I wasn't sure where on TB to put this so I thought I'd go with this forum.

I'm really curious about what players consider their personal aspiration for playing the bass?

Let me give you some background ...

I've recently landed a gig as the "First Sunday" bass player in my church. I'll also be doing some playing with our various choirs when they travel and for special events. I've been working hard to learn the songs and I'm very comfortable that I'll be able to do an excellent job in this role.

Although the material is challenging for me as an intermediate bassist, there's nothing here that will (ever) require me to become the next incarnation of Jaco or Stanley -- and guess what -- I am TOTALLY cool with that.

Understanding that one always wants to get better (and that is my continuing goal), I am realistic about the fact that I am never going to become a Bass virtuoso. More importantly, with a full-time job and being a divorced parent, I am not able or willing to devote the kind of time that it would take to do so. It's hard enough for me to carve out 45 minutes a day to practice.

Having said that, I don't think I need to have Wooten-esque chops to enjoy playing the bass and that is NOT my aspiration. I just want to play well, have my bass ideas make musical sense, and hold down the groove. If I can do that every time I play, it will be a great thing.

I am wondering -- how many other folks here are in about the same boat as me? That is, "You play well enough to be good enough -- and that's good enough for you."

remember why you picked up bass to begin with and dont forget it.

TO ROCK THE LOW END and HAVE FUN doing it

whatever else happens happens, you should always push yourself to improve!

Great post, Iota.
I'm in a similar place - full time gig, family that I love and want to spend time with, a couple of other very important hobbies. It's hard to balance family, work, martial arts (which also requires a commitment of practice and time) and music.
I bounce back and forth... I feel driven to improve my playing. Sometimes it makes me crazy. Other times I just feel like singing and playing and experiencing and sharing the beauty of music, and honestly, that brings a lot of sanity back into my life and into my playing.
But I still keep working on getting better, in part because it allows me to express that love of music more fully and in different ways.

I'm in the same boat....but I never really stop learning. That's one of best things about playing - you're always learning something no matter what level you're at.

I just want to get better. I would like to get better at theory, reading charts, and I want to get a good handle on double thumbing.:bassist:

Yup. Sounds like me. Wanna improve every day, but enjoying the ride is why I do it. No delusions of grandeur here.

I think this is a great post topic too. One thing about virtuousity to consider is: do I really like the music virtuosos produce, or am I just awed by the technique and innovation? If the answer is the former, then I think it's worthwhile at least striving to get as much of the technical part down as possible. If the answer is negative, then just play what you like and don't worry whether anyone will ever single you out as a chops monster. For myself, I'm drawn to great basslines and grooves, which are often simple technically, and mostly require good timing and feel. You can often learn them without much effort---but creating them is another story. My goal is to create a memorable bassline that serves the song, and perhaps one that someone else someday "cites" in their own playing.

I wasn't sure where to put this so I thought I try this forum.

I'm really curious about what players consider their personal aspiration for playing the bass?

Let me give you some background ...

I've recently landed a gig as the "First Sunday" bass player in my church. I'll also be doing some playing with our various choirs when they travel and for special events. I've been working hard to learn the songs and I'm very comfortable that I'll be able to do an excellent job in this role.

Although the material is challenging for me as an intermediate bassist, there's nothing here that will (ever) require me to become the next incarnation of Jaco or Stanley -- and guess what -- I am TOTALLY cool with that.

Understanding that one always wants to get better (and that is my continuing goal), I am realistic about the fact that I am never going to become a Bass virtuoso. More importantly, with a full-time job and being a divorced parent, I am not able or willing to devote the kind of time that it would take to do so. It's hard enough for me to carve out 45 minutes a day to practice.

Having said that, I don't think I need to have Wooten-esque chops to enjoy playing the bass and that is NOT my aspiration. I just want to play well, have my bass ideas make musical sense, and hold down the groove. If I can do that every time I play, it will be a great thing.

I am wondering -- how many other folks here are in about the same boat as me? That is, "You play well enough to be good enough -- and that's good enough for you."

My original inspiration came from obscure low end thumpers from equally obscure proto-metal bands of the 60s and early 70s. I don't think anyone would consider them virtuosos, certainly not by modern standards, but that's a relative term anyway. I dug what they did and wanted to play like that. Anyway, chops are one thing, but playing bass is as much about integrating your style as it is showing it off. Learning to play what's right for the song can be just as challenging as perfecting your skill, so I think technical virtuosity can be overrated and even a handicap if it's demonstrated at the expense of other musicians or if the song suffers because of it.

I'm totally in this boat. I play bass at church, and for my band...at church my role is to hold the bottom end. I get some freedom to do what I want, when I want, but there's no pressure to "insert double tapping solo here" or "insert Stanley Clarke" here or whatever. I play the parts I want to play and I play the parts that will fit in the song.

With my other band it's more of the same. i have more freedom to play what I want, but still the focus is on having fun and enjoying what I'm doing...there's definitely a part of me that wants to continue to improve and I know that I have more fun when I can be creative with what I'm doing, but at the same time no one's putting pressure on me to "get good or get out". I'm having fun and what I'm doing now is just fine for the band. Getting better is just an added bonus for me and the rest of my band members.

You will find some of the best player are musicians who play for their own enjoyment, especially Jazz players. When you have to make a living with your playing unless your a Wooten or one of the small handfuls of true virtuoso player you are having to please someone who signs the check. That tends to mean playing inside the lines, spending time learning the current hot tunes and playing styles, keeping your reading chops up, making contacts and hustling gigs. When your playing for yourself and getting together with others in similar situation you can play what you want and if someone doesn't like it, no big deal its not going to cost you money. You still want good musicianship skills so others enjoy playing with you, they might just think your taste is weird sometimes.

When I stopped playing guitar for a living, my playing improved so much. I was taking more chances in my playing and practicing some really advanced stuff. I was getting more respect for my playing and guys wanting my to teach them. So not worrying about paying bills I could be more myself.

I just wanna play.

I know I'll never invest the time to compete with the Wootens of the bass world, so I try to focus on executing things with competence and consistency.

to that end, I aim for virtuoso competence :)

:cool: There will always be better players than you and always worse ones. Besides, better is a relative term. I have heard players with blazing speed and technical virtuosity and I get completely bored of hearing them play after a while. Good groove and feel and time is in your heart and soul more than in your hands. If you are rocking the band (the bassists #1 job) ,in the pocket and having fun, it's all good. With that said , it takes a lifetime of practice and experience to perfect and maintain that art!

You will find some of the best player are musicians who play for their own enjoyment, especially Jazz players. When you have to make a living with your playing unless your a Wooten or one of the small handfuls of true virtuoso player you are having to please someone who signs the check. That tends to mean playing inside the lines, spending time learning the current hot tunes and playing styles, keeping your reading chops up, making contacts and hustling gigs. When your playing for yourself and getting together with others in similar situation you can play what you want and if someone doesn't like it, no big deal its not going to cost you money. You still want good musicianship skills so others enjoy playing with you, they might just think your taste is weird sometimes.

