I run direct because it's what I've always done.

Do any bass players mic their bass cab? Or do the low tones dictate running direct? thanks!

It's usually the sound guy that tries to dictate DI or mic.:hmm:

I prefer a mic by a country mile. Best option a live sound guy is likely to have is a D112, but I'll even take a 57 over a DI.

The best is to do both. I play bass and I run some sound too. Being a bass player 1st I'm real picky about the bass sounds I mix. I've found the best possible bass sound comes from a combination of DI and cab mic. I like a CAD E100 on the cabinet. (jmho)

I used DI and 57 on 10" speakers for years. Love it.

Again, it depends on the sound guy. I don't tell them what to do.
Most want a direct out. The last gig, I brought my old 400RB and rather than go into a direct box from the 1/4" out, then into the board, the sound man just mic'd up the 15" cab.
From what I was told, it sounded just fine.

Here's a little secret about sound guys: most of them don't care what you want your bass to sound like. They will do what ever is easiest for them (direct) and dial in the tone they want on the board.

The sound guys that work the best gigs have more of a vested interest in good tone. I was talking to the sound man for the mainstage at Sasquatch (huge festival here in WA) and he always takes a signal from both, and for good reason. Us bassists spend a lot on our cabs because we like the way they shape our tone. We spend hours dialing in the perfect tone on our rig. If the soundman takes the cabs out of the equation, he's taking part of our tone out with it.

Both is the way to go.

Someone needs to do a rackmountable DI that also alows to feed a mic signal, and then, mix that up... that way you send just one line to the PA.... That would be cool, but I'm dreaming...

Both is the way to go.

Yep, but if it's really important to you consider carrying your own mike for the purpose. As a sound man, I never refuse anyone who's serious enough to do that, regardless of instrument.;)

DI & SM57 works great on my NV610!!!!!!

Someone needs to do a rackmountable DI that also alows to feed a mic signal, and then, mix that up... that way you send just one line to the PA.... That would be cool, but I'm dreaming...Well, it might work OK but, the purpose of using both is having the ability to taylor the mix. With both sent to the DI (bass and mic) the sound tech wouldn't have that control, you would.

The best is to do both. I play bass and I run some sound too. Being a bass player 1st I'm real picky about the bass sounds I mix. I've found the best possible bass sound comes from a combination of DI and cab mic. I like a CAD E100 on the cabinet. (jmho)

+1 to that. Buy the sound guy a beer and he will be your friend. :D

+1 for both

Decent DI box and a 421 for the win

Well, it might work OK but, the purpose of using both is having the ability to taylor the mix. With both sent to the DI (bass and mic) the sound tech wouldn't have that control, you would.

Its very likely that I've misunderstood but I think the point may have been to be able to send to the sound guy an entire mix of the band, the way the band wants - it allowing FOH to amplify that mix. My concert going experience is that too many mixes feature a chest-pounding kick drum, almost inaudible bass guitar, a bit of guitar and some vocals.

I would say 98% of the clubs I play go DI. I may have been mic'd up once in the past 3 years. I use a three way cab anyway, so I doubt any soundman in the world is going to put 3 mics on my cabinet, and if he's not gonna do that, I'd rather go DI.

:) When my rig is mic'd, I have for years put the SM57 directly in front of the center of the lowest mounted speaker about an inch or so away from the grill. Gives the sound that I personally like, although, direct has worked in some situations. It just seems to be that I lose some of the fullness when direct only. Of course, this is all subjective to the style and sound that you like to do and whether you do your own sound or not. If you don't, try and go with a wireless or something that will allow you to go out and hear what your crowd hears. Soundguys are your band's best friend or worst enemy. Many times I have heard what I knew to be good bands sound bad with a soundguy doing a poor job. Or, good soundguys can help you sound better with good mixing etc. So, unless you have your own guy that you know does it well, be carefull.

Yep, but if it's really important to you consider carrying your own mike for the purpose. As a sound man, I never refuse anyone who's serious enough to do that, regardless of instrument.;)

+1...For most gigs...I play small enough rooms that I don't need to run both a DI and mic the cab...but when I do, I carry my own mic...and what I am currently carrying is an Audix D6....

I used DI and 57 on 10" speakers for years. Love it.

If you like the way your bass speaker adds to your tone, and trust it, then do the combo like allexcosta. I do the same with the same mic (Sure SM57) centered on the cone a foot away. Ask a friend to play your bass on stage and walk back to the main board. Have the engineer do a crossfade between the DI signal and the mic. It's actually surprisingly different.

I run direct because it's what I've always done.

Do any bass players mic their bass cab? Or do the low tones dictate running direct? thanks!

I mic my cab whenever the sound guy lets me because that's how I sound for shows with no instrumental PA support and for recordings. I don't know how my amp sounds through other speakers so I'd rather have the PA reproduce the sound coming from my cab.

Yep, but if it's really important to you consider carrying your own mike for the purpose. As a sound man, I never refuse anyone who's serious enough to do that, regardless of instrument.;)

Agreed, I bring a 58 and mic my old SVT, surprises a lot of the uninitiated soundmen out there.

Its very likely that I've misunderstood but I think the point may have been to be able to send to the sound guy an entire mix of the band, the way the band wants - it allowing FOH to amplify that mix. My concert going experience is that too many mixes feature a chest-pounding kick drum, almost inaudible bass guitar, a bit of guitar and some vocals.

Yes, I think a lot of soundmen have kick drum deafness, it's sickening to hear a kick drum blast over everything else, not real good for your ears either. The kick and the bass should blend equally as they do on good sounding records.

On the advice of a really good soundman (Gary Hoey's soundman), I bought a Samson Q Kick, which is a kick drum mic. It's worked out really well, and I got it new ridiculously cheap ($30). You can't beat the price, and it makes a great mic for bass. I used to use an SM57, but I prefer the Q Kick.

I much prefer to mix a kick drum mic and a DI line as well.

+1 for both

Decent DI box and a 421 for the win

421s better than an AKG112 for bass cabs?

421s better than an AKG112 for bass cabs?

Depends on the cab and the sound coming out of it.

421s better than an AKG112 for bass cabs?

They both sound really good. Live I would use the 112 because it's cheaper and less finicky. The 421 is best-known as a studio tom mic, but it lends itself well to bass cab micing.

That's why I ask, I thought 421s were best for toms and vocals (guy from TMV uses one).

In my world it's an Ampeg SVPCL into a Bergantino 322, lots of lows (5 string+ basses). Barely any tube drive. I'm looking for good mic for studio work

That's why I ask, I thought 421s were best for toms and vocals (guy from TMV uses one).

