I have now officially started my first build.:hyper: Here are the specs:

34" Lined fretless 5 string
multiple laminates of Purpleheart, Wenge, Padauk and Maple
Fretboard will be Cocobolo
Top will be Flamed Maple

Here are some pictures of the laminates. They are not glued, just clamped to prevent warpage since Arizona is really dry in the winter.

I'll post the updated picture of the design tomorrow.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd5/rahaz/100_6898.jpg


http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd5/rahaz/100_6902.jpg

dayyyumm, those are some nice woods, I have a feeling this'll be a looker~!

tasty sandwich!

Nice lams!
But be aware that if you glue them as pictured then chances are that the outer most lams will not run the entire length of the neck due to the taper of the neck.

Gone is right, looks nice though. You said neck was purpleheart, padau, wenge and maple but I see no maple there.

Also, most people here would use many more clamps, and not use the quick-clamps at all. And, another thick board on top would be good to spread the clamp loading.

I got over a dozen of those besseys and about 16 8'' C clamps, yes I put them all when gluing a board or a neck blank. Those quick clamps usually arent strong enough.

The laminates are not being glued so I guess it doesn´t matter how many and what kind of clamps you are using.

Nice lams!
But be aware that if you glue them as pictured then chances are that the outer most lams will not run the entire length of the neck due to the taper of the neck.

Thanks, I had planned on seeing the ends cut at the skew.

Here is the prelim of the Front. Ignore the purpleheart lam on the headstock:
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd5/rahaz/front.jpg

Here is the prelim back:

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd5/rahaz/back.jpg

Gone is right, looks nice though. You said neck was purpleheart, padau, wenge and maple but I see no maple there.

Yeah. I still need to order the Maple from Larry at Hardwood Gallery. Gotta have the $$ first though. :hmm:

Also, most people here would use many more clamps, and not use the quick-clamps at all. And, another thick board on top would be good to spread the clamp loading.

Thanks for the tip on the extra board to spread the force. These are not glued yet, just synched down to keep from warping until I get the Maple in hand.

I've got 8 or so more of the center type of clamp, a couple large C's and then the quick clamps. From what i have seen on here I will be putting every friggin one on there when it's time to glue.

nice ideas you got going here!

Can I suggest rearranging the wenge? Look at the end grains, it looks like you have the same board split on the left(top) and right(bottom). Mirror the grain if you can. And alternating direction with that many lams should make it like steel. :)
Good luck and a nice looking combo.
Dirk

Also, most people here would use many more clamps, and not use the quick-clamps at all. And, another thick board on top would be good to spread the clamp loading.

Yes! And alternate the direction of the clamps... one of the right side, one on the left side, etc.

Those quick clamps are not up to the job.

Yes! And alternate the direction of the clamps... one of the right side, one on the left side, etc.

If you dont, you could end up with a bowed neck blank. looking at my pile of fire wood, I realize I have learnt my lesson...

any bass made with purpleheart wins my vote...i want to see how this looks in the end!

If you dont, you could end up with a bowed neck blank. looking at my pile of fire wood, I realize I have learnt my lesson...

Really? Thanks god I did that but not avoiding a bowed neck but because I had more space to manipulate and adjust the clamps in that way!!! Nice tip;)

Yes! And alternate the direction of the clamps... one of the right side, one on the left side, etc.

Those quick clamps are not up to the job.

More great advice. I will end up with two neck blanks from this 5x5.5" block when it is all planed and jointed.

Anyone have Wenge crack on them when clamped? :confused:

Can I suggest rearranging the wenge? Look at the end grains, it looks like you have the same board split on the left(top) and right(bottom). Mirror the grain if you can. And alternating direction with that many lams should make it like steel. :)
Good luck and a nice looking combo.
Dirk

Thanks Dirk, I'll make sure I have the grain alternating once they are planed and I start gluing them together.

Actually, if you use supports between the clamps and the neck, you can distribute a great deal more strength instead of having direct pressure and also prevent bowing. It took me a few necks to figure this out, but all my necks are dead flat and precise now. I'm still using a couple of those quick clamps until I can afford some more Bessey's, you're looking at about $170 in clamps in that picture. I was experimenting with pine as the support on this build, as I had been using Iron bars before. Metal is too cumbersome, and surprisingly the pine worked out just fine.

http://jonsbasses.com/gallery/d/961-1/7-String+7.JPG

http://jonsbasses.com/gallery/d/965-3/7-String+8.JPG (http://jonsbasses.com/gallery/v/guitars/7stringryan/7-String+8.JPG.html)

http://jonsbasses.com/gallery/d/971-3/7-String+9.JPG (http://jonsbasses.com/gallery/v/guitars/7stringryan/7-String+9.JPG.html)

If you dont, you could end up with a bowed neck blank. looking at my pile of fire wood, I realize I have learnt my lesson...

You know, what I learned was to get some books on general woodworking. And Watch New Yankee Workshop! Nothing like watching a seasoned pro use machines and clamps.

They aren't lutherie related, but it stops from making the mistakes we all make as beginners... this stuff is already all figured out, we don't have to reinvent the wheel. :) Lots of info to glean.

