which woods are absolutely out of the question when it comes to guitar/bass building? ive heard that oak has thin, tin-like tone. ive been told that pine is too soft. supposedly ironwood has a high iron content that effects the electronics. (is this even true?)
so what is the worst wood choice for bass building? any body have any pics of bass building disasters?

oak is heavy, but it's suitable for bass building if you compensate for the weight

untreated balsa wood and a solid body made from completely spalted (i.e. rotted) woods are a bad idea

Iron Wood is bad for electronics? I guess they need to fix all of those basses made with Pau Ferro fretboards, eh? ;)


Wilser is our resident authority on woods and their tonality ... I'm sure he'll jump in soon. in the mean time, you could always do a search and see what he's been able to determine in previous threads

all the best,

R

Iron Wood is bad for electronics? I guess they need to fix all of those basses made with Pau Ferro fretboards, eh? ;)


yeah somebody told me that the high iron content in ironwood could interfere with pickups. probly BS. so pau ferro is ironwood?

Ferro as in Ferric, as in Iron :p

I think Pau is greek or latin for tree or wood?

So by definition Pau Ferro is basically Iron Wood.

Tho ive never seen anyone using a Pau Ferro body, tho they do make really nice fretboards!

I wouldn't use pine.

lowsound

from Luthier's Mercantile

Pau Ferro/Morado Fingerboard
In the last few years this has become quite a popular fingerboard wood, mostly among electric guitar manufacturers. The devotees include Fender™, Music Man™, Peavey™, Sadowsky™, and several more. It’s likely to become even more popular in the next few years as it will probably be less expensive than Indian Rosewood, the current wood of choice for fingerboards among large manufacturers. Pau Ferro (Machaerium villosum or schleroxylon), also known as Morado, Santos Rosewood, or Bolivian Rosewood is not a true Rosewood, but it boasts many of the qualities that are highly regarded in a fingerboard wood. It’s stable, abrasion resistant, hard, attractive, exotic and has good compression strength parallel to the grain. It’s not so resinous that it can be difficult to glue like a few of the Rosewoods. From Brazil and Bolivia, supplies are adequate and no shortages are anticipated.


pau ferro in its native Portugese literally translates as wood iron, or as we would say it in English iron wood


all the best,

R

how about teak? it attractive, rot resistant(doesnt need to be finished) and not too expensive. does anybody make guitars from it?

I think pine should only be used in special cases, like when you're going for a 13 string ERB.

hey look at zacharyguitars.com, the guy makes some instruments (mostly guitars) out of less conventional woods.

http://www.zacharyguitars.com/220400pics.htm

http://www.zacharyguitars.com/071199pics.htm (my favorite :D)

Warmoth has a Teak J-bass up for sale at the moment

http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/sc_guitar_necks.cfm?itemNumber=BN1450

http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/necks/BN1450a.jpg
http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/necks/BN1450b.jpg

IIRC there is a lot of sand/clay in the wood, so working it is really tough on your cutter blades

all the best,

R

I think pine should only be used in special cases, like when you're going for a 13 string ERB.

hahahaha

For what I know, Pau Ferro is more like Rosewood. As for Ironwood the formal name of the species is Lignum Vitae.

The absolutely worst wood i can think of is spalted balsa.

Bamboo came to mind, but i'm sure the chinese will be exporting it compressed planks soon, and its really hard. It's like, a grass or something, not even a wood.

[QUOTE=ehque;4975512]The absolutely worst wood i can think of is spalted balsa.

QUOTE]

has anyone successfuly mad a guitar or bass out of balsa? maybe if you wrapped in fiberglass like a surfboard.....hmmmm

can Balsa even become spalted? im curious to know if its actually been found.

has anyone successfuly mad a guitar or bass out of balsa? maybe if you wrapped in fiberglass like a surfboard.....hmmmm

Well, if a bass made of balsa wrapped in fiberglass counts as a bass made of balsa, then my Zon is a bass made of air. Possible, but i dont think balsa comes in chunks that big. Not sure.

can Balsa even become spalted? im curious to know if its actually been found.

