Well...

TB'ers, beware this story of pain and woe. And to all you veterans in "the know,":crying: Here is a story of a tour from hell, so sit back and rest a spell...


I was offered a tour 3 months ago, and due to two years of unbridled hell, I decided to take it. Let me give you a little background..

The artist is a good singer/songwriter/guitarist from Wales named "John." I received an e-mail one day saying, "I want you as my bassplayer." I said "Da*n, I love a direct approach!" The guy has good songs and a great voice, so we rehearsed with a drummer from Serbia and said "let's do it!"

Well....:bawl:

After selling the car, and all my gear, (I figured a year on the road would offset the expenses) John and I landed in Chicago on the 1st of November. We spent 2 weeks visiting an old "friend" ;) of his in Springfield IL., and I found myself sleeping on the couch while John "paid" for our room and board.:rolleyes: Now, we all know that a week is a visit, TWO weeks always causes problems. After she flipped out (He is married after all! Although she is hopin' for a change!) we bought a used suburban van with the prerequisite rust, and drove to the agents house in Rockford IL. ( She did call the Police on him, but I've been told she does that every time he visits!) There we received word that U.S. immigration have problems issuing the drummers visa. Well, 1,500 dollars later for "premium processing" and we're still waiting for the clear. unfortunately, we're not gigging because all drummers we've called in the area are either too busy or "part timers."
WEll...
yesterday the agent went belly up and decided he "doesn't have the time" to book gigs anymore. I reply "You're kidding? Couldn't you have told us BEFORE we left England you ****!" He says (insert drum roll..) "Sorry, not my problem but you can stay in our guest house until they turn the gas off.":help:
WEll..
John, was more rational than me, so he got the guys contacts. He's a middle man we learned and we're trying to salvage something outta nothing. We thought we had a gig tomorrow on Thanksgiving, but the guy decided to cancel. Although we had to call him to find out. My phone is dead, and John got Sprint to extend his line til the 29th. I've got a fiver in my pocket and it's looking grim my friends.:hiding:
Oh, by the way, we're staying at her business. A "message parlour", so there are no "regular" beds, and there's no showering or bath facilities, I'm washing my booty an inventing new positions at the same time! (James said "Too funky in here, gimme some air!) :help: I know Cheap Trick still live here, maybe I should call the Dream police and Surrender?

Well, This is the first installment of "The Tour From Hell.."

I'll be in touch..
Oh, hey fellow TB'ers..

Save me some Turkey, Ok?
A leg...
C'mon, a thigh?
Doh!!:bawl:

Holy hell man that sucks. If I were going to be home tomorrow I would invite you all over for leftovers and a pint, but I'll be gone. :( I hope you guys make it though alright. What kind of band is it that you're playing in? I've got a gig on Saturday that might use another band *wink wink*

Wow! Tough tour!

Hang in there. Adversity is supposed to make us better, or something like that...

Work those middleman contacts, and see if you can get something going...

Make sure to at least trash the guest house.

harsh as a very harsh thing.
get back to good ol blighty i say

Well at least it's a well planned tour...

Man, I thought that I had some stories of bad times on the road. That massage parlour bit is freaking priceless.

Well..

The massage parlour part is funny, but i'm having a great time sleeping with all of the "plastic skeletons" they have around the place. Try going to sleep with a full size skeleton, wearing a sombrero, with a cigar in it's mouth staring at you. (Somebody's sense of humour obviously..) I can't wait to post the pictures...

Well...

John ha s a friend that is "loaded" and he says "stick it out, work the leads you have." If anyone knows any gigs floating around, I'd be a fool not to reply!

harsh as a very harsh thing.
get back to good ol blighty i say

there's not that much work there, but I'm definitely wanting to get outta here!!!:help:

Does the message parlour give happy endings? :eyebrow:

Had they stranded you in Texas, we could've fed you last Thursday. Heck, we *still* feed you, we have so much leftovers!

You can have most of my gigs, too. We don't appear to be taking any, anytime soon. :scowl: They don't pay much, but they're gigs.

Man...any luck at all since last week?

Cherie

Well..

The massage parlour part is funny, but i'm having a great time sleeping with all of the "plastic skeletons" they have around the place. Try going to sleep with a full size skeleton, wearing a sombrero, with a cigar in it's mouth staring at you. (Somebody's sense of humour obviously..) I can't wait to post the pictures...

Well...

John ha s a friend that is "loaded" and he says "stick it out, work the leads you have." If anyone knows any gigs floating around, I'd be a fool not to reply!

So...in her massage parlour, it is always Dia de los Muertes? Oi.

Cherie

Does the message parlour give happy endings? :eyebrow:

If you saw what she looks like, you'd prefer to keep the tension..

Aw, shucks.. i almost caught the squirrel that was in the kitchen eating the nabisco crackers! Boy, these American squirrels are big...:hmm:

Had they stranded you in Texas, we could've fed you last Thursday. Heck, we *still* feed you, we have so much leftovers!

You can have most of my gigs, too. We don't appear to be taking any, anytime soon. :scowl: They don't pay much, but they're gigs.

Man...any luck at all since last week?

Cherie

Well....

John's friend was going to Western union us some money, but it's something like $20 for every $100 i've been told. We're going registered check.
I guess the positives are:

I've lost that middle age spread..
I'm an "involuntary vegetarian."
I'm back to practicing 12 hours a day (got up at 4:30 and started.) through the aebersold books and the Charlie Parker omnibook. I want to memorize a few more solos..

Mother is calling more, since I'm in the country..

Hmm, i feel like singing..

"The Bear necessities... Blah, blah, blah.., forget about your
problems beat your.."

If you saw what she looks like, you'd prefer to keep the tension..

Aw, shucks.. i almost caught the squirrel that was in the kitchen eating the nabisco crackers! Boy, these American squirrels are big...:hmm:

I was "Oh no" smiling through the whole thread...but this made me seriously laugh out loud. Like...set off the laughter tears...

Hope your stay this side of the pond gets better dude...

I've noticed a few things, after being gone almost 20 years..

American fat is different than european fat.. on average. I see fat people in England, but I see far more "obese" people here in Rockford.

There seems to be a "Meth" situation around here, and people are looking rough.

Hmm, in the papers the jam sessions say that entry is free. When you show up, they want money (I suspect nobody around the bar payed...)

I can't relate to most of the Americans I've met. i can't explain it, they seem so... insular here. John said that musicians that travel as much as I have become "world citizens." I feel... alien.

I asked my bass playing/ lawyer friend Syed to give me a copy of the Koran (Qu'ran) because i was tired of having people tell me what his religion was about. I've read through 1/3rd of it. I didn't know it mentions moses and jesus and a lot of other stuff. Hmm, I think i'll read the Gita next. there are a lot of Hindu people in England. I think that coltrane read it as well. My old teacher Raphael Garrett (Coltrane, monk, Sun Ra) told me some stuff about music and religion being as one. I'm hoping for some enlightenment!

My friend just bought 2 houses for $8000?!? They are nice! He did some work on them and hopes to sell them for $50,000. All you can buy in England for that kinda money is a closet. Boy the dollar ain't worth squat is it? I see a lot of foreclosures in this country, in the very near future..

Well....

John's friend was going to Western union us some money, but it's something like $20 for every $100 i've been told. We're going registered check.
I guess the positives are:

I've lost that middle age spread..
I'm an "involuntary vegetarian."
I'm back to practicing 12 hours a day (got up at 4:30 and started.) through the aebersold books and the Charlie Parker omnibook. I want to memorize a few more solos..

Mother is calling more, since I'm in the country..

Hmm, i feel like singing..

"The Bear necessities... Blah, blah, blah.., forget about your
problems beat your.."

Come to Texas. Its warmer, and there's plenty of food. But the squirrels are still pretty big, and sassy, too! LOL!

Nothing like being stuck somewhere to make you practice. When you do get a gig, you'll be danged good!

Cherie :bassist:

I've noticed a few things, after being gone almost 20 years..

American fat is different than european fat.. on average. I see fat people in England, but I see far more "obese" people here in Rockford.

There seems to be a "Meth" situation around here, and people are looking rough.

Hmm, in the papers the jam sessions say that entry is free. When you show up, they want money (I suspect nobody around the bar payed...)

I can't relate to most of the Americans I've met. i can't explain it, they seem so... insular here. John said that musicians that travel as much as I have become "world citizens." I feel... alien.

I asked my bass playing/ lawyer friend Syed to give me a copy of the Koran (Qu'ran) because i was tired of having people tell me what his religion was about. I've read through 1/3rd of it. I didn't know it mentions moses and jesus and a lot of other stuff. Hmm, I think i'll read the Gita next. there are a lot of Hindu people in England. I think that coltrane read it as well. My old teacher Raphael Garrett (Coltrane, monk, Sun Ra) told me some stuff about music and religion being as one. I'm hoping for some enlightenment!

My friend just bought 2 houses for $8000?!? They are nice! He did some work on them and hopes to sell them for $50,000. All you can buy in England for that kinda money is a closet. Boy the dollar ain't worth squat is it? I see a lot of foreclosures in this country, in the very near future..


I don't know where you are, but if you can buy a house for $8000 there, you are living in a slum, even if you can sell it for $50000 after you fix it up. I live in a very small two bedroom town house, and that is worth $150,000 in my area. If I lived in California, the same house would cost probably $300,000. You are looking about .00001% of the entire USA, yet you judge the entire 100%. I'll go over to England, stay in one random spot, and judge the whole country on it.

Hmm, in a one to two block radius, here in Rockford, there are at least 10 churches..Big ones too..

But, why are there soo many homeless people (not all are "mentis compis" I might add) walking around?

OK, I've been informed there's a salvation army and some kinda food line close by that "one" of the churches puts on...

At least in England, you can get free health care...

John said " It seems that it's hard over here. When you're down in America, you're really down. These people just look like they've had a hard time. And to that i can relate..
(John is Welsh)
Now, how many Americans said "Where is Wales?

