do you guys know any good rock bassists who don't rely on their guitarists to know what to play? i'm having trouble looking for some influence

John Paul Jones
John Entwhistle
Paul McCartney
Jack Bruce
Jack Cassidy
David Brown(of early Santana)
Peter Cetera
Harvey Brooks
etc

...all before your time, I assume. ;)

Originally posted by JimK
John Paul Jones
John Entwhistle
Paul McCartney
Jack Bruce
Jack Cassidy
David Brown(of early Santana)
Peter Cetera
Harvey Brooks
etc

...all before your time, I assume. ;)

Good list. I would add Allen Woody, Felix Pappilardi, Geezer Butler and Geddy Lee.

Me. :D

Come on guys, all these guys play root :p . What sets them apart is their ability to create lines - magic perhaps? or voodoo if you can't figure out what they are doing ;) - beyond the root.

These guys can just plain write bass lines. I can sit down and figure out the theory behind what they're doing, but wow, trying to come up with that stuff sometimes. It blows my mind how someone like McCartney can take something as simple as the A major scale and make somthing that sounds so cool. And don't even get me started on songwriting. That takes writing bass lines to the next level...

Jim

Originally posted by JaggedB
Come on guys, all these guys play root :p .
Jim

Ohhh, he meant players who don't stay on the root... :D Of course, I didn't think he meant they NEVER play the root... He could have phrased it a little better, but the meaning was clear.

Originally posted by JimK
John Paul Jones
John Entwhistle
Paul McCartney
Jack Bruce
Jack Cassidy
David Brown(of early Santana)
Peter Cetera
Harvey Brooks
etc

...all before your time, I assume. ;)

very good list, i would like to add Billy Shehan to that and Stu Hamm.

ok, first thing, whoever said that John Entwistle and John Paul Jones and all those that we previously mentioned all play root, you need to be pistol-whipped, b/c they don't, and read the first post, he said bassists that don't follow the guitarist, thank you very much. Now, on to the original purpose of this thread.

John Deacon
P-Nut
Flea
Victor Bailey
Dirk Lance
The Earth, Wind and Fire Bassist
Chi Cheng
Nikki Sixx
Tom Hamilton

Just to name a few.

Originally posted by 311fan2001
ok, first thing, whoever said that John Entwistle and John Paul Jones and all those that we previously mentioned all play root, you need to be pistol-whipped, b/c they don't, and read the first post, he said bassists that don't follow the guitarist, thank you very much. Now, on to the original purpose of this thread.

John Deacon
P-Nut
Flea
Victor Bailey
Dirk Lance
The Earth, Wind and Fire Bassist
Chi Cheng
Nikki Sixx
Tom Hamilton

Just to name a few.

Nikki Sixx? On the same list with Victor Bailey? Hmm...interesting.

I accuse everyone named thus far of playing the root, at least on occasion.

Chi Cheng? Isn't that the Deftones bassist? I thought he was a straight root player. Maybe I've missed something.

the muse bassist chris something, i dun really know but he does some cool lines but i'm not sure if its him or matt bellamy who writes them??

and dare i say it fieldy! you might not like how he plays but he does play notes and riffs and stuff and it is different to the guitars which is what he asked.:p

papa roach the bassist does sometimes follow jerry horton but not always and when he doesn't it turns out pretty cool

My two non root influences:

Justin Chancellor- Tool
Ryan Martinie- Mudvayne

Myabe a bit more than "rock"? Dunno.

Chris Wolthemstowe, MUSE. Someone knew who he was just not the last name. Yep, what a guy.

sim

Originally posted by drmike
Chris Wolthemstowe, MUSE. Someone knew who he was just not the last name. Yep, what a guy.

sim

woo! and i saw them live in manchester, aaammazing with a capital A more like Amazing :eek: :cool: :D :rolleyes:

FWIW-
I interpretted Vaz' question as wanting guys who don't merely play ROOT MOTION-
(/GG-GG-GG-GG/CC-CC-CC-CC/GG-GG-GG-GG/GG-GG-GG-GG/
/ CC-CC-CC-CC/ CC-CC-CC-CC/GG-GG-GG-GG/ etc.