Spalting is just fungal damage. I'm sure if you bury a balsa log out in some soil and leave it for a while, you'll get spalted balsa.

Or a whole bunch of fertillizer.

how about cork?

Rotten??? :D

spalted wood is basically rotten. the dark marks are caused by fungus

Soft woods on solid bodies don't necessarily work very well. So pine is not an optimal choice for a P bass.

I think pine was used on the original Telecasters.

i suppose pine's shortcomings would only cause problems when used for necks or fingerboards.

The absolutely worst wood i can think of is spalted balsa.

Bamboo came to mind, but i'm sure the chinese will be exporting it compressed planks soon, and its really hard. It's like, a grass or something, not even a wood.

It's not a bass, but Stick makes a touchstyle instrument out of bamboo.

http://www.stick.com/instruments/bamboo/

It's not a bass, but Stick makes a touchstyle instrument out of bamboo.

http://www.stick.com/instruments/bamboo/

Bamboo as a compressed fiber product is ridiculously strong, its used as renewable flooring. What i was thinking off was raw bamboo, with its huge air cavities and all.

*Yawns*



Whatever "wood" was used to make this:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b135/faithnomore321/cardboard-bass.jpg

I read once that every continent has something called ironwood. The heaviest wood in a given area gets called ironwood by the locals. As far as I know it's all about density, not metal content.

I believe sitar necks are made from Teak

cork is bark, not wood

I think basswood sucks. Any basswood axe I've ever played had a loose and wooly low end that I just do not dig. From a builders perspective, they also soak up a sh*tload of finish when you spray them, which I've had to do a number of times on customer-supplied bodies.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=220945
Budman used pine for the body of this bass. He liked it enough to do it again.

ply, particle.

Well now, about that particle board statement. Several months back there was a thread asking what was the Best sounding wood. Brad Johnson posted this pic of a bass Brubaker had built using a particle board countertop. You never know?http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k150/brad5161/FormicaBru.jpg
Here is a link to that thread: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=327050

There are no inferior woods, only inferior building.

Ive used oak, its similar to ash. I think the reason you don't see it more often is because it is not a good looking wood (IMO).

I have some really cool pine Ill be using for tops soon...sort of a birdseye pine if you will.

I believe sitar necks are made from Teak

I dont know too much about the subject, I picked up a Sitar in Katmandu, Nepal and it seems to be Mahogany, It might be Teak too since it is widely used in Calcutta to build sitars. I heard something about Tun wood, wonder what that is.... I really have to post pics of it soon. Its a crazy beautiful sounding and looking instrument.

There are no inferior woods, only inferior building

couldnt have said it better myself. As Larry says, no bad tools, no bad wood, just bad applications.

Pine. Agathis. Basswood. Poplar. These are all $hit woods IMO. I imagine that trying to use Southern Pine would REALLY suck. You get the thing built and it would leave sap on every time you play it. Squier uses Agathis.
Although I've never seen an Oak guiatar, I can't help but think it would be kind cool. You could mount a door knocker on it and use it for sound effects.

Agathis.
Basswood is quite OK, CIJ Aerodyne Fenders have basswood bodies and they sounds quite nice

Well now, about that particle board statement. Several months back there was a thread asking what was the Best sounding wood. Brad Johnson posted this pic of a bass Brubaker had built using a particle board countertop. You never know?http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k150/brad5161/FormicaBru.jpg
Here is a link to that thread: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=327050WOW! That looks killer, IMO!

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k150/brad5161/FormicaBru.jpg

The whole ironwood thing is intriguing - I was under the impression that it got its name due to it's rusty color and hardness. Does it really have iron in it?

It's hard to say what the absolute worst is because all have their pros and cons - for electric bass I personally don't like the softer and lighter woods (balsa, pine, cedar, etc.). But for acoustic bass, those are the best (at least for tops).

WOW! That looks killer, IMO!

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k150/brad5161/FormicaBru.jpg

I really like the looks of that. I think i may have to go build a body out of some scrap mdf (a little more dense than what is pictured) and laminate that I have sitting in my garage.