When I stopped playing guitar for a living, my playing improved so much. I was taking more chances in my playing and practicing some really advanced stuff. I was getting more respect for my playing and guys wanting my to teach them. So not worrying about paying bills I could be more myself.

I totally agree. There's something liberating about playing what you really like or want to, as well as taking creative initiatives that are shunned in cover bands and similar scenarios.

So the odd issue is indeed that those who want to live on music have to tone down, while those who play occasionally in jam-like scenarios could become more interesting players.

There's always also the compromise approach - make your money the boring way and enlist in interesting configurations now and then. --Kent

I love being a pocket player with no flash. Its what made me start and its what keeps me going. I love seeing the flash but not for me.

My personal opinion is that if you're not playing for enjoyment, why are you playing in the first place? Playing just to "become a virtuoso" is a pretty illogical reason to play an instrument, given that it's hardly a financially rewarding pursuit. I have sunk an unbelievable amount of time and money into my art, and I continue to spend more and more time and money, far beyond the amount I rake in by playing. Perhaps at some point it may pay off financially, but if it doesn't I really don't care.

The people who go in really caring about being a virtuoso usually fail. If you play for enjoyment you can't fail.

I just wanna play.

+1 I took this up as a hobby when I retired at the end of last year. I have no idea where this is going.

I'm having fun being what/who I am, A hack in a cover band... If I get better along the way, then so be it! I do know some people who approach thier learning like a competition, & they're NEVER satisfied, & ultimately quit to find some other challenge.

When you play bass, or any other instrument for that matter, the main goal is enjoying yourself. You set yourself goals, consciously or not, and when you meet them you're happy. Some people have virtuosity as a goal, the closer they are to achieving that, the more enjoyment they get from playing. Some people just wanna get out and play, so the more they do that, the happier they get. Some people just want to play so they can have little jams with friends should the situation arise, and when they're able to do that they pull enjoyment.

For me my personal enjoyment isn't in becoming a virtuoso, its playing in a band and making music with others. I set goals, and when I meet them, I set others.

You see greats like Jaco, Wooten, Clarke, Manring, they didn't set off with the goal of becoming a virtuoso in mind. They just have a drive to constantly keep pushing themselves.

I think being a virtuoso at an instrument has to be in the person before they become that person. I believe that not everyone that picks up an instrument can get to that level, no matter how hard and long they practice. I also believe in learning the basics FIRST and FOREMOST before any crazy tricks or techniques. If you can double thump like Victor you better also be able to groove like Jamerson, well maybe not exactly like Jamerson but you know that I mean.

I've been a guitarist for 20 years and I've had the gift in music in me since I was 3 years old. That's when I played my first song on the piano. All my life I was bragged about by my family and told what a great pianist I was going to be one day, but I hated the piano. I loved guitar and later bass. I would practice for 4-6 hours a night during high school but in my senior year I was told by my father that he would pay for any college degree I wanted, but NOT a music degree. So I did what every angry young man does when his parents upset him, I rebelled. It was then when I lost the desire to become one of the best guitar players in the world, and I became a working man, and a party man. Music was only a hobby that I rarely spent time on.

A few years later, after I got cleaned up and found the Lord, I have this new found love in being a better bassist. I know I won't ever become like Stanley or Jaco but I do believe I can be a go-to-guy when it comes to being a player you can count on to be solid and in the pocket. I know that the kind of music I play in my band, progressive rock fusion, I have to be on my toes. Maybe not a virtuoso but I have to know my stuff. That, in turn, leads me to be a better player in my church and in other churches I play in. There's no better feeling than for the worship leader to turn around and look you in the eye and tell you, "You did great, Thank you." I guess that's my drive.

I'm still young, and i do have the free time and patience to put the required time into my playing. i'm not tied down with a family/kids, and don't plan to be for a long time, and if nothing unexpected comes up, i plan on getting an education in music. if i can ever play at the level of john myung, or steve digiorgio, or victor wooten, or john patitiucci, I'll be more than happy, but if i find myself in a situation where i can no-longer dedicate my life to music, then I'll probably end up in the same boat as you guys. not sure if i'm contributing much to this thread, but i figured there should be some input from someone who is in a situation where becoming a "Virtuoso" is currently a realistic goal. that said, who knows what life has in store? there have been enough surprises for me over the past few months that i can't say for sure that I'll ever know what my goals are:p

If you play for enjoyment you can't fail.

Yep, hunta nailed it.

There's a reason it's called playing music.

Me, I like to practice, and jam with friends a few nights a week. I've participated in the occasional coffee house gig, as well. I get pleasure from all of it. Yes, I want to get better, because the better my playing, the more fun I'll have, and the more fun the folks who play with me will have. Truthfully, I think that if I practice consistently and jam a lot, I'll become much, much better over the next 20 years. I chose my signature for a reason: getting better at any skill takes a lifetime, and virtuosity is a worthy goal. Virtuosity just for the sake of dazzling technical prowess, though, I can do without. I care about improving my skills only because it will make playing music more fun.

If I'm not enjoying it why the heck am I doing it in the first place?

This was a great post and I agree.

You shouldn't be expected to become a virtuoso either (this is an opinion I've encountered a lot from people I know).

Have fun when playing! I often enjoy playing the most simple bass lines ever just because the music or the band is great.

Also Hunta, sig'd.

I think being a virtuoso at an instrument has to be in the person before they become that person. I believe that not everyone that picks up an instrument can get to that level, no matter how hard and long they practice.

+1.

Some people will never get to that level of greatness, and I am one of those. My strengths lie more in groove, feel, and dynamics. But there are many of the advanced technics that I will never master, and I'm OK with that. I have fun playing in my various bands, all low-level fun stuff. I get a few compliments from other musicians I play with, mostly along the lines of "solid" and "good groove". But you won't see me tapping or double-thumbing.

I always dream big. When I first got into bass I automatically assume that I'll be the next legend, even though I just started a year ago and am already 24. I know that sounds too cocky but if I'm going to hope I'll shoot for the stars. Does not matter if I get into that level. In my dying breath either I reached my dream of becoming a bass god level my idols have reached (jaco, wooten, etc.), or be content with the fact that my time had been short. I'm not going to accept quitting between now and that time. I don't know, maybe the bass was really for me. At the minimum level I want something nice to pass onto my children, like basics of the bass, and for them to build upon.

When I first started playing I wanted to be the fastest, ,most accurate player ever.... that was many, many years ago. I accomplished alot for myself over the years but unfortunatly my hands just can't do what the once could.
My normal job is VERY demanding on my hands and this has helped to wear them out even faster... If not for my exercise routine, I would probably have lost the majority of my ability. I have focused on what I have forgotten about music and theory and trying to relearn all that was once forgotten. I enjoy teaching my students and anyone else who wants to learn...
As far as bands go, I just want to have fun playing. Locking in with my drummer and watching people enjoy the music I am playing for them..