...now he did say ROCK.
Victor Bailey?
Verdine White(of EW&F)?

Ultimately, looking to be influenced by people and listening to them won't really make you creative like these guys...that'll have to come from you!

Originally posted by 311fan2001
Nikki Sixx


In the Motley Crue songs I'm familiar with, he pretty much always stays on the root/follows the guitar. Can you give some examples of songs where he doesn't? I'm not trying to be critical of your choice, but would truly like to know. I've always considered him to be a fairly mediocre bass player, but would be happy to be proven wrong.

Chris Squire and Geddly Lee,
the two best rock bassists of all time,
usually never play root

playing roots is basic, all the rest is the magic. i'm pretty sure that you have had great names here, JPJ, Jack Bruce. Paul Mccartney, John Entwihstle, Geezer, Felix Pappalardi...personally i apprecite them a lot and i have learnt a lot from Felix Pappalardi, Paul Mccartney, JPJ, Jack Bruce, i have always thought that Mr. Entwhistle is an awesome bass player but he didn't influence me that much. i highly suggest you to take a listen to Andy Fraser of the band Free and the great Dennis Dunaway from the early Alice Cooper albums. they are really great players that can be a great inspiration. If you can consider a non rock player that can help you a lot in this, i highly recommend you Donald Duck Dunn of Booker T nd Blues Brother fame. he's the king. you have had a great call with Allen Woody too. Incredible talented rock bass player, sincerely missed.

i forgot to menion the great Gary Thain


http://garythain.bizland.com./

And there's this guy called Jaco Pastorius... For those of you who don't know, he's passed away now, but WOW, he had it all covered! -Some of you might say "he was not a rocker", or "No mention of Jazz players" or so but...
- Listen to his versions of Hendrix' "3rd stone from the sun", or his own "Chromatic Fantasy". -That rocks, and it's NOT "rooty" ! -He knew where the root was, and that's important, but my god, he kinda re-invented bassism BIGTIME. Check him out !! :cool:

Also, check out norwegian bassman Bent Sæther of Motorpsycho. He's left-handed, but does NOT turn around his strings... -He also does magnificent chord playing, and his sound is awesome !
Then there's always John Entwistle, Flea, Les Claypool, John Paul Jones, and some of Jack Bruce's work...

-Nikki Sixx, Duff McKagan and such are very "rooted" bassists !! No offense though, it works for their kind of music, but it's not quite my style...

Now that we have all listed bass players who don't stay on the root all the time, I think I should point out that sometimes it is better for the song to stay on the root. It depends on the song. IMO the most important thing for bass is to create a groove, and play what works for the song. We aren't there to show off and prove how many scales and modes we know. My philosophy is to ask myself "does what I'm playing make the song better?". If it doesn't then I don't play it. All of these great players we have menioned know this. Every one of them has songs they've played on where they just stay on the root. As I said, it depends on the song. If you only play the root on every song that is boring, but if you overplay in an attempt to avoid playing the root, and kill the groove in the process, then you are not playing what is right for the song. I would rather hear a bass player stay on the root and lock in tight with the drums, creating a great groove, than hear one who plays all over the fingerboard but kills the groove. And some songs demand this. A song my band plays, "Third Rock from the Sun" by Joe Diffie, has a bass line that plays 16th notes, staying on the root. This really drives the song and creates the groove that makes the song what it is. To sum up what I am trying to say: IMO the role of bass is to create a groove, and support the song, whether that means playing a complicated line, or just hanging on the root. What is best for the song should take precedence over the bass line itself.

Of course. It's not cool to avoid the root, or the 1 and 3 and so on, just to break traditional patterns! It's gotta fit in with the rest of the band ! If you break up the groove and nothing cool comes out of it, you're nothing but a real bad bassplayer, and that's not cool at all. And if you lose the root, you might end up playing something completely "wrong"...
-Still, expanding tonality, twisting and altering groove and rythm and such, that's what makes music progress! If you don't dare to try, you'll never be able to come up with something new, and eventually, you, the rest of the band and the audience will get bored...
-This thread is going towards a "general instruction" thread, isn't it? ;)

May I mention
Mr. Steve Harris

In defence of Chi Cheng, he doesn't treally play complicated lines at all but they are usually not just the roots. He fills out the song with some uncommon intervals making some cool chords. Definatly not roots. well for the most part at least.