In my world it's an Ampeg SVPCL into a Bergantino 322, lots of lows (5 string+ basses). Barely any tube drive. I'm looking for good mic for studio work

EV RE20 is worth a look, so is an SM7. Large diaphragm dynamics often do low pretty good.

My experience with kick drum mics is that they have a big hole in the lower mid range and a treble peak to add snap. That is how a lot of people EQ the kick these days. Lots of low end with a peak at about 2K. I can't see much point in mic'ing a bass cab if you're not going to use a mic with flat response. That's why I like a CAD E100

I just ordered one of these for recording and stage. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/3/6/1/224361.jpg

Going DI, I found, did not produce what I actually sound like. It was kind of a generic bass sound. I bought a big fat condenser mic from EV called a Cardinal. I have yet to try this mic out it does have the flat frequency response I was looking for.

Paul

Depends on whether you like the sound you're getting from your cab(s), and how closely that matches what the DI cranks out.

I go for a clean sound with hi-fi sounding speakers, so a DI would work well for me. I'm pretty happy with the way my rig's DI sounds when I've recorded it.

Someone who's cranking a tube amp or using speaker cone breakup for sonic coloration would be better off micing the cab.

My choice is an SM58 with DI mixed in to taste if possible.

I'm always surprized by how many people like the SM57 for bass. Personaly, I much prefer a good kick drum mic. Either the Sure Beta 52A or my fav, they AKG D112. The 57 just isn't meant for bass. It really is much better on guitar.

That's why I ask, I thought 421s were best for toms and vocals (guy from TMV uses one).

In my world it's an Ampeg SVPCL into a Bergantino 322, lots of lows (5 string+ basses). Barely any tube drive. I'm looking for good mic for studio work

If you're looking for jazz bass & ampeg mids to go with those lows I'd take a 421 over an SM7 and an RE20 (which are also nice mics).

My experience with kick drum mics is that they have a big hole in the lower mid range and a treble peak to add snap. That is how a lot of people EQ the kick these days. Lots of low end with a peak at about 2K. I can't see much point in mic'ing a bass cab if you're not going to use a mic with flat response...
I've got to agree with GreyBeard on that . . .

421s better than an AKG112 for bass cabs?
That's right . . . although it's NOT a very flat responding mic (it has a mid peak similar to that of a SM57) . . . but it does handle high sound pressure well and IS a (more-or-less) large diaphragm dynamic mic . . .

EV RE20 is worth a look, so is an SM7. Large diaphragm dynamics often do low pretty good.
True. We've got EV RE-20, Shure SM-7, Sennheiser MD421 and AKG112 at the studio to choose from . . . I always seem to go for the accurate, flat reponse (without the usual cardiod proximity effect) of the RE20 (PL20) . . . YMMV, but that's the BEST tool for the job, IMO.

has anyone tried a Sennheiser E609? Its spread is 40hz to 18 khz. Alot of guitar players use them and I was wondering how it might work micing a 4 string thru 10's

I just ordered one of these for recording and stage. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/3/6/1/224361.jpg

I am very interested to hear how you like this mic.

A lot of guys here are saying you need to mic the cab to get a good "live" sound. But on other threads I've seen you hear a lot of guys saying you can't hear what your rig really sounds like unless your 20 feet away! So how can a mic get a good sound from 2 inches away??

From my understanding of it if your going for a coloured sound, which is presumably why you'd use a mic in the first place, you use some sort of amp/coloured DI box to make up for the bass and other frequencies you don't get from the mic and the mic picks up the detailed elements of the sound and your cabs character.

i like to do both. DI and i mic my cab. D112 or a beta52

A lot of guys here are saying you need to mic the cab to get a good "live" sound. But on other threads I've seen you hear a lot of guys saying you can't hear what your rig really sounds like unless your 20 feet away! So how can a mic get a good sound from 2 inches away??

They are the same guys searching the internet for 55-foot wide headphones so they can hear low E more clearly - or genetic modification to grow ears on the back of their calfs.

I bring along an RE20 if the engineer wants to use a mic, but I usually go DI and the soundperson just brings up the fader and we move on. I try to make my bass rig as much like a PA in response so I'm not second guessing the tones. Plus, these days I use in ears, so what I hear is pretty damn close to what the house gets.

Edwin

for bass cab i like the re20 and the 421 best. re20 dead center an inch away, 421 from 12 to 18" away to lessen the proximity effect. i've used a 57/58 in a pinch too for bass cab and kick duties, there is nothing "wrong" with those mics at all. for di a radial jdi; simple, elegant tone, indestructible, passive

RE 20 rocks for bass. I'm using a similar mic...a Heil PR 40, but it's got a lot more low end extension than an RE 20. Probably too much low end, to be honest. But it sounds great and is $50 less than the RE 20 ;)

I'm sure I could deal with "too much" low end from one of them :p the Heils flatter all over compared to the RE20 n all. The guy who's recording our album is apparently so psyched he wants to get some new gear just for us, hopefully I can get one of them on the shopping list...

Back when I used to record bass a lot I also had very nice results with Beyer M88. It'd also work well live.

Back when I used to record bass a lot I also had very nice results with Beyer M88. It'd also work well live.
+1. Sweet bass mic.

I used DI and 57 on 10" speakers for years. Love it.^ this :cool:

I like the mike about 1"+ off the grill, aimed where the paper meets the cone. :bassist:

To Greenboy: Just how Jim Anderson does it! He just did sound for the reunion show at Slim's in Seattle last weekend!! Was a HOOT!!

I like the mike about 1"+ off the grill, aimed where the paper meets the cone. :bassist:

To Greenboy: Just how Jim Anderson does it! He just did sound for the reunion show at Slim's in Seattle last weekend!! Was a HOOT!!

Wish I could have been there too, but glad to hear you could make it! I'm almost afraid to hear the details in the PM you are going to send me ; }

I can't believe how many people will debate the DI/mic thing. My position has always been, and as a soundman near the start of the thread said: show up with either and know how you use it, and I will plug it into the board. If you don't show pro, you get what's available ; }

I'll play. I keep an SM57 and a short stand in my gig bag, so it's always an option, as well as a DI, always in the bag. Be prepared, someone once said.

Does anyone think the choice of mike would/should be different for different amps/cabs? For example - would it make sense to use a different mic on a Bergantino cab or stack as opposed to a B15N?

Also, are different mics more useful or appropriate for either gigging or recording?

Does anyone think the choice of mike would/should be different for different amps/cabs? For example - would it make sense to use a different mic on a Bergantino cab or stack as opposed to a B15N?

It's another variable. Myself, I like to mic with relaticely flat mic with no big presence peak so that any cab that it gets put in front of will not get excessively filtered. But if someone wants a 57 sound impinged on top of that I'm cool with that too.