Advice for you younger guys....
Get a job that doesn't require the over usage of your hands. Make a hand exercise routine DAILY and stick with it.

HAVE FUN!

Everybody has different aspirations...

Some people wanna "master" every technique there is, some people want to be able to fit into all musical styles no matter what kind of bass they have in their hands, some people just want to be able to write what they feel and some people just want to play along with a band.

Personally, I have no clue what my aspirations are really. I'm in a band, and I always want to "get better", but I suppose your definition of "get better" has a lot to do with your aspirations as well. I like alt rock MUSIC, but I prefer funk BASS...mixing the two and making it expressive is one of my goals in life. I'm not quite satisfied with where I am but I hope I never am (that's when you know you've stopped trying), but I'm not some jerk who thinks that somebody has to be able to play YYZ blindfolded before they can be allowed to play a bass because of some esoteric group of idiots who happened to have bought the same instrument that we all play.

Anybody who requires more of themself than what is expected by the average listener has my respect, no matter what style or genre.

Learnin' and Burnin'. That's my goal. As music teacher I feel it's important for me to be practicing and performing, otherwise I have no position to encourage kids to do the same. I love practicing and working out playing goals for myself. Getting on stage with the guys in the band puts that all together and keeps me in touch with why its important to help kids have music in their lives.

I eventually came to the realisation that I wasn't going to be a professional bass player with slick chops and impeccable technique recording on everyone's albums.

At first I was very disappointed. Then I realised I could put the same effort into my chosen profession. Having just entered my final year at university and looking forward to a great career (touch wood); I'm comfortable with being an amateur bass player who does it because he loves it. And I'll be able to pay the bills and buy some nice gear because I diverted my energy into my education.

Now I'm very happy about the situation.

EDIT: Having said that, I still take the hobby very seriously and I'm always working to improve myself as a musician. I even went as far as getting private lessons from top notch teacher. There's always something to learn in the world of jazz and improvisation. Infact, the more I learn the more I realise how much I don't know.

One thing about virtuousity to consider is: do I really like the music virtuosos produce, or am I just awed by the technique and innovation?

This question sums up my feelings about playing bass, and to some extent about music more generally. I like to learn complex tunes and patterns for the sake of my technique and as a challenge, but most of the music I play and listen to has simple bass lines that are all about laying down a foundation and listening to the overall sound. They're about feel, and definitely not about speed and complexity. I usually like music because of an overall feel, or maybe because I really like the writing, or because of the way a rhythm section clicks--but never because one player, especially a bassist, demonstrates incredible technical ability in the form of speed and complexity.

I started playing bass 25 years ago. I had a few years of recording and touring in the early 90s, but since then I haven't pursued music as my main project. I play with two groups now, and it's my social life more than anything else.

Great, thoughtful post. Puts worry about practice time and gear acquisition neuroses right in perspective, and reminds me about doing it all for fun. Thanks.

There are people who have hobbies and people who have talents. Some people have both. Unless talent is cultivated, it is not going to go anywhere. Just for the sake of an example (it may get me into trouble but I'm willing to take the chance), Jaco would not achieved the level of greatness he deserved unless he put all the time and effort he did. His talent, originality and dedication along with the effort he put, drove him to this legendary status. I am just a dedicated hobbyist who has a great time, does some original things sometimes, that's it that's all

For me, it will be a hobby. I just want to keep learning, even though, some techniques, such as double thumbing, tapping, etc., will take some time. As long as playing is fun, I will keep doing it. For those who want to become the next bass god, it can be tough road...even with the great technical skills may not get you recognized, you just have catch a break, here and there. Jaco caught his break with Weather Report and Marcus, with Miles.

Someone will have to explain to me why being a virtuoso isn't fun. I would think that aspiring to be the best you can be goes hand in hand with fun. In fact there is nothing more fun than finally playing that passage that has driven you crazy for weeks as you developed it or learned.

Regardless of what you aspire to, fun must be a part of it. Sure there are folks who are not motivated this way but most are and if they are having fun while accomplishing great things more the better.

Spin

I'm not sure why I picked up the bass in the first place. My friends all had guitars and I liked to be different :D

But now my focus has really shifted to being a musician, not just a bassist. The bass is just one of the tools that I use best. That being said, I love playing because it's the best instrument. Guitars seem silly and weak to me :D
In the end, it's all about bringing the thunder :bassist::bassist::bassist:

Great thread.

I'm just a fingerstyle groove player. I've had a great time playing in cover bands in years past. Now I'm having a great time contributing to original projects. I never devoted the time to refine a wide range of techniques, but I feel that I can bring a good game in a fingerstyle rock context.

Some folks only think of "improvement" in terms of technique, but I feel that the *judgment* component can not be ignored. I may not be a much better technical player now than I was fifteen years ago, but I have much better judgment about parts now. The more I play, and the more music I listen to, the better my frame of reference for choosing the right parts to fit the song (within the constraints of my technique toolbox, of course).

Have you ever listened to a part you recorded a decade ago, and thought "What was I thinking there? I should have played it *this* way!" That's a fairly good indication that your judgment as a player has evolved/improved.

Still having fun being creative and jamming with others! Hope to keep doing it for a long time.

Not trying to sound full of myself (okay that's impossible), but I've reached a technical peak in my area of interest... "rock".

In order to become better, I've found that I need to express myself creatively rather than physically on the bass. Sure, I could add more strings and get my finger speed up, but what's that worth if I don't know where it fits in a song?

I believe becoming a virtuoso is far more than just being able to play Rush flawlessly.

Yes, creativity is usually more interesting that being technically brilliant -- not that having more technicality will make you do more creative playing...

Anyway, I think the audience likes creative playing, not boring technical showdowns... --Kent

I strive to be the best I can be and though I almost failed out of high school just so I can become as good as I can. I ended up joining the military and now I am using the time I have here to study and audition for the Navy Band. here I can hone my skills and get a degree and have a constant steady gig while traveling and playing with all sorts of musicians. All this stems from a meeting I had with a guitarist who I saw play something short of miraculous on the guitar. Take it as inspiration; I take it as a life lesson. Why fall short of what you are able to accomplish? I learn more and more everyday and will not stop after 12 years. To be a virtuoso to ones self is what matters, no one might notice you but at least you can say you are an accomplished musician.

i like playing my bass. if being a virtuoso happens thats cool but i'm gonna be just as satisfied with not becoming one.

I've found recently that I had been letting virtuoso bass players and phenomenal bands negatively affect my playing.

Gradually I have been correcting this negativity by leaving my ego aside and just embracing their talents as opposed to thinking, ''damn, I have to play 6 hrs a day to be this good, I'm never going to get there''.

The more I've relaxed, the more I enjoy playing, and I'd say I've improved and got even closer to finding my true voice which is what I strive for bit by bit whenever I pick up my bass.