Ironwood is a colloquialism for any really hard wood for a given region...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironwood

Lignum vitae is one of the woods known as "ironwood", is incredibly heavy (sinks in water) and is so oily that it was used for propeller shaft bearings as late as WWII (due to the self-lubricating and excellent wearing properties).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lignum_vitae

Pine. Agathis. Basswood. Poplar. These are all $hit woods IMO. I imagine that trying to use Southern Pine would REALLY suck. You get the thing built and it would leave sap on every time you play it. Squier uses Agathis.

I have a LTD which have an agathis body and it sounds quite good. Sound on a bass is much more than just the wood you use.

Pine. Agathis. Basswood. Poplar. These are all $hit woods IMO. I imagine that trying to use Southern Pine would REALLY suck. You get the thing built and it would leave sap on every time you play it. Squier uses Agathis.
Although I've never seen an Oak guiatar, I can't help but think it would be kind cool. You could mount a door knocker on it and use it for sound effects.

eddie van halen is convinced that basswood is the best tonewood there is, so it's pretty subjective. Bongo's are nice sounding basses, i don' think that anyone could claim they are crap because of the bodywood;.

Agathis.
Basswood is quite OK, CIJ Aerodyne Fenders have basswood bodies and they sounds quite nice

+1 Don't care for agathis myself. I have, or rather my son has it now, a Ibanez GSR200 with an agathis body and while it doesn't sound bad, I just don't like the wood. I also own a Ibanez EDB405 and I have no problems with the basswood body. It looks good through the transparent black and the sound is incredible.

WOW! That looks killer, IMO!

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k150/brad5161/FormicaBru.jpg

Hey!! Basically using a "pick-guard" as a top "wood". Cool. :cool:

I would guess the worst would be pressed plywood. That is wood chips and left overs that are pressed into ply. It is pretty....... cheap would be a good word for it.

my brother has an excellent cheap plywood gretsch bass, so i wouldn't call it a bad tonewood myself. it isn't high quality plywood either...

(due to the self-lubricating and excellent wearing properties).

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ;)

Pine. Agathis. Basswood. Poplar. These are all $hit woods IMO. I imagine that trying to use Southern Pine would REALLY suck. You get the thing built and it would leave sap on every time you play it. Squier uses Agathis.
Although I've never seen an Oak guiatar, I can't help but think it would be kind cool. You could mount a door knocker on it and use it for sound effects.

Wow I'm wondering what your idea of non "$hit woods" are....:rollno:

someone needs to build an Oak body w/birdseye Balsa top and a teac neck with pao ferro fingerboard.

what about Cedar? or beech? fir? driftwood? and whatever they use on the dashboards of Italian sports cars.

someone needs to build an Oak body w/birdseye Balsa top and a teac neck with pao ferro fingerboard.

what about Cedar? or beech? fir? driftwood? and whatever they use on the dashboards of Italian sports cars.Drums made out of beech sound incredible, don't know about basses though.

eddie van halen is convinced that basswood is the best tonewood there is, so it's pretty subjective.

Do you have a source to qualify this statement? Not being picky, just interested. Also, how can anyone know that his actual guitar has a basswood core even though his line of guitars does?

According to the interviews, he used to just pick his guitars off the line at Peavey, indicating that what you play is what he plays... but we digress.

I'm not over-fond of solid maple bodies... maple laminates, yes, but solid maploe bodies weigh things down, and IMO don't really do anything positive for the sound...

I'm not over-fond of solid maple bodies... maple laminates, yes, but solid maploe bodies weigh things down, and IMO don't really do anything positive for the sound...


I disagree, maple can make a bass sound brilliant, esp the eastern "Rickenbacker" variety.

The beautiful "ring" of hard maple is just as sweet as its' sap.

my all maple Gibson G3 sounds awesome.