Run what ya brung. And bring something else if that's not getting the trophy.

Someone needs to do a rackmountable DI that also alows to feed a mic signal, and then, mix that up... that way you send just one line to the PA.... That would be cool, but I'm dreaming...

that has got to be the solution! now you brought it up, and its such a simple idea, I got to wonder why its not in use. What do you think? cost? complexity? or am I the only one that's seem to be all psych up about this concept?


Well, it might work OK but, the purpose of using both is having the ability to taylor the mix. With both sent to the DI (bass and mic) the sound tech wouldn't have that control, you would.

precisely, the bassist SHOULD have control to the over balance of the bass tone, the sound tech can then adjust that signal to fit the venue. IMHO.

Does anyone think the choice of mike would/should be different for different amps/cabs? For example - would it make sense to use a different mic on a Bergantino cab or stack as opposed to a B15N?

Also, are different mics more useful or appropriate for either gigging or recording?
I would use the same mic on either cab, but as Greenie said, it's another variable and picking out a mic is very subjective. People say the 58 sucks for bass cabs, but my experience is that they rock for what I like. Still, the PR 40 rocks more, so that's what I use now.

As for the second question, definitely some mics are more appropriate for recording than the studio, especially mics that cost thousands. And some mics you'd use in the studio might not be as good at rejecting sounds from other sources, but it doesn't matter as much.

Hmm, we missed this the first time around but not this time. Moved to Live Sound.

I always use an ATM-25 for anything low register , kick , amp , floor , tuba , etc.... Nice round low end , very flay mic.
They don't make 'em anymore.:crying:

that has got to be the solution! now you brought it up, and its such a simple idea, I got to wonder why its not in use. What do you think? cost? complexity? or am I the only one that's seem to be all psych up about this concept?

Bad idea. Often there are phase problems between DI and mic that can be minimized by having control of that DI/mic mix. But you can't hear them up on stage. In fact the whole premise of "taking control" is flawed BECAUSE YOU CAN'T HEAR WHAT YOU NEED TO HEAR WHEN YOU ARE UP ONSTAGE.

Maybe I missed it, but I have a question about mic'ing the cab. In other discussions, people talk about how your sound doesn't develop until it's many feet away from your cab because of the length of the soundwave, etc.

If this is the case - and it seems from a physics standpoint that it is - if you want the true sound of your cab, the mic would have to be many feet away, correct? So putting a mic an inch from your cab, and basically one driver, isn't really capturing the sound of your cab, right?

Not trying to start a mic vs. DI thing, just wondering about what seems to be very contradictory logic.

I always DI. My "sound" comes from my bass, pups and preamp. I tend to sound loike me no mater what bass Iplay or what amp I play through.

In fact the whole premise of "taking control" is flawed BECAUSE YOU CAN'T HEAR WHAT YOU NEED TO HEAR WHEN YOU ARE UP ONSTAGE.

That should be a sticky.

Maybe I missed it, but I have a question about mic'ing the cab. In other discussions, people talk about how your sound doesn't develop until it's many feet away from your cab because of the length of the soundwave, etc.

If this is the case - and it seems from a physics standpoint that it is - if you want the true sound of your cab, the mic would have to be many feet away, correct? So putting a mic an inch from your cab, and basically one driver, isn't really capturing the sound of your cab, right?

Steve, see post #42.

I think the proper retort for anyone who claims that the sound is louder/more developed further away is "Put your ear right up to the cab all night long and then get back to me."

So the sound developing 20 feet away is BS...

Yep. I don't know where these arbitrary numbers come from but I suspect some of these guys saw that the wavelength of a certain frequency was whatever feet. But if sound actually worked like that, you'd have to dance to a new position each time the bass played a new note, because every note has a different wavelength.

low E: 27.4 feet
low B: 36.6 feet

That's got to be a big dance move to hear a cadence properly - and what about all those overtones? ; }

I prefer to mic the cab and run a line out to the board then let the sound man do his job and blend the 2 together.

Yep. I don't know where these arbitrary numbers come from but I suspect some of these guys saw that the wavelength of a certain frequency was whatever feet. But if sound actually worked like that, you'd have to dance to a new position each time the bass played a new note, because every note has a different wavelength.

low E: 27.4 feet
low B: 36.6 feet

That's got to be a big dance move to hear a cadence properly - and what about all those overtones? ; }
Not only that, but headphones wouldn't put out any sound except for very high frequencies if that were the case. However, it's an often-repeated myth, sometimes by audio pros, so it has legs. I used to believe it myself until these guys set me straight.

Not only that, but headphones wouldn't put out any sound except for very high frequencies if that were the case.

From the originator of the headphone example, and in this very thread: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5273385&postcount=42

However, it's an often-repeated myth, sometimes by audio pros

Those particular pros must be the most unobservant ever. I guess they have other redeeming qualities, but to them I would also suggest putting their ear next to the subwoofer all night long, and then report back after they recover.

What qualifies a soundman as an "audio pro"? Around here it's owning a PA and renting it out ;)

Yep, but if it's really important to you consider carrying your own mike for the purpose. As a sound man, I never refuse anyone who's serious enough to do that, regardless of instrument.;)

I just bought a mic stand and intended using my sm57. I am sick of lugging my 8x10 around to only get used as "a moniter." I really hope one day your my sound guy :) because i am that serious :hyper:

What qualifies a soundman as an "audio pro"? Around here it's owning a PA and renting it out ;)

Thats about every gig I have ever played at!

So far we have...

AKG D11
AKG D112,
Audix D6
Beyer M88
CAD E100
EV RE20
Heil PR40
Samson Q-Kick
Sennheiser 421
Shure Beta 52
Shure SM57
Shure SM58

About half (?) prefer a blend of DI and mic. Do we want to open the DI can of works here, too? Avalon? A-Reddi? Doesn't matter? New thread?

:hiding:

Do we want to open the DI can of works here, too? Avalon? A-Reddi? Doesn't matter? New thread?

:hiding:

I'm waiting for a couple weeks (when the bed for the guest room gets here) and then I am seriously considering another Avalon U5. I've owned one (twice), actually) before and in my ridiculous, young and foolish quest for tone, I sold them and tried something else. Well, I see them on so many touring racks - all those players can't be wrong.

I would consider the REDDI as it gets rave reviews, but the "sweetness" only goes to the XLR out, not the 1/4" and I want the "sweetness" to go to my stage amp as well as the FOH/Monitor system.

Then again, I used a $150 Radial JDI one Sunday (we have a pretty nice system) and a $30 CBI the next and couldn't really tell a difference so either my ears are bad, or I'm reading more into it than I should or need to.

