Hunting and pecking for the notes I hear in my head is really interfering with my creativity and spontaneity. So I searched for posts about this and after reading many posts, I noticed many here suggest one of two approaches to playing by ear: learn the intervals or learn the notes "contextually" (aka functional ear training).

First I learned all the intervals (ascending and descending) using the Earope ear trainer software. I learned with the help of familiar songs (Star Wars for P5, NBC theme for P6, etc...). Unfortunately when I'm transcribing simple songs (ex. Happy Birthday) as an exercise, I can't make use of the intervals I learned to deconstruct the song into intervals. My brain has a meltdown from having the melody in my mind, listening for the intervals between the each note, then hearing for the familiar songs (ex. Star Wars, NBC theme) in order to identify the intervals. Is this how other people do it too, or am doing it the wrong way?

Once I hit the wall with intervals, I learned to identify pitch contextually using the "Functional Ear Trainer" software. Unfortunately, I'm stuck again when I transcribe songs - it's weird, outside of the software exercises I can't hear the pitch of a melody in the context of a scale in order to pick it apart.

In both cases, the software's exercise were easier to master than to apply it to real songs. I'm going to keep trying even though I feel stuck in the mud, but I would appreciate it if someone experienced can offer some hints and tips for getting unstuck.

Thanks.

Why not play what you hear on an instrument then write down the corresponding note, you don't have to be able to hear the whole thing then write it down before you even play it. Listen > Play > Write. Or is that what you are trying to avoid? The more you do it the better you get and soon you won't need to hunt 'n' peck as you put it, you'll just hear the shape and be able to play it.

I shouldn't have used the word "transcribed". My intention is strictly to play (not write) what I hear whether it's my own improv or a well-known song. Sorry for the confusion.

Can someone reveal to me what they did (step by step) when they learned how to play what they heard in their head? Did intervals helped? How did you apply intervals to playing by ear?

I'm interested in other people's experiences that lead them to be able to play by ear. Were there "eureka" moments that made all the difference?

Thanks.

I find if I do it two bars or so at a time (depending on speed of the tune), and either hum the part back to myself or make sure It's stuck in my head, its much easier. I'll find the first note and go from there.

Why not play what you hear on an instrument then write down the corresponding note, you don't have to be able to hear the whole thing then write it down before you even play it. Listen > Play > Write. Or is that what you are trying to avoid? The more you do it the better you get and soon you won't need to hunt 'n' peck as you put it, you'll just hear the shape and be able to play it.

That's very interesting to me that you hear the shape and can play it. It sounds to me that being able to visualize the motion of the melody helps then?

I can relate to this, and I think most others can too if they tell the truth. My ears used to be horrible and even though I did well in ear training class through college, I still had a lot of problems 'hearing' my way through a gig. Things that always have and continue to help my ears grow are transcription (big help), singing, ear training exercises at the piano (singing intervals, chords, arpegios, scales, etc...), books (David Baker has a good jazz ear training book).

However, nothing really made my ears grow as much as putting myself in musical situations where I was forced to hear stuff on the fly. For me in paticular it has been a combination of faking my way through jazz standards I don't know (on relaxed, low-key gigs of course) and doing a black gospel gig a a baptist church. The gospel gig REALLY helped me a lot because:
1) I have NEVER gotten any written music or even a chord chart
2) I rarely get a CD in advance
3) I regurally have to play songs I don't know and have never heard

...this can be really rough at first but eventually it just makes you stronger. Obviously this isn't something you want to do if you can help it, and you should always learn the music for a gig...If you can. However, a lot of local gigs require you to 'just wing it,' and while this is loose and sometime not "professional," doing these kind of gigs really helps you build your survival skills.

It also helps to do this at home while practicing with some recordings, but nothing beats the pressure you get having to do it on a gig in front of people.

Try losing the song trick when identifying intervals, it's not of much use (apart from starting out) like you discovered yourself. You want to get to the point where you can just go: "Ah, augmented 4", or "major 6". Also descending intervals (people often skip that one).
The functional hearing is even better. To broaden this, try to hear the melody note as a function within the chord (is it the root, 5th, flat 6th or whatever of the current chord).

But most important: Be patient! It's difficult stuff, it takes years. Keep on working, and it will come.

It's not a fast process and transcribing is the process to get you there. You have to start real slow two note, three notes, five notes. Doing simple melodies to build of the ear to recognize intervals and then melodic fragments. Do you know the basic's of sight-singing use numbers of solfeggi and start singing all the bass lines you know already. If you can sing you bass lines in numbers that will help build that association between notes and scale degrees and intervals. Also transcribe simple melodies likes children's songs. Transcribe them vocally with numbers or solfeggi then check on your bass. You have to teach yourself to play the one of the key and then sing up to the note your looking for. You have to practice singing scales up to the 9th or 10th and down to the 5th below.