Long time ago I considered attempting to be a professional as well; and like ET3 Hernandez, wisely decided to go into the military. Thing was, I knew folks 35 years ago that could play just as well as today's Vic Wooten, Les Claypool...keep naming names. But in order to make a living doing it, as has been pointed out, you've got to please someone else. There's lots of session players that can reproduce anybody's sound and technique - that's what they get paid to do. They just don't happen to have a unique sound, or be in a unique sounding group and never got some wax peddler's attention.
I try to learn interesting riffs for the pleasure of being able to amuse myself. I play with friends soley for the fun of that. In order to do both of those things well enough to please myself, I find I have to practice scales, Bach organ fugue basslines and other little drills - no different than an amateur tennis player who knocks balls off a wall. Not much of a game if you can't return your partner's serves.
I think the virtuosos out there have (a) raw talent in the form of good hearing, finger dexterity and whatever else it is and (b) practice their a****s off - trying to do things they can't do, which is unpleasant hard work. The reason we know who they are is because they have a unique sound and managed to get a promoter's attention.

when i started playing bass, i was 19. my progress was very fast, a lot of old players thought that i was playing for years, but that time i was just playing only for 3 months. i was agressive and show off. then one time during an audition, i met this very very good bass player. i knew him personally, we jam a lot. he plays lead, i play the groove. but when i saw him play live, he was so simple, but very solid. i felt so ashamed of myself, i got limited knwledge of bass and trying to show off, while this guy, just laid it out with simplicity, ease and smooth. from that time, i became like him, not as good as him but tried to play like him. solid, in the pocket, no flash. that year also, i said to myself, when i'm 30, i will be the best in my country. now i'm 38, working musician abroad, i'm with the same band for 9 years now, bored of playing with them but no choice because it's my JOB. i'm not bad at all, a lot of people say i'm a good player. but i'm not the best either. all i have is my years of experience. i managed to get some studio sessions, but not that much. i play in hotels and pubs, it's my way of living. why did this happen? well, i became busy with family, personal and band problems, i get fed up from time to time. i stop and then i start practicing again. i'm not consistent. i have a dream that someday to play in a big stadium, but right now i can't see any lights that leads to that. i do the thing that i love for LIVING. sad but true. but i'm always saying to myself, it's never too late to achieve a dream, i just need to continue practicing and learning. play with my heart and try to be good, but i guess not the best. i'm a realistic person, i know what i can and what i can't reach. for now i just wanna be good, again. and i think i'm doing just fine right now.:)

i play for my enjoyment. like a good hobby or something, but i still want to improve my playing

when i started playing bass, i was 19. my progress was very fast, a lot of old players thought that i was playing for years, but that time i was just playing only for 3 months. i was agressive and show off. then one time during an audition, i met this very very good bass player. i knew him personally, we jam a lot. he plays lead, i play the groove. but when i saw him play live, he was so simple, but very solid. i felt so ashamed of myself, i got limited knwledge of bass and trying to show off, while this guy, just laid it out with simplicity, ease and smooth. from that time, i became like him, not as good as him but tried to play like him. solid, in the pocket, no flash. that year also, i said to myself, when i'm 30, i will be the best in my country. now i'm 38, working musician abroad, i'm with the same band for 9 years now, bored of playing with them but no choice because it's my JOB. i'm not bad at all, a lot of people say i'm a good player. but i'm not the best either. all i have is my years of experience. i managed to get some studio sessions, but not that much. i play in hotels and pubs, it's my way of living. why did this happen? well, i became busy with family, personal and band problems, i get fed up from time to time. i stop and then i start practicing again. i'm not consistent. i have a dream that someday to play in a big stadium, but right now i can't see any lights that leads to that. i do the thing that i love for LIVING. sad but true. but i'm always saying to myself, it's never too late to achieve a dream, i just need to continue practicing and learning. play with my heart and try to be good, but i guess not the best. i'm a realistic person, i know what i can and what i can't reach. for now i just wanna be good, again. and i think i'm doing just fine right now.:)

Now, if you think you miss something, even if you were super-super-good, it is like winning a lottery ticket for getting to a position to either play original material with technical chops (that market is tiny) or end up in a big band playing arenas, but seldom with any technical skills needed, still a lottery system where very, very few could get to that point.

It's never late to just start side projects and do more complex music with other musicians who like playing such material. It is actually quite good, as you could play out things you really want to play from time to time, but don't have a chance doing with the regular band(s).

Attending jam sessions is another way to let the creativity out.

I'm myself not that interesting in complex technical skills, rather how to take an instrument with four or five strings, that really belongs side by side with the percussion/drumming section, and make it swing and at the same time sound creative. That's a really good challenge. As part of that some more technical skills that I have is required, so that's my motivation to do boring exercises to get to the chops and scales I want to play as part of the low end rumble.

--Kent

I just want to play and write good music.

My dream was to be a success in a band context.
Didn't happen and I took a few side trips (straight jobs, school).
I did support myself for a few years as a pro in cover bands and starved in a few original bands.

I feel I didn't promote myself enough, didn't make the most of some opportunities, or lay out goals and come up with strategies to hit those goals.

But, no worries and no regrets. I've had some GREAT times on and off the musical trail!

I play well and am still learning a lot! I feel very fortunate!!

There's no way in the world I could ever become a virtuoso even if I wanted to. I've worked in the trades and trade-related fields all my life and my hands have really taken a beating. You can only break so many bones and get so many stitches before the dexterity suffers. I had to give up guitar and keyboards about 18 years ago and switched to bass.Been loving it ever since. Been with my current band about three years now. Talented players and singers but real raw rookies. I hold every thing together. That's my job. I hang in the background thumping away, just getting off on the groove, the audience, and the floor show. I'll be fifty-five in a few months and the fact that I can still stand up there for two or three hours holding up a very heavy bass(Alembic Spoiler) and haul equipment at 2am just thrills me to no end. I look to the Stanley Clarke and Marcus Miller types as a great inspiration but the Timothy B. Schmidt, Tom Hamilton, and Paul McCartney types taught me how to have fun with the bass. I guess it all boils down to what gives you the most reward. BTW, I played a gig with this band about a year ago with my left hand, my fret hand, all bandaged up. I ripped open my hand between my pinkie and ring finger that day and played the gig with a bunch of stitches and a lot of pain, but, as they say, the show must go on.
John

I always want to improve, but I'm also very lazy...so I usually only practice a couple hours per week...I really need to work on my motivation as most days it's just not there after getting home from work, exercising and cooking dinner/doing chores :scowl: I also had carpal tunnel so that destroyed my motivation when I actually had the chance to be really good, at least now with my reduced playing it doesn't bother me anymore.

Most of my favorite bass lines are relatively simple anyway :smug:

I started playing three years ago because I wanted to be the bass player at my church. Three years later, that is exactly what I am. Not a very challenging gig but the little ol' ladies at church think I am doing a fine job and I enjoy the fellowship that comes from being part of the choir.

My other bass ambition was to play jazz, and two years ago I had the opportunity to play with the Jazz Ensemble at my college (I am a Math instructor). I still play with them, and my goal is to improve as a jazz musician, maybe even start my own trio, and so the challenge for me is to develop that side of my playing. I have Ed Friedland's "Building Walking Bass Lines" but don't use it nearly as much as I should.

