I have questions about proper DB standing position that my teacher can't answer. My teacher informs me that the proper classical standing position is behind the bass. My teacher is very short with a pot belly so he stands beside the bass out of necessity, and can't therefore instruct me on how to stand behind the bass. He therefore encourages me to find the position most comfortable to me.

1) Standing beside: I feel more comfortable standing beside the bass mainly because I can press the upper rear surface of the bass boddy against my torso near my left hip bone. This allows me to restrict the pivoting that can take place on the axis described by line between the left hand on the neck and the end pin.

2) Standing behind: I feel this position has merit because I can feel the vibrations from the bass where it rests against my chest and this helps with my intonation. But this position is uncomfortable because I don't know how to restrict the "pivoting" described above and because it is difficult to reach to bow the G string. I'm interested in overcoming these problems by learning the proper technique, if such technique is available to address these issues.

Questions:
a) How does one properly hold the bass when standing behind, in particular preventing the bass from pivoting?
b) Do most orchestral players stand behind the bass? Or, alternatively, is it common for orchestral players to stand beside?

BTW, I understand stools are often used. For various reasons, a stool will not be practical for me.

Thank you!

Short people have the lower part of the bass close to the ground and can prevent the turning by touching the tip of the foot to the bass ribs (check pictures in the Streicher method). Taller people cannot do that, the bas has to be elevated to much to touch the it with the toe. One method I have seen is using a guitar foot rest to bring the left knee against the back of the bass to stop the turning. An other method is used with the Eminece e-bass, it has something like a T end to prevent the bass from turning.
But most players I know stand beside the bass, that is the easiest way not only for big bellied people, but for tall ones as well. If they play only pizz, the whole side of the bass is touching there bodies giving a secure stand and the bass can easily move in sync with the body. If using a bow, usually only the back edge of the side is touching the body to enable access of the bow to the E string.

I have questions about proper DB standing position that my teacher can't answer. My teacher informs me that the proper classical standing position is behind the bass. My teacher is very short with a pot belly so he stands beside the bass out of necessity, and can't therefore instruct me on how to stand behind the bass. He therefore encourages me to find the position most comfortable to me.

1) Standing beside: I feel more comfortable standing beside the bass mainly because I can press the upper rear surface of the bass boddy against my torso near my left hip bone. This allows me to restrict the pivoting that can take place on the axis described by line between the left hand on the neck and the end pin.

2) Standing behind: I feel this position has merit because I can feel the vibrations from the bass where it rests against my chest and this helps with my intonation. But this position is uncomfortable because I don't know how to restrict the "pivoting" described above and because it is difficult to reach to bow the G string. I'm interested in overcoming these problems by learning the proper technique, if such technique is available to address these issues.

Questions:
a) How does one properly hold the bass when standing behind, in particular preventing the bass from pivoting?
b) Do most orchestral players stand behind the bass? Or, alternatively, is it common for orchestral players to stand beside?

BTW, I understand stools are often used. For various reasons, a stool will not be practical for me.

Thank you!


Hi!
You and Ludwig have opened a real can of worms. In fact, use a can of worms to hold the bass!! :) (joking, I think!).
For someone who has been "brought up" in a certain approach, no manner of obvious verbiage is going to have them look at the issue anew. Only by actually experiencing a new way of doing something, can one truly be convinced that he/she needs to look at a change. I was a sitting player for 25 years (I started on cello so it was natural to move to sitting with the bass). But, frankly, the bass is an ackwardly shaped instrument (all string instruments are) in that we must contort our natural stance(s) and positions to accomodate the bass. I, on the other hand, prefer the attitude that the bass must conform to our physique (please read previous threads). Meaning, we must have the correct SIZE of bass. For some of us short but big ego-ed people, a smaller bass is unthinkable. But I had to do it because in order to play comfortably and pain-free, I had to rid myself of the attitude that big was best and that I had to somehow adapt to the instrument. With all this said, for me, standing was the way to focus on my BOW and create a larger pallette of musical colors and nuances. Remember that the BOW or PIZZ makes the music, not the left hand (other than vibrato and pitch) and if you really want to be expressive, the sound must be your primary focus. That is not to say that one must ignore striving to play in tune. But you will find that if you focus on the bow, pitch gets better and easier to reproduce, while having a great set of color-tools.
Okay, so what's this got to do with the stance? EVERYTHING. If you are not comfortable with standing, perhaps sitting will work for you. But standing offers many more ways (IMHO) to create colors and to apply natural body/arm weight...which, again for me, is the WAY I like to produce sound. Pressing into the bass is not my sound, so sitting I do not do because with my bass, I must press when sitting due to the angle of the body/bow to bass.