What about Morning Wood? ;)

I think i know the worst kind of wood:

the wet kind:hyper:

Do you have a source to qualify this statement? Not being picky, just interested. Also, how can anyone know that his actual guitar has a basswood core even though his line of guitars does?
the body of his guitar is a second

and he's quoted saying "I don't care if my guitar's wood has a knot or anything"

he has also said he's lied many times in the past about his gear to prevent people from stealing his tone

Very subjective topic. I mean, all depends on what one likes. For example, i hate the basswood. First for its name, rofl, 2nd for its tone. Aerodyne Fenders are made with basswood, and alot of ibanez`s, the sound is very fat...an Aerodyne Fender with basswood body wont give u that traditional J bass sound, maybe it could if u use an on board pre, dunno. I simply don't like it.

he has also said he's lied many times in the past about his gear to prevent people from stealing his tone
Honestly, I'm surprised he doesn't wear a tinfoil hat on stage.

According to the interviews, he used to just pick his guitars off the line at Peavey, indicating that what you play is what he plays...

Yes, I do digress, but thanks for the info I appreciate it.

he has also said he's lied many times in the past about his gear to prevent people from stealing his tone

Yes, the reality is that you never really know.

What about Morning Wood? ;)I, for one, would never take a router to Morningwood! Ever.

Hey!! Basically using a "pick-guard" as a top "wood". Cool. :cool:

If I remember well the original thread where that pic was posted the top is not made from pickguard material, its a particle board (or some kind of thing like that) black dyied. That is IF I remember well.

Wow I'm wondering what your idea of non "$hit woods" are....:rollno:

Cheap, low density, soft and ugly. Anything that fuzzes when you sand it.

Ironwood is a colloquialism for any really hard wood for a given region...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironwood

Lignum vitae is one of the woods known as "ironwood", is incredibly heavy (sinks in water) and is so oily that it was used for propeller shaft bearings as late as WWII (due to the self-lubricating and excellent wearing properties).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lignum_vitae

Yes, It also appears that chips of this wood can be used for tea.

Sounds like a good fretless FB candidate

Do you have a source to qualify this statement? Not being picky, just interested. Also, how can anyone know that his actual guitar has a basswood core even though his line of guitars does?

just random interviews i read. his music man definitely had a basswood body and i think so does the peavey.
i also recall him saying that ash sounds $hit, but i think his charvel guitars are made of ash so..... i guess he is fickle!

anyways, my point was that there are a lot of people out there who think that basswood is a good tone wood.

What about Morning Wood? ;)

stick a tuning fork in it and you will know:D.

I hereby nominate this thread as "the biggest load of crap ever compiled on a single thread on TB".

What a bunch of misinformed comments and VOODOO crap!

I hereby nominate this thread as "the biggest load of crap ever compiled on a single thread on TB".

What a bunch of misinformed comments and VOODOO crap!

Yup, i was surprised with a lot of basswood answers. Bongos are made of basswood and they are absolutely tone monsters.

Pine. Agathis. Basswood. Poplar. These are all $hit woods IMO. I imagine that trying to use Southern Pine would REALLY suck. You get the thing built and it would leave sap on every time you play it. Squier uses Agathis.
Although I've never seen an Oak guiatar, I can't help but think it would be kind cool. You could mount a door knocker on it and use it for sound effects.

ESP will also use agathis on some of their basses, like the F-254 and F-255, which really pisses me off that they would do that to a bass that could be very high quality if it weren't for that wood

What makes you think that use of a specific wood makes an instrument of more quality that another otherwise identical one?

Guaranteed that if Sadowsky starts using agathis it will be come the end-all of "tonewoods" among bass players.

Oh, the horror! I have blasphemed against the gods! :scowl:

I don't really understand the hate for basswood.

just cause it's cheaper doesn't make it worse...

I don't really like the tonal characteristics of mahogany for bass. Tho there are exceptions to this.

uh, plywood? no, I know...

how about rotten, termite wood? that's gotta be the worst to build a bass out of.

I hereby nominate this thread as "the biggest load of crap ever compiled on a single thread on TB".

What a bunch of misinformed comments and VOODOO crap!

I second that!!

I second that!!
and the motion is carried

I hereby nominate this thread as "the biggest load of crap ever compiled on a single thread on TB".