But the best part of playing bass has been its effect on my children. My 13-year-old son plays drums and piano and my 8-year-old daughter plays piano. We jam at least once a week.

I started playing bass last November, but I've played guitar for 35 years. It's the same thing in the guitar world. Some guys want to be the next Hendrix or Clapton, but that's an excercise in futility. You are what you are, no more and no less, and as long as your goals are not to be the next SRV but rather to be the best you can be (to paraphrase the Army theme) you'll be all right. That's all I'm aspiring to in my foray into the bass world. Hold down a groove, get to know the fretboard, and have a blast playing this wonderful and fun-to-play instrument.

Reread this thread today as part of working through some frustrations with my playing.
Some good stuff here.

I saw this thread bumped, i had forgotten i posted earlier.

but today my reaction the the thread was a little different...

I read: "Playing for enjoyment vs. becoming a virtuoso?"

It thought: what about playing for the audience?

I suppose that personal enjoyment is probably a given for most of us. Aiming for virtuosity can seem like a 'higher' motivation than selfish pleasure, but the older I get the more I see communicating some kind of joy (or moment of musical absorption) to the listener as a worthy motivation.

just a thought...

I Love playing Bass. Im only young so I like to think i can only get better. I try to play with as many musicians as possible and learn from them. There will always be better players than you but if you do a job playing the bass and it works for the song then in my opinion, you are a good player.

I've spent quite some fair time working in some sort of customer service related work, I'm thankful it's taught me that the world should slow down a little.

I play because I love the sound the bass makes, I play for myself and if that look on life turns me into a virtuoso, so be it. If not all I have lost is a lifetime bringing joy into someone's life, even if it's only mine.

I have a full time real job and a social life and all that so virtuosity is already out of the question. I'm just trying to have fun, make music that I enjoy and have a record I give to my grandkids as an mp73 one day.

That being said I have a specific set of goals in mind, stuff like...be able to competently play Jazz, be able to transcribe with ease...ext. These are all things I work on...every time I get close to finishing the list new stuff just sorta winds up on it.

I'm also my harshest critic so I will probably end up being better than I give myself credit for. I like jam stuff and other improvisational forms of music for this reason as well...once its over its over, music of and for the moment, it starts to become more of a release of stress than a source of it. Its already out over and done with the second I play it and all I can do is listen back and think about what I did well and what I can do better next time.

It wasn't important for me to become a virtuoso the level of a Victor Wooten, but it was important for me to develop a level of skill where I could competently play anything that was thrown at me or anything that I wrote. That's what it took for me to be happy with my playing.

These days I probably spend a little too much time on here and not enough woodshedding, but I still try to improve. I believe people should try to improve, but I also believe that music isn't a life or death issue, and the sun will still come up if someone decides that they learned enough to be happy playing music. So have fun at your own speed.

I have a good enough level to play the notes I have in my head.
Sometimes it's very simple, sometimes a bit more challenging.
I don't see myself as a virtuoso though and don't have the will to become one.

Personally im hoping that since i started young enough and stick with dedication I can aheive my goals in bass playing. That goal is to have fun and enjoy the journey hopefully picking up some killer chops on the way

I want to do music for a living. If I happen to somehow achieve virtuosic technical ability along the way, that's cool, but it's not an end that I have in mind.

I play for enjoyment - but I also enjoy listening to players who are virtuosic - it's like the highest expression of the art form or simply - look what you can do with this!! :eek:

I feel that the better you get the more you enjoy it and the more you understand about all the great music that's out there!

So I never really "got" Jazz until I tried to play it and now I love listening to it and going to gigs etc - can't get enough! :)

I know I'll never be a virtuoso or even good enough to be in an orchestra - but I know that when I see the Berlin Philharmonic tonight, playing some impossibly virtuosic music - then I will enjoy it all the more as I know a tiny bit about what it takes to do that!! :)

I play for enjoyment, and because I love hearing other people play. It's cool to play bass, because everyone wants someone to accompany them - a bass can play with almost anyone! My goals are to be the best accompanist (sp?) that I can be, easy to play with, adaptable, flexible etc. I also want the best possible tone. A beautifully played bass note really speaks to me, I like sustain and rich warm mellow sound more than speed. I admire virtually every style of bass playing though, and have a great deal of fun emulating people way better than myself.

When I started, about a year and a half ago, I never thought I'd get remotely good enough to try out to play with anyone, but actually, looks like I have regular playing partners and may try to start a small jazz ensemble at work - just for fun. I'll never be a virtuoso (at any instrument), but I want to keep improving and bettering myself, just the same.

So much to learn, all of it is fun.

This is a great thread.
Like many i picked up bass in school so that i could play in bands with mates, have a laugh, and maybe try and impress a few girls :)
Over the last couple years though i have started to pursue it a bit more, pick up more work, and now its getting to the point where i have made time in my life to practice at least 3 hours a day, sometimes up to 7 or 8, depending on what i'm doing.
I really enjoy doing this and am having a great time playing gigs most weekends, and doing some recording sessions in the week, not to mention im blessed to be in a situation to do so however i must admit sometimes it does get to be to much and i'm left looking for that feeling i had when i use to jam with mates, playing offspring and blink 182 covers during the summers of highschool.
OH well, life is still good i cant complain, not many things will ever be better than playing an amazin gig, or finishing recording an awesome song

My goal when i went back to playing in a band was that ..to play in a band again and to play bass this time. I was a decent guitar player in my last band in High school at the time it was 25 years ago.

As an adult i went to bass and into bands where i am now. I never wanted anything more than to learn songs and gig. I dont study theory or care to. I only work on my songs i need to know,scales and knowing my fretboard. I dont slap and pop much unless Im goofin off or in a rare song onstage...rare.

But I am having fun a blast and I'm known as i have been told as a good solid pocket player with good meter and ear.Thats all i need and all i care about.

I never liked and still dont care for Bass solo's or Bass virtuoso albums ex.Wooten etc. I think they are great very talented but its not what the role of bass is for me. Bass is the engine room the drive with the drums. Give me the old groovers and movers of the bass world and i'm down..a bass solo and ZZZZZZZZZZ. Im happy being a simple pocket bass player thank you. No virtuoso here never will be.

I think it begs the question, what is a virtuoso anyway? I personally think the concept that playing for enjoyment versus being a "virtuoso" is null. It almost implies that being good at something can't be enjoyable for one thing.

I don't think many musicians that would be considered a virtuoso by the people that would give them that label would think of themselves that way at any rate. To me the difference between being a "virtuoso" and someone that looks at a musician as a "virtuoso" is that one knows how to go beyond their limitations and the other one doesn't.

Besides that the term is relative, one man's virtuoso is another man's mediocre player. What is important is having the discipline and adaptability to be professional, know what to do when the time is right and being able to express the things you want to technically and creatively.