Still, I remember when I was using an Avalon U% as a preamp and DI an dI sounded damn good - IMHO.

add sennheiser 602 and 902 to the list. not as scooped as a d112, not as boomy as a beta 52.

You could add an Audix D4, and the EV 868 to that list. I have used them both with great success on both bass and kick. D4 is a paticuallry good mic for an upright as well.

Okay, I spoke with a few sound guys I know this afternoon, and the only thing they agreed on was... well actually, they didn't agree on anything except for the fact that you could mic and or DI and bass. Absolutely for sure they approved the following:

- SM57 and Radial JDI together
- 421 and D112 together
- Use the DI in the back of the amp to keep the integrity of the amp's sound
- Beta 52
- 421 and Radial JDI together
- 421, but make sure it's an old one
- SM58
- any kick drum mic I could find plus DI

One guy said that he thought the RE20 was "old school" and fussy to use live, though very nice for recording. However, he did have two used ones that he was willing to sell me. Another guy said that he used to like Beyer until they brought out the TG series.:hmm: None of these guys use Avalon or A-Reddi, but have heard about them and consider them "studio" equipment. No flames boys - these are not my opinions, 'kay? Nobody I spoke to knew anything about CAD. Everybody I spoke to had something good to say about Radial; that could be an "Up here in Canada" thing.

All of this raises a question - do the requirements change according to the size and style of the gig? It seems to me that the bigger the gig venue, the bigger the PA, the louder the volume, and the less it matters - but not having done the "big show" thing for a number of years I could be talking out of my a$$. :eyebrow:

I would consider the REDDI as it gets rave reviews, but the "sweetness" only goes to the XLR out, not the 1/4" and I want the "sweetness" to go to my stage amp as well as the FOH/Monitor system.

Does this seem to make the REDDI more of a studio tool? I'm not so sure - if I'm already trying to get the "tube thing" out of my rig, why clutter it with more? I think I'd rather have the direct out of the REDDI going clean to my rig and the tube colouration going to the board/recording console.

Maybe I should just go back to playing Tuba. :scowl:

i read all the post's and I didn't see my approach used by anyone else.

i show up , set up and start playing.
I don't own a D.I. or a mic.
If I'm going through the p.a. , i don't care about the method.
I trust the sound guy knows what he's doing.
Maybe thats a bit cavalier , but i expect EVERYONE involved with the gig to know what to do.

Nothing wrong with that approach, Bill. Some of us are just a little more anal than you ;)

BTW, not a lot of people know how good Heil mics are. I got mine because Justin MJ raved about how good it sounded on his B-15N for a Dixie Chicks session produced by Rick Rubin. It's like an RE20 except it goes lower. And I don't see anything the least bit fussy about using either the PR 40 or the RE 20.

Nothing wrong with that approach, Bill. Some of us are just a little more anal than you ;)

BTW, not a lot of people know how good Heil mics are. I got mine because Justin MJ raved about how good it sounded on his B-15N for a Dixie Chicks session produced by Rick Rubin. It's like an RE20 except it goes lower. And I don't see anything the least bit fussy about using either the PR 40 or the RE 20.

Okay, I'm sold. I usually use a Summit Audio or BBE DI (depending on the bass), and don't mic live. When I do, it's a 421, mainly 'cause I own it, but it works well. I've recorded with PL/RE 20's repeatedly, though, and they're awesome. I HAVE to try the Heil, now.

Just thought that I'd let you know that the three times you've mentioned it this thread alone are having a positive affect :D

Well if I had a 421, I'd be pretty darn happy with it and probably wouldn't want to buy another one. I only got the Heil because the only other mics I had were 58's and a 57, and I was looking for a mic nobody would complain about like they did the 58 and 57. But I've used a 421 a lot and it's killer. Maybe a tad bright, but in a good and easily controllable way.

I think it really depends on how good your D.I. is. My GK700rbII has a wonderful , low Z, dialable gain , w/ pre or post. I also have an SM57 mic. Several times I have done comparisons (FOH , w/ my wireless) and this amps D.I. is so close to the sm57, that I now just use it (D.I.) all the time. But I would not say that all D.I.'s are created equal.

This may go without saying, but going DI doesn't mean you lose the benefit of all the coloring that your bass, your effects and your preamp add to your sound, so long as you can send your DI signal "post" instead of only "pre". Most heads have that option, don't they?

Essentially, what you "lose" by going DI is anything the speakers may add. Of course, as so many people have pointed out so many times before, your "sound" doesn't matter so much, because your "sound" will be altered greatly be the addition of everyone else's "sound". In other words, the only thing that counts is how you sound in the mix. You can't tell that from the stage, no matter how good your ears are.

So, you either have a sound man who is skilled enough to make you sound good in the mix, or you will sound like crap. Mic'd, DI'd, combo'd, whatever.

I didn't believe any of this stuff until I spent a few shows out from behind the bass and out in front of the mixing board. Sound guys are a popular whipping boy, but they sure can do a lot to make your band sound better.

Scootron, your sound may not matter so much to you. Mine matters greatly, and if I don't have the sound of my amp in the PA, I want to know why. Your approach is valid...for you. If that's what you like to do, more power to you. I don't.

I realize this is a pretty controversial topic with soundmen, but there shouldn't be a single bit of controversy at all. It's a load of absolute steaming horse puckey that the PA is so different that you're never going to get your sound from your amp in the PA. Every gig I play, I manage to get the sound of my amp in the PA, and it sounds like my amp, only bigger. Yes, occasionally they might have to EQ the ultra-low freqs out of it, but that doesn't mean the sound isn't there. That just means the soundman felt it was stepping on the bass drum, so he rolled off the ultra low freqs that step on the bass drum. Rarely happens with my Ampeg rigs, though. Most of them come pre-rolled off.

The only times I haven't been able to do it were when I had to use one of those dinky vocals-only PA's with no sub, but I don't run the bass through them when I have to use them. Otherwise, it doesn't matter whether it's two inexpensive full-ranges on poles + sub, or a state of the art line array PA with massive subs...unless the soundman drastically EQ's me, I get the same sound in the PA that I get in my amp by micing it with a good flat-response mic. It's not hard at all to do.

Scootron, your sound may not matter so much to you. Mine matters greatly, and if I don't have the sound of my amp in the PA, I want to know why. Your approach is valid...for you. If that's what you like to do, more power to you. I don't.

I realize this is a pretty controversial topic with soundmen, but there shouldn't be a single bit of controversy at all. It's a load of absolute steaming horse puckey that the PA is so different that you're never going to get your sound from your amp in the PA. Every gig I play, I manage to get the sound of my amp in the PA, and it sounds like my amp, only bigger. Yes, occasionally they might have to EQ the ultra-low freqs out of it, but that doesn't mean the sound isn't there. That just means the soundman felt it was stepping on the bass drum, so he rolled off the ultra low freqs that step on the bass drum. Rarely happens with my Ampeg rigs, though. Most of them come pre-rolled off.