I don't know where you are, but if you can buy a house for $8000 there, you are living in a slum, even if you can sell it for $50000. You are looking about .00001% of the entire USA, yet you judge the entire 100%. I'll go over to England, stay in one random spot, and judge the whole country on it.

I wouldn't call Danville Illinois a slum.. It looks like most place here in Illinois do to me. A ghost town that's seen better days. I was in Chicago 1 1/2 years ago and drove from LA to Philly through the Grand Canyon, Virginia etc. You know I40/Route 66 and I grew up in Ga. And Philly..

Everywhere in IL., besides Chicago IMO, is suffering it seems. As i continue writing this, I've noticed lots of things from listening to people. The gripes about "mexicans" and other silly things. I've personally been called a few derogatory things just walking around. It's different, that's my opinion. I used to sell Real Estate and had my license. My friend has a house in San Diego they bought ten years ago for $800,000 dollars. A recent appraisal due to the fires and the general economy had it valued at half that amount.

I have noticed the divide between the Rich and the poor is expanding. I personally believe that is more than your percentages will add up to. Stop looking around your environs and at least consider another viewpoint. ;) I liken it to a Bill Hicks sketch about looking out his door and hearing crickets thinking, "Ted turner must make this **** up.":p

Oh, by the wat in the last 2 years i've spent a week minimum in:

South Korea
Spain
Morrocco
Germany
Scotland Wales
Philly
Ireland
New York
Norway
LA
Chicago
ETC.

I'm definitely not a tourist. It's part of the job.. If you play, you understand..

Hmm, in a one to two block radius, here in Rockford, there are at least 10 churches..Big ones too..

But, why are there soo many homeless people (not all are "mentis compis" I might add) walking around?

OK, I've been informed there's a salvation army and some kinda food line close by that "one" of the churches puts on...

At least in England, you can get free health care...

John said " It seems that it's hard over here. When you're down in America, you're really down. These people just look like they've had a hard time. And to that i can relate..
(John is Welsh)
Now, how many Americans said "Where is Wales?

I know where Wales is! Its in Southwestern England.

Yeah, when you're down, here, you are really down.

Sounds like you are staying in a pretty rough area, too. Our area is very working poor/blue collar, butting right up to wealthy areas. Its pretty here, though...a big consolation. And, while you can't always pay the bills, you can always eat. The local church, the local ice house, and the local biergarten are always having free suppers.

Cherie

I wouldn't call Danville Illinois a slum.. It looks like most place here in Illinois do to me. A ghost town that's seen better days. I was in Chicago 1 1/2 years ago and drove from LA to Philly through the Grand Canyon, Virginia etc. You know I40/Route 66 and I grew up in Ga. And Philly..

Everywhere besides chicago IMO, is suffering and all you need to do is get out more. As i continue writing this, I've noticed lots of things from listening to people. The gripes about "mexicans" and other silly things.

I have noticed the divide between the Rich and the poor is expanding. I personally believe that is more than your percentages will add up to. Stop looking around your environs and at least consider another viewpoint. ;) I liken it to a Bill hicks sketch about looking out his door and hearing crickets thinkiking, "Ted turner must make it up.":p

I'm sorry, but an $8000 house is a slum. You'd be lucky to buy a tool shed for that kind of money in the Northeast. You're talking about middle America. Each section of the US is like a whole different country. Nothing can be generalized about a country as large as the USA, no matter how many people try to do so.

I know where Wales is! Its in Southwestern England.
Haha nice try at least!

Hope your luck turns soon - otherwise I'd get back on the plane pretty quick!

Haha nice try at least!

Hope your luck turns soon - otherwise I'd get back on the plane pretty quick!

Well, I tried. So...wrong end of the country? North, or east?

Cherie

I'm afraid of flying!!!

I'm sorry, but an $8000 house is a slum. You'd be lucky to buy a tool shed for that kind of money in the Northeast. You're talking about middle America. Each section of the US is like a whole different country. Nothing can be generalized about a country as large as the USA, no matter how many people try to do so.


About Illinois, you're right.. I can't wait to see how this all turns out. I am generalizing.. They're my experiences. I can only generalize soo much.;)

It's a NICE house..

Now, how much did he spend fixing it up? i don't know, but I'd rather do that and not have a mortgage...

I'm afraid of flying!!!

I don't like to fly, either. Makes me ill, every time.

Cherie :bassist:

Well, I tried. So...wrong end of the country? North, or east?

Cherie

http://www.amc-comm.demon.co.uk/images/UK_Map.gif

$8000 for *two* houses ... free and clear? BS.

"My friend just bought 2 houses for $8000?!? They are nice! He did some work on them and hopes to sell them for $50,000."

Maybe he put $8000 *down*. Big diff.

As for turning a profit in the current market via the old buy-distressed-make-improvements-and-resell get-rich-quick-real-estate-infomercial-scheme, good luck.

Good luck with this situation you're in as well.

http://www.amc-comm.demon.co.uk/images/UK_Map.gif

Slightly OT, but I'm from that little blue bit in the middle originally. The Isle of Man.

Had to mention it, you wouldn't believe the amount of times we get left off maps like that depicting the UK.

http://www.amc-comm.demon.co.uk/images/UK_Map.gif

Well then...I wasn't *too* far off. Its the southwestern portion of the island, but not the *most* southwestern. That'd be Cornwall, right?

Cherie :)

You're from the island of man...
man that's gotta get alot of laughs, if anybody seen the fast show:p
if not, then, say hello to a good joke gone to waste...

Slightly OT, but I'm from that little blue bit in the middle originally. The Isle of Man.

Had to mention it, you wouldn't believe the amount of times we get left off maps like that depicting the UK.

The Isle of Man. That's one of those places people don't know very much about, that looks ruggedly beautiful in pictures, and that I'd like to visit before I get so old that need a walker or a wheelchair. From pictures, it makes me think I'd love to go hiking and see all the sights.

Cherie :)

Well, they can't have it worse than us finns. Everytime I join a forum there's a 50% chance of some american (and don't take it personal, cause it ain't) asks me if we've got polarbears wandering around on the streets. A third of the time I tell them, sorry mate, not that far up north, but we do get some ordinary bears walking around here and there from time to time. An other third of the time I tell them, sure mate, we get them all the time, you have to look both ways before going out to your car in the mornings. The last third I tell them, don't be such a silly, we're at the wrong pole for polarbears, all we get are stupid penguins. Now guess which one's true? :D

I can see the Isle of Man from the local beach on a sunny day!

You're from the island of man...
man that's gotta get alot of laughs, if anybody seen the fast show:p
if not, then, say hello to a good joke gone to waste...

[thread derailment]

Hehe Island of Man. Its the Isle of Man. And yes it does get laughs. But only from people who've seen the Fast Show.

Cherie, there are a lot of beautiful walks on the Island. Best time of year to go is TT Festival (the motorcycle racing). Combine those walks with some serious drinking. Great fun.

[/thread derailment] ;)

Well, they can't have it worse than us finns. Everytime I join a forum there's a 50% chance of some american (and don't take it personal, cause it ain't) asks me if we've got polarbears wandering around on the streets. A third of the time I tell them, sorry mate, not that far up north, but we do get some ordinary bears walking around here and there from time to time. An other third of the time I tell them, sure mate, we get them all the time, you have to look both ways before going out to your car in the mornings. The last third I tell them, don't be such a silly, we're at the wrong pole for polarbears, all we get are stupid penguins. Now guess which one's true? :D

LOL! I guess those polar bears and penguins in the streets are as common as tumbleweeds and riding your horse to work. Sometimes we even take the mule team out. When we ain't a-bustin' broncs. Don't y'all ride reindeer around everywhere? :ninja: ;) :hiding: :D

Cherie ;):D

Hey all!

Sorry to hear about your string of canceled gigs & bad luck. Also sorry to hear about your encounters with the closed minded. We aren't all like that, and in fact, if you were near or in a big city, you probably wouldnt encounter that quite as much.

Good to hear you lived in Philly for a while - it is the finest city around. If you make it here, shoot me a PM, and I'll buy you a beer.

So, with all those churches around, did anyone offer to feed or house you (as charity or in exchange for work?)

Hope everything looks up for ya - and remember, we're all not like the asshats you describe.

ian

$8000 for *two* houses ... free and clear? BS.

"My friend just bought 2 houses for $8000?!? They are nice! He did some work on them and hopes to sell them for $50,000."

Maybe he put $8000 *down*. Big diff.

As for turning a profit in the current market via the old buy-distressed-make-improvements-and-resell get-rich-quick-real-estate-infomercial-scheme, good luck.

Good luck with this situation you're in as well.
My Brother in law bought one for $3000. It all depends on the shape its in and how much work you're willing to do. This one was gutted by fire.... lol lots of work. But there are plenty of abandoned houses that are falling apart that can be picked up for next to nothing in the ghetto.

Randy

hey if your still lookin for gigs lemme know, danvilles a ways from here, but i know some people, just need to know what kinda music.

I'm sorry, but an $8000 house is a slum. You'd be lucky to buy a tool shed for that kind of money in the Northeast. You're talking about middle America. Each section of the US is like a whole different country. Nothing can be generalized about a country as large as the USA, no matter how many people try to do so.

In Illinois, the economic situation works in direct relation to your distance from Chicago/St. Louis. Springfield is a bit of a beacon in the darkness thanks to being the capitol, but cities like Rockford and Peoria are pits of despair. Trust me, I've spent significant time in each (I grew up very close to Rockford). Bear in mind these are likely *small* houses in fair shape on an 1/8th acre lot which run 50-80 years old and are well within city limits. There was a bit of a housing boom in the 50's in most of these cities thanks to the migrations after the war, with the end result being that most people have moved out of the cities and into the 'burbs (or to somewhere else).

Good luck on the "tour", man.

