Hey all,

i'm a guitar player who recently got into electric bass, but now wants to move onto upright. Besides my slow and steady rise thru the ranks, i'm looking at these two basses to progress.

i did a search for both and pretty came up with the usual "its the best thing i've ever played!" posts. what are your thoughts as to what each have the other does not? does anyone have experience with both that could shed some real comparative light on them?

I'd say that for the money, you're better off getting the real thing. A good bass will appreciate over time and actually act like an investment. Plus, getting your hands on a real bass may draw you completely over the fence.

I don't have experience on both, but I've owned an original BugBass.
For my taste, the NS is much too stick-like. It doesn't have any of the usual physical references of a real bass.
The BugBass has a little neck heel, shoulders, some kind of body.
I'd be very uncomfortable with a NS, which is almost just a long neck.

Just my $0.02

I've played both, and I own a Bug that use for touring and crossover gigs. IMHO, the Bug is closer to the feel and sound of a realbass, while the NS is more like an upright fretless in sound and feel. Both are great instruments. You should also probably check out the Eminence bass. But do yourself a favor and play some realbasses before you buy an EUB; there really is no comparison, and you might want to just skip the EUB step altogether, or save it for later.

Originally posted by Ray Parker
I'd say that for the money, you're better off getting the real thing. A good bass will appreciate over time and actually act like an investment. Plus, getting your hands on a real bass may draw you completely over the fence.

tru ray,

but i guess i'm jumping the gun and wanna get started using an upright-ish type sound on my gigs. these two seem great, but the NS seems more like a toothpick to me, while the Azola's are backlogged a few months.

i had been looking at an Eminence with lots of interest, but i dunno how well it would keep up with my techno, DJ group.

Originally posted by jokerjkny


tru ray,

but i guess i'm jumping the gun and wanna get started using an upright-ish type sound on my gigs. these two seem great, but the NS seems more like a toothpick to me, while the Azola's are backlogged a few months.

i had been looking at an Eminence with lots of interest, but i dunno how well it would keep up with my techno, DJ group.

I have both an Eminence and Moses here now, about 20 mi. South of Atlantic City, if you feel like taking a ride to check the Eminence out. I'm enjoying them both.

The Moses has a top-rounded (removable) block on the back of the neck to simulate the shoulder position.

Originally posted by jokerjkny

two seem great, but the NS seems more like a toothpick to me, while the Azola's are backlogged a few months.

There are sometimes ads for second hand Bugs.
There was one on BobG's site I think. (www.urbbob.com)
You can also check with the Azolas, they can put you in contact with someone who wants to sold his.
mailto:jill@azola.com

She (and Steve) are very nice people.

Originally posted by Bob Gollihur


I have both an Eminence and Moses here now, about 20 mi. South of Atlantic City, if you feel like taking a ride to check the Eminence out. I'm enjoying them both.

The Moses has a top-rounded (removable) block on the back of the neck to simulate the shoulder position.

Thx Bob,

the invitation is very very tempting, but i dont wanna embarass myself with my hack playing in front of someone who actually knows which way an upright should lean... hehe. ideally, i want a floating top bugbass II, but the eminence seems very very cool.

then again looking on your site, your own EUB looks very tempting. Are you still offering to build one for sale?? just curious. i much rather get an instrument from someone who passionately loves to play rather than a faceless company.

I'm just looking for something upright to nicely compliment many of my singer/songwriter friends. alot of the shows they do are coffee houses and small showcases like the Living Room and Arlene's grocery. Supporting an acoustic guitarist/singer with an upright helps the whole show (not to mention myself!!) look and feel classier.

Originally posted by jokerjkny


Thx Bob,

the invitation is very very tempting, but i dont wanna embarass myself with my hack playing in front of someone who actually knows which way an upright should lean... hehe. ideally, i want a floating top bugbass II, but the eminence seems very very cool.

I'll make you a deal- you don't tell anybody about my playing and I won't give away your secrets. ;)


then again looking on your site, your own EUB looks very tempting. Are you still offering to build one for sale?? just curious. i much rather get an instrument from someone who passionately loves to play rather than a faceless company.

I've never offered to build them for anyone; it was a personal project, and while I'm very proud of it, it's not something I want to do.


I'm just looking for something upright to nicely compliment many of my singer/songwriter friends. alot of the shows they do are coffee houses and small showcases like the Living Room and Arlene's grocery. Supporting an acoustic guitarist/singer with an upright helps the whole show (not to mention myself!!) look and feel classier.

C'mon down and check out the Eminence. It's a beautiful instrument.

http://www.doublebass.biz/EminencePhoto.jpg

Is that a Hamilton stand, Bob? Do those actually work with the Eminence?

Originally posted by Christopher
Is that a Hamilton stand, Bob? Do those actually work with the Eminence?

It is a Hamilton stand but it has a special holder at the base to receive the T-shaped pin end that stabilizes the instrument.

Bob,

does this come with a pickup? or do i have to get one like the K&K Sound???