The only times I haven't been able to do it were when I had to use one of those dinky vocals-only PA's with no sub, but I don't run the bass through them when I have to use them. Otherwise, it doesn't matter whether it's two inexpensive full-ranges on poles + sub, or a state of the art line array PA with massive subs...unless the soundman drastically EQ's me, I get the same sound in the PA that I get in my amp by micing it with a good flat-response mic. It's not hard at all to do.

I'm not sure we disagree that much, Jimmy. My sound matters to me, and I get the sound of my Ampeg through a PA. What I don't get going DI is the sound of my cab's speakers. But, I play different cabs at different times, and that's the one area that I'm willing to give some ground.

It's not a huge problem for me, since I want my cab speakers to be as "neutral" as possible, and simply reproduce whatever I am inputting, adding as little color as possible (unlike my guitarist). So, it doesn't matter to me whether my sound is amplified by the PA system, so long as it is producing what I am sending.

The rest of my post had to do with the fact that a bass player's sound is only as good as it works into the mix. That's a different point entirely.

I've never played in a band with a second bassist, but any time I have a guitarist who obsesses over his "sound", it usually means he doesn't give a damn about how the band sounds so long as he can hear himself and likes what he hears.

But that's not what a band is about. Anybody who doesn't understand that is just some guy soloing in the midst of some other guys trying to play some music.

BTW, not a lot of people know how good Heil mics are. I got mine because Justin MJ raved about how good it sounded on his B-15N for a Dixie Chicks session produced by Rick Rubin. It's like an RE20 except it goes lower. And I don't see anything the least bit fussy about using either the PR 40 or the RE 20.

Agreed about the Heil - the guys I spoke with had heard of Heil, but had little or no experience using them. And I'm not trying to say that the RE20 is fussy, but I am saying that the perception exists, at least amongst some. More importantly, there seem to be a number of solutions that different folks are committed to, depending on their own situations and preferences. As with anything, I guess the best solution is to try some of the darned things and see how well they work - though I suspect that the variables will make it more difficult to make a determination live than recording.

By the way Jimmy, how well does the Heil handle wind? I do a lot of outdoor stuff in spring/summer, and for that reason tend to use a DI a lot.

So far so good with the wind. I'm sure it picks up a little, but no worse than any other mic up there. And I don't get any complaints, though a couple guys have expressed some concerns about it. But I tell them, "You don't seem so concerned about the guitar mic," and it kind of puts it in perspective ;)

Hmmmm....five pages and no one has mentioned the inherent danger of polarity/phase mismatch.

Tsk tsk!

I like the DI/mic combo too, but unless the soundguy knows what he's doing (and knows how to check polarity) the tone of a mic/DI combo will end up WORSE than if you used one or the other alone.

This may go without saying, but going DI doesn't mean you lose the benefit of all the coloring that your bass, your effects and your preamp add to your sound, so long as you can send your DI signal "post" instead of only "pre". Most heads have that option, don't they?

Essentially, what you "lose" by going DI is anything the speakers may add. Of course, as so many people have pointed out so many times before, your "sound" doesn't matter so much, because your "sound" will be altered greatly be the addition of everyone else's "sound". In other words, the only thing that counts is how you sound in the mix. You can't tell that from the stage, no matter how good your ears are.

So, you either have a sound man who is skilled enough to make you sound good in the mix, or you will sound like crap. Mic'd, DI'd, combo'd, whatever.

I didn't believe any of this stuff until I spent a few shows out from behind the bass and out in front of the mixing board. Sound guys are a popular whipping boy, but they sure can do a lot to make your band sound better.

+1

I like the DI/mic combo too, but unless the soundguy knows what he's doing (and knows how to check polarity) the tone of a mic/DI combo will end up WORSE than if you used one or the other alone.

Not "will", "might". It's a crapshoot. Even polarity is not an absolute since it's a finer-grained issue of phase, really... Usually this can be somewhat minimized by running the DI channel somewhat like a lowpass and the mic channel like a highpass.

All rather unexact, really ; }

Not "will", "might". It's a crapshoot. Even polarity is not an absolute since it's a finer-grained issue of phase, really... Usually this can be somewhat minimized by running the DI channel somewhat like a lowpass and the mic channel like a highpass.

All rather unexact, really ; }


Yeah, you're right; MIGHT is the better word.

What I typically do is cut everything below 300hz on the mic channel, and then cutting everything above on the DI. Of course, some tweaking is necessary, but this always gets me in the ballpark.

In all my years of playing, I can't think of one time where using a DI/mic put me out of phase. Not in the studio, not live. Even if it does, though, it's very easily corrected.

What I typically do is cut everything below 300hz on the mic channel, and then cutting everything above on the DI. Of course, some tweaking is necessary, but this always gets me in the ballpark.

Likewise : }

In all my years of playing, I can't think of one time where using a DI/mic put me out of phase. Not in the studio, not live. Even if it does, though, it's very easily corrected.

Yep, when you get to a certain tier in live mixers and especially studio mixers you have a polarity switch on any input anyway. When you don't, it's often just a case of placing the mic a little differently, ther's a lot of phase relationship going on as regards both distance and angle (and what's diffracting off the baffle).

In all my years of playing, I can't think of one time where using a DI/mic put me out of phase. Not in the studio, not live. Even if it does, though, it's very easily corrected.

How do you do it when it's not 180°?

Just curious....

What I typically do is cut everything below 300hz on the mic channel, and then cutting everything above on the DI. Of course, some tweaking is necessary, but this always gets me in the ballpark.

It's the only way to go if you don't have the tools at hand......

Hmmmm....five pages and no one has mentioned the inherent danger of polarity/phase mismatch.

Tsk tsk!

I like the DI/mic combo too, but unless the soundguy knows what he's doing (and knows how to check polarity) the tone of a mic/DI combo will end up WORSE than if you used one or the other alone.

+1

And nobody talked about the coupling effect in a 8/10 that will not be capture by a mike it front of a single 10"..... :D

EDIT: I feel the need to explain ;
We were just mentioning phase issues on miking an amp + a DI , then I added;
When miking an amp , like an 8/10 in that example , the coupling effect you have in front of it is something impossible to recreate in a PA with a microphone. (of course and obviously) Since people were mentioning wanted in the PA "EXACTLY" what they hear on their amps.

Phew !

+1

And nobody talked about the coupling effect in a 8/10 that will not be capture by a mike it front of a single 10"..... :D

Id like to hear jimmy's response to this.

