the near future to take scheduled lessons with anyone, and I sure won't be able to join any college programs unfortunately. I'll just do my best to learn on my own, and hopefull Todd's DVD gives me a good start.

Tony,

Give me a holler even if you want to do a "one-off" every now and then

Mike

Tony,

Give me a holler even if you want to do a "one-off" every now and then

Mike

Much appreciated Mike. I'll certainly contact you when needed.

Hi Tony,

Let me know how things are going when you get the chance.

I'm on the road right now and won't be home until March 20th, but give me a shout after that and let me know how you're doing. OK??

Cool....

Hi Tony,

Let me know how things are going when you get the chance.

I'm on the road right now and won't be home until March 20th, but give me a shout after that and let me know how you're doing. OK??

Cool....

Hey Todd,

My wife bought me your Walking Bass Lines Modules - Vol 1 this past Christmas. I have been slowly going through that when I have the time and really like it! It is definitely helping me out! When I've completed Vol 1, you can bet I'll be buying Vol 2 from you.

Thanks again!
~Tony

Hey Todd,

My wife bought me your Walking Bass Lines Modules - Vol 1 this past Christmas. I have been slowly going through that when I have the time and really like it! It is definitely helping me out! When I've completed Vol 1, you can bet I'll be buying Vol 2 from you.

Thanks again!
~Tony

Thanks Tony!!!!

You're on your way. Take your time.......listen to the master players.....and don't hesitate to let me know how I can help!!

Keep up the good work!!