I never advocate holding the bass with anything other than where it contacts the torso and your left thumb. The idea of using a foot (alla Streicher) or a contraption of any kind, really scares me, for it contorts the body or reduces the vibrations of the bass. If you want to play a LONG time (I have now for 40 years) you need to find a way that the repetition of movement does not wear you down with tendonitis or other ailment (again see previous threads on this).

The spinning: With a bent endpin - standing, there is likely to be more of this spinning feelling. But the pin aleviates so many other woes, the spin is not a big deal and you can isolate it to only when plying on the high E string. Just be sure you are bending (when going to higher registers and on the E string for sure) not at the upper back but at your waist, keeping back straight. This keeps contact of your torso with the bass' rib edge. If the rib edge contacts you at the waist (for some on the inside of the left hip bone, for others a bit higher on the belly) you can easily control all balance issues of the bass with your HIPS, not your arms, hands, palms, fingers (other than the THUMB).

To be off to the side of the bass introduces many stresses on the left arm/hand. Some people work it out okay because of their arm length. For me, a stance that is slightly to the right of the bass allows heavy bow use with no strain on my left arm... however, there is NO ONE POSITION that works for all passages and registers. You must allow flexibility, movement, and transfer of weight (mostly on both feet equally, but sometimes on one or the other for transfer of weight in those directions if needed...say a very loud low E string passage where a lot of weight is needed in the bow, I might put weight towards the right foot).

So to conclude a bit: spinning is easily controlled IF you KEEP CONTACT of the bass to your waist/hips. Don't hold the bass with anything other than your waist and thumb, because if you do many other "issues" can be introduced - like pain, over-use syndrome, lack of flexibility, and slowness at getting "those fast notes" because your are too busy holding up the bass. Most people have trouble when LH is traversing the Grey Area (around the neck-block). This balance is EASILY controlled by the hips. Sitting of course allows the LH to do its thing with ease, but USUALLY with a sacrifice in sound. This is not true for some players who are large enough to get over the bass with their weight/arms (Jeff Bradetich is an example or Hal Robinson). But for me, a BIG DIFFERENCE in sound quality and volume is heard when I move from sitting to standing. And now standing does not bother my LH. I actually feel more comfortable standing with the LH than sitting, because I can move greater distances, faster, using the natural momentum of weight/mass and gravity, over the bass' angle/stance. It is all quite interesting.

Finally, your teacher CAN be the best judge to see if this is all working for you comfortably, but MAY NOT be. You should use a mirror extensively to see what is natural to you. Beware of the attitude that some WAY must be PROPER. What works well for you is what you are after. Lots of swinging of the arms helps find the balance. More in one of my master classes!
best to you!
Patrick:hyper:

Thank you! This eliminates a lot of confusion I had when I found all sorts of videos and still images of DB players using different standing postures. My daughter plays violin, where the use of different instrument sizes for different body sizes is common, ability to play without fatigue is the number one consideration there. I don't understand why that practice isn't more prevalent in DB--it does seem that 3/4 is the "target" size. Perhaps a smaller bass would be better for me.

I have a French bow but realized that I can move further behind the bass and still be able to comfortably bow the G string if I hold the bow German style (I know it's unorthodox to use a French bow this way, but I try it from time to time as I consider whether I should pick up a German bow--I'm still feeling out all these issues.) This makes me wonder if my most comfortable standing position may also be related to what bowing style I settle on.

In any case, it's good to know that I won't be incorporating a bad habit by moving around and trying different things in different circumstances, to find what works best. My teacher essentailly said the same thing, but I was concerned that the statement was based more on his unique body style than a standard practice.

What works as a sitting or standing position absolutely does depend on which bow you use, or indeed if you're playing pizz only. As has been said, the number one consideration is to be able to play without damaging your body, followed closely by what gives you the technique to achieve what you want musically. Anything else is extraneous.

Perhaps try the idea of an arrow pointing from your chest towards the bridge as you experiment with standing/sitting positions. This keeps both hands working towards a natural central point in front of you.

DP