Id like to hear jimmy's response to this.
+1

One easy solution would be to put the mike at 10-20 feet in front of the amp.
To capture exactly what the bass player is hearing , it would be ideal to put the mike in the back of his head..... :0)

There is a free marketing idea right there , my pleasure ;)

+1

One easy solution would be to put the mike at 10-20 feet in front of the amp. To capture exactly what the bass player is hearing , it would be ideal to put the mike in the back of his head..... :0)

There is a free marketing idea right there , my pleasure ;)

Yeah, using epoxy would be the best bet.

+1

One easy solution would be to put the mike at 10-20 feet in front of the amp.
To capture exactly what the bass player is hearing , it would be ideal to put the mike in the back of his head..... :0)

There is a free marketing idea right there , my pleasure ;)

Thats well and good but most venues only give 4-6 feet of moving room.
So with that said what would you say?

This thread made me realize i have a micstand and mic, a cable and no clip for the mic. Anyone wanna hook a brother up haha.

+1

And nobody talked about the coupling effect in a 8/10 that will not be capture by a mike it front of a single 10"..... :D
That's because it's irrelevant. Whatever I get out of the cab ALWAYS comes out of the mic as long as the mic is able to reproduce those frequencies. If it didn't work, nobody would do it.

That's because it's irrelevant. Whatever I get out of the cab ALWAYS comes out of the mic as long as the mic is able to reproduce those frequencies. If it didn't work, nobody would do it.

This is why they call him jimmy. Now if only bob was here to supply a funny story complete with epic burn... http://www.emofaces.com/en/emoticons/p/popcorn-eating-emoticon.gif

That's because it's irrelevant. Whatever I get out of the cab ALWAYS comes out of the mic as long as the mic is able to reproduce those frequencies. If it didn't work, nobody would do it.

Damn !!!

All those years carrying 8/10 for nothing when I could have done it with only one 10".......

Geez thanx !

EDIT: you could send a letter to all those companies designing line array system , maybe they too , can do it with only one driver......

Damn !!!

All those years carrying 8/10 for nothing when I could have done it with only one 10".......

Geez thanx !

EDIT: you could send a letter to all those companies designing line array system , maybe they too , can do it with only one driver......

Good luck hearing a 1x10 on stage. even with monitering.

Damn !!!

All those years carrying 8/10 for nothing when I could have done it with only one 10".......

Geez thanx !

EDIT: you could send a letter to all those companies designing line array system , maybe they too , can do it with only one driver......
Boy oh boy! You're going mental over this. It just galls you to no end that someone else likes something you don't like. I shouldn't reply to you because I fear for your sanity if I do :D , but in the interest of edumacating young Trent to the ways of old (which are still in use to this day by the top names in the business), I'm going to.

So the line array thing you bring up is totally irrelevant to this discussion. Obviously a lot of drivers will sound bigger than a single 10". We are talking about how a mic is able to pick up the sound of a cabinet without needing to mic every driver and port, and your reference to line arrays is neither here nor there to the discussion.

OK, so the mic works...there is tons of recorded documentation as well as empirical evidence from listening to a lot of popular recordings where the amp was the only source and the cab was close mic'ed. Beck's album "Sea Change" is a recent example. All done with a B-15R close mic'ed with a FET 47. There was nothing missing. Yes, with your usual Shure vocal mic, a DI blended with it was nice because it gave you some more bottom end, but with my Heil it's unnecessary. Especially on a sealed cab where every driver sounds just like the other.

As for the port frequencies, most of them come out of the driver anyway, and what few frequencies that are only reproduced by the port find their way to the mic because they're omnidirectional. That's what a mic does. Sounds hit its diaphragm, and the mic reproduces them for recording or broadcast or live sound. So yes, a single mic pointed on a single driver on an 810 can easily reproduce the sound of the cabinet in the PA. I do it all the time, and anyone who thinks I can't is welcome to come to a gig and watch me do it IN YO FACE!!!*

* Or maybe not. I'm getting a Type 85 for my birthday, so I'll probably be speaker DIing and blending it and a mic for a while unless I decide on one or the other.

I've been in this buisness for over 25 years now and the only way I've seen (and heard) a miked 8/10 sound close (not exactly) to the reality is in a controled environement (studio , not live) with close and distant miking technique , with people with "loads" of equipement and time to do job right.
When you "close mike" an 8/10 , you get the tone & grit of the amp ,for everybody (me included) it's good enough , but you CAN'T get the coupling effect , your mike is too close to get it. Even a distant one does not capture the whole thing , the pressure you "feel" with that monter on your back. Impossible to capture & reproduce. It's a lifetime quest.


Please read my answer #95 again and your answer #101.
By reading that answer, what I understand is that your saying that there is no coupling effect in an 8/10.


PS:The alusion to line array was a sarcastic comment on an everyday application of coupling effect.

Proximity effect of many mics does a lot what driver acoustic coupling does anyway. Not that it's really needed if EQ facilities are decent, since the response curve of the cab - any cab - is not necessarily what's needed in the FOH mix.

Perhaps you mistakenly refer to the comb filtering an 810 makes. One can only reference that in an acoustic environment by changing their listening position. That's also partly what mic placement is all about: finding a position that represents what parts of the spectrum one wants to highlight or minimize.

Your line array allusion is misplaced since a good line array exhibits coupling further up into the spectrum than what is found in a bass cab where the drivers are not shaved-frame close, nor of smaller diameter, to get closer center-to-center geometry and higher beaming points.

I've been a proponent of the DI since the early 80s (there's a story but I'll spare you).
I work full time as an audio and video engineer. If a bass player (or anyone for that matter) wants a mic on the cabinet instead of a DI, it's no issue.
Either work just fine for me.

The only challenge I run in to is when the stage volume gets too loud. This can happen in either scenario. Keep your stage volume workable, and DI or mic - whatever.

As for mics. I've not used the Heil mic, but it sounds promising.
My favorites are the EV-RE20, the Shure SM7b, or a modified SM57 (Terry Manning TapeOp mod from a couple years ago). I see the Senneheiser 421 used frequently as well, although i haven't.

Well, the bottom line is that either a DI or mic works just fine, and if I want a mic, I'm not letting any soundman get in my way ;)

Well, the bottom line is that either a DI or mic works just fine, and if I want a mic, I'm not letting any soundman get in my way ;)

Careful - with the state fokof is in he's likely to hire an army of big bruisers who toss anyone aside who isn't wearing the stage badge ; }

Careful - with the state fokof is in he's likely to hire an army of big bruisers who toss anyone aside who isn't wearing the stage badge ; }
Fortunately, he's on the other side of the world, so I dodged a bullet there...unless he's rich enough to not care about how much money it would cost ;)

Also, one thing that hasn't been addressed for stage is that ambient signals from the cab are also picked up by the various vocal, instrument, and drum mics on the stage, which also enhances reproduction of the cab onstage. I play at low enough levels to where that would be kept to a minimum, but it still happens.