My Brother in law bought one for $3000. It all depends on the shape its in and how much work you're willing to do. This one was gutted by fire.... lol lots of work. But there are plenty of abandoned houses that are falling apart that can be picked up for next to nothing in the ghetto.

Randy

Thanks... I knew somebody would believe it! It's definitely true!!

hey if your still lookin for gigs lemme know, danvilles a ways from here, but i know some people, just need to know what kinda music.

Well, We're stuck in Rockford right now..

I'll take the time to thank you guys/gals.. I'm trying to keep the spirits up.:)

Jauqo and me have been talking on the phone. And another TB'er is taking me to a jam tonight.

We are getting a sub. for the drum chair and we may have some positive stuff going on..

:help:

Slightly OT, but I'm from that little blue bit in the middle originally. The Isle of Man.

Had to mention it, you wouldn't believe the amount of times we get left off maps like that depicting the UK.

Hmm, Corinne Bailey Rae's manager lives on the Isle of man now.
I spoke with him a week ago, he was in LA.

They're building a studio..;)

In Illinois, the economic situation works in direct relation to your distance from Chicago/St. Louis. Springfield is a bit of a beacon in the darkness thanks to being the capitol, but cities like Rockford and Peoria are pits of despair. Trust me, I've spent significant time in each (I grew up very close to Rockford). Bear in mind these are likely *small* houses in fair shape on an 1/8th acre lot which run 50-80 years old and are well within city limits. There was a bit of a housing boom in the 50's in most of these cities thanks to the migrations after the war, with the end result being that most people have moved out of the cities and into the 'burbs (or to somewhere else).

Good luck on the "tour", man.


Springfield was dead IMO, but nowhere close to how bad I'm finding Rockford! I plan on lookiing around more this week..

Once again, i can't speak for anyone but myself, so i don't want to offend anyone. This is my opinion... From a guy who's been away for awhile..

:bassist:

Auditioned a drummer...

Why is it sooo hard to find a drummer that doesn't have bad time?

Saw a killing guitar player named "preacher" last night. Alledgedly, used to play with Ike and Tina Turner. He played so tastefully, I enjoyed "just" playing bass. It was a pleasure...

Now, if I can just get some work!!!

Springfield was dead IMO, but nowhere close to how bad I'm finding Rockford! I plan on lookiing around more this week..

Once again, i can't speak for anyone but myself, so i don't want to offend anyone. This is my opinion... From a guy who's been away for awhile..

:bassist:

No, you're right on. The East/Southeast part of town is pretty normal but it gets gradually worse as you move West through the city.

If I still lived up there, I'd find you some work, man. Hang in there...

No, you're right on. The East/Southeast part of town is pretty normal but it gets gradually worse as you move West through the city.

If I still lived up there, I'd find you some work, man. Hang in there...

Thanks bro, My good friend Pete Brown sent me some bread to keep the wolf away. I told him if things get any worse, instead of chewing off a nail, I'd chew off a finger by mistake!!:smug:

Boy, there are a LOT of churches around here..:hmm:

Churches and funeral homes..:help: I wonder if it's a sign?:help:

Darn, just paid 46 dollars to send more paper off for the drummer. :bawl:


"I ain't drunk.. I'm just drinking.."

what's wrong with a "Tour from Hell" anyway? Anywhere you go on the tour coming from Hell is going to be better than where you started, in Hell.

Randy

I talked to a friend of mine who used to be part of the Rockford music scene (which is, I think, Cheap Trick and like 6 other people) and he didn't know any good drummers left up there (he's in Texas now). He also said that all of the places they used to play are now gone, so he didn't have any leads. Sorry, man.

what's wrong with a "Tour from Hell" anyway? Anywhere you go on the tour coming from Hell is going to be better than where you started, in Hell.

Randy

I wouldn't mind being on the "Highway to hell," It's sitting around in the same place in hell that's difficult..;)

I talked to a friend of mine who used to be part of the Rockford music scene (which is, I think, Cheap Trick and like 6 other people) and he didn't know any good drummers left up there (he's in Texas now). He also said that all of the places they used to play are now gone, so he didn't have any leads. Sorry, man.

Bless you bro, I certainly appreciate the fact you made an effort and asked someone.. Thanks :)

Well....

Last night the agent invited us to play at a jam session in Wisconsin that he was doing the sound for. I think he wanted to parade around the "English band" that he happened to have brought over. So we went..

And... (Get ready for it, it's a good one..)

We went and there were 10 people in the club maybe, we were introduced to a stringy haired dude that was the "house bassist." He said "his drummer" was good. I said in humility, "Well, I'd like to see for myself." As the night progressed, we waited at the bar for 3 to 4 hours and the house band consisted of a little bald guy on guitar (the owner), a tall chick with no butt singing badly (the wife), and the 16-18 YO drummer (the son we learned..).
They all were wearing cheap Kiss makeup, and he was literally spitting beer all over the stage and crawling around on it like a dog. Pretending to vomit beer.
I found the whole thing amateurish, obscene, and likened it to bad cabaret. They were clearly acting out their fantasies. Then I learned they owned the bar... Obviously..

Well, we talked to the barmaid, (she had a killing body.. a 38 YO grandmother?!) and John was jovial and drunk as a skunk. Unfortunately, he said something to the owner when he finally asked if we wanted to play. I told John "You're the leader. I prefer to leave..". I walked on the stage, looked around and The owner walked up on stage and said "I'm your drummer, since you insulted my son." I "replied "what the **** are you talking about?" ( I later learned that the owner had learned from the agent we needed a drummer, so he was talking to john like the kid "had" the gig already. John alledgedly said something that they took offense at. I.E. "This is the John **** band, what are you, his manager or something? " He also told me he said "they were ****, and it was the worst thing he'd ever seen." The story continues here.. ) John walked up and I finally said I wasn't playing a note, and walked off the stage. After a few moments i look up and see John push the owner. The guy walked around and said "He pushed me.. You're oughtta here!" I said "fine," as we walked towards the end of the bar and spoke to the bouncer. I let him talk, then he left and me and the bouncer were speaking civilly and reasonably. I turned around to see John push the guy again. The owner then proceeded to hit John in the chest, and down he went, backwards, slamming into the floor and cracking his head on the bar foot rest.

I moved towards the scene and was blocked by 2 guys. The bouncer sided with me in cooling things out, and we kept them separated, The "Agent" magically appeared, and said he was staying to do sound. Initially he said the place was 10 miles away, when it was 40 miles away, and in Wisconsin! He told me how to get back and we left.

I drove until 2 am listening to John rant in a drunken stupour, paid 20 bucks in gas, bought him a Mcdonalds, and finally found my way to the message parlour/idiot hotel. At 7:30 this morning the agent calls John and asks if he was okay.

What a night.. Studio work was safer and easier.

Am I having fun yet? My return ticket is booked for March...

The story continues..

On the way out the barmaid gave us her mobile phone number. She manages a strip club.

Hmm..

The story continues..


Help.

Da*n!!!
I was just reading thru 3 pages and i haven't been this fascinated since "On The Road" by Jack Kerouac.

It's a pity to have a tour from hell, but think of all the stories and memories it leaves you with.

On the way out the barmaid gave us her mobile phone number. She manages a strip club.

Hmm..

The story continues..

You know the rules, man. No pics, no barmaid, no strip club.;)

Best of luck with this whole mess BTW.

this story keeps getting better and better. i can not wait until the next installment!

Da*n!!!
I was just reading thru 3 pages and i haven't been this fascinated since "On The Road" by Jack Kerouac.

It's a pity to have a tour from hell, but think of all the stories and memories it leaves you with.

I don't mind memories.. It's the fear of being left with bullet or knife holes!:help: This place is rough.:hiding:

I'm just sitting in the library rockford, and for the second time this week a policeman walks behind everyone and looks over my shoulder. Someone told me that the reason they always ask for my ID is the "patriot act."


What the heck is that all about? It smells like paranoia to me. I couldn't get on a train in Chicago without ID.:hmm: Terrorists? What if it was a fake ID? Most of these people have never seen a british drivers license before..:hmm: How are they gonna know it's fake or real? I swear I've never seen so many police before, like they have here. I like police, but a paranoid policeman with a gun worries me a little. Remember the guy in London shot 11 times in the head from Brazil/ What did he do? NOTHING.. He's still dead.. that kind of fear causes people to make fatal errors. I hate to be involved while out minding my own business.. I'm having a hard time..

But I'm alive, dig?:hiding:

Well, enough ranting, time to find a salad bar..

Oh, by the way, I ain't making this up!! Thanks for reading, it gives my day porpoise..;)

You know the rules, man. No pics, no barmaid, no strip club.;)

Best of luck with this whole mess BTW.

I know..:crying:

Man, she was fit!!!!:eek:

I won't post any pics, ;) boy, she was a stunner.. The best looking woman I've seen since I've been here..

And she definitely, wasn't made of anything plastic..:p

I'm sorry to say the invitation is for Sunday. so by day, i'll pray..

But at night, thangs sho' nuff gots to be right!!!:ninja:

thanks for the encouragement. I'll let you know if it gets better. i'm keeping my sense of humour..

this story keeps getting better and better. i can not wait until the next installment!

I'm not sure if I can wait.. Hmm, dude next to me is asleep in the library. Snoring, droolin', and smellin...

He looks happy though..:rolleyes:

Hell, I got to find a shower somewhere...:rollno:

"Give me some air, tooooooo funky in here."

Okay everyone, you now know where Wales is... The drummer is from Serbia.. Where's that located?

Immigration don't like Serbia in America it seems!!!

I don't mind memories.. It's the fear of being left with bullet or knife holes!:help: This place is rough.:hiding:

I'm just sitting in the library rockford, and for the second time this week a policeman walks behind everyone and looks over my shoulder. Someone told me that the reason they always ask for my ID is the "patriot act."