It is a slow process in the beginning but you need the foundation of hearing, seeing, singing, and finally playing intervals and melodies. Find another musician who want to work on their ear and sit and play intervals and melodies to each other to figure out. Best to find a keyboard player so you can learn to hear the piano.

This doesn't happen over night it takes daily practice and singing.

... nothing beats the pressure you get having to do it on a gig in front of people.

Just as I suspected and feared: that some woodsheddin' was needed for me to make sense of it all. I was a mediocre touch typist (hunt 'n pecked half of the time) until I was under the pressure of a real job after I got out of college.

Thanks for sharing.

Try losing the song trick when identifying intervals, it's not of much use (apart from starting out) like you discovered yourself. You want to get to the point where you can just go: "Ah, augmented 4", or "major 6". Also descending intervals (people often skip that one).
The functional hearing is even better. To broaden this, try to hear the melody note as a function within the chord (is it the root, 5th, flat 6th or whatever of the current chord).

But most important: Be patient! It's difficult stuff, it takes years. Keep on working, and it will come.

This is all too true: the song trick is getting in the way now. How do you break free from it and be able to identify the intervals for what they are instead of being the first two notes of a melody? For example, is it better to sing up/down the scale (using solfege) to the target note in order to get a better sense of the distance and be able to say "ah, that's a maj 6"? Or is there a better way?

Thanks.

[Edited]
I guess DocBop addressed my questions above. Groovy, please feel free to share your own insights.

It seems time spent on the interval ear trainer should of been spent actually transcribing songs. Would anyone else agree?

""It seems time spent on the interval ear trainer should of been spent actually transcribing songs. Would anyone else agree?""

Yeah. In the end, I just hunt for the notes. It's gotten easier over the years, so I guess at some level I'm "hearing the intervals" though I can't tell you what they are until AFTER I've figured the melody or changes out and "transcribed" them. I still sometimes have problems: I tend to guess the 5th for the root if the recording has muddier bass or just a lot of low end.

It seems time spent on the interval ear trainer should of been spent actually transcribing songs. Would anyone else agree?

Actually I spent a fair amount of time playing along with motown recordings by hunting and pecking for the right notes. I would guess the general vicinity of the pitch on the fretboard, then sharpen or flat it until I got the matching note. That's the only effective way I know how to play by ear.

After a couple years of that, I've gotten faster at the art of hunting and pecking, but it just strikes me as being very inefficient and disappointing especially considering that I've heard others doing the same and ended up with the ability to play by ear without have to hunt and peck.

That's why I started looking into learning intervals and functional ear training. I understand that transcribing is writing the music down on paper, but I don't understand how it can make less reliant on the hunt and peck "habit" that I'm trying to overcome.

Please enlighten me.

Thanks.

Sing, sing, sing.

Imitate.

;)

Yeah, I'm already singing the melody - it's the only way for me to commit and recall from memory.

For someone like me who isn't naturally talented and can't make the connection between mind and instrument easily, I need concrete and unambiguous suggestions. So I'm greatful to brianh, groovy, and docbop for your well thought out responses.

It looks like I'm going to have to take up more in-depth solfege singing, take it slowly, continue it for years, put myself on the spot, and hope for the best.

Thanks y'all!

...considering that I've heard others doing the same and ended up with the ability to play by ear without have to hunt and peck.

These people have a lot of experience doing what they do. Bass lines tend to follow predictable patterns and progressions. After you've experience a ton of these, you'll be able to pick them up easier too.

Don't assume that other people have this hidden "talent". That may be true in some cases; but in most cases, I'm going to say that it comes from experience.

Keep pushing yourself, but please be patient.

Joe

I find if I do it two bars or so at a time (depending on speed of the tune), and either hum the part back to myself or make sure It's stuck in my head, its much easier. I'll find the first note and go from there.

+1

I also can get a good feel for the shape of the fingering after practicing each part a few times, so when I hear something similar I have a good idea where to start and what the new chord shape will be like. It also helps with tying multiple chord shapes together.

I can only play by ear. I can't read music fluently enough to be successful with it. (Old-Dog-New-Trix-Syndrome)

It's like anything though..."Do it till you get it & then do it again" It's called ROTE memorization. You train your ear by mechanical routine.

It can be done and you can surely do it.

You could try simpler music. Start with old country or blues songs. I joined a country jam. Not knowing the songs forces you learn to listen.

And there are tricks. For example, in country music the II almost always goes to the V. You can also watch the guitar players hands for chord shapes (I am trying to get away from this now except for gigs).

Yeah, I'm already singing the melody - it's the only way for me to commit and recall from memory.