Also, one thing that hasn't been addressed for stage is that ambient signals from the cab are also picked up by the various vocal, instrument, and drum mics on the stage, which also enhances reproduction of the cab onstage. I play at low enough levels to where that would be kept to a minimum, but it still happens.

Actually it degrades it more than enhances it. Part of the problem with mic bleed in any direction from any source is that it is not time aligned with the actual signals at the source; ie the mic at the 810 is almost instantaneous at picking up the 810 (relatively speaking), while the other mics also picking up the 810 are picking up the signal after it has traveled through air n feet to where they are, each of them differernt. And some of that travel is also likely further degraded by being reflected path travel being mixed in with direct travel. Since those are at the relatively slow speed of sound and not the near-light speed of a signal traveling down wire, there are real phase/time issues.

It makes a mess, and the less of it the better.

Actually the principle outlined above is why it's cool to put a delay on PA mains so that it's coincident with backline enclosures plane. That way people hearing both the PA mains and the backline are hearing them arrive at about the same time, not so time smeared.

Fortunately, he's on the other side of the world, so I dodged a bullet there...unless he's rich enough to not care about how much money it would cost ;)


Be carefull , I'm closer than you think ! :D

Perhaps you mistakenly refer to the comb filtering an 810 makes. One can only reference that in an acoustic environment by changing their listening position. That's also partly what mic placement is all about: finding a position that represents what parts of the spectrum one wants to highlight or minimize.
Agree.
But live it has to be close miking, or else , you open the door to all the leak from other sources.

Your line array allusion is misplaced since a good line array exhibits coupling further up into the spectrum than what is found in a bass cab where the drivers are not shaved-frame close, nor of smaller diameter, to get closer center-to-center geometry and higher beaming points.
It was a general alusion of what coupling does in general since I was told there was no coupling effect in an 8/10 . (answer #106)

Actually it degrades it more than enhances it. Part of the problem with mic bleed in any direction from any source is that it is not time aligned with the actual signals at the source; ie the mic at the 810 is almost instantaneous at picking up the 810 (relatively speaking), while the other mics also picking up the 810 are picking up the signal after it has traveled through air n feet to where they are, each of them differernt. And some of that travel is also likely further degraded by being reflected path travel being mixed in with direct travel. Since those are at the relatively slow speed of sound and not the near-light speed of a signal traveling down wire, there are real phase/time issues.

It makes a mess, and the less of it the better.

Actually the principle outlined above is why it's cool to put a delay on PA mains so that it's coincident with backline enclosures plane. That way people hearing both the PA mains and the backline are hearing them arrive at about the same time, not so time smeared.
Very good then...I stand corrected.

This may sound a bit naive - but why would you want to reproduce the sound of coupling anyway? First off it's a practical impossibility - consider the result of trying to live mic a bass cab onstage or in a room from 20 feet away. Talk about signal degradation... Secondly, yes we like the cabinet coupling for the presence and weight it gives us as a stage monitor, but a medium to large PA will have it's own coupling properties that are best not complicated by trying to reproduce individual cabinet coupling, as opposed to plain acoustic tone from the instrument/amp/cab combo. With a small PA, it doesn't have the size to couple, so you're really depending on a judicious combination of the room, the bass amp/cab, and a little bit of extra presence of bass in the PA for clarity, yes?

Or am I missing something? :confused:

Or am I missing something? :confused:


The context ?

Read answer #95 and before.....


I know it's impossible to reproduce , that' was the point

Whatever. Who cares if it's impossible to reproduce if the end result still sounds like your cab in the PA?

And nobody talked about the coupling effect in a 8/10 that will not be capture by a mike it front of a single 10".....

Okay, sounds like you think this is an issue.

One easy solution would be to put the mike at 10-20 feet in front of the amp.

Yes easy, but impractical - unless you were kidding; in which case good one. :D

All those years carrying 8/10 for nothing when I could have done it with only one 10".......

A sarcastic reply, but still leads one to believe there is an issue...

I know it's impossible to reproduce , that' was the point

It's impossible so there is no issue?

Look dude, I read all the posts; I get the phasing thing, I get the DI/Mic crossover at 300Hz thing (quite clever - never heard of it before), I don't understand why worry about coupling. Either you're using small PA and the cab is still responsible for coupling, or you're using a bigger rig which couples with the room in which case the stage mix and the FOH mix are two different issues; the bass rig couples for the stage and the sound rig couples for the FOH.

So, I'm still trying to learn, but am still a litle confused on the issue - either you and I are talking apples and oranges, or you were kidding about coupling in the first place.

Or I'm dumber than dirt. And I'm not ruling that one out, not by a long shot. :hmm:

Those arguing with JimmyM still seem to be failing to realize WHY he mic's and how it DOES WORK for him. He is going for a very specific tone. The easiest way to get that tone with accuracy is a mic on a cab.

Personally I don't feel its going to work for a majority of bassists, especially those with horns in their cabs. I think those people would be better served to start with a DI and maybe a mic combo.

BIG +1

Horns, tweeters, ports, ALL of the components for the so called high end cabinet would make micing a nightmare, unless you miced all of them. But a single 15 cab like Jimmy's portaflex, or a single 10" from a sealed 810 - piece of cake and perfectly understandable.

And maybe that's where the discussion should be headed; how would some of you guys treat a 210/115 stack? Multiple mics? Mic or mics plus DI? DI and call it a day? I was intrigued by the comment one guy I spoke to made, when he said that he preferred it when the bass amp had a good DI - He felt that it gave him a fuller tone to work with.

Also, how do multiple basses fit into the equation? Micing a cab would seem to be a better - or at least simpler way to go than a DI per bass, unless of course the amp had a DI out. I guessing that there would still be level issues though...

..maybe that's where the discussion should be headed; how would some of you guys treat a 210/115 stack? Multiple mics? Mic or mics plus DI?

Good point.

I was going to say that if your tone is what goes IN to the amp, with the amp simply serving to monitor that sound then a DI is your best bet. otoh, if your tone is what comes OUT of the amp, that is any distortion and/or coloring that the amp provides, then mic'ing the amp seems the better choice.

Back to the quoted question. My large rig is a 210/115 stach powered by a Yamaha power amp. In my case, the tone going IN to the poweramp is the tone. So I run a line from my pedal board to the DI. The coloring comes from a Sansamp VT Bass pedal. I use the same set-up DI with IEM's and no amp on stage.
You better believe that If I were using a SVT or B15, I'd be micing the cabinet.