What the heck is that all about? It smells like paranoia to me. I couldn't get on a train in Chicago without ID.:hmm: Terrorists? What if it was a fake ID? Most of these people have never seen a british drivers license before..:hmm: How are they gonna know it's fake or real? I swear I've never seen so many police before, like they have here. I like police, but a paranoid policeman with a gun worries me a little. Remember the guy in London shot 11 times in the head from Brazil/ What did he do? NOTHING.. He's still dead.. that kind of fear causes people to make fatal errors. I hate to be involved while out minding my own business.. I'm having a hard time..

But I'm alive, dig?:hiding:

Well, enough ranting, time to find a salad bar..

Oh, by the way, I ain't making this up!! Thanks for reading, it gives my day porpoise..;)

Oh God, don't get me started on the gorram Patriot Act. Bastages. I'll end up on a stump, preachin', and then things'll get political, and we can't have that. Gotten so you can't go in a library and just read without someone putting their nose in your business. Soon they'll be stopping us and asking for our papers in the street. :scowl:

Honey, you are in a bad, rough, ugly place. Honestly, if you can get up some scratch and catch a bus to Texas, you'll find work. It doesn't pay much, but you'll work! Get out of that ugly place...goodness!!!

Or Colorado...playing for the ski bunnies.

Dang...You keep safe!

Cherie

Ouch , a lot of bad luck there mate . Hope things improve for you .

Wow! I know Rockford, my ex lives an hour west. Imagine needing to drive that far *to* Rockford, on purpose, for shopping etc. because it's the only city around. Yes it's a pit of despair, surrounded by miles and miles and miles of corn and soybeans.

The only bands I remember seeing there are local guys playing bars for under $100/guy. No original scene except maybe some kids.

The KISS Family sounds awesome! I know it's tough when you're hungry but just try and enjoy the ride. Take some pictures!!! That scene is priceless, it can be a key moment in the road screenplay you write about this tour. When add in scary masseuses and strippers you've already got better material than most people, think how cool it can get if you mix in some fiction!!!

Wow, man sounds like things are pretty ****ed up. Hope things get better eh?

Hey dude,

I was in similar situaton a few years back when i travelled half way across the world with a girl and we ended up breaking up in Lisbon. Problem was, when we broke up she took my money and threw my wallet and my phone into the river. All I had left was my passport and papers. I ended up sleeping on the streets for a week until I met a gorgous English girl who was on a working/Holiday there. She let me bunk with her. She also payed for me to apply for a work visa so I could get some money to either get home or go back to London with her.

We ended up staying in Lisbon for 6 months together and i worked in a soccer store while she worked at her firm. I earned enough money to get back to Australia but chose to go back to London with her. When we arrived in London her Ex started hanging around heaps and It made me feel eally uneasy about the whole thing. I decided to leave london and come home 2 weeks later.

Too this very day I still recieve 2 to 3 calls a week from her, as well as countless facebook and myspace messages saying that she was sorry about what happened bla bla bla.

So yeah, things work out, but can then screw you over straight away. You have to be strong enough to know when to walk away, especially when your chips are down. I guess what Im trying to say is, hang in there. Brightness is aound the corner

gorram

?
Firefly much?:hyper:

So yeah, things work out, but can then screw you over straight away. You have to be strong enough to know when to walk away, especially when your chips are down. I guess what Im trying to say is, hang in there. Brightness is aound the corner

Thanks, It ain't easy.. I had a girl invite me to live in Bondi beach. I would've, but she had more hair on her body than me.. And i draw the line at hairy nipples that aren't my own..

(If i said something offensive mods, just change it...Thanks.;))

Wow! I know Rockford, Yes it's a pit of despair, surrounded by miles and miles and miles of corn and soybeans.

The only bands I remember seeing there are local guys playing bars for under $100/guy. No original scene except maybe some kids.

The KISS Family sounds awesome! I know it's tough when you're hungry but just try and enjoy the ride. Take some pictures!!! That scene is priceless, it can be a key moment in the road screenplay you write about this tour. When add in scary masseuses and strippers you've already got better material than most people, think how cool it can get if you mix in some fiction!!!

Yep, it's a dry scene musically..

$100? Shucks, i doubt if even that's the case..:crying:


Oh it is definitely worthy of a story. You can't imagine what I'm leaving out.;) There's an ongoing fight between me and the squirrel. He was in the kitchen again.. i'm gonna catch him eventually...

Hmm... I better think about rabies... There's no rabies in England. Then again I only saw one cockroach in thirteen years also.:D

It's snowing in Rockford.. It makes things look better..:hiding:

Ouch , a lot of bad luck there mate . Hope things improve for you .

Thanks, you guys are definitely giving my life a direction.. anything other than down is cool wit' me!!:p

I swear I'm gonna get that squirrel... i hope he doesn't carry a blade. Do squirrels actually like bread? Or is he trying to open the stale bottle of planters peanuts? He couldn't possibly smell that could he?

Well, at least he doesn't have a thumb..:hmm:

Well...

Today, I drove through the snow and we had lunch. There were 5 american women talking about immigration, mexicans, phillipinos and.... england?!

I had to listen in..

Hmm.. In america, I noticed that a lot of women will end every sentence with the word "like."

For example..

"He was.. like, telling me what he thought of her, and I was like, getting tired of it. And then, like, he like told me about her mom being illegal, cause she, like didn't tell immigration, like, about her kid like..."

Imagine 5 women using this, "like" vocabulary. I was like, stunned like..

Boy, america is definitely heated up over this immigration issue.

The girl then said that her friends were in England and she spent $100 dollars in a week, and that the ratio of pound to dollar was... (get ready...)

"like, twenty to one.."

Oh well,...

We had a drummer coming by at 1pm, he called at 10:30, and said he was on his way.

At around 12, he called and said he couldn't make it today because "his wife took the larger car and he couldn't get his bass drum in the one she left."

Yeah, right...

uh, oh... One of the agents (not the one responsible for this mess, we haven't seen him in 2 days..) said "we have the 10th and the 11th in Nebraska for you."

Thank God!

Let's hope it doesn't get cancelled. Call me paranoid, but...

I am.

Hmm, just spoke to Jauqo, gave me the name of a drummer. I'll call him later..

Oh yes, I want to state some important information about "The agent" responsible for "The tour from Hell."

He legally changed his name to something Egyptian. Osiris? I was trying to make conversation and said "Is that really your name?" He is a scrawny little 5'2" white guy from New York..

He said "No, I changed it."

I said "Really, what from?"

Get ready for it....

"My name was originally FRED.."

"Oh... Ok.. Really? Fred?"

"Yeah, FRED."

D***, I should have known...

That explains it all, don't it?

Hmm,

I just learned they're into something called "Wicker" and there are tapes upstairs of how to be a witch. You can subscribe to this dark haired chicks name on the box.

What the heck is going on here? I can see why/how Mid west postal workers/kids used to go mad here. What is there to do?

OOPS, sorry folks.. just having a tantrum.. I repeat, no offense intended. it's just my opinion... And you know what they say about opinions don't you? Ha!

I'll have more fun info after tomorrow's, audition and the strip club.. I promised Jauqo I'd send him a picture to prove I'm not making it up!!! (About the girl being "fit." that is!!)

I'm about to walk through the snow, bye folks.. or as they say in England..

"Cheers"

P.S. The wonderful people giving me encouragement, like Txbasschk...

Bless you, thanks....

See you on monday.

I hope...

Squirrels are edible!

Hey dude, one thing you should try when your chips are down is to get arrested. You get a free meal in Jail.

It all sounds like crap to me. If you think America is so bad, stick your happy ass on a plane and head back to England.

"It all sounds like crap to me. If you think America is so bad, stick your happy ass on a plane and head back to England"



Man...talk about overreacting?? The guy has said nothing bad about the U.S. and only nice things about everyone here who has encouraged him. He is plum in the middle of Red Neck Anytown and observing life in small town America...how do you think you would feel if you lived in New York City and all of a sudden found yourself in the middle of a cow field in Scotland or Wales?? Lost that's how.

It all sounds like crap to me. If you think America is so bad, stick your happy ass on a plane and head back to England.

It's nice to know I haven't been dissapointed. ;)

"It all sounds like crap to me. If you think America is so bad, stick your happy ass on a plane and head back to England"



Man...talk about overreacting?? The guy has said nothing bad about the U.S. and only nice things about everyone here who has encouraged him. He is plum in the middle of Red Neck Anytown and observing life in small town America...how do you think you would feel if you lived in New York City and all of a sudden found yourself in the middle of a cow field in Scotland or Wales?? Lost that's how.

Well, you're obviously human. :)

"no good deed goes unpunished..":hiding:

Squirrels are edible!

I knew that! We've been discussing it more than we should..

Hmm, guy next to me is talking to himself..:confused:

The conversation is heavy..


I expected someone would say something nasty eventually. I understand human nature too well.

Don't feel like going out tonight.. Too depressed..

"...how do you think you would feel if you lived in New York City and all of a sudden found yourself in the middle of a cow field in Scotland or Wales?? Lost that's how.

Good point. That being said... I would love to visit England.

Hmm,

I just learned they're into something called "Wicker" and there are tapes upstairs of how to be a witch. You can subscribe to this dark haired chicks name on the box.

Uh oh, from experience I can tell you that things are about to get either much better or much worse.

DrayMiles...it would actually be called "Wicca" or "Wiccan" which is a form of organized religion focusing on spiritual/witch type stuff. That is probably the best way I can describe it...nothing really written in stone like the Torah, Bible, Quran, etc...but those who practice it work on things like spells and "oneness with nature".

It all sounds like crap to me. If you think America is so bad, stick your happy ass on a plane and head back to England.

:spit:

:eyebrow:

:scowl:

Cherie

You know, if you've got a good eye, and that squirrel looks healthy, you might can get his fuzzy butt with a bb gun. Stew!