I think the term virtuoso is over-used in rock music - things like that...?

Whereas in serious music - what most people call Classical - there is no doubt who is a virtuoso - and there are certain pieces that you can only play if you are a virtuoso.

Like say - Rachmaninov's 3rd piano concerto - can only be payed by a virtuoso pianist!

I think it begs the question, what is a virtuoso anyway?

+1

I think it's important to enjoy music whatever level you're at, but I've also found that continuous learning and growth are usually necessary for sustaining one's interest in music.

That doesn't necessarily mean playing faster or more complex lines, but I can't really get excited about playing if I'm just going through the same old motions all the time.

Yeah, I don't gig out often at all...couple times a year maybe. But music is my life, so much so, that at 32 years old I decided to pursue a bachelors degree in jazz. Not to make money, nor to raise my credibility, but the pure desire to learn as much as possible about the thing that brings me the most joy. I aspire towards virtuosity, and cannot understand how that could ever hold negative connotations. I do know other musicians, who play out regularly, make decent money and have great fun, without any knowledge of theory and little to no practice regiments. Doesn't bother me in the least bit. Its really about what the musician gets out of it. This doesn't correlate by any means with ability or skill level, as we all know musicians are real people too, and we all have are own ways.

Yeah, I don't gig out often at all...couple times a year maybe. But music is my life, so much so, that at 32 years old I decided to pursue a bachelors degree in jazz. Not to make money, nor to raise my credibility, but the pure desire to learn as much as possible about the thing that brings me the most joy. I aspire towards virtuosity, and cannot understand how that could ever hold negative connotations. I do know other musicians, who play out regularly, make decent money and have great fun, without any knowledge of theory and little to no practice regiments. Doesn't bother me in the least bit. Its really about what the musician gets out of it. This doesn't correlate by any means with ability or skill level, as we all know musicians are real people too, and we all have are own ways.

The cool thing is even thou you are in a diffrent place totally than say the guys you know who know no theory and gig for $ and just play to play you dont down them. There are some on here who get on their high horse of music knowledge and damn the guy who like to jam with decent fretboard skills and play gigs.

You are in a 100% diffrent direction in music than me. I care nothing about a degree in jazz theory or really knowing more about bass playing than that itself..playing the bass. The way i look at it some like to learn about the bass ,some like to play it and Some like both. Me i just want to play...life's short and i'm havin fun. Good luck in school ..hope it works out for you.

Yeah, I don't gig out often at all...couple times a year maybe. But music is my life, so much so, that at 32 years old I decided to pursue a bachelors degree in jazz.

Not to make money, nor to raise my credibility, but the pure desire to learn as much as possible about the thing that brings me the most joy.

I aspire towards virtuosity, and cannot understand how that could ever hold negative connotations....

Well there are many ways it could - depending on how you view music and society.

So - should music be "for everyone" regardless of their understanding..?

Is it possible that you could end up with a kind of musical elite of virtuoso players who are separate from their audience, by virtue of concentrating too much on the technical aspects of music, as opposed to the emotion and content - what are you saying to an audience..?

If you are just saying - look how clever I am - then that is definitely a "negative connotation"...?

If you are saying - I am playing stuff that only I understand and you plebs down there will never truly appreciate - then again I can see that as a "negative connotation"....:eyebrow:

I could go on..?

I think it's quite easy to see how there could be many negative connotations...:hmm:

The cool thing is even thou you are in a diffrent place totally than say the guys you know who know no theory and gig for $ and just play to play you dont down them. There are some on here who get on their high horse of music knowledge and damn the guy who like to jam with decent fretboard skills and play gigs.
People who can read and understand theory don't look down on those who don't, I don't think. OK, some do, but the nicer of us stress theoretical solutions to questions people ask on here because we know they work, so it comes off as acting superior, maybe. I also believe that people who are asking questions on here take them seriously, so we'll offer the best possible solutions we know, and they're always based on good technique and theory. Anything less would be an insult. People are free to take the advice or dismiss it, but I'll let them make that decision.

I have to tell you, though, I don't get the exclusion of fun when discussing being a virtuoso. You can be a virtuoso and have fun. Victor Wooten looks like he has a great time. Yeah, it takes immense dedication, but being able to play like Vic is fun! Not saying that was your implication, but just addressing it in general.

Well there are many ways it could - depending on how you view music and society.

So - should music be "for everyone" regardless of their understanding..?

Is it possible that you could end up with a kind of musical elite of virtuoso players who are separate from their audience, by virtue of concentrating too much on the technical aspects of music, as opposed to the emotion and content - what are you saying to an audience..?

If you are just saying - look how clever I am - then that is definitely a "negative connotation"...?

If you are saying - I am playing stuff that only I understand and you plebs down there will never truly appreciate - then again I can see that as a "negative connotation"....:eyebrow:

I could go on..?

I think it's quite easy to see how there could be many negative connotations...:hmm:

I don't think that's different to any other aspect of music. Some people get it some people don't. You can't and, in my opinion, shouldn't please everyone. It really depends on what you want to achieve.

I don't really believe in virtuosity any more than I believe in "groove". Just another subjective term in my opinion. There are people that can execute a level of technicality that allows them to perform a certain type of music, at the end of the day it's the music played that you listen to. Whether that music is good or bad or whatever else is a matter of opinion.

This is a great question, I dont want to be a wooten, but since i am aiming for a career as a session player i have set my bar of improvment quite high. i often practise atleast an hour a day but i am going to up that to mabye 2-3. i appreciate people on hear are older than me and have families etc. and in a lot of ways i respect them more, since it must be hard juggling a passion for bass (which alot of people on hear have) and a busy family life.

This is a great question, I dont want to be a wooten, but since i am aiming for a career as a session player i have set my bar of improvment quite high. i often practise atleast an hour a day but i am going to up that to mabye 2-3. i appreciate people on hear are older than me and have families etc. and in a lot of ways i respect them more, since it must be hard juggling a passion for bass (which alot of people on hear have) and a busy family life.
Eh, you manage. But if you're going to make a serious move on the industry, do it now while you're young and unattached, because becoming a session musician requires immense dedication to not only playing bass but music in general. And family life will interfere with the level of dedication. It's not impossible to do, but it's not easy on a spouse to deal with it. Since the session business has so very few jobs to offer in relation to the people who want to do them, I'd seriously consider a backup plan. Live work, teaching, maybe get into the technical side and buy a studio and force everyone to use you on their sessions... ;)

I have played bass for nearly 16 yrs., very seriously in the last 5 years or so and never wanted to be a virtuoso just a decent player. I started playing bass because I enjoyed the sound, bass players are in demand, and bass players are the unsung heroes of any band, that was my attraction. But, even if I only ever play in my small apartment...its for me, to make me happy, if anybody else gets happy....then good, if not....so what? Its for me, and it should always be for you.

I want to be able to get to a point where my bass playing and music is able to capture hearts of listeners and evoke strong emotions.