Originally posted by jokerjkny
Bob,

does this come with a pickup? or do i have to get one like the K&K Sound???

It comes with a special type of Gage Realist already installed.

For what it's worth I tried the NS and came to the conclusion it is too much like a fretless electric soundwise. For someone coming from double bass this could be just right for adding another sound, but when coming from bass guitar it seems to miss the point IMHO. I still love the design and would have kept it if only there was more DB character to the sound. I have now ordered an Eminence instead. Should be in my hands tomorrow or the day after...

( multiple :))

Originally posted by jokerjkny
I'm just looking for something upright to nicely compliment many of my singer/songwriter friends. alot of the shows they do are coffee houses and small showcases like the Living Room and Arlene's grocery. Supporting an acoustic guitarist/singer with an upright helps the whole show (not to mention myself!!) look and feel classier.
Here's an alternativ for those acoustic gigs: the Turner Renaissance fretless, it looks and plays really great. If you have a chance, try one.

http://www.renaissanceguitars.com/images/rb5fl.jpg

Another VERY cool alternative is the bowable acoustic bass guitar built by Tobias Schennell. A truly beautiful instrument. I think you can link to it thru Bob's website, or just do a Google search on his name.

I think there maybe one of those on Ebay Uk at the moment if you should care to take a look.

well,

all good comments from everyone and much appreciated, but tho many have commented on how horribly "electric" the NS sounds, what about Azola's Bugbass II and the floating top, Scarab II??

also, has anyone tried Conklin's electric upright that you can sling on your shoulder? tho, it looks cheesy doing that, is there a way to just use it "pogo" style from the floor??

Originally posted by jokerjkny
well,

all good comments from everyone and much appreciated, but tho many have commented on how horribly "electric" the NS sounds, what about Azola's Bugbass II and the floating top, Scarab II??

also, has anyone tried Conklin's electric upright that you can sling on your shoulder? tho, it looks cheesy doing that, is there a way to just use it "pogo" style from the floor??

I played a multi-string Conklin MEU at NAMM last year. Pretty cool. I was surprised how well it stayed in place. There was no alternate play method at the show to my knowledge.

My Bug is a floater with a low B string. It is pretty remarkable as far as its tone is concerned. I just did my first arco recording session with it, on a piece that was written below the range of my DB. I was pleasantly surprised. I've used it on some acid jazz and crossover CDs to great advantage. It's also my bass of choice for salsa. It feels very close to a DB in terms of scale and response. It has a particularly nice fingerboard; I'd like to swipe it and put it on a realbass someday;)

Originally posted by Anders Östberg
I have now ordered an Eminence instead. Should be in my hands tomorrow or the day after...



I would be very interested to hear about your experience on buying an Eminence - I would like to do the same thing but I'm a bit wary about how it will survive shipping to Europe and how much you have to add on for VAT, customs duty etc. ?

Be sure to tell us all about it!

FYI, there *is* a stocking Azola dealer in Edison, NJ ... usually tries to keep a solid body (entry level) BugBass in stock, along with a hollow-body/Spruce top model (Scarab or Floating Top Lightning Bug), and an Acoustic Baby Bass. Presently there are only solid-body BugBasses there - though we do our best to replenish his inventory as quick as we can. We weren't going to chime in here, but if you're in a "test drive" mode in the NY/NJ area ... we thought we should point out the opportunity there. If you make an appointment, and don't feel like driving to Edison, they'll be happy to pick you up at the train station. Since you asked about Azola (and NS) specifically, and others have offered "test drives", I hope it's okay that we posted this little reminder about New Jersey Bass & Guitar. You can find the pertinent phone #, etc at our website. Or email me at your convenience, if you have any specific questions or concerns.

There are also lots of Floating Tops, Scarabs and Acoustic Babies "living" and working in the NYC scene ... so if you'd like to check them out in gigging situations, I can probably hook you up with some players via email to make appropriate arrangements.

Let us know if we can assist further in your "quest".
And thanks for considering one of our instruments.

Sincerely,
Jill Azola
www.azola.com

thx,

but to be honest, i dunno if i should bother if your lead times are backed up 12-24 months??

kinda discourages me from getting one. so, i've relegated myself to either an Eminence or NS which i've been told to try raising the action for a more "acoustic" sound. i'm skeptical, but hey, its still fun to play and its my only complaint.

I haven't played the NS, but I'm guessing that as an alternative to raisng the action, you can pull the following stunt to get a more acoustic sound: Pull nearer the bridge and on the lighter side using more fingertip.

Having a good acoustic sound in your ear (knowing what you actually want it to sound like) will help as well. I can eventually get (almost) the same sound from a $1000 plywood that I do from my good bass if I play it long enough. Because I have the sound in my ear that I want, your brain will work your touch around for you until you get that sound.

Some of the Chimeras (or ironing boards, a la Edgar) have the wrong angles across the bridge which give you funny string tension, and in that case it's likely impossible to make the thing sound like a real, amplified bass. Why the makers do this I'll never understand. My guess is that the original idea is to make them smaller and more portable, but I think that the hit that is taken soundwise would have stopped that experiment long ago.