With some kind of amp+cab simulator, be it stomp box, rack, or some VST plugin, the tone you want is going to be at the DI. Unless your cabs response is flat like a PA, its only going to ruin it, IMO.

If you prefer the sound you get simulating one amp then having it plugged in to another integrated amp (non-power amp only, ie a Bass POD xt into a Ampeg B2RE), please by all means use a mic. You'll be chasing ghosts trying to figure out why your DI tone is nothing like what you hear from your cab.

Good point.

I was going to say that if your tone is what goes IN to the amp, with the amp simply serving to monitor that sound then a DI is your best bet. otoh, if your tone is what comes OUT of the amp, that is any distortion and/or coloring that the amp provides, then mic'ing the amp seems the better choice.

Back to the quoted question. My large rig is a 210/115 stach powered by a Yamaha power amp. In my case, the tone going IN to the poweramp is the tone. So I run a line from my pedal board to the DI. The coloring comes from a Sansamp VT Bass pedal. I use the same set-up DI with IEM's and no amp on stage.
You better believe that If I were using a SVT or B15, I'd be micing the cabinet.

Thats more like it. Now where are the experts on this so I can be enlightened.

If I used a 210/115, I'd probably mic a 10" and forget about the 15". Or vice versa. But that's just me.

Anyway, I rocked both a mic and a speaker DI on my gig last night using my B-15N. The verdict...I liked some aspects of the DI, but it just didn't come to life until the mic. The DI had a real edgy high end that's higher than the usual 5k rolloff I go for, but it didn't sound nearly as unpleasant as a straight DI, and it had a nice fat bottom, but the soundman ended up making it mic heavy because he liked the low mid boost and the angrier upper mids. Going to do some recording tests with it in the next couple days. We'll see what happens...

Horns, tweeters, ports, ALL of the components for the so called high end cabinet would make micing a nightmare, unless you miced all of them.

You do NOT ever need to mic a port. Ever. Really, some of you need to learn your basic acoustic principles and learn more about enclosures too. Either that, or stick to DIs. And if a mid and a tweeter and a woofer are all in the same enclosure and it is properly designed and you have the right mic you don't need to go mic-crazy there either.

Damn !!!

All those years carrying 8/10 for nothing when I could have done it with only one 10"......

FWIW, if I'm not mistaken, that's exactly how Gene Simmons does it, with--despite the towers of speakers for show only--a mic'd 1x10 isolation enclosure replicating one cell of an Ampeg 8x10.

Not that he's a tone monster. But yeah, ya coulda.

From what I hear from someone who worked with him once, one 810 is active in his rig, and one speaker is mic'ed. BTW, I love Gene's tone!

I found the article (Bass Guitar Fall 2003). He uses SVT-II's, one into an 8x10 on stage for reference, then the other goes into an "isolated cabinet with a single miked 10-inch speaker, although [the tech] explains that the remaining seven speakers...are daisy-chained so that the head sees a full load." So I'm not sure if that means the speakers are there and audible or not. Either way, I stand corrected (hey, it's been six years!). The article goes on to say he use 18 extra 8x10 dummy cabs for the backline...

You do NOT ever need to mic a port.

Good to know.

Really, some of you need to learn your basic acoustic principles and learn more about enclosures too.

And that's exactly what some of us are trying to do - which is why your comments and insight, along with all of the others who have posted here, are valuable to those of us not quite in the know.

I found the article (Bass Guitar Fall 2003). He uses SVT-II's, one into an 8x10 on stage for reference, then the other goes into an "isolated cabinet with a single miked 10-inch speaker, although [the tech] explains that the remaining seven speakers...are daisy-chained so that the head sees a full load." So I'm not sure if that means the speakers are there and audible or not. Either way, I stand corrected (hey, it's been six years!). The article goes on to say he use 18 extra 8x10 dummy cabs for the backline...
Doesn't sound like you stand corrected to me...sounds like I'm the one who stands corrected more than you.

Doesn't sound like you stand corrected to me...sounds like I'm the one who stands corrected more than you.

That would have to be entirely accidental--I'm like the broken clock that's right twice a day. :cool: H (belated) BD, btw.

TY, G ;)

You guys will love this - I stumbled across this post while researching mics to be used for bass cabs over on PSW:

"I use a Radial Pro48 for bottom and definition. Of the mics I have, the D4 would be the one for a bass cab. (Or an RE20 if I had bucks.) But honestly, I've yet to work with a bass rig that had sufficient character to warrant capturing it with a mic. I usually need the DI to give me all the good stuff, cause there ain't none comin' out of the bass rig. I find it useful to try switching the polarity, to see which blend of stage sound and PA gives the best bottom."

http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/17690/0/20/21987/

Switching phase/polarity is a common everyday practice on anything with 2 inputs coming from it. Kick in/out, Snare top/bottom, Guitar 1/2, bass DI/mic, etc...

You guys will love this - I stumbled across this post while researching mics to be used for bass cabs over on PSW:

"I use a Radial Pro48 for bottom and definition. Of the mics I have, the D4 would be the one for a bass cab. (Or an RE20 if I had bucks.) But honestly, I've yet to work with a bass rig that had sufficient character to warrant capturing it with a mic. I usually need the DI to give me all the good stuff, cause there ain't none comin' out of the bass rig. I find it useful to try switching the polarity, to see which blend of stage sound and PA gives the best bottom."

http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/17690/0/20/21987/
That's his opinion and he's welcome to it. My opinion is that he's FOS ;)

Your point to the contrary is also just your opinion, should it carry the same weight as his?

Your point to the contrary is also just your opinion, should it carry the same weight as his?

Around here, by track record? No contest.

My problem with that original quote is that the guy obviously can't get a good sound out of a bass rig. While being able to get a good sound direct might be a benefit, not being able to get a good sound out of a (decent) rig sounds like a drawback. Or he's never tried a decent rig.

..not being able to get a good sound out of a (decent) rig sounds like a drawback. Or he's never tried a decent rig.

Or he's FOS.


;)

Your point to the contrary is also just your opinion, should it carry the same weight as his?
Sure, no reason it should or shouldn't. But on my gigs, my opinion is the one that counts.

I always run a direct line because all the sound guys want it but my favorite sound guys/houses run a mic also. I like the way one of them put it - he said he "likes to hear some paper".
Having a sound guy who pays attention to the bass and respects the sound the bass player is aiming for (i.e. the amp) is nice.
I run direct because it's what I've always done.

Do any bass players mic their bass cab? Or do the low tones dictate running direct? thanks!