People who can read and understand theory don't look down on those who don't, I don't think. OK, some do, but the nicer of us stress theoretical solutions to questions people ask on here because we know they work, so it comes off as acting superior, maybe. I also believe that people who are asking questions on here take them seriously, so we'll offer the best possible solutions we know, and they're always based on good technique and theory. Anything less would be an insult. People are free to take the advice or dismiss it, but I'll let them make that decision.

I have to tell you, though, I don't get the exclusion of fun when discussing being a virtuoso. You can be a virtuoso and have fun. Victor Wooten looks like he has a great time. Yeah, it takes immense dedication, but being able to play like Vic is fun! Not saying that was your implication, but just addressing it in general.

Oh your right not all do. The TBers with the higher education such as yourself who help are great. But there are some around here with an attitude on bass playing the old if you dont know theory etc you aint crap :rolleyes:

I play to enjoy music and challenge the natural inter music i have. I dont have time to take lessons or for that matter practice as much as i would like although i do almost daily somehow. Theory etc makes it no fun for me and music has to be fun..period. Take away the fun and I am out. The time it takes to be a quote virtuoso i will never have or have the drive for. Like i said i want to play the bass ...i dont want to learn the bass. I learned the bassics to play and practice. People who go on with theory ,college, jazz studies etc want to learn. Thats great go for it.

Interesting thread...

A little background first: I started on guitar in '79 at the tender age of 14 and was always the third guitar player in bands -- so they kept asking me to play bass. After a few more instances of this, I decided to focus on bass in the bands.

With the energy and inspiration of my teen years I spent a fair amount of time improving my chops. I was never the best bass player around, but was considered solid - especially for being the only self-taught bass player around when the other guys in the other bands had more formal training.

Over the last 28 years, I've spent some time in bands -- for a while I concentrated on my solo acoustic guitar stuff (my first love)...and I've always had to balance it with my job (which I know I need to keep ;-), my family and so on.

Right now, I'm in a three-piece band plus singer and we tend to cover things done in much larger bands. That makes it so the guitar player and I can't just focus on the basic parts, but we also have to find ways to fill in the areas left by the lack of a second guitar, keys, etc. That's where my challenges come in -- knowing when and what to fill, and when to hang back. That mostly fills the need for creativity that I used in bands of my youth when we were focusing on originals.

The thing I've learned in my not-so-old age is: Play the music, feel the music, give it what it needs, and stay out of the way when you need to.

The guitar player and I have been working together on and off for the last eight years, so we know well what to expect from each other and we can mostly do what we need with just a look at each other or a few words between songs. Our drummer has only been with us for less than a year, so we're still learning how to communicate with each other when the music is going. He tends to be "eyes closed" in his own world, so I have feel his groove and work within that -- or get his attention when I need for him listen to me.

I know I'll never be a virtuoso -- I don't have the time and dedication for that. There will always be bass players better than me, but I know that I can hold my own in a band and do just about anything the other band members require of me. I can throw in the occasional flashy bit as the songs require -- then go home and learn my parts for the next songs and come to the next practice ready to figure out what else the songs may or may not need.

As long as I am having fun, then my needs as a musician are being fulfilled.

Sorry for the long-windedness, but it's fun to share with like-minded folks. Thanks for indulging me.

Brandt

I wasn't sure where on TB to put this so I thought I'd go with this forum.

I'm really curious about what players consider their personal aspiration for playing the bass?

Let me give you some background ...

I've recently landed a gig as the "First Sunday" bass player in my church. I'll also be doing some playing with our various choirs when they travel and for special events. I've been working hard to learn the songs and I'm very comfortable that I'll be able to do an excellent job in this role.

Although the material is challenging for me as an intermediate bassist, there's nothing here that will (ever) require me to become the next incarnation of Jaco or Stanley -- and guess what -- I am TOTALLY cool with that.

Understanding that one always wants to get better (and that is my continuing goal), I am realistic about the fact that I am never going to become a Bass virtuoso. More importantly, with a full-time job and being a divorced parent, I am not able or willing to devote the kind of time that it would take to do so. It's hard enough for me to carve out 45 minutes a day to practice.

Having said that, I don't think I need to have Wooten-esque chops to enjoy playing the bass and that is NOT my aspiration. I just want to play well, have my bass ideas make musical sense, and hold down the groove. If I can do that every time I play, it will be a great thing.

I am wondering -- how many other folks here are in about the same boat as me? That is, "You play well enough to be good enough -- and that's good enough for you."

Nice post.

Me, I enjoyed trying to become a virtuoso. :) I combined the either/or statement to become an "and" type of statement! :)

Ultimately, the music of virtuosos, while interesting, enjoyable, respectable, appreciable and musical, is not necessarily the music I gravitate to for listening enjoyment.

I used to buy everything that had Jaco on it, and at one point, I had about 70% of the material available for purchase. I haven't bought any (new to me) Jaco stuff in about a decade, and didn't build off my Jaco collection with similar efforts to collect the works of other virtuoso bass heroes, with the exception of Level 42 (Mark King). I used to aspire to "be" Jaco years ago, in respect and awe, but no longer. I still aspire to "be" Mark King, but just try finding non-bassist musicians who are into that band! :)

I think my playing/practicing has followed a similar trend. I still enjoy Jaco, and I run through the Level 42 catalogue regularly, but I'm listening to and playing different things. I have an admittedly wider scope of listening now, for the most part. I guess I got to the point that I realized that learning something new on the bass didn't and shouldn't automatically equate to something more difficult and chop-busting than the last "most difficult and chop busting" thing. Where does that road lead???? Even if I could play "Portrait of Tracy" or "Teentown" I feel there is much to be said for listening and learning something much different, and in a sense "easier" than those two.

For many years now, if there's been one artist/bassist who's been on my mind, it's been James Taylor, and his bassists, Lee Sklar and Jimmy Johnson. While these bass lines and songs are not necessarily the stuff of virtuosos, per se, the music has magic to it. That, and I just seem to gravitate to music with vocals in it and vocal harmonies. To me, that would include James Taylor, CSN, Hall and Oates, Joni Mitchell, Fleetwood Mac and a whole slew of rock, pop, R&B, soul, folk, country and musics that are some hybrid of these. I think probably the biggest thing is that I'm not only a bass player, but also a singer, so that hugely influences my tastes and approach as a bass player too.

I feel sure those earlier years of chasing Jaco and Mark King have done me well in the long term, as it helped build technique and ability that has been helpful across a broad spectrum of music. The virtuoso approach helped my ear and my technique.

I probably do play well enough to be good enough, as you state, for the music I enjoy most, but I also want to grow and learn new music and throw myself in different situations as much as possible. I differ perhaps in that "well enough to be good enough" really isn't good enough for me. I still aspire to be the best bass player I can be, but I no longer automatically think that must automatically must occur through the mastery or efforts of recreating the lines/works of those that are generally regarded as "bass heroes/bass virtuosos." These days, I think I'm a much better musician, even if I might not think I'm an outright better bassist, technically-speaking, when I was running through the Jaco catalogue 24/7 way back when.