My aunt is Cajun. She can and will cook almost anything. When my uncle was alive, and hunting, they ate all manner of things. Including squirrel. Unca JD used to love squirrel gumbo.

Nebraska, huh? Did the drummer ever turn up with a large-enough car? Oi. :rollno:

It sounds like you are stuck in some kind of Midwestern underbelly parallel universe. Praying y'all are out of there soonest!!!

Cherie

Well...

John and I got up yesterday morning and the cracks are starting to show. We almost got into a fight and I thought it was best if I went upstairs.

Stayed there until we learned that the drummer we thought was coming at 1:30 cancelled again. He's having marital problems (Welcome to our nightmare, at least he's still got a wife!) and can't make it again.
John is starting to be curt with every drummer that calls. They ask about the money first and are kinda slow on the responses he says. I think he's frustrated.. He spoke about chucking it all in and going back to Blighty. that's easy for him, unfortunately, I don't have anything to go back to. I'm emotionally beat now. The tour was supposed to cover things and it feels like we're flogging a dead horse. I'm thinking stupid thoughts and considering selling my basses. I think by the end of the week, I'll concede defeat.
i've played on record or live with jeff Beck, Bo Diddley, Jack Bruce, Peter Green, Boyz 11 Men, Mick Taylor, MN8, Henry McCullough, Chuck Berry, John Mayall, Gary Brooker, Gary Moore and a bunch of other faceless wonders, and I can't get arrested.
I've been informed I owe $40,000 bucks in the U.S. and I owe $3,000 bucks in blighty. The negatives certainly out weigh the positives. Lifes a crap shoot and I've crapped out.

Oh, and if anyone doesn't believe the aforementioned list. There are people on TB that really know who i am. So don't doubt it , you'll definitely be contradicted.

And....

We went out last night to the strip bar. John said he wanted to do "something," so we went...

I hated it.

It was boring and I couldn't even look at the stage without being embarrassed. We left after an hour. I kept thinking, "I really don't want to be here, I know who's on my mind.. and she ain't around here." Guys, if you've got one woman you love... Don't screw up. Take it from me... i'm adding up all of my regrets, and it ain't looking good.

We drove back and today is the beginning of the end of this saga. I'm 41 and tired of fighting the same old demons. when I was working for record companies, I always preferred dealing with business people, because it was easier. They were always about the dollar/pound/euro. Ego wasn't really part of the equation. The musicians seemed to be carrying all kinds of emotional weight and baggage.. (Although i understand why) and were their biggest enemies. I was able to look "in" objectively at them back then, now I started this forum hoping to get "objectivity" about my own situation. I am sad to say, It doesn't seem to work that way. if you do this for the music, then you have something to sustain you when the chips are down, but if you get caught in the "music pays my bills" synopsis, then if you aren't careful, you turn around and resent the thing that you used to love back when you were 11 or so. This metamorphosis is very subtle and slow. I know people that won't hire a muso if he has a day job, because of their way of thinking, coupled with the expectation of them being under developed, more than likely. I was always aware of that possibility, but I also admired the "semi professional" because they still had a love for the music, regardless of pay. it only became an unfortunate dicotomy, when the industry concluded it was a better idea economically to have anyone, regardless of skill, filling the seats at venues or signing contracts at a higher premium for the contractor.

John described the biz like this..

"Imagine a pool of **** and scum, and at one end is a guy holding a record contract. At the other end are musicians. Most jump in and wade through the muck.. Some fall back in, or are pulled back in by their fellow artists.
A couple refuse to jump in.. (That's another story IMO)

Finally, one guy/gal makes it through the crap. He actually decides to read the contract, despite the fact that he took years to get to it. He realizes that the contract is empty and weighed against his better interests. He protests, only for the guy holding the contract to laugh and push him back into the muck. As he falls, another guy reaches up out of the crap and signs it.... Regardless.

I'm sure I've heard this somewhere before. I'm not even sure if it's applicable, but it's what I'm feeling...

Okay, i learned something last night..
Apparently there is some kind of "stop and search" order in affect in Rockford. There is alledgedly a lot of drug activity amongst other things going on, so the police will search you even if you look suspicious...

that explains a little of it...

then again I heard this from a topless dancer, although i don't dispute her credibility. I've seen evidence in allignment with her statement.

DrayMiles...it would actually be called "Wicca" or "Wiccan" which is a form of organized religion focusing on spiritual/witch type stuff. That is probably the best way I can describe it...nothing really written in stone like the Torah, Bible, Quran, etc...but those who practice it work on things like spells and "oneness with nature".

Hmmm, they've even got their own magazine I see. there are hundreds of copies of it upstairs.

I suspect they're around $100,000 in debt. The water bill/trash collection bill was due on the 1st. I know the gas bill is due. it seems she doesn't care what's lying around.

I suspect our time is running out..

Oops, there goes another cop walking around..:hiding:

I love the way they keep looking at me.:D
"If you want my body and ya think I'm sexy..";)

I keep getting invited to jams in Chicago. I don't know why.. They must think I have an extra $100 bucks to spend on a room. I think I'm gonna break my mom's heart. She hasn't seen me in 12 years, and it looks like I'm going to do it again.. The funds just aren't there..

I told her to do her "prayer thang", since I keep gettin' it wrong. John said he doesn't believe that stuff..

I'm not that far gone yet...:bawl: But I'm crossing my fingers..

Someone earlier said "jail has 3 meals a day", Unfortunately I'm too poor to get a good grade of justice like 3 meals. And I suspect while being a black 6'3" male I'd get shot or beat up first, just cause I look dangerous.. (Although every cop I've ever met was polite..)

Uh oh, from experience I can tell you that things are about to get either much better or much worse.

Uh Oh, Things just got worse.. Got to talk to the police for a.

Praying for you...

Cherie

John described the biz like this..

"Imagine a pool of **** and scum, and at one end is a guy holding a record contract. At the other end are musicians. Most jump in and wade through the muck..

I'm sure I've heard this somewhere before. I'm not even sure if it's applicable, but it's what I'm feeling...

That's Albini's bit from "The Problem with Music." You did read this before your tour, as required by statute, no?

If not, be forewarned that it's not going to make you feel much better, but you owe yourself a look: http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

Then, look Steve Albini up at Electrical Audio in Chicago and buy him a drink. It'll beat the snot outta moping around Rockford.

Are you alive?

Are you alive?

You have very efficient police in Rockford.. I guess they've seen me too much... "walking around town.":hmm:

Well....(It doesn't get any better, does it?)

The woman in Springfield was helping John do the drummer's visa. John's bank account is (ahem), dodgy, so he told the drummer to give her the money for his visa. He sold his drums etc. and gave her about $2000.

Well..

John wouldn't speak to her after we left Springfield, so she's been trying to contact him like mad. (I'm sure she's got a mental illness.. Absolutely positive..) So, she decided to take $300 of the drummer's visa money, saying that "we" owe her since we stayed for a week there. Yesterday, she sent him a myspace message and told the drummer "nothing's been done" and that we "behaved badly." "She was sorry for him, he seemed like a nice guy, and it's a shame he's going to get hurt by this." Obviously, The drummer forwarded her letter to us and then proceeded to call me and john. he said "he didn't need this. Why is he sleeping on someone's floor" and "he didn't need this ****", and " He didn't know if I was involved in the plot and lies." He said he didn't want to come now, since there's no trust now, and that "he really wanted to tour with me, but John is untrustworthy."
I'm sure she's forcing john to speak to her, since yesterday, he called her, and she proceeded to put the money back into the account. And she said "none of it would've happened if i hadn't been there with them in springfield. It would've been better if it was only her, her 2 kids and john, alone..." (Well, i won't mention cooking dinner for them, or speaking to her landlord, who's has since evicted her. I asked him to consider changing his mind, since when he served her papers, she didn't even bother getting out of bed...) I honestly kept my mouth shut and stayed in the living room until the day her 10 year old daughter called me a "bush baby." Then i went for a walk, came back, told her I was offended and that I was leaving that moment. She has since put the blame on me, (of course john is innocent) saying i called her child "racist," but what i said was "the child offended me with a racist remark." John hates her kids, but i guess the lovin' musta been extraordinary.:help:
I'm not too clued in on what else is happening. i know John's millionaire friend gave him 2 grand to float with, and that the drummer is "back on board," but I am still not sure who's said what to whom..:help:
There was another fun incident yesterday, but i won't mention that one. The van is undamaged luckily..:hiding::help:

To all TB'ers...

I swear, if it wasn't happening to me I wouldn't believe it...

Sounds like it's getting more and more fun - have you decided at what point you'd cut your losses and get out of there?

Alledgedly, one of the other agents contacted john last night and we have some more dates in the book. Hopefully the substitute drummer will be here until we get our main man, and i'm seriously considering what my options are. If this doesn't work, I'm definitely going to become a "casual hobbyist."

I'm not dead yet, but I've considered it...definitely!

See ya...

Sounds like it's getting more and more fun - have you decided at what point you'd cut your losses and get out of there?

I'm not sure..

I'm really trying to see just how much "dark before the dawn" I can take..

No one told me it was going to be easy.. I figure, if the agents actually do something, maybe we can salvage this mess. I sold my car, and i don't have anywhere to live in england now, so why not keep pushing? i'm going to abandon the sinking ship, when I'm positive it's a dead deal..

The music scene in london is real tight, and being an american didn't help.. In fact, i think it worked against me. Too many musicians, too little work, and everybody guarding they're piece of the shrinking pie. I got crumbs off the table. It looks good on the resume.. that's it.

I can't believe it, America's changed soo much to the point I don't recognize it. A lot of people don't want to see the economic festering IMO..

"sometimes winning is another way of saying you've got nothing left to lose."

I'm not sure..

I'm really trying to see just how much "dark before the dawn" I can take..