Travis

I can't belive no one has mentioned Robert DeLeo. He has awesome basslines, and doesnt root that much, except on the harder stuff.

Originally posted by Christopher
I accuse everyone named thus far of playing the root, at least on occasion.

i don't hear Flea playing root notes, but i don't have every cd but on the ones i have his dosn't.

Originally posted by godsmack


i don't hear Flea playing root notes, but i don't have every cd but on the ones i have his dosn't.

How about the very well known intro/main riff to "Higher Ground", ALL root/octave. Let me say it again, EVERYONE plays root notes. If you never play root notes, as you imply about Flea, it would sound very strange....

Originally posted by godsmack


i don't hear Flea playing root notes, but i don't have every cd but on the ones i have his dosn't.

Flea plays root all the time ! Listen to songs like "Give it away", "Mellowship", "Aeroplane", "Warped" etc...
He stays on the root, but in their kind of music you need to have the root defined in order to provide tonal gravity. He also does so many funky licks and stuff, that he might sound off root, but... On the "Californication" record he plays a somewhat more melodic bass, but he doesn't challenge tonality enough to be called an "Off-root" player... Yet, Don't get me wrong; Flea is probably the baddest mutha of every living bassplayer !! I love him !!!
Besides, you're not "uncool" if you occasionally hit the root! Listen to the bassline of Stevie Wonder's "Superstition". It's nothing but root, and only on 1 & 3. Yet it's about the most groovy, cool bassline ever !!


GEDDIT ? :cool:

Flea does play some root notes. Listen to Suck my kiss. The bass line is fairly similar to the guitar.

Originally posted by Raymondn1
And there's this guy called Jaco Pastorius... Check him out !! :cool:

I don't intend to go all Old Fart on you Ray but some of us were listenin' to this cat the day you were born...

And thanx, Barroso, for the Thain plug. He's probably my main influence. It would have been great to hear what he would have come up with while playing an extended range instrument, wouldn't it?

Originally posted by Hambone


I don't intend to go all Old Fart on you Ray but some of us were listenin' to this cat the day you were born...



-Yeah, I'm sure you did, but many of the other bassmen who reads this forum are even younger than me (imagine that ! ), and it wouldn't do any harm to pass Jaco on to them as well, would it? -Besides, I can't help not being born, say 15 years earlier, can I? -I must say I owe a lot to the old guys. I find music from the 60's and 70's much more progressive and artistic than most newer stuff.
Still, it's very frustrating when older musicians kinda cut me out for being too young. -I know good music when I hear it, and I think I'm entitled to like whatever kind of music I want, regardless of my age !!! -That's what keeps the old ones still going strong isn't it? I know my history, that's all. :cool:

Originally posted by istaticl
I can't belive no one has mentioned Robert DeLeo. He has awesome basslines, and doesnt root that much, except on the harder stuff.
DITTO!

DeLeo is the man, as well as Colin Moulding (XTC) and Colin Greenwood (Radiohead).

Originally posted by Raymondn1


-Yeah, I'm sure you did, but many of the other bassmen who reads this forum are even younger than me (imagine that ! ), and it wouldn't do any harm to pass Jaco on to them as well, would it? -Besides, I can't help not being born, say 15 years earlier, can I? -I must say I owe a lot to the old guys. I find music from the 60's and 70's much more progressive and artistic than most newer stuff.
Still, it's very frustrating when older musicians kinda cut me out for being too young. -I know good music when I hear it, and I think I'm entitled to like whatever kind of music I want, regardless of my age !!! -That's what keeps the old ones still going strong isn't it? I know my history, that's all. :cool:

Keep yer panties on Ray, Geez. Nobody has shown you disrespect or cut you for being too young. If you'll read your post - especially like I did - you'll see that your post talks about Jaco like he was some unknown and you've just discovered him playing in some dive. That's what I was pokin' fun at. And where did anyone blast you for the type of music you like?? Take the chip off your shoulder and have some fun. Your enthusiasm could be infectious to others of your age but you should light'n up a little with the attitude.