Sing the bass line then transcribe from your singing. That pulls the voice-brain-fretboard relationship together.

What you are probably going to find with all of these suggestions is that they may be able to give you different approaches to playing by ear, but most likely nothing will suddenly cause you to "get it". It's an on going process that lasts your whole life. If something does cause you to make a huge breakthrough, then you probably already had the abilities and just hadn't found the right path of getting it through your head.

You seem smart enough to know this though. I guess this is for anyone reading hoping for a sure fire way to make it happen quickly.

The only way to learn this is by doing. The more you do, the more you learn. It mostly boils down to how much investment one is willing to put into working on the things they don't want to like ear training or scales.

There is more than one way to skin a cat though. Different people learn differently and it's good to find which way your mind functions in relation to music. Some guys are visual (like me) and see shapes and patterns easily. Some guys think better in terms of intervals and numbers. Could be a combination of things too.

2 am rantings aren't as much fun to read the next day.

Playing by ear, unless you are told a key up front, is ALWAYS a hunt and peck affair. Well, unless you are one of those lucky fools gifted with the ability to honestly recognize exact pitches. All that happens is that, over time, lots and lots and lots of time, the time it takes to hunt and peck gets less and less. I have helped host a lot of blues jams over the past four years and so have heard a LOT of songs in the keys of A and E and slow blues in G. So what is the key I can most often recognize after hearing just the first chord strummed? D. Makes no damn sense to me, hoss, but that is how it turned out.

If you get told the key and the starting chord (not always the I chord), then it pretty much comes down to two things: how well you hear intervals (I practice that every single day, regardless if I work on anything else) and how well you know standard song structures (most genres of music have "patterns" to them). Again, at first, it is fumbling around that gets you through. Over time, and with a lot of practice, you get better at your "guesses" and you hit more right notes than wrong.

In the end, there are no short cuts or quick fixes--playing by ear comes down to nothing more than practice and experience.

Really good thread! What really helped me to develop my ear is transcribing loads of songs, basslines, solos, melodies, the works. Interval training is really good as well, or chord progression training. The situation in which you learn the most are the ones where you feel the least comfortable being in.

Playing in jamsessions is a good example. Often I get asked by someone to do a show or a recording and I just have to figure out the songs they play on the spot while playing (usually during a rehearsal). That is something that can get me really nervous but already helped me loads in improving my ear.

Something else I've been doing lately is just turning on the radio and playing along to the songs that are broadcasted. Patterns get obvious after a while and it's a great way to get to know new music haha.

I'm nowhere near where I want to be yet, but I've seen drastic improvements just doing the things I've listed above. I hope they make sense and can be of help to you or anyone else who reads this.

Try not to let failure get you down for too long. It can be really harsh to just screw something up completely in front of other people or sometimes even just when you're by yourself, but be sure to remember you'll certainly do better next time.


~ Dennis

I agree to the jammin with bandmates and playing to the radio approach. Both helped me early on learn to hear chord changes and feel for notes in my head and then translate it to my hands. Ya sometimes its a pure guess but it is right more time then not when you continue to do this and practice playing with diffrent music.
I find now i dont get lost much if i get off track since i feel changes better and like said on here there are only so many notes and most major music today repeats the patterns done over and over for years. Get these in your head in the grey matter and it will be recalled when you hear it...but it takes time and practice.

This is all too true: the song trick is getting in the way now. How do you break free from it and be able to identify the intervals for what they are instead of being the first two notes of a melody? For example, is it better to sing up/down the scale (using solfege) to the target note in order to get a better sense of the distance and be able to say "ah, that's a maj 6"? Or is there a better way?

Thanks.

[Edited]
I guess DocBop addressed my questions above. Groovy, please feel free to share your own insights.


There are a few exercises I use that helped me a lot:

-Transcribing. Sometimes with, sometimes without an instrument. Also when listening to songs try to make a mental transcription, identify intervals and functions, and translate them to fretboard shapes.
Sometimes the whole song, sometimes just a part, sometimes the melody and sometimes the bassline, and sometimes just forget all that crap and enjoy the music :)

-Earmaster software. I love this program, I used it for intervals in the past but now mostly for chord types. To get rid of the "song trick" it might help to start with harmonic intervals, by wich I mean that the 2 notes are played at the same time. First you get better at estimating the 'gap' between them, later you can tell exactly how far they're apart = the interval. The rest of it is just a big load of trial and error (woodshedding!)