Some of the router and bandsaw books have great ideas too.

I love the smell of cut wood. :D

Here is the updated Design. Let me know what you guys think.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd5/rahaz/RAHAZ_Bass-20071129.jpg

I will be laminating the neck tonight and this weekend with some thin veneers of Maple. More pictures will be posted once done.

Looks good but I would add more forearm and belly cut.

I like it...but I would maybe consider taking out a small circle on the lower horn, I mean small..like 1/2 inch or so...I don't have photoshop on this computer...if I get on my lab top later I'll show you what I mean...

Greenman: I'll have to see how it feels once I get to that point but I would have to agree with you.

Worshiper: Do you mean a full circle out of the end of the lower horn? Like a donut?

The more I look at those outter laminates running out as they go towards the headstock, the more it looks like a mistake, even if it was on purpose.

The more I look at those outter laminates running out as they go towards the headstock, the more it looks like a mistake, even if it was on purpose.

I agree. I would have less lams on the outsides. I think the outer two purpleheart pieces should run all the way to the edge, or better yet, use some lighter wood like mahogany for the outer lams. All that hard stiff wood is unnecessary. It will be a tight sounding bass.

Also, that's going to be a heavy neck. I'd make the headstock smaller.

It will probably be necessary to build a small amount of relief in that neck when the fingerboard it glued on, that way the truss rod will not be slack at any time, and the neck might be too stiff to get any relief if it's wanted. I adjust my necks straight, but do build some relief into them.

How do I put "relief" in a neck?:confused:

How do I put "relief" in a neck?:confused:

When you glue on your fingerboard you use a clamping caul. So what you do is slip a small shim in the center of the fingerboard, so when the ends are clamped you will have a slight curve. Then of course put more clamps on. Just don't over tighten.

I use something like a piece of maple veneer or a match book cover. Nothing too thick. Then when the glue is dry, you can tighten the rod slightly to get the neck straight.

Ah. Okay. Thank you for the tip.

I have more laminating to do tonight and tomorrow night to get everything ready to make the two neck blanks later in the week.

Someone mentioned that my headstock might be too large. What is a good overall size (if it were to fit in a box) for a headstock on a 5 string bass? I approximated mine.

Someone mentioned that my headstock might be too large. What is a good overall size (if it were to fit in a box) for a headstock on a 5 string bass? I approximated mine.

Just keep it the same shape and take a little off the edges... maybe 1/4" or less?

Your tuners are a good location.

Here are some updated pictures. I have now finished laminating the neck blank and will cut it down and square it all up on Monday after it has time to dry. Keep your eye out for that update since it'll have the "money shot" of what the neck will look like.

Lessons learned:
#1 When working with thin veneer, pre-plan and move fast because it likes to curl up quicker than you'd think.

#2 Arm hair and wood glue aren't good bedfellows.:rollno:

#3 Take it easy on the glue. After doing all of this I see how clean some of the other guys get their necks while gluing and wonder how.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd5/rahaz/100_6946.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd5/rahaz/100_6948.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd5/rahaz/100_6949.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd5/rahaz/100_6947.jpg

What do you think?

What do you think?

In the future, you should arrange your clamps so they alternate, one left, one right, etc. But you are using two cauls, so it should be fine.

:hiding: You are brave for posting pics!!!
that's a shiteload of lams boy....

<lol> It's only 13. :D And I haven't decided if by building this I am brave or stupid. Perhaps a bit of both.

Looks like you forgot to put some wax paper in between the neck lams and the support piece. Have fun prying those apart. :)

I made that mistake once when gluing veneer, the glue squeezed through the pores. No fun!

where did you get the veneers? did you thin them yourself or did you maybe order them online. I'm looking for a few and I'm not sure the best place to find them.

Looks like you forgot to put some wax paper in between the neck lams and the support piece. Have fun prying those apart. :)

Just what I was thinking when I looked the pics but Rahaz didn't forgot it... just put the lower one in wrong place ;)

No, it looks like he glued up one half of the neck beforehand, and now he's gluing the top half of the laminates together, so the bottom piece of wax paper is just to collect falling glue or something . . .

No, it looks like he glued up one half of the neck beforehand, and now he's gluing the top half of the laminates together, so the bottom piece of wax paper is just to collect falling glue or something . . .

Bingo! Well... That and I forgot to put on the other piece. :smug:

where did you get the veneers? did you thin them yourself or did you maybe order them online. I'm looking for a few and I'm not sure the best place to find them.

Worshipper,
I got the birch veneer at my local wood place called Wood Workers Source. Cheap too.

I see, that makes sense. I look forward to seeing the laminates planed down flat.

where did you get the veneers? did you thin them yourself or did you maybe order them online. I'm looking for a few and I'm not sure the best place to find them.

A lot of places that sell lumber and woodworking supplies have them.

I've bought them from Constantines (http://www.constantines.com/) in the past.

They have died black veneer which is nice to use along with maple between layers.

You can see those as well as some purpleheart veneer under the fingerboard in this picture.

http://www.sgd-lutherie.com/images/DSC02735.jpg

now that is a cool detail!