Originally posted by jokerjkny
thx,

but to be honest, i dunno if i should bother if your lead times are backed up 12-24 months??

kinda discourages me from getting one. so, i've relegated myself to either an Eminence or NS which i've been told to try raising the action for a more "acoustic" sound. i'm skeptical, but hey, its still fun to play and its my only complaint.

Hey, if you're the guy that I spoke with (at Bass Central) a couple days ago, you must have misunderstood me: I said 20-24 weeks not months!!! :eek: :)

...hey Steve & Jill, thanks for the head's up, sorry for the misunderstanding.

DOH!!!!

dood, my bad! but still, 6 months is still a pretty long time, but sorry for the confusion... so, i'll add another...

DOH!!!

Okay, one more clarification ...
the maximum leadtime is quoted on a new special order instrument. Yes, it's true we have about six months' worth of delivery commitments on the books. But many of those commitments are stocking orders for our dealers. Most of our dealers tend to stock the entry level, solid-body BugBasses. But several are really good about bringing in the more sophisticated hollow body and Spruce top models. *If* a particular dealer already has a bass on order with us ... which is not already spoken for ... and which meets your specific needs ... then BINGO! They may have placed the order with us in November, and the bass is for their stock ... so nothing should prevent it from becoming yours within a more reasonable timeframe. So once you figure out what you really want, let us try to help you find the quickest way to get it into your hands. If you've been in touch with any of our dealers, I would have thought somebody out there should have explained things to you this way?? But if you're confused, or they're confused, just call me .. that's what I'm here for.

By the way, I'm sure it probably works this way with other manufacturers too.

- Jill Azola
www.azola.com
Tel 760.789.8581

Joker, sorry to post on a long dead thread, but, after owning a few EUB's which do you prefer and why? I think you have had an emmie, NS CR4m, azola? Is this right?
I want an eub also...I don't think I am a purist who has to have the closet UB sound possible but then again... I don't really know what I want yet.
Any input you have would be greatly appreciated! I am looking at a floating top Azola, NS CR4M, and an emmie, so....

Yamark,

I have used an NS CR4M since late last year, mostly in an "unplugged" setting backing up a vocalist, but also in a jazz quartet, septet, and big band.

Out of the case, with stock strings, it does tend to sound like a "fretless on steroids" as some have said. A string change does wonders. I am now using Superflexibles and with my ContraII amp, get a pretty good acoustic sound using only the bridge (pizeo) bickup in the "both" position. The Helicore Hybrids also offer a better acoustic type sound, and I think these are being made now for NS in their shorter length.

I haven't tried much arco yet.... trying to learn that for my acoustic.

Regards, Alex

Yamark,

I have used an NS CR4M since late last year, mostly in an "unplugged" setting backing up a vocalist, but also in a jazz quartet, septet, and big band.

Out of the case, with stock strings, it does tend to sound like a "fretless on steroids" as some have said. A string change does wonders. I am now using Superflexibles and with my ContraII amp, get a pretty good acoustic sound using only the bridge (pizeo) bickup in the "both" position. The Helicore Hybrids also offer a better acoustic type sound, and I think these are being made now for NS in their shorter length.



Yes - I found exactly the same thing - along with trying to play more like DB - pulling across the strings, etc. :)

In my own limited experience, the NS basses are beautiful to behold, but the two Azolas I've played sound much more like an upright bass. The NS didn't have a neck heel, which made finding my way kind of difficult without looking for position markers. And the magnetic pickups didn't make it at all for me.

I am reallly leaning towards an Azola (floating top), I just listened to some recordings of Rob Wasserman playing his NS design (w/ Govt mule, solo disc, Ratdog, etc) and it does sound like a big fretless BG. Maybe it is the way that he plays the bass ot the way he EQ's it but, either way, it doesn
t sound like a DB!

What do you guys do to help the sound of the NS design to make it sound more like a DB? is it EQ? technique? Thanks

What do you guys do to help the sound of the NS design to make it sound more like a DB? is it EQ? technique? Thanks

I found all those things made a difference, so :

1.Raising the action is very easy and makes it sound more like amped DB.

2. Get some "real" DB strings - they make a big difference to the sound - much less like a big fretless BG with these!

3. Play it as much like a DB as you can, pulling across the strings and not using BG techniques - use open strings more etc. etc.

4. Amplification is crucial - through my "Hi Fi" EA cabs, it sounds much more like DB than when I play through other types of amplification - e.g. I played through a 100 watt Peavey combo (not by choice!!) and I might as well have been playing BG!!

5. Don't use the magnetic pickups - I have piezos-only on mine, as I found these were much more convincing and have BGs if I want that sound!

OK long dead thread...anyone got any updates on these comments...

IMHO, the choice of strings is the most crucial with an EUB.
But I think Bruce really brought the most important points!