-Cubase has this midi-effect which changes a pitch to a random pitch. I just import a midi file which is 1000 times the note f. Then I apply the random-filter and press play. What you get is an almost endless stream of random quarter notes (I do set the range of possible notes to about 1,5 octave so I don't get ridiculous jumps). Put the tempo slow, and just try to hit each note on the bass right after it sounds. if you want to, name the interval also. Repeat for 100 years and check progress :)

Especially this last one is a really 'basic' exercise but is great to develop your sound-to-grip instinct. I noticed that some intervals were easy for me, but that I got lost with the big ones (major & minor 7th). So then I started listening extra carefully for those ones, and after a week of doing this 15 minutes a day it got a lot better. Still far from perfect though after 2 years.

You can also set it faster for more difficulty, or mimic bigger groups of notes (=actually 4 notes melodies for example).

For the mac there's a program called 'follow me' which does the same (easier to use actually).

-Last exercise: Sit down at the piano. Play a chord in the left hand. Close your eyes, and drop a finger from the other hand somewhere on the keyboard. Name the function as fast as possible (major 3rd for example). Pick another chord, best very unrelated (if the first chord was Fmaj7, go to Abm7b5 or something, or a different major 7 chord). I often stay on the same chord type for a while, esp halfdim chords an ambiguous chords like 7(b5) can be tricky.

These people have a lot of experience doing what they do. Bass lines tend to follow predictable patterns and progressions. After you've experience a ton of these, you'll be able to pick them up easier too.

Don't assume that other people have this hidden "talent". That may be true in some cases; but in most cases, I'm going to say that it comes from experience.

Keep pushing yourself, but please be patient.

Joe

When I read old threads where people mentioned how learning intervals or contextual ear training really helped, unfortunately since they didn't provide a whole lot of detail, I was mistaken to think it was the last major hurdle to overcome (or so it was my hope).

Now that it's drilled into me that there's much more time to be spent on practice and woodshedding beyond the ear training, I'm getting the bigger picture. I have the patience and the drive (I can play what I hear now after years of only sheet music and tab), but now I have the perspective too.

Thank you all for the tips and perspective.

Learning as many chord progressions and bass lines as you can will certianly help. When you lean a progression to a song, think about how it works (and for me it helps to think of it in terms of I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi....etc rather than C, d-, e-, etc....). Then maybe try it in various keys. So many pop/jazz tunes have similar chord progressions it really pays off to do this.

A great pianist also once told me "study how music moves," i.e. how to get from chord to chord. So, think about the common ways to get from I to vi, or I to IV, and so on....Then it's kind of about identifying what you know and connecting dots.

There are a few exercises I use that helped me a lot:

-Transcribing. Sometimes with, sometimes without an instrument. Also when listening to songs try to make a mental transcription, identify intervals and functions, and translate them to fretboard shapes.
Sometimes the whole song, sometimes just a part, sometimes the melody and sometimes the bassline, and sometimes just forget all that crap and enjoy the music :)

-Earmaster software. I love this program, I used it for intervals in the past but now mostly for chord types. To get rid of the "song trick" it might help to start with harmonic intervals, by wich I mean that the 2 notes are played at the same time. First you get better at estimating the 'gap' between them, later you can tell exactly how far they're apart = the interval. The rest of it is just a big load of trial and error (woodshedding!)

-Cubase has this midi-effect which changes a pitch to a random pitch. I just import a midi file which is 1000 times the note f. Then I apply the random-filter and press play. What you get is an almost endless stream of random quarter notes (I do set the range of possible notes to about 1,5 octave so I don't get ridiculous jumps). Put the tempo slow, and just try to hit each note on the bass right after it sounds. if you want to, name the interval also. Repeat for 100 years and check progress :)

Especially this last one is a really 'basic' exercise but is great to develop your sound-to-grip instinct. I noticed that some intervals were easy for me, but that I got lost with the big ones (major & minor 7th). So then I started listening extra carefully for those ones, and after a week of doing this 15 minutes a day it got a lot better. Still far from perfect though after 2 years.

You can also set it faster for more difficulty, or mimic bigger groups of notes (=actually 4 notes melodies for example).

For the mac there's a program called 'follow me' which does the same (easier to use actually).

-Last exercise: Sit down at the piano. Play a chord in the left hand. Close your eyes, and drop a finger from the other hand somewhere on the keyboard. Name the function as fast as possible (major 3rd for example). Pick another chord, best very unrelated (if the first chord was Fmaj7, go to Abm7b5 or something, or a different major 7 chord). I often stay on the same chord type for a while, esp halfdim chords an ambiguous chords like 7(b5) can be tricky.

Coolness! This is the type of responses I had hope for when I started the thread.

I suspected that learning harmonic intervals would help and have practiced it off and on. Now I'll do it more often since I really, really need to lessen my reliance on the song trick.

Thanks for the detailed suggestions. They're all very creative ideas and on target with what I'm trying to accomplish.