No one told me it was going to be easy.. I figure, if the agents actually do something, maybe we can salvage this mess. I sold my car, and i don't have anywhere to live in england now, so why not keep pushing? i'm going to abandon the sinking ship, when I'm positive it's a dead deal..

The music scene in london is real tight, and being an american didn't help.. In fact, i think it worked against me. Too many musicians, too little work, and everybody guarding they're piece of the shrinking pie. I got crumbs off the table. It looks good on the resume.. that's it.

I can't believe it, America's changed soo much to the point I don't recognize it. A lot of people don't want to see the economic festering IMO..

"sometimes winning is another way of saying you've got nothing left to lose."

Hon, you need to get the heck out of there. Do your upcomings, and then y'all need to cut out of that depressed suburban circle of Hades.

Vegas. Austin. Both places have work (Vegas, of course, pays better), and in Austin, y'all can make good contacts for more work. Both places are growing. While the economy here locally has definitely fallen off some, there are still plenty of gigs, and you can play out as much as you have time to.

God is playing Schwarzenegger right now, and screaming at you..."Get out!!! Get out of here!!! Its about to blow!!! Get out, get out!!!" Get of there before the warehouse blows up, you know? Let Arnold go back in and save the cat.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{[[HUGS!!!}}}}}}}}}}}}

Cherie

"Get out!!! Get out of here!!! Its about to blow!!! Get out, get out!!!"

+1. You can wait to play hockey in Havana until your skates rust off, or you can go to where the games are.

If you want to make money playing bass, go someplace where there's a scene and work. I know you think Chicago's too expensive, but it's not as expensive as waiting around Rockford until you're completely done in. You won't find anyone to help you in Rockford, because there isn't significant work to be had there.

Your "agent" friend isn't getting things done for you, and the band isn't happening. Get to where the game is.

I'll have to go with everyone's advice on this one... get out of there while you can, and head for the major cities in the area or surrounding states. Once you get out of there, put up a craigslist ad searching for a temp. drummer, and then roll with that. Start up a myspace based around your tour and the problems you're having. The worst case scenario you'll end up with is a few good recipes for squirrel or saltines. If the agent isn't working for you, then it's time to find a new agent with better connections in the hopes of better results. Rent yourself out as a substitute bassist for food/gas money, or give introductory bass lessons to get by. You'll only fail if you let yourself get stuck in a rut with no way out.

Wisconsin isn't too far away, neither is Iowa, Ohio and Michigan aren't out of reach either if Chicago isn't for you. The key is getting out of Rockford. Maybe go to O'hare airport and try booking a cheap flight via skybus, even if it's just to seek out prospects in other states. Since skybus is a commuter airline, the tickets tend to be relatively cheap (cheaper than paying for multiple tanks of gas at current gas prices).

I wish you good luck with your tour, just remember to be proactive, and work on getting word out to try building some contacts.

I'm ready to bail now...


and..

Last night we stepped into a restaurant, and one of the owners was very cool. He also played bass and he dug my fretless 6 string Warwick Thumb. We initially went to a jam session, but there was no music playing at that joint.

Well..

The owner was cool and he fed and watered us for no charge. He asked us if we wanted to do some songs at his club next door, "Brio" and we said "sure." Unfortunately,John had already started drinking, and he proceeded to go over the top. He was drunker than a skunk before we played and when we finally did play, he was terrible. i tried to play along, but his drunken version of "Dear Prudence" was at several different tempo's, and his fretting hand was innacurate to say the least.
I was embarassed, so after one song, I stopped and said "I'm finished." john continued to drink while I spoke with another TB'er here and another gentleman who knows Clyde Stubblefield. I looked up later and John was standing there with a Corona.. Still drinking..

I proceeded to drive us to the message parlour and went upstairs. He snored like a demon, and after going to bed at 2, I was up at 6.. Practicing, for a lack of anything else to do..

Well...

John gets up and talks to his Millionaire friend about doing a radio show (solo in san Diego for $400 bucks. He also offers another $400 to john for flight expenses. John is annoyed about agents not offering squat, and him being offered more for a interview.) He then proceeds to go to the library in the Van. I said "wait for me, I need to go there too." I wonder about his "hot headedness," since he can't possibly be sober, and he jumps in the suburban and proceeds to attempt to drive through a snowbank at the end of the parking lot next to the house. He then spents 30 minutes digging himself in deeper. End result, the van is stuck. (Do i see radiator fluid?) I told him "don't you think you're being a little impetuous, and not thinking this through?" he replys rather curtly "well, you do it Ray" I will also add that I didn't get in the van while he was being all aggressive. I stood back because I didn't want to be part of an obvious screw up that was imminent IMO.
I couldn't do anything, so he's going to wait for the agent to tow it out.

I'm broke, i've got 2 basses, 2 pairs of pants, and I'm finally looking to get the **** out of here. I am baby sitting this 42 YO nutter no longer. I am contacting my ex wife/love of my life and using 2 heads to figure out my options...

I don't see any way to fix this now.. I've gone from being screwed to being truly "deep in the do.." I'm really depressed now... I put my last hope on a nutcase. If you're gonna lead, you can't be a ****up and drag other people down...

Then again, this whole post proves "misery loves company."

If the agent isn't working for you, then it's time to find a new agent with better connections in the hopes of better results.
.

One of the agents we were talking to books bands like "POD," and other stuff on that level. Three of them are doing good business, the question is/was, whether they're going to help us.

What a bad time of year to be stranded in Northern Illinois.

Head south! or at least some place where winter is fun, ie Colorado.

Well, fellow TB'ers.. I've finally cracked. I'm fighting back the.... "frustration"..

See ya, sorry to have been so melodramatic in past posts.

I'm definitely cracked..

Warwickbass, will add testimony about this situation. Thanks bro for coming by the parlour and being a cool guy..

Thanks, Txbasschik, it was lovely talking to you last week..

Wow, what an adventure! This is going to be the story that no one will believe, but what a story to tell. :) Personally, I'm impressed with the way you're able to control yourself in these conditions.

I'll pray for you man.

Think how crazy strong you'll be after surviving this tour!

Honey, you are in a bad, rough, ugly place. Honestly, if you can get up some scratch and catch a bus to Texas, you'll find work. It doesn't pay much, but you'll work! Get out of that ugly place...goodness!!!

Or Colorado...playing for the ski bunnies.

Dang...You keep safe!

CherieMan, ya gotta get outta there. It's a little over $70 to go the 1,350 miles from Rockford to Austin on Greyhound. You will be O.K. there. The cops won't be hassling you, etc. Isn't Rockford the Nazi/skinhead capital of the U.S.? I kid you not.

I feel for you man! Can you stay with your mom? Don't get too down, there is always a way. I pray that you keep your head up. Sell one bass, don't let anyone know you have money, then get a bus ticket to some city with work.

Man, you picked a helluva city to park in.

Chicago Public Radio
Unemployment in the Rockford region jumped more than in any other U.S. metro area over the past year. A report from the U.S. Department of Labor shows the unemployment rate in Rockford almost doubled since October 2006. Eight-point-one percent of workers there are listed as unemployed. Rockford College economics professor Bob Evans says the city's been heavily dependent on factory jobs for decades.

I don't think your drunk buddy is helping the situation. Don't let him drag you down with him.
What can I/we do to help you?

I've been down similar roads over the years and no good will come of this. Move on, before you end up in county....just because you was there. Peace bro....

I know it's cold of me to post this but I just hafta do it:

Respect....

Well, it went easier at the rehearsal. Still, I'll be glad when I'm on tour in 3 weeks. I don't want to do this again for awhile!

Even though it was only 10/8/07, it must seem like a lifetime ago that you posted this on the thread about the chick singer/songwriter.

Unless you are getting some sort of enjoyment out of your misery (not saying you are, but then again...) get outta there. Plenty of people have offered up options way less risky than the move you originally made when you gave up everything to do this tour in the first place.

The Titanic has hit the iceberg, water is gushing into the gaping hole. You are standing on the deck thinking, "I'm sure it will be okay if I just wait a little longer."

DrayMiles, I don't know why you're still with this loser. It's clear this situation is going nowhere, fast. It already is nowhere.

Anyway, I live a little ways north of Rockford. I doubt there's much I can do, but PM me if you need anything or I can maybe be of assistance.

Your story reminds me of "Catcher in the Rye" for some reason. But over a longer period of time and more scary.

Wow, bro. I would tell you to stay if you really wanted to play with this John guy...but I dunno, that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. I would do what Intune says and just go somewhere else if you don't want to hook up with family or somthing.

Im sure somone needs a pair of slightly warn-in pants that are "absolutely worth $70"

But yeah, I'm sure things can get worse somehow, I would bail and not wait for anything.

Man, ya gotta get outta there. It's a little over $70 to go the 1,350 miles from Rockford to Austin on Greyhound. You will be O.K. there. The cops won't be hassling you, etc. Isn't Rockford the Nazi/skinhead capital of the U.S.? I kid you not.

There are a few drawbacks to Austin, but I think, overall, he'd be better off here. Or Nashville.

Music in Austin doesn't generally pay a lot, but there are a lot of contacts here, to hook up with people in town to record, or who need to pick up someone for a tour. I'm betting he'll run into musicians he's worked with before, which would be the best possible thing.

Drawbacks: Higher cost of living than it used to be. Unless he can get here and right away start playing a lot, he'll have to get a day job, at least for a while. Also, a guitarist I know, who moved here from Mexico just under a year ago, has found that the downtown scene isn't as open as it used to be. But that's prolly 'cause a) no one knows him and b) his thick accent. (Or at least, that's what he, himself, believes.)

Still...Austin's better than Rockford. We have a high employment rate, and a still-healthy economy. Its pretty here, even in the city. Its warmer, for sure! And, of course, there's music and musicians everywhere.

Cherie

Well....

The decision is made. I'm leaving next weekend. I did my best. Thanks everybody...
I cracked yesterday... Bigtime..