Grunching here, but I found that when I was finishing up my degree in music I was going through a phase where my desire to be a virtuoso was preventing me from being a good bass player. It wasn't good enough just to get deep in the pocket, move the song, write a good part and play a sick fill every now and then. I had to play the most difficult, intricate and ridiculous **** anyone had ever heard or I wasn't happy.

Obviously that sucked.

I think bass draws a more mature, glue-of-the-world, salt-of-the-earth type in general than guitar and voice (duh), either that or some dullard who just wants to meet girls and hasn't got the talent for guitar. And I think that as you become an experienced bass player and really want to play with groups and contribute to the music as a whole, it really requires you to develop a balance between your growing repertoire of techniques and what the song calls for. Maybe for this reason, a lot of my favorite bass players these days are guys who also play a prominent role in arranging and producing songs... I think the mindset of a great bass player lends itself to that task moreso than any other instrument.

By contrast, bass players who seem primarily technique-oriented or geared towards bass-as-lead-instrument type formats (really any musicians who do this, it goes for the super-noodlers of the guitar world as well) just don't grab me. I enjoy watching Wooten play and marvel at what he does, but if I wasn't a bass player he would bore me to tears after a few listens.

Basically, to sum up my experience, I think there's always a danger that focusing on becoming a virtuoso will eclipse your desire to become a musician. That sucks. Otherwise, the more you know, the more you can play!

If I'm not improving, I'm not happy. If I'm not playing well on a certain gig, I'm not having fun. My only goal is to constanly get better day by day. I have higher aspirations, but right now, I'm setting shorter term goals. There are many 'stops' on the way to being a 'virtuoso,' so I try to reach a certain level before I look to the next one.

Virtuosos, to me, are people who completely understand every step of the process. They fully understand the fundementals before pushing on to something else. You can't run before you walk, et cetra, et cetra.

just a hobby for me something i always wanted to do

This is a really interesting thread...

I grew up in a very musical household, some of my earliest memories are of living in a schoolbus with my mother and father as my fathers band toured around western Canada. As a youngster I wanted to play drums, but by the time I was 8 or so I found that playing the bass guitar appealed to me more than anything else. As the years went by my dad (who was not the best teacher :\) taught me a few things, and by the time I was 17 my dad (guitar/vocals), younger brother(drums), and I were gigging around the small town we lived in. It was a really interesting time making my summer money playing music while my friends were working at gas stations and fast food joints to be sure. Well anyhow, as time went on we all went our seperate ways and, since I had always been using 'my dads' equipment, when I moved out and started a family I had no bass of my own or anything to play through. So I ended up spending quite a few years only playing once or twice a year when the family would get together and we would have a family jam. During the whole time when I had nothing to play I would, at times, feel like I was slacking off on something by not having a bass and not playing. A few years ago I picked up a cheap Squier P, but always seemed to have 'something better' to do and it sat around in the corner.

Now, when I started playing, my dad was always telling me that I had alot of untapped talent and that I needed to just practice more and I could become (in his words) "a virtuoso", but for me I just enjoyed playing simple and straight forward, as that was enough to be fun for me. I never really had the desire to be the next stanley clarke or james jamerson (I actually never really paid attention to bassists back then to be honest, I think the only bassist I could have named off hand was Jack Bruce)etc, I just enjoyed making music with the band and that was enough. It was actually during the years of not really playing that I ended up 'discovering' how many really awesome bassists are out there, and it was via a really roundabout means (I was starting to get into electronic music in about 98 and was introduced to Squarepusher by a co-worker and after listening to lots of Squarepusher ended up finding out that he is a bassist and it all started there I think :D). Anyhow as the years went by and I spent alot of time listening to all these different kinds of music with all these extremely talented bassists I decided it was time I get back into playing bass. Right now I am not in any band or anything, I have just been writing some basic drum lines and melodies in Reason and jamming along with them while spending lots and lots of time on the web reading up on technique and working on learning all the fundamentals that I glossed over when I was young and was just playing to make music and not really paying attention to what was going on.

I hope this wasnt too long and that my story actually makes sense ;)

It takes the regular slobs like us to make the virtuoso players stand out. I love and am inspired by players who have virtuoso abilities and use them to serve the music and not play a million notes. So to that end I strive for the skills of a virtuoso, but know that it's just the the thing that keeps me moving forward. I love music and want to be the best I can be at it and that doesn't mean being the next Wooten, Jaco, or Stanley Clark.

It takes the regular slobs like us to make the virtuoso players stand out. I love and am inspired by players who have virtuoso abilities and use them to serve the music and not play a million notes. So to that end I strive for the skills of a virtuoso, but know that it's just the the thing that keeps me moving forward. I love music and want to be the best I can be at it and that doesn't mean being the next Wooten, Jaco, or Stanley Clark.

I don't know if Miles Davis exactly played zillion notes a minute, quite the opposite, but his mastery of music and his instrument is out of this world.

In other words, there's raw technicality, anyone with good fingers could become super-fast players. But it's not clear such talent is the same as musical talent.

I don't know if Miles Davis exactly played zillion notes a minute, quite the opposite, but his mastery of music and his instrument is out of this world.

In other words, there's raw technicality, anyone with good fingers could become super-fast players. But it's not clear such talent is the same as musical talent.

Did you even read my post? We pretty much agree. It's like you're trying to flame me or something.

Did you even read my post? We pretty much agree. It's like you're trying to flame me or something.

Yes we do. I just wanted to clarify that to be a virtuoso does not mean to play zillion of notes, rather to develop the musicality within to high levels. I think anyone could do that, or that someone who feels they can't play so fast, or spend a lot of time trying to learn to play fast, maybe misses the goal of becoming great.

virtuoso does not mean to play zillion of notes

In the classical sense of the word, that's exactly what a virtuoso means - having technical facility of the highest caliber. This implies flash, and lots of it. Paganini, the first "true" virtuoso, was basically the 18th century equivalent of a shred guitarist - all the theatrics in ways that people had never begun to fathom before, but in terms of musical substance, not much there.

Miles Davis could never be considered a "virtuoso" in this sense, and I think labeling him as "virtuoso" would diminished from his contribution to music. Being a musician of the highest caliber doesn't mean playing interpolated ditone patterns over six tonic systems.

Just a little food for thought. John Coltrane could play a million notes with more feeling and emotion then most of us will ever feel in our life. He was an instrumental virtuoso and a musician of deep expression. Expression doesn't need to be separate from virtuosity, it's just unfortunate that most players strive for one at the expense of the other.

For me playing for fun and trying to become a virtuoso are pretty much on the same page ...

What is more fun than being a music virtuoso?

I don't think the two need to be exclusive, one can play for the joy of it and practice a great deal to play on a high level. To me practice and pushing myself is part of the fun, that's what kept me playing bass in high school when my buddies were with their girlfriends. I enjoyed it a great deal then and still do now maybe I'm a masochist.