What a bunch of misinformed comments and VOODOO crap!

NO! There was that thread last year about how a .25" top laminate imparts specific tonality to an instrument. In good concience I can't sit idly by and let this thread take HOF pole position over that one!!

:hiding:

all the best,

R

I move for a shared prize, then.

NO! There was that thread last year about how a .25" top laminate imparts specific tonality to an instrument. In good concience I can't sit idly by and let this thread take HOF pole position over that one!!

:hiding:

all the best,

R

ESP will also use agathis on some of their basses, like the F-254 and F-255, which really pisses me off that they would do that to a bass that could be very high quality if it weren't for that wood

I have a F254 and it sound really good. Not sure which F254 or F255 you have heard but mine is good. I guess a bass sound better for you when it have been built from woods that on one side of the name can be read the word TONEWOOD and on the other side there is this: $$$$ which will came off your pocket just because that T-word.

balsa

I'm currently building a bass with an oak fingerboard.
:hiding:

It will be epoxied though.

What a bunch of misinformed comments and VOODOO crap!
Shouldn't it be WOODOOD?:confused:

just random interviews i read. his music man definitely had a basswood body and i think so does the peavey.
i also recall him saying that ash sounds $hit, but i think his charvel guitars are made of ash so..... i guess he is fickle!

anyways, my point was that there are a lot of people out there who think that basswood is a good tone wood.

Some of the stuff that comes out of these interviews, lol, better to go with your own experience (who cares what others think about it) because there is no way of validating many comments.

Shopping for sound and shopping by endorsements can be very different things. If it sounds good in the relevant context, then that's all you need - regardless of whether it's basswood or another timber, or whether it's a guitar endorsed by a certain player. There is no need to justify a sound, the sound does that already.

There are a myriad of reasons why builders choose one timber over another, it may not be for tone alone...

This copley bass has a body made of oak. I have one with an amber finish and it looks really nice. They call the oak top lace oak or something but it just looks like maple with HUGE birdseye. Very nice. It is a good bass for the price (which is actually about $250 new on ebay... ignore that retail price.)

http://www.simbaproducts.com/cgi-bin/musicstore.cgi?detail=yes&product=25

definitely needs the nut files down and the action set and you have a great playing and sounding bass.

Lacewood is also called "silky oak"... likely that is a lacewood top. That's what the (small) picture looks like, at least...

What makes you think that use of a specific wood makes an instrument of more quality that another otherwise identical one?

Because spalted balsa really IS fertilizer. :D

What makes you think that use of a specific wood makes an instrument of more quality that another otherwise identical one?



i think wheni started this thread i was thinking more in terms of build stability and strength and asthetic qualities. its interesting to see peoples opinions on tone for particular woods though. i was really hoping to see a pic or two of an attempted balsa bass build that imploded on itself though:ninja:

That's it, we should ask Larry to make an acrylized spalted balsa fingerboard!

That's it, we should ask Larry to make an acrylized spalted balsa fingerboard!

spalted balsa + adhesive = mush?

spalted balsa + adhesive = mush?
No, acrylized spalted balsa. It would probably be functionally fine, although unsaleable because of perceptions.

yeah somebody told me that the high iron content in ironwood could interfere with pickups. probly BS. so pau ferro is ironwood?

It's called iron wood because it is hard. It has no iron content.

They call the oak top lace oak or something but it just looks like maple with HUGE birdseye.

That's lace wood. Its not oak. It's sometimes called silky oak.

This is oak... figured red oak to be exact.

http://www.david-schwab.com/images/lpjoak.jpg

Oak is not often used because it's hard and heavy.

which woods are absolutely out of the question when it comes to guitar/bass building? ive heard that oak has thin, tin-like tone. ive been told that pine is too soft. supposedly ironwood has a high iron content that effects the electronics. (is this even true?)
so what is the worst wood choice for bass building? any body have any pics of bass building disasters?

There is no worst wood. Just bad designs. Oak is no harder than wenge, and pine is no softer than basswood, and both make good sounding instruments.