Got some more work done tonight. I should have taken David's advice when clamping to alternate the directions. I ended up with some voids and waves in the veneer. Thankfully it is the part that will be shaved for the neck.

Here are the pics. What do you think?

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd5/rahaz/100_6996.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd5/rahaz/100_6999.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd5/rahaz/100_7000.jpg

The bad:

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd5/rahaz/100_7007.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd5/rahaz/100_7005.jpg

Should I route the truss rod now while I still have a good solid platform?

Yes, you should route the truss rod when the neck is square. Looks like two of the maple veneers are kind of wavy (due to poorly distributed clamp strength) and the Wenge / Padauk lams near it have a gap between them. I suggest you draw your taper line and post a picture of it to get more professional advice. I hope the neck is still usable, the laminate contrast look great!

Yes, you should route the truss rod when the neck is square. Looks like two of the maple veneers are kind of wavy (due to poorly distributed clamp strength) and the Wenge / Padauk lams near it have a gap between them. I suggest you draw your taper line and post a picture of it to get more professional advice. I hope the neck is still usable, the laminate contrast look great!

Thanks. The wavy part and void you see is on the back (both blanks) which will be cut out once I get to shaping the neck.

I'll mark up the taper tomorrow night and snap a shot.

If there are any voids I saved some saw dust and will buy some "super glue" (cyano*whatever it is called) and fill it with that.

nope. no good. scrap it. box it up and mail it to me....:D:D:D

nope. no good. scrap it. box it up and mail it to me....:D:D:D

<lol> :D

I suggest you draw your taper line and post a picture of it to get more professional advice.

Here is the fretboard side. No waves. Had to use tape since the woods are so dark.
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd5/rahaz/100_7011.jpg

Slight void here on the right between the Padauk and Wenge. It'll be filled.
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd5/rahaz/100_7013.jpg

Here is the rough idea of the profile.
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd5/rahaz/100_7016.jpg

This is the wavy part. It will be cut. Hopefully exposing the good part of the join.
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd5/rahaz/100_7018.jpg

It looks a lot better than I thought it would, although it is extremely hard to tell without being able to inspect it in person. Regardless, a minor gap in the wood will not ruin the entire build. Just don't get any of the maple veneer gap in your build, that's much more than a minor gap.

although that never happened to me on necks, it did happen a couple of times on bodies. This is why I invested (a lot of $$$) on these because necks is definitely where you DON'T want voids. These are custom clamps made to my specs by wetzler.


This is a test fit, on a real glue up I alternate the clamps bottom/top.
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/5237/p1000358tu7.jpg

The neck blank looks great! Pretty colors.

I would force some glue into the voids and clamp it together.

But if it's getting trimmed off, why bother.

although that never happened to me on necks, it did happen a couple of times on bodies. This is why I invested (a lot of $$$) on these because necks is definitely where you DON'T want voids. These are custom clamps made to my specs by wetzler.


This is a test fit, on a real glue up I alternate the clamps bottom/top.

That is one nice setup you have there Wilser!

no kidding Wilser, those clamps are nicer than some of the hardware you see on some basses!
Hope you keep 'em nice and glue-free:p

no kidding Wilser, those clamps are nicer than some of the hardware you see on some basses!
Hope you keep 'em nice and glue-free:p

too late for that!

if anybody wants the best clamps made today contact these guys and support a US business!

http://www.wetzler.com/

You know, I was looking at those pictures again, to see if there were any other problems in the wavy veneer area, since there was obviously not enough clamping pressure there. In some of the shots it looks like between the wenge and the padauk, on the opposite side of the midline from the wavy maple, there may also be separation.

wilser...
why not use clamps like this for necks? (im a noob)
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/anthonyebner/ad53.jpg

wilser...
why not use clamps like this for necks? (im a noob)
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/anthonyebner/ad53.jpg

Not tall enough for my design. I laminate blocks and boards as wide as 6" so those wouldn't be as effective.

Wilser, I've been looking at your site recently. I WANT one of your basses! :bassist:

Wilser, I've been looking at your site recently. I WANT one of your basses! :bassist:

Who doesn't????? :crying:

Not tall enough for my design. I laminate blocks and boards as wide as 6" so those wouldn't be as effective.

yeah i susppose that it could work for some 4 string necks but not much else

yeah i susppose that it could work for some 4 string necks but not much else

it's got nothing to do with the number of strings. For example, a 3 piece neck. Laminate the pieces face to face (wide face) then flip it on it's side and resaw perpendicular to the glue lines. You get many necks from one glue up. The pic I posted illustrate how the clamps put pressure all through the width of the wide faces, something that cannot be done with those clamps you posted.

Not tall enough for my design. I laminate blocks and boards as wide as 6" so those wouldn't be as effective.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/anthonyebner/fig4.jpg
how about something like this?

You would need 6-8 of those and that would cost about double what mine did not to mention things like that are extremely difficult to find (I've only seen one offering from Grizzly Industrial). Apart from that you'd have to dedicate a fair amount of shop space to such a set up for something that is not used everyday. Weight is another problem.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/anthonyebner/fig4.jpg
how about something like this?