Sure... I wasn't really angry, just thought you considered I didn't know "the real deal" since I'm too young too have actually experienced Jaco...
-The reason why I wrote "this guy called Jaco..." was the fact that a thread about rock bassist who don't play root might as well could have been a thread about Jaco only, yet he wasn't mentioned at all in the other posts... -That kinda made me wonder if they kids knew their history. By the way, I have a great time nowadays, playing a funk-rock trio and some jazz gigs. I think I have a light and humorous attitude towards music and life, and hope people understand my ironic and sarcastic undertones...;)

-Great signature, do you mind if I quote it on my homepage?

I can't claim to have thought it up so I guess you can use it if you'd like.

I think it's great that someone as young as you are is giving the "masters" their due. I think that if more young players would do that, there would be less worship of some of the current players that don't seem to be in it for the music.

Got anything we can listen to?

Brian Marshall, former Creed bassist. No hitting, please.

can't believe nobody mentioned Sting.

Lemmy? Well, his basslines are much like their guitars', but then again I think guitars rather follow his playing than vice versa.. ;)

Percy Jones

HOW DARE ANYONE MENTION LEMMY ON A BASS FORUM!!
(hehehe...)

Tony Levin

Yes, but what about Geddy Lee?? Oh man, I could listen to him for hours....such sweet bass playing. I would recomend some of Rush's live albums. Geddy tends to hold back in the studio, but on stage he sure let's it all out.

I haven't really studdied this dood much.. it sounds like he usses distortion.. there are some of there songs for sure that are out of root... like he's simple ... but he dont follow guitar...
im more of like the rhythm dood in our "band" if you like to say that.. cause its like we have one guitarist which plays lead and i play rhythm on bass.. what would that be? would that be root? its nothing super complex like jaco but its not like 4 note stuff either?
does this typa stuff count?
sorry for getting off subject yall..
lemmy ... i love lemmy =*smiles evily* First song i ever learned was Ace of Spades..

Originally posted by pc
Percy Jones Rock? Maybe...

Sam Rivers- Limp Bizkit. Well, Just a few songs anyway, counterfeit, nookie, re-arranged, My way aswell as a few other songs that i havent mentioned. Oh yeah and the guy from Grinspoon (Aussie band) strays off a bit. :D























Have I opened up a hornets nest?? :D

might this help?
http://www.johnentwistle.com/images/bass2kscans.html
:hyper: :hyper:

pardon my total n00bness, but what eaxctly is playing root? I'm guessing it's pretty much just playing the root note of the guitarist...but then again, don't most players play root every now and then? If this is the case, I'm sure no punk bassists apply here...

This thread is odd. I don't know a single bass player who doesn't play root notes.

This should die.

Any bass player who doesn't play the root is not much of a bass player.

The bassist HAS to play the roots... I mean, it is the bassist's job to play the foundation of the song, right? IMHO You can't do that if you're just playing whatever the hell you feel like. I don't know of any bassists who never play root notes...

The bassist HAS to play the roots... I mean, it is the bassist's job to play the foundation of the song, right? IMHO You can't do that if you're just playing whatever the hell you feel like. I don't know of any bassists who never play root notes...


+1, I think most the bassists mentioned are rock bassists and they at least touch on the roots or pass over them in thier runs. I feel you need to look outside rock to see bass players that truely do not utilize roots very much, like jazz bassists.

pardon my total n00bness, but what eaxctly is playing root? I'm guessing it's pretty much just playing the root note of the guitarist...but then again, don't most players play root every now and then? If this is the case, I'm sure no punk bassists apply here...

you pretty much answered your own question

I've rarely seen such a silly post. As if playing the root of a chord is bad. Oy.

Anything I choose to play can be the root. It's not a chord until the bassist decides what chord it is. The guitarist may think he's playing Em7. Not when I put a C as the root and make him play a lovely Cmaj7 add 9.

Bassists control the harmony. Think about that. There will be times when playing a C as above will be wonderful. And there are times when it would suck, and you should just play the E. Know when. With great power comes great responsibility.