I've decided to go visit my mother. Haven't seen her in 13 years. I'm grateful that soo many TB'ers have helped me sort my head out through this terrible ordeal. My ex wife (but soon to be future again, whether she knows it or not.. I'm gonna be a begging fool!) Looked online and read the posts from you guys and she was touched by how positive and thoughtful you all were.
I'm only sticking around another week because my wife gave my dying bank account a surge of life saving funds. I am worried about the drummer and since he's my friend, i'm going to talk to the agents myself today. Warwickbass is coming over at three for a... I won't say "bass lesson," but i'll say we'll discuss my approach to it. I'm not gonna fight this anymore. I know I'll need to decide where I'll try to play and earn some bread. I've spoken to Brian Auger, Txbasschik, Jauqo, Pete Brown, and the son of Paul Gonsalves(?)(Duke Ellington's saxophonist), and Jack K. about where the action is. I think I'm gonna go to the jazz club on the main street and sit in for my own selfish needs. I'll admit, the approach listed here about learning tunes is effective! You know, the really hard approach..

I really appreciate the help. I've been through this kinda crap before, when I was in my early 20's, but as you get older, this kind of change is difficult.

I haven't given up on the dream, but I thinkmy priorities have been changed somewhat. I've missed some big gigs, and I'll admit, shot myself in the mouth on occassion by being "honest." I also noticed a trend among various "big name" artists. They are operating with a different mindset IMO. The one i've noticed is, They'll only hire you sometimes, when someone else in their clique says "you're safe." In otherwards, i'll hire John Doe, because "superstar x" hired him, and it looks good for my PR. I auditioned for Pebbles once, around 1991 in Atlanta at Dominique Wilkins club. I learned from the janitor that "Pebbles already has her band, this is just a media ploy to make it look like she's doing something for the community and scout out some talent." I'm not sure, but i think i remember seeing TLC there before they did anything. Later on, I learned Dallas Austin, (Columbus High School, Columbus Ga.) was "ahem," working with them. He was on a roll after he did "Another bad Creation's" "at the playground." More family stuff...

Ah, I'm rambling..

Anyway..

I'm quitting this endeavour. i'm absolutely terrified, but I can't save a sinking ship, and I realise that, only divine intervention can save this situation..

Anyway, I live a little ways north of Rockford. I doubt there's much I can do, but PM me if you need anything or I can maybe be of assistance.


God bless ya!!:crying: I appreciate it. Most definitely..

Think how crazy strong you'll be after surviving this tour!

After not having a bath or shower for a month.. Yes, i'll definitely be "strong" after this!

Smelling that is..:rolleyes:

Isn't Rockford the Nazi/skinhead capital of the U.S.? I kid you not.

I don't know? We got help to free the van this morning, (One of the snow trucks pushed it free) and I was told by John he was followed by the police for a long distance. I am sure this has happened at least 20 times since we've been here...

I'm still alive, and today I'm going to get batteries for the camera. When things settle down, I'll post them. You reall have to see this to believe it!

I feel for you man! Can you stay with your mom? Don't get too down, there is always a way. I pray that you keep your head up. Sell one bass, don't let anyone know you have money, then get a bus ticket to some city with work.

Sell a bass?! I'm worried about needing firewood..

It's a Warwick fer crying out loud!:smug:;) " The sound of wood "

Although, i'm thinking about "The taste of wood.":hiding:

Man, you picked a helluva city to park in.

Chicago Public Radio
Unemployment in the Rockford region jumped more than in any other U.S. metro area over the past year. A report from the U.S. Department of Labor shows the unemployment rate in Rockford almost doubled since October 2006. Eight-point-one percent of workers there are listed as unemployed. Rockford College economics professor Bob Evans says the city's been heavily dependent on factory jobs for decades.

I don't think your drunk buddy is helping the situation. Don't let him drag you down with him.
What can I/we do to help you?

My ex bass Teacher from Champaign IL. "John Pennell" lives in Nashville. I think he still writes with Alison krauss.

Tell him...

" He was a good student, never overplayed, loved bluegrass ;) ..."

But seriously..

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm not sure what I need besides having my head examined.;)

I'm glad you're getting out of there to be honest - every time I read this thread I got more and more worried for you! Going to see your mother, getting some help from your wife...sounds like some good could come out of this for you after all.

I know it's cold of me to post this but I just hafta do it:



Even though it was only 10/8/07, it must seem like a lifetime ago that you posted this on the thread about the chick singer/songwriter.

Unless you are getting some sort of enjoyment out of your misery (not saying you are, but then again...) get outta there. Plenty of people have offered up options way less risky than the move you originally made when you gave up everything to do this tour in the first place.

The Titanic has hit the iceberg, water is gushing into the gaping hole. You are standing on the deck thinking, "I'm sure it will be okay if I just wait a little longer."


I was reading that the other day...

I must have been someone along the lines of "Hitler" in my past life!

well, bro, if you read the rest of the stuff, you'll see I've decided to bail.. one more week to make sure i don't let the drummer fall into this mess as well.. After all, drums and bass are like a marriage. I screwed up one..

Well....

Here's an update on the squirrel situation,

Last night I was lying on my message "bed," at 2am working on "The lady is a tramp" when I heard the most incredible scratching and thumping noises coming from... The hallway.
I got up, and looked at the little trap door in the ceiling. I saw little "Claws" trying to "lift" the thin piece of plywood up and out of the way. being a superstious, coward in reality, i put on the "courageous brother from West Philly" stance a looked at the drama above me. I finally said **** it, and went downstairs to get John to bring his butt upstairs. He said, "I heard it while I was dreaming and started putting it in my dreams." I personally was terrified. I used to be a horror picture nut, but I don't want to actually see a ghost.

Naturally, the darn thing heard 2 of us and didn't make a sound. John said it was like "chicken run" when the chickens were revolting.

John walked back downstairs and I kept looking up, and in a crack, in the plaster, in the corner next to the light.. there was a "nose" pressed up against the crack. A tiny black, wet, nose... TWO nostrils (luckily..) ..

That's when I said,

**** it.

I went downstairs, unfolded another message table and went to sleep..

at 7 this morning.

john says it's a "Raccoon," I think it's a satanic Joan Rivers with a tail, and more plastic surgery gone wrong from the animal world.

I sleep downstairs now..

I'm glad you're getting out of there to be honest - every time I read this thread I got more and more worried for you! Going to see your mother, getting some help from your wife...sounds like some good could come out of this for you after all.

I loved cornwall..
Thanks,

I wouldn't believe this is happening if I wasn't in it!!

Thanks for caring, it means a lot to me..;)

Glad to here you are makin a move/getting out of a bad situation!
Look me up if you are ever passing through Ohio. There isn't a lot of work here in Columbus but I know most of the players and studios in town and will help you line up some work!
Good luck to you brother.
Steve

steve @ woodensoul dot com

Some people eat raccoon, though I wouldn't. If you get to west Tennessee send me a line. I have a musician friend in St. Louis and I also know a studio owner if you end up going to the west coast, , , , he could find you work (he's a bass player too, but spending more time in the studio these days working with some other artists). Good luck with the future, I know things will improve for you with the options that you mentioned. Let us all know how things are going.

Unfortunately,John had already started drinking, and he proceeded to go over the top. He was drunker than a skunk before we played and when we finally did play, he was terrible. i tried to play along, but his drunken version of "Dear Prudence" was at several different tempo's, and his fretting hand was innacurate to say the least.
I was embarassed, so after one song, I stopped and said "I'm finished." john continued to drink while I spoke with another TB'er here and another gentleman who knows Clyde Stubblefield. I looked up later and John was standing there with a Corona.. Still drinking..

It's bad enough that you two have had this nightmare experience in the first place. But as long as you both kept your heads on straight and continued to work together, you had hopes of being able to get the tour back on track.

But once reckless, irresponsible behavior starts to creep in, there is interpersonal friction, and you're no longer working together as a team, trust and confidence is destroyed - and then there's no longer anything left to salvage... :rollno:

As difficult as your circumstances are, there is no excuse for this type of conduct. Frankly, it's unprofessional, and you are absolutely justified in parting company with John ASAP.

Adversity does have a way of showing us what we're really made of, doesn't it? Sounds like this ordeal has provided an opportunity for you to rediscover the people and the things that most matter to you - perhaps along with some lessons about how not to approach touring in future. And that may yet prove to have made this whole horror show worth the sacrifice - depending of course on how you play it from this time forth... :hmm:

All the best to you!

MM

I think going to see your mom, and your ex(for now)wife is a very good idea. You need time to rest, and to think about what comes next. This has been a sleighride through purgatory for you. Time to fall back and regroup. Breathing space...ahhhhhhh!!!

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS!}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Cherie

Well, going to Chicago on monday with my good friend Mike. I've known him for almost 20years! I'm not gonna be too hard on John. After all the agent ONG productions, is the one that signed the contract. He knew the whole thing was fabricated. I can't give a fellow musician too much grief. I understand his torment. A bear recognizes another bear in the forest. I understand his anguish. Being a pro musician is the only job where you study more than any lawyer or Doctor, and still have problems working. If any of you guys from Chicago remember Donald Raphael Garrett(?) who played with Coltrane, Sun Ra, Monk, etc... He taught me, and he died in miserable circumstances in Champaign IL. I even knew the woman who worked on him after he passed. She said he was in such bad shape, She had someone from Chicago come down and help her. You gotta be in BAD shape for an enbalmer to "not" want to work on you. Ask Jauqo about Garrett. As prestigious as his accomplishments were, he was a tortured soul..

I understand that. My problem,(amongst others..) is not wanting to give up on people. John called me an "optimist" today. I'm really not...

Hmm, If I am... I take experiences like this as a positive thing as far as giving me more compassion towards people. The other stuff, I'm still working on...

But you guys here at TB have made Me see the good in people wayyyy more than the bad. And " if ever get out of this place" I have this documented as a record of who to pay kudos to.

Well, if you guys want to see who I used work for ... here are the sites as well as I can remember anyway..

http://www.songphonic.com
http://www.bronzerecords.co.uk

I worked as a Music director for one and a producer for the other (Both tooo briefly!!). It's more amusement!

Gerry Bron signed Motorhead, Uriah Heep, etc. and the other one is a younger company. He made me start playing the Doublebass again, Not to mention the piano. A bassist needs to play piano in todays climate.

Deal with publishers, not "necessarily" record companies.

If you go to popcom, midem and Southwest.. You can do business... BUT, if you IMO are thinking like a musician when you get there, I personally think you'll be missing the point. When you pick up your instrument, be a musician.. When you're sitting with business people, be a businessman..

Hmm...

I read the above statements and started laughing... considering I'm a musician who hated being in business(and my current situation!!! Ha!). My "other" theory was that I'd hire a Jewish lawyer to be my manager, and let him/her deal with that stuff, so I could enjoy playing again. (Why Jewish? Do you need to ask? Everyone that ever gave me high paying work in Europe was either Jewish or Irish... Only one Turkish dude so far!!!) No offense is meant by the aforementioned comments. I just happen to meet A LOT of Jewish people in this biz. I was told by Pete Brown that Jack is a Scottish Jewish cat from Glasgow.. How many people knew that? Hmmmm?)

Adversity does have a way of showing us what we're really made of, doesn't it? Sounds like this ordeal has provided an opportunity for you to rediscover the people and the things that most matter to you - perhaps along with some lessons about how not to approach touring in future. And that may yet prove to have made this whole horror show worth the sacrifice - depending of course on how you play it from this time forth... :hmm:

All the best to you!

MM

Amen to that!!!

:hiding:

I am a Rockford native and I am more than a little upset by hearing your tale.
Both because you slam my hometown, and because some of our local idiots were the ones to exclusively help you draw that conclusion.

Obviously you got set up in the ghetto, and met some real dirtbags because you stayed there.
The cops looking at you thing is ALSO because of where you are staying... and partially because of your appearance, I am sure.

This is not a racist community like someone posted... Rockford is NOT the "skinhead capitol" or something ridiculous,
Our brush with that element peaked when Geraldo Rivera had his nose broken 45 mins. North of here in Janesville, WI. while reporting on a KKK march.

Even at that time, there were 100x more protesters than there were marchers.

I understand being broke, and I understand being far from home with no money.
I have slept in a van before because I ran out of money on a trip... I am sure that many here have done the same.

Rockford is unique in that it is a fairly large town with an incredible small town complex. This comes from being the little brother to Chicago on many, many fronts. The upside of the size is that there are plenty of bars and clubs... The downside is that everyone knows EVERYONE. It can be tough sometimes for a new face to get some acceptance.

If you struck out that many times, it sounds to me like you (or your overindulgent friend) may have made an unfavorable impression on the locals, and then it spread like wildfire that you were too much trouble to deal with.

I am very disappointed to hear the sh*t-talking about my home town... and I would imagine many others who could have helped you are similarly put off.

If you wind up forced to stay here, PM me and I may be able to point you in the right direction.
It sounds like you are dealing with some of our local morons.

Also, if you need a hot shower as bad as it SOUNDS like you need a hot shower, the Petro truck stops have clean coin-operated showers that truckers use.

There is one at 251 and Rockton Rd. in Roscoe, IL, and another at I-39 and 1-88 in Rochelle, IL.
Either one is a 10-20 min. jaunt from where you are, but I think that a warm shower may be worth the trip for you unless you find one closer (which it appears you have not)...

As a working musician traveling through the US, sometimes without money for a motel, trust me you will use these facilities regularly.

Rockford is what it is.. :hiding:

From what I saw on the news this morning, Rockford is covered in ice, and lots of it. Be careful out there, and stay warm.

Cherie

Rockford is unique in that it is a fairly large town with an incredible small town complex. This comes from being the little brother to Chicago on many, many fronts. The upside of the size is that there are plenty of bars and clubs... The downside is that everyone knows EVERYONE. It can be tough sometimes for a new face to get some acceptance.

Hmm, OK. Sounds similar to how a guy from Peoria tried to justify that city to me (and I've lived there as well). Let's face it, per capita income is low, taxes are high and industry is lacking in Rockford. I see your need to defend it, but you need to live elsewhere to get a corrected perspective. And by elsewhere I do NOT mean Cherry Valley.

From what I saw on the news this morning, Rockford is covered in ice, and lots of it. Be careful out there, and stay warm.

Cherie

I will...

John went back to the UK yesterday. I'm visiting my friend Mike in Danville today. John wants to start again in three weeks, I would like to avoid working with him if possible. The drummer has gone back to Serbia today. Visa is pending...alledgedly.

If my basses aren't gone, I'll let you know what else is up..:hiding:

I am a Rockford native and I am more than a little upset by hearing your tale.
The cops looking at you thing is ALSO because of where you are staying... and partially because of your appearance, I am sure.

:eyebrow:

I am very disappointed to hear the sh*t-talking about my home town... and I would imagine many others who could have helped you are similarly put off.
Oh yeah, I'm sure that the Friends of Rockford got together & took a vote and they were thiiiis close to helping him but it was facts like these that swayed them into leaving this dude hanging-

"Starting as early as the 1990s Rockford has had the ignominious honor of being listed at times as one America's worst cities by the Rand McNally corporation and Money magazine, sometimes being ranked one of the top ten worst cities. This may have been due to the lack of jobs and high number of outdated or closed factories. Crime on the west side of town was endemic, with huge areas of old established neighborhoods in extreme blight. The homicide rate in these areas was quite high. Many houses were vacant with no one wishing to buy them."

I would say that referring to articles such as this, is talking about a piece of sh*t, not sh*t-talking. :eek:

Oh man, this thread got me reminiscing. I used to work in Huntley, just down the road from Rockford. I live in Michigan now and if you think things are bad down the back roads in Illinois, I recommend you stay away from here. It will just depress you to no end. I don't think there's any place in the Midwest that you get more of a tangible sense of how nice a place it was, once upon a time. You really can see painful, graphic evidence every single day of the calamitous decline in the standard of living.

As bad as it all sounds, it's still my home. It may be a crumbling post-apocalyptic wasteland, but it's my crumbling post-apocalyptic wasteland.

I guess the truth always hurts. I had never been to Rockford before this. I had no pre conceived notions...

But, NOW I'm starting to have an opinion.. The place is hurtin..

Like most of Illinois IMO.

Pick your next President carefully... OOps, then again, IN ALL HONESTY, WHO REALLY PICKED THIS ONE?

if you think things are bad down the back roads in Illinois, I recommend you stay away from here. It will just depress you to no end. I don't think there's any place in the Midwest that you get more of a tangible sense of how nice a place it was, once upon a time. You really can see painful, graphic evidence every single day of the calamitous decline in the standard of living.

.

You don't have to tell me again...;) I dig..:help:

It will get worse, I believe that, not to mention that that's the overall consensus as well...

From most people, not only about here, but America generally.

If you're making enough money where it doesn't affect you, then good for you. Count yourself lucky, OK?;)

And don't get offended... If people disagree. Can we disagree civilly?:p

I guess the truth always hurts. I had never been to Rockford before this. I had no pre conceived notions...

But, NOW I'm starting to have an opinion.. The place is hurtin..

Like most of Illinois IMO.

Pick your next President carefully... OOps, then again, IN ALL HONESTY, WHO REALLY PICKED THIS ONE?

It took more than 8 years for conditions in some areas to reach this level. If you would like to place blame, take a look NAFTA and the extensive lobbying to allow China in the WTO. Too big a gaff to lay on any one person or political party. It's called greed and it knows no boundaries. These two moves basically gutted the heart of US industry and left us with a service oriented society. Thus the empty, outdated factories and once proud middle class neighborhoods being taken over by HUD rentals. I'll just leave it at that.

DrayMiles, experience was his. I know people who live in Rockford who haa similar things to say about Rockford and they would agree with him 110%.


I've never cared what some one had to say or say about the city I live in because their experience is what it is.

DrayMiles, experience was his. I know people who live in Rockford who haa similar things to say about Rockford and they would agree with him 110%.


I've never cared what some one had to say or say about the city I live in because their experience is what it is.

Fair enough bro..

Call me, I'll be in Chicago briefly tommorrow, I think..

It took more than 8 years for conditions in some areas to reach this level. If you would like to place blame, take a look NAFTA and the extensive lobbying to allow China in the WTO. Too big a gaff to lay on any one person or political party. It's called greed and it knows no boundaries. These two moves basically gutted the heart of US industry and left us with a service oriented society. Thus the empty, outdated factories and once proud middle class neighborhoods being taken over by HUD rentals. I'll just leave it at that.

Ayup. Those particular errors were made across decades, and were championed by Presidents from both major political parties. NAFTA...Ohhhhh, don't get me started on that!!! :scowl:

Cherie

To get off the political tangent here...

Just to chime in with my opinions of the Rockford area...I live about 45 minutes north of there...I've been through a few times, though I'm not really familiar with the city. I think it's like quite a few towns in that area...there are indeed some very rough parts I wouldn't want to go through. At the same time, there are some fairly well-to-do suburbs surrounding Rockford. Not much different than a lot of major Midwest cities, really.

Dray - some day down the road you're going to look at these days and they are going to stand out so vivid to you, like a fever dream. As hard as it is in places like Rockford, every moment is as real as it gets for the people who live there. Chicago is fun, but it ain't "real," unless you're south of Harrison St.

It seems strange but that's what makes me love America so much. "Real" America isn't on the TV screen and it's not in the magazines. You have to go looking for it. And when you find it, it's etched on people's faces indelibly. There isn't that much honest and direct experience in America these days, but you seem to have found some. The cost was high but you didn't come away emptyhanded.

That's the source of some of this American pride