Percy Jones

not sure you can call his stuff rock hes more a fusion jazz player but i recomende him to anyone he is a fantastic player

Anything I choose to play can be the root. It's not a chord until the bassist decides what chord it is. The guitarist may think he's playing Em7. Not when I put a C as the root and make him play a lovely Cmaj7 add 9.

Bassists control the harmony. Think about that. There will be times when playing a C as above will be wonderful. And there are times when it would suck, and you should just play the E. Know when. With great power comes great responsibility.

Everybody read that post again. Good one, Lyle.

A masterful example would be Brian Wilson (and later, the session bassists who followed his charts - afaik they played pretty much exactly what he told them to play).

My main bass teacher was a jazz/rock guitarist. I didn't like everything about working with him but he really got me thinking about how radically different chords can sound depending on what bass note you play, for which I am forever grateful.

The mighty Jack Blades from Night Ranger (LOL! Kidding!)

How about Steve DiGiorgio. He's pretty death metal, but I fine fretless player none the less. Not much root playing with him.

I'm surprised I haven't seen James Jamerson yet. I also think Stefan Lessard should be mentionned here.

mark hoppus (joke)

billy sheahan , les claypool , john myung

Brian Marshall, former Creed bassist. No hitting, please.

hes a good bassist , i liked creed.

8th note roots are sometimes the best thing to play... I don't ACDC would be as effective with a 'Jacoesque' bass thing going on

and sometimes doubling your guitarist note for note is the right thing to do...

How about Clayton Ingerson of Dysrhythmia. He does some killer lines.

I also really like James LoMenzo (Black Label Society, David Lee Roth, Hideous Sun Demons) and the Hideous Sun Demons album has some terrific bass work.

Have you ever seen the late 50s or early 60s B horror movie The Hideous Sun Demon? It's a hoot. Kind of a reverse werewolf thing. Guy turns into a lizard man while retaining his button down shirt and chinos when out in the sun too long. Mad dogs, Englishmen and Hideous Sun Demons should stay out of the midday sun. Guess they didn't have sunscreen back then. Great band name. Anyway, I think this thread brings up a lot of issues. I would concur with most names that have been brought up. I would also agree that the root is not necessarily the root of all evil. Sometimes complicated is just that: complicated. It's less about the note than the feel, really. John Paul Jones--great, but the first Zep recording is almost all riffing and unison lines, and a lot of root, fifth, octave stuff. And there's nothing less valuable about that than his part in What Is And What Should Never Be or other tunes where he really stretches. I value players who create memorable lines, parts that are both rhymically interesting and melodically compelling. McCartney, Lee, Squire, Bruce, Glenn Cornick of Tull, the guys with Alice Cooper and Uriah Heep, which other posters have noted, were all great in that era, as were King Crimson bassists like Greg Lake, Boz and John Wetton. Grab some 70s King Crimson with Wetton if you want some killer bass (Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Starless and Bible Black, Red). In the 80s, the guys who played with Elvis Costello and Joe Jackson were always terrific (names are escaping me at the moment). How about Tim Bogert? A bass player in a trio like Rush or Beck, Bogert and Appice has more room to move around in. Tony Levin is always great, even though a lot of things he did with KC and Gabriel are on Stick. With bands of recent or current vintage, I like what the bass player in Hot Hot Heat does. Some cool parts there. Keep listening. There are lot of inventive players out there who aren't necessarily of the chops-for-chops sake school of thought.

no comment on the root debate other then it's just plain silly :rollno:

with that...I'll add Phil Lesh to the list of out of the box players :)

I don't know about your guitarist, but some of the ones I've played with get lost if you don't give them a foundation.
So I had to hit root occasionly just to keep them in line. :hiding:

well.. you always start on the root note for each chord change, you have to or else it will sound bad and out of key, so everyone plays the Root note? its what that does come after the first note that counts :p geddy lee and such always use the root note before executing the line.. me think, or else it will sound bad.. and one thing i DO know is that rush doesnt sound bad..:D

no comment on the root debate other then it's just plain silly :rollno:


You are sooooo right. I'm gonna close this thread and pretend it never happened :ninja:

:hiding: