worse than that are the guys who want a custom build quote to their specs. So you take the time to put together the qoute for them no matter how wild it is and they decide that they only want to spend 700.00 dollars on a 1800-2000 dollar bass

a "well known" builder of custom high-end basses once offered me some advice on this topic ...

"Rodent, you always need to remember that any musical instrument is a luxury item and not a basic requirement for existence. A custom bass is even more of a luxury, and cannot be confused as being a staple.

Do not go down the road of pricing your custom basses like they are mass produced cheap knock-offs - if someone want's a $750 bass, point them towards a Squier or similar. If they cannot see the value in a custom bass, they will also not see the value in your work when you deliver them a $2000 bass for that $750 price"


While I have not always followed this advice to the 'T', it sure has helped me feel at ease when quoting prices for my work.


One approach I now usually employ when working a quote for a new client is to have them provide me a working budget in addition to their materials and spec wants. I have found that anyone who cannot propose an initial working budget is usually someone who cannot accept paying fair value for a custom bass


all the best,

R

Great advice, this should be a sticky! I don't know how many builds I've turned down because of this. It should be posted that if your looking for a custom bass built to your specs you have no right being cheap. :scowl:I've taken some builds in the past that ended up as a loss for me because I felt that the certain individual would value the product in the end and it would help get the name out. Which more than likely they don't value it any more than usual or they have already sold to fund whatever other daily desire they have.

What really bothers me is that the same person who gets the "Deal of a lifetime" is also the same person to go over the build with a fine comb then complain and critic any non perfection they can find. Sure that's to be expected if your work is bringing top dollar and you have a world renowned reputation as a builder, but as a small time hand builder I've yet to produce a perfect one..... yet.....;) I Thought I would bring that up while I rant!

Hopefully soon I will have a nice website that will lay everything out and help filter out the problem. That's the only solution I can really think of other than posting a price list, which I would really hate to do because theres no individuality there and it could bring up other problems for the guy who wants that 400 buck buckeye top....

I think a big problem is that people don't seem to understand or care what it takes to build, the time, money, tools, skill ect, and above that they dont know that for the small time builder the profit margin is small. Very small....I will use the new smilie here :atoz: <----pathetic little guy huh?

Dont get me wrong, I dont do this for the money and I don't expect to get rich but I want whats fair. RANT DONE!:bassist::D

Two great posts up there. I don't know if I can add much more to that :)

I think a big problem is that people don't seem to understand or care what it takes to build, the time, money, tools, skill ect, and above that they dont know that for the small time builder the profit margin is small. Very small....I will use the new smilie here <----pathetic little guy huh?

I believe most people don't know how much time and effort is actually in those things. I got asked for a quote recently for a refinish on someone's instrument. After checking out the local prices I quoted him half of what the local repair guys charge. (I gave him the nice guy reduction :D) He still felt it was pretty expensive and asked about if he did the disasembly and sanding himself how cheap would it be? :D

After having chatted with him for a while of what's actually involved in finishing, what lacquers and sandpaper cost and how long/how many coats of lacquer is involved in it he totally understood where I came from.

I've often felt that maybe I should bring my prices down since I'm not getting orders in as much as I want. I've tried thinking of cheaper ways to build and ways to save money on parts/hardware that I could pass on to the customer but really, there's just so much you can shave off. I would still end up with a too little marge of profit to bother spending all that time working on something like that.

Quote from Sheldon Dingwall on a different thread right now, directly related to this thread.

The only thing that tends to get out of hand with pickup orders is the lengthy question and answer process regarding sizes, string spacing, coil structure, output, will it work with this pre-amp etc. We're unable to be flexible in this area, Nordstrand is unbelievably flexible. Hat's off to Carey and the boys.

At current shop rates, it doesn't take long to wipe out any profit from a pickup order answering questions. If you're mindful of that when dealing with your luthier, he'll appreciate your attitude.


I never though of it this way but it's totally true, before making a sale of a custom you often have to have an exchange of countless e-mails before the customer finally decides to go with the build and sends a deposit. I can easily say an exchange of 50+ e-mails for some insturments. I've also had the same experience for custom wound pickups too.

Imagine doing the building full-time and having to deal with 50+ e-mails per instruments at a rate of several instruments a week. Thats a lot of time spent writing e-mails :eek: That's where the higher price of high-ends comes in I gues. Gosta get PAID for your time! :D :hiding:

Yes, this is all great advice. Scott, one thing I did to try and limit the amount of quotes I have to work on is post a basic price list and most common options with prices. If someone asks me 'how much would this cost?' I say 'please see my prices page and when you're ready to order I'll give you a formal quote in writing'. It's working great so far.

A good thread!!

I agree with a lot of what has been said.

People looking for a cheap custom bass have driven me nuts over the years. I have found that the more e-mailing that gets done the less likely that they will really go through with it. Anybody else notice this?

Yes, this is all great advice. Scott, one thing I did to try and limit the amount of quotes I have to work on is post a basic price list and most common options with prices. If someone asks me 'how much would this cost?' I say 'please see my prices page and when you're ready to order I'll give you a formal quote in writing'. It's working great so far.

Thats a great point it makes good sense too.
A good thread!!

I have found that the more e-mailing that gets done the less likely that they will really go through with it. Anybody else notice this?

Yep it's like they want to explore the possibilities until its time to put up or shut up but up until then they are all so serious with statements like "man I've got the money right here in my hand":p

One example I've had, the worst actually is a guy that wanted one of my shapes but with a ton of personal accents. This guy wanted it all, were talking dual scrolls on the headstock to mimic bug antennas (I'm not kidding!), a Jem style handle, a scroll on the little horn in the single cut, custom inlay, the works.

So I spend a good amount of time mocking up the bass in cad and emailing with him back and forth, the old shave a bit here add a bit there type stuff, Until finally we got to the I LOVE IT! stage and I'll send my deposit tomorrow. I haven't heard from him since.....

I've got 3 custom orders going on right now and once they are done, I'm seriously considering going back to just building and selling. I like it better that way. NO deadlines, no hassle, I've never had a problem with selling them and everyone who has one spec out by me seems to love them.:hmm:

For those of you who think I'm just "whining" and that answering questions and emails don't eat up time. I leave you with this..........The infamous Antenna Bass. :rollno:Now that I look at it, its probably a blessing that my logo isn't on this thing...:help: :D:D:D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/ScottyClosterSC-1headed.jpg

If the upper horn part is cut all the way through I like that part of the bass or was it just a design on the upper horn....t

the antenna don't do it for me though. :D

I leave you with this..........The infamous Antenna Bass.

"Meat-head....dead from the neck, up." - Archie Bunker

...or in this case, dead from the nut, up. It's actually a cool design until you get to the headstock.

Yep....I once traded 15 emails with a guy who just wanted 3 fretboards. Dude knew about scale lengths etc I'll give him that, he just could NOT make up his mind what kind of wood he wanted 'em made from.

By far the best customers are the guys who come to the table knowing just what they want.

Anyone ever toy with the idea of a "quote fee" as a filter on the rebels without a clue? Say, $20-$30 nonrefundable to start the in-depth conversation, to be applied toward the deposit upon receipt of order.

I like the scroll at the horn!!! about the ones at the headstock ...:D

Well what can I say, I really don't think there was too great a way to pull of the ol' double scroll headstock....

Hey, can one of you guys build me a bass for $56? :D

lowsound

Hey, can one of you guys build me a bass for $56? :D

Sure...as long as you don't mind me putting my "Squier" sig on the headstock.... :scowl:

Sure...as long as you don't mind me putting my "Squier" sig on the headstock.... :scowl:


Deal!!! But I want it to have all the hardware from Hipshot and fat stacks for pups. I don't want to abuse so lets keep the preamp for the future and I expect a good discount for that one!!!! :D

Dude I will totally beat that price. You can have it for $52 and it will come with 13 extra strings. And a tranny block. And LOADS of mid-hump.:eek:

Sheesh, all you guys jawin' about wasting time making quotes... Meanwhile, I'm the one beating all your quotes and getting the jobs... :rollno:;)

Meanwhile, I'm the one beating all your quotes and getting the jobs... :rollno:;)

Well sure....if my diet consisted of cheese curd and Old Style I could build on the cheap too!

(you're talkin' to a F.I.B. here...)

Dude I will totally beat that price. You can have it for $52 and it will come with 13 extra strings. And a tranny block. And LOADS of mid-hump.:eek:

Sheesh, all you guys jawin' about wasting time making quotes... Meanwhile, I'm the one beating all your quotes and getting the jobs... :rollno:;)

You got an antenna bass to prove that??:p

I do more set-ups and repairs than complete builds... but I really am getting tired of all of my friends coming to me and expecting me to do this stuff for free. I don't mind doing a favor now and then and I really would to ANYTHING for them... but it gets to a point where I'm just like enough is enough. I am a full time student, go part-time to another school, work full time hours, play 4 services on a sunday, have clinical rotations, and volunteer at my church's youth group. Whatever free time I have left over after that (if there is any left over) is EXTREMELY valuable and if I keep getting taken advantage of I'm going to loose my mind. I just want respect or at least to be offered to be payed you know.

I just want respect or at least to be offered to be payed you know.

I'm not a builder, but a recording engineer, and have faced this same situation with recording time. I keep my rates criminally low, but everybody's gotta pay at least a little. Sort of my way of reminding folks (even friends): hey, please don't take advantage of me. It's especially important when I work with clients that eventually become friends that there be some form of "compensation for time" precedent set.

As a customer, rather than a builder here is my take:
The process of a custom bass requires quite a bit of back and forth communication, but at some point relatively early in the process the customer should be willing to spend some money. Even if all of the details of the custom aren't finalized, some of the items...bridge type, tuner type, string choice, pickups, knobs, controls, fingerboard material,etc. will be "set in stone". That is a very appropriate time for the customer to write his first check.
I've only limited experience with the process of hatching a custom instrument, and the $$ are just one aspect of it. As a buyer I also need to be patient, open-minded, and reasonable.
I've been most fortunate that the luthier I'm working with is not only creative and a good communicator, his enthusiasm and passion are contagious. Also, he is GOOD at what he does.

my final comment is this...perhaps a "consultation fee" is in order.
Thinking about it, I would have been willing to pay $100 to consult with a luthier to get a finalized design...no hardware, no parts, just a spec sheet and parts list with cost estimates.
At least that way the luthier gets some money up front!

Anyone ever toy with the idea of a "quote fee" as a filter on the rebels without a clue? Say, $20-$30 nonrefundable to start the in-depth conversation, to be applied toward the deposit upon receipt of order.

my final comment is this...perhaps a "consultation fee" is in order.
Thinking about it, I would have been willing to pay $100 to consult with a luthier to get a finalized design...no hardware, no parts, just a spec sheet and parts list with cost estimates.
At least that way the luthier gets some money up front!

This doesn't sound like a good business practice to me. I think for the prices most of us builders charge simply discussing and conceptualizing an instrument should be part of the service.

Anyone want to add their opinions? I'd like to hear what everyone thinks

Wow, this forum is pretty active for a bunch of guys who don't have time to "just talk" about building...;)

Seriously, though, I can relate. I spent several months talking with a few potential customers and planned my summer around those builds...that was going to be my summer job. Well, all three never came up with any cash, so I ended up hauling rocks and digging out tree roots for a landscaper.:atoz:
Well sure....if my diet consisted of cheese curd and Old Style I could build on the cheap too!
What else could there possibly be in the world? (note location: Southern WI):)

This is only a suggestion as a customer. I preface this by saying Wilser is building a bass for me and he has been nothing but helpful. This is my first custom bass so I didn't know what to expect about the process at all. Don't think all customers LIKE being or are trying to be annoying. Its honestly a mixture of being uneducated when it comes to what can be done with customs (which I admit I am) and excitement that a bass is being built especially for them.

I know guys probably hear a bunch of the same questions but I have to see a builder take the time to post some type of questionnaire for the customer. Maybe a PHP script on the website that would send an email or even a PDF the customer can fill out with as many questions as the builder can think of to get a clear idea of what the customer wants. Like wedding planning checklists and questionnaires, except for bass building.

I know if I had something like this that the builder says "Glad you are considering me. Fill out this questionnaire and we can go from there", I wouldn't feel as if I'm being annoying and I would have a list of exactly what info the builder wants (or at least to narrow it down a great deal). Also, on the builders end, I think it would be great to have something like this on file to refer to rather than sifting though tons of emails. It could have technical stuff like what options the customer whats. It could even be stuff like "what kind of sound are you looking for?", "what would you like aesthetically?", etc...

Just thought you guys might want a customers opinion. Again, it seems as if its such a simple, basic idea. But no one that I know of has done it yet. I know this thread was originally about pricing but seems as its veering a little bit..

Hey Bobby, those are all great ideas and would work 100% if all customers knew exactly what they want (like you were!), but reality is that MOST customers start contacting custom builders without the faintest idea of what they want other than I like your shape XYZ. It is the customer's responsibility to know what they want and not the builder's to guess or suggest at random. Also, not all builders offer 'customizable' prepackaged basses, some are like me who offer every single little thing on the bass as a custom option which makes a checklist rather unrealistic. This is all, of course, just my opinion!

Hey Bobby, those are all great ideas and would work 100% if all customers knew exactly what they want (like you were!), but reality is that MOST customers start contacting custom builders without the faintest idea of what they want other than I like your shape XYZ. It is the customer's responsibility to know what they want and not the builder's to guess or suggest at random. Also, not all builders offer 'customizable' prepackaged basses, some are like me who offer every single little thing on the bass as a custom option which makes a checklist rather unrealistic. This is all, of course, just my opinion!

I'm followin ya.. Again, I'm speaking on the customers end.. I have no idea what you guys go though.

I was thinking more generalized questions like what type of sound the customer is going for, what looks, etc... Now, if the customer doesnt know what sound or what looks they are going for, then I can understand they really need to do some research.

I guess I was thinking more of a "where is the customers head at" type of questionnaire rather than a check list. It can be a bit daunting as a customer to have to sift through so many websites, opinions, and options.. I can't count how many pages my excel spreadsheet was with all the options I was looking at :D

As far as pricing, again from MY perspective, I wouldn't be offended at all if the builder asks UP FRONT what my budget is and go from there if the customer doesn't say it first. Any customer who doesnt know how much they want to spend either is 1. a tire kicker, 2. really has no idea what they want, or 3. really doesnt have the money.

I do more set-ups and repairs than complete builds... but I really am getting tired of all of my friends coming to me and expecting me to do this stuff for free. I don't mind doing a favor now and then and I really would to ANYTHING for them... but it gets to a point where I'm just like enough is enough. I am a full time student, go part-time to another school, work full time hours, play 4 services on a sunday, have clinical rotations, and volunteer at my church's youth group. Whatever free time I have left over after that (if there is any left over) is EXTREMELY valuable and if I keep getting taken advantage of I'm going to loose my mind. I just want respect or at least to be offered to be payed you know.

No one can take advantage of you without your permission.

If you do repair work professionally (for a fee) then it is time to show the freeloaders to the door. If you don't have the intestinal fortitude to say it, tell them that you are booked up for the next couple of weeks. They will eventually get the message. Doing the work for free cheapens the value of the service. It also hurts every other pro in your area.

If you do not do this work professionally, tell them you are too busy. An if you are not charging for your services, you are hurting every pro in your area by taking bread out of their children's mouths.

Hey Bobby, those are all great ideas and would work 100% if all customers knew exactly what they want (like you were!), but reality is that MOST customers start contacting custom builders without the faintest idea of what they want other than I like your shape XYZ. It is the customer's responsibility to know what they want and not the builder's to guess or suggest at random. Also, not all builders offer 'customizable' prepackaged basses, some are like me who offer every single little thing on the bass as a custom option which makes a checklist rather unrealistic. This is all, of course, just my opinion!

Truthfully, I really like it when a customer gives me a few specs and tells me a few things they would like to see and says "go to town, you're the artist." I'm working on a strat style guitar for someone now and he basically gave me a budget and said he wanted a "sustain monster" that plays blues great. He loves the look of natural finishes and he wants a think profile neck "like Hendrix played." The rest is up to me... I LOVE this approach because I can experiment and get a lot of my ideas out. I'm going to be putting a walnut pickguard over a quilted maple top and bird's eye fretboard.

But when a customer knows exactly what he or she wants that's also nice

No one can take advantage of you without your permission.

If you do repair work professionally (for a fee) then it is time to show the freeloaders to the door. If you don't have the intestinal fortitude to say it, tell them that you are booked up for the next couple of weeks. They will eventually get the message. Doing the work for free cheapens the value of the service. It also hurts every other pro in your area.

If you do not do this work professionally, tell them you are too busy. An if you are not charging for your services, you are hurting every pro in your area by taking bread out of their children's mouths.

I know... I do it too myself. My fiance always tells me I need to stop but its my own fault, I'm just too much of a nice guy.



As far as the charging for quotes/ consultation whatever, I totally am against that. I think its kind of insulting actually and in bad taste (not that what consumers do sometimes is any better). But it really comes down to the fact that people don't have consideration for anyone other than themselves lately and will think nothing of wasting other people's time so they can entertain an idea that they really know deep down will not be followed through with. It's just not a nice thing to do.

This is a tough subject.

When there is a fee for the quote it eliminates everyone who is not "serious". It also eliminates a lot of good customers. At the root the message is, "Give me some money and then I'll tell you how much more you'll have to give me."

The reasons behind charging for the estimate seem to be legitimate. You want to spend your time on people who actually will commission a build. But it really boils down to this: Having the foresight to know when you are being strung along by a "tire kicker" and having the sense to show them the door. This is a hard thing to do. Where do you set the limits? Is twenty emails too many? Are thirty too much? Certainly, if the client is asking for drawings it is time for them to make a substantial deposit.

Lists of options can cut down the amount of time it takes to spec out the instrument. Another time saver is to cull through your existing emails and choosing some good, general examples that can be used as generic answers. It doesn't have to be a "form letter". Leave some space to customize the reply to each client based on the specific discussion. Properly labeled and residing in a file, they can save a lot of time over the course of a year.

Probably the best way to eliminate those who are not serious is to initiate a discussion of budget and scheduling early in the process. Be up front. Give them a general estimate and explain your schedule. Ask them when they are going to want to take delivery. This enables you to push them toward making decisions quickly. If they tell you they want it sometime next year, a natural reply is that detailed discussion is premature. If they are saying ninety days, it is time to push hard for a deposit. If they balk, you can remind them that they are in a hurry. These methods might seem too "businesslike" or too pushy, but you are in business. Business people push to get the dollar.

Maybe if the fee was applied to the actual cost of the build, if the customer decides to go through then only then would it be a feasible option. Other than that it makes better sense just to filter out the flakes with a basic price list. I think there are people out there that seriously think they can get a custom for the same price as a store bought. "Ibanez only charges x amount of dollars for there best bass why are yours so much higher?" LOL!

Interesting topic.

As far as pricing an instrument goes, I don't think that it's something complicated. Calculating the cost of components is trivial. As far as payment for luthier's time goes, I think it can be estimated in a straightforward way as well, one just has to decide how much an hour of his expertise costs. Add the cost of tools to the equation, and here you get a final price, which can be presented in a neat way in front of the customer. I don't think any person with self-respect would start to whine this way, since they have the cost of the instrument broken down in front of ther eyes.

Charging for application is a tricky thing. Surely, it takes time to work out the design, hence it should cost money. The question is how you look at it as part of the whole bass-making process. My opinion is that application itself shouldn't cost money, especially if the luthier warns in advance that the price is a rough estimate. What should cost money is sitting with the customer and nailing down all the details.

it is just not that simple. Small operations are usually one guy (or two) handling marketing, manufacture, procurement of materials (which takes up a LOT of time, especially when the customer wants a specific piece of wood that doesn't exist), customer service, sales, etc. If a luthier were to charge what was fair for the time (and general expenses) he spends on everything related to his business a custom bass/guitar would cost over $10,000.

Who here has gotten an order and enver heard from the customer until it was time to fulfill the order? I'm not complaining about it! and it's certainly one of the aspecs I enjoy the most and I even get to make a friend or two, but we just don't charge for that time.

When you're purchasing a custom built instrument to your specs you're not just buying the product (which is usually JUST what we charge for), you're getting personal attention that would otherwise be VERY costly if we were to be fair. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that most of us are being unfair to ourselves for the benefit of the customer.

Interesting topic.

As far as pricing an instrument goes, I don't think that it's something complicated. Calculating the cost of components is trivial. As far as payment for luthier's time goes, I think it can be estimated in a straightforward way as well, one just has to decide how much an hour of his expertise costs. Add the cost of tools to the equation, and here you get a final price, which can be presented in a neat way in front of the customer. I don't think any person with self-respect would start to whine this way, since they have the cost of the instrument broken down in front of ther eyes.

Charging for application is a tricky thing. Surely, it takes time to work out the design, hence it should cost money. The question is how you look at it as part of the whole bass-making process. My opinion is that application itself shouldn't cost money, especially if the luthier warns in advance that the price is a rough estimate. What should cost money is sitting with the customer and nailing down all the details.

Charging for application is a tricky thing. Surely, it takes time to work out the design, hence it should cost money. The question is how you look at it as part of the whole bass-making process. My opinion is that application itself shouldn't cost money, especially if the luthier warns in advance that the price is a rough estimate. What should cost money is sitting with the customer and nailing down all the details.

Yep. A price list is certainly another way to go, by limiting the number of choices you certainly make it easier for the customer AND yourself. But the fewer options you offer, the less "custom" is your custom.

Then again, really good players often are very much in tune with a few specific things they're looking for in an instrument, and often these guys will move on if they get the impression you offer only a few specific models and that's it. There's no getting around the fact that an instrument that is truly a one-of-a-kind build will involve a whole lot of design back & forth between the customer and the luthier.

That's how it should be....but the trick is to figure out how to serious a given customer is as early as possible. An up-front gue$$timate is probably the best way, BUT it is often the case that the more you talk it through, the more stuff gets added on and the price starts going up so that your guesstimate could start looking foolish.

Its a gray area between "rough idea" and "design consulting" but communication is the key. And believe it or not....in a 30 minute phone call you can convey much more of that kind of information than you can in about 3 hours of emailing.

(or 30 hours of text-messaging... :scowl:).

What else could there possibly be in the world?

Well...if you want to add bratwurst to your menu, you gotta charge more !

Hmm probably if the luthier was posting prices he charged for the past projects (with specs included) would filter the not-serious folks?

Hmm probably if the luthier was posting prices he charged for the past projects (with specs included) would filter the not-serious folks?
Or, maybe, prices he would charge today (given the experience, and regardless of any special deals that might have been given at the time)?

Maybe a PHP script on the website that would send an email or even a PDF the customer can fill out with as many questions as the builder can think of to get a clear idea of what the customer wants. Like wedding planning checklists and questionnaires, except for bass building.



I think Alembic's website has this sort of thing.It's nice as a customer to know ahead of time how much one's desires are going to cost.Not to mention the elimination of tire kickers which really do take up a great deal of time that could be better spent building.

This is interesting. I'm just a customer, not a builder, and have nothing but admiration for you guys. I've tried to be understanding, considerate, and easy to work with on the custom builds I've ordered, but I'm sure I've managed to be a PITA more than once!

It looks to me like there are two different issues here regarding folks asking for quotes. The first is those who really have no idea of the effort and cost that goes into building a bass, and have totally unrealistic expectations about how little they can spend. Would simply posting a basic price list weed out a lot of those folks by giving them a ballpark starting point for pricing?

The second is those who want to take a lot of time and exchange a lot of emails to talk about different options. In the end, they may or may not be serious. The Alembic forum has a whole area dedicated to these kinds of conversations, called "Just Dreaming for Now", and I suspect that's at least in part what a lot of these folks are doing. They (we) have an idea--or a lot of different ideas!--for a custom instrument, and we want someone to bounce them off of. It's fun (as a customer) to spend a lot of time talking about and imagining all the different possibilities and details, but I do appreciate that it can be a great drain on the luthier's time. Perhaps some statements to the customer up front about your philosophy and goals as a builder, and some general ideas about what kinds of custom options you'd consider doing and what the cost might be would help with this? Or an FAQ like Matt Pulcinella has, pre-empting questions like "Will you build a copy of such-and-such bass?" or "Do you build neck-throughs?".

Mike

I just read Matt Pulcinella's FAQ. I like that guy.

I totally agree with the spirit of this thread. You custom builders are totally awesome and worth every penny If I do say so.

I am just nitpicking at the quote that started this thread. Find me a $750 squire! No thanks!

I've had people flake out on me, due to this I wont be doing any custom work until I have my shop fully setup, site dedicated with straight forward prices, and all of my designs and templates ready. It is very frustrating to deal with, especially when you calculate the hundreds of hours of learning and mistakes for an incredibly low paying "job". Of course, it's not a job or career, just a love. You'd have to be insane to do something like this for a living. Which we are. :D

great discussion so far - thanks for taking time to think on this topic (as well as vent in a couple of cases :ninja: )!

from my current perspective, I see offering a pricing list as both helpful (saves time with ordinary rough estimate type quotes for common build types) and hurtful (could set the perception of what one is or is not willing to build.) this leaves me undecisive on which route to take at the moment

I truly enjoy the process of working with a potential client to spec out a bass, but I would also like to know honestly upfront who is serious about making a deposit for a custom build. if someone is simply dreaming things thru, I would still be willing to work the same level of details - BUT(!) I would like some honesty so I can put more urgent effort into a client who needs something asap.

for me it's about prioritizing where I spend my limited amount of time away from my day job and family. if you're just dreaming - please let me know up front. I will still work with you, but I may not get back to you today or tomorrow ... just like you're not ready to purchase today or tomorrow. this allows me to work with clients who need their bass asap, and to relax and dream with you when I'm taking a break from real work. we can both win and accomplish the detail level you need within a time schedule that allows me to breathe a little. in this way neither of us get frustrated with each other because we are showing mutual respect for each other


maybe I'll be forced to change the way I do business and the way I work with custom inquiries - but it will be something that is forced upon me not because I want to be a frigid business person, but because I have customers who have paid for a construction project to be completed that see themselves as having a vested priority over those who are just dreaming and corresponding for that joyride filled with what if's and endless possibilities

but I hope not, at least not anytime soon ... so to those who may dreamily inquire of me about a custom build that you don't plan to lay a deposit on anytime soon - work with me and let me know up front in the discussion so I can keep things the way they are ... please?


all the best,

R

This discussion is very good and I wish Bass Player would educate players about what to expect both as a consumer of a product and as a creative (hopefully) musician dealing with another creative artist.

I set out last year after much research (I thought ) to find the luthier to buid a custom bass to produce the "SOUND".

I wanted to find a luthier whose designs and builds I like and who could address my needs (rsdius, scale length and pickup type and placement) and desires (woods, inlays etc)

I found him and I like his designs and I picked one asked about modifying the design, no problem but that where the train came off the track. I wanted different woods that together should sound according to a certain predetermine way. ie a maple fretboard will sond brighter than a soft wood etc. Except evrything was an upgrade and his necks were all the same width and deepth and some woods he wold not change. So he basically woud uild Model wd-4A and yu had a choice of a ample top or a walnut top and differnt colored hardware. Now in the time since we had begun talking, and I didn't give up hope for over 3 months, I had explained what sound I was going for and waht type of woods i would like to use, my playing style, how hard my attck and what amplication I used. Everything I coiuld think of that was relavent for translating my description into a note produced from one of his instruments that I was willing to pay for, I even sent him $1,800 before he ask for a dime to let him know I was for real, which I had to ask for back because turned out that you could get any option except a litle deeper cutaway, a slightly narrower neck (his basses all had the same width neck)

Got my money back serached for another luthier, settled on one that was mofre well known, but this time I have to deal with a music store to translate and one that was recommended. Great, this will be great this music store must know everything about this luthers basses and he will definately be able to to translate and put the woods together and helpguide guide me ........wrong i feel like I am dealing with a Physcologist, example Me: What sound would that typle of neck construction and a ebony fretboard produce?"
Music store guy: What do you think it would sound like?

But I'm being patient and hopefully after I spend $5-6K for this bass it wilsound good. I went around the store guy ands talked with the luthiers shop manager who is great at the translation but can't really because then the store guys wouldn't be earning their profits they make for all the consulting they do.

I feel like I have entered the Twighlight Zone, cause I started out with an idea that a luthier would take my ideas and expalinations of the sound and at least try to get close to what I wanted.

And I am not shy, I can only imagine the people that don't speak up so all they are gtting is what the luthier ( or the music store tells them.

I respect you guys and admire craftsmanship. But this experience with these two bulders has been a little disheartning.

I amnot a newby and have ben around on the raod and off the raod but I just wanted you to know that the customers are getting had pretty good out here on the streets. I wnatefd to find luthuers that would go that extra little bit like it sounds you guys do and I found just the opposite.

I wish you the best an keep building cause maybe a player with a idea of an instrument and how it should sound has yet to meet you, "the guy knew exactly waht I heard and it's this bass he built for me":bassist::bassist:

I can totally understand where you guys are coming from. I asked two of you for qoutes not too long ago. With only a general Idea of what I wanted. and that said still not sure lol. Scotty and Wilser where very professional with answer my questions and there was a mutual respect. Maybe its because I didnt waste there time too mcuh. And I still havent placed an order only cause I went back to my plan to stop being chicken and build it myself. But because of how well they treated me even after I finish my 1st build I plan to order from both of them. just not as fancy as Danny's basses lol

Hmm probably if the luthier was posting prices he charged for the past projects (with specs included) would filter the not-serious folks?

I think this is a great idea. If I was considering a custom bass, and the Luthier wanted to charge me before I even had a quote, I'd go elsewhere.

It sucks wasting your time on tire-kickers, but if I don't know you from the next guy, who's to say that you're going to be able to come up with stuff I even like? To some extent I think any business person has to go out on a bit of a limb initially. Obviously that's going to affect the price of the instrument. A checkbox type list like Carvin has could really help sort out the undecided customers. I'm sure there's plenty who aren't even sure they want a custom bass. A rough estimator for a moderately canned bass would help get rid of any who have really unrealistic expectations. Having a list of past builds and their current prices would not only show off your work, but would give potential customers a rough idea of what they're looking at. It's almost like having pre-defined options, and I doubt many people are going to want an exact copy or anything like that, so it''s not like you're losing your "custom" status.

Also, asking about budget, and desired delivery date would probably do wonders. If the customer says they're thinking of buying something maybe sometime next year, and don't really know how much they're willing to spend, you can be equally vague. "Yeah something like that is probably about 3 grand but could vary a lot depending on the details, which we can work out when you're ready to take the leap"

That way you're not blowing off a potential customer, who isn't quite ready yet, but who may decide next week that they want to go for it for sure.
And if they don't ever come back, at least you didn't waste too much time, and they're not going to go badmouthing that you wanted a hundred bucks up front etc.

Sure, there's always going to be some nutjob who wants an antenna bass and claims he's willing to pay 7k for it who will never follow through, but probably most of the tire-kickers aren't so much trying to be cheap, as they really just have no clue what's involved. If during all the email exchanges, they've got a $1k pricetag in their head, and you finish the design and quote $3k they're gone. If you ask them ahead of time and they say 1k, you tell them what if anything you can do for 1k. If they don't know what they want to spend just get a quick idea what they're looking for, and give them a quick guess while being entirely clear that you'll be nailing down a proper quote when they have a better idea of their budget, and what they're looking for.

-Nick

I've got a batch of basses in progress right now, and one of the customer was very vague about many of the particulars until after certain parts of the work were completed.

Example, after e-mailing back and forth for a while, and having him state "I like the way your basses look... make me one just like X only using the following woods and pickups." That was great, and I said I could do that for $XXXX... then when the bass is about 60% completed, I send him some "in progress" pictures. He then says (after I have constructed and fretted the neck) that he doesn't care for the way the fretboard transitions into the body (the way I specified with various pictures when drawing up the plans), and wants it changed. That's fine, but that's practically a redesign, given my neck construction using threaded inserts, if I just removed what he wanted gone, one of the inserts will be exposed to the light of day... if I don't make the change he wants, or if he doesn't like how I make the change, he may back out of the deal and demand his money back. This kind of thing makes me nervous... ya know?

When I worked in house construction/remodeling, we had what was called a "change order"... you want to make a change after a certain point, you pay a penalty charge for making the change, plus the cost difference for reconstructing/modifying your original plan. I didn't stick this guy with a charge, but I was wondering if that's something that you other builds do if something comes up after a certain point?

He then says (after I have constructed and fretted the neck) that he doesn't care for the way the fretboard transitions into the body (the way I specified with various pictures when drawing up the plans), and wants it changed. That's fine, but that's practically a redesign, given my neck construction using threaded inserts, if I just removed what he wanted gone, one of the inserts will be exposed to the light of day... if I don't make the change he wants, or if he doesn't like how I make the change, he may back out of the deal and demand his money back. This kind of thing makes me nervous... ya know?

:confused:
That's never happened to me before but seriously, once it's been built it's too late. Who's going to pay for your labour/time lost and lost material? Tell him politely that's how you usually build them and you had already asked him if that was fine. Make him understand the labour and mateiral cost involved in changing it. At worst, tell him you can change it if he pays for the extra material or time needed for it.

When I started thinking of selling instruments a few years ago, I exchanged a few e-mails with a pro builder and he gave me some pretty good tips. If the customer wants to bail out after deposit is paid and work has started then the customer needs to wait until you've finished the instrument and sold it to someone else before you reimburse him his deposit, minus a restocking fee (10-25% of deposit). This is something that stuck with me. Imagine having 3 orders that all three customers want to cancel for some reason, paying them all back at once is enough to make you go bankrupt.

This is a good thread, I remember back when I first started looking into having a custom bass built for me, I contacted various builder asking them loads of questions and looking for the best deals price wise. And how Im on the receiving end, I love getting emails and trying to help guys out with there ideas. It just gets me when guys ask whats the cheapest I can do a bass for. I understand its all about the costs, at least the guys Ive built for have been great. They truely love there basses and we are good friends. My instruments are personal to me as they are to most of you guys also.

Cheers,

Robbie.

To condense it a bit to the best ideas I've heard so far...

*Have a questionairre available for customers to help get their own thoughts together

*Make rough price and delivery time apparent early in the conversation

*Make the deposit & payment schedule adequate so that the builder can cover his expenses if the customer decides to back out after the build has begun

FWIW I have heard many stories like Shawn's. In cases like this, communication is really key; often times the "in progress" stuff will crystallize something in the customer's mind that he wasn't even aware of, and the customer needs to approach it with the expectation that it might be too late to make the change.

The builder also needs to be honest with the customer about the difficulties (or not) and added costs (or not) of the change the customer is requesting, and be willing to explain it to the customer from the builders perspective.

Excellent enlightening thread!

Working for a government contractor, my company sometimes gets a trickle of undocumented change requests to a fixed price project.
We call it- “spec creep”. It can be a business/morale killer

I've going on 4 basses from 4 builder's. Each experince has been unique.
With those experiences in mind,heres my humble advice, if you don't want to loose your shirt or your sanity;

-Make your rules, your process, and your prices clear.
-Know your strengths as a builder.
-Be true to your artistic vision.
Don’t compromise any of the above to please the customer, you’ll both lose. Oh, and document everything.

During one of my builds. The builder liked my from-scratch design enough to take it on.
However it had little to do with his personal vision, and it did not jive with his personal strengths.
There was no defined process/prices for upgrades or changes. Give and take on details was not well documented.
While its a fine bass, I wound up with something other than what I thought I specified.
He lost money going the extra miles and going outside his comfort zone to satisfy what he thought I wanted.
It broke both our hearts.

The next bass, the builder had a clear picture of what he offered, and the options were limited.
Kind of like customizing a motorcycle.
Basically -“work with me by my rules or go elsewhere”.
Though it wasn’t as personalized, he built my bass his way, that was tailored to his strengths and vision.
I got a great axe that was still uniquely my own.

I have little doubt that both parties will be winners on my current commission;
I designed another bass almost from scratch, but I sought out this builder for his vision.
While still very personal, I incorporated some of his style cues.
I catered the design to try to also reflect his aesthetic.
During this build, we’ve documented every little detail,head-to toe.
We've documented every little change.
Each detail and change has a documented cost.
And with every potential change, I keep in mind that though I’m the one paying, its his name on the instrument.

My most dear mistakes have been spending time tweaking designs and going over spec changes with people who hadn't put in a dime. ALL of them eventually disappeared. Never again. I'll say, sure, I can do all that, and we can go over it AFTER you send in your advance, I'm not working for free for anybody anymore.

It is tough to strike a balance between being a nice easy to deal with builder and a push over. That is for sure...t

My most dear mistakes have been spending time tweaking designs and going over spec changes with people who hadn't put in a dime. ALL of them eventually disappeared. Never again. I'll say, sure, I can do all that, and we can go over it AFTER you send in your advance, I'm not working for free for anybody anymore.

+1
Lets start a union I SAY!:bassist:

I've had mixed experiences on both sides of the fence. I used to run a business selling hand-built drums, and just as with you builders, most of my time was spent answering emails for people who never actually bought anything. In fact that disparity between time expended and dollars coming in was what eventually buried the business. The few people who did buy something were grateful for the time I spent helping them though.

I also know that the first time I ever ordered a custom bass, I was pretty much a nightmare customer- endless emails, finicky details, changing ideas after the build had started, trying to find ways to cheap out on certain features, etc. I didn't know any better, and the builder didn't do or say anything to straighten me out. Of course the bass was a disaster in the end. I think if the builder had either put up a page on their website laying down some clear ground rules, or if they had clearly and firmly communicated some ground rules early on in the discussion, we could have both saved ourselves some heartache and money.

Customers -even "smart" or "well intentioned" ones- cannot be expected to know how to "do it right" or do it according to what will work for you, the builder.

If I was going to start a custom-building business, I would make it a point to set each customer straight about some of these things right up front. That would let the lookie-loos and the serious customers know that your time is valuable. If I was in the "fully custom" business, "you dream it I'll build it", I would make it abundantly clear that my design and communication time costs money and is part of the end price I charge them. Ideally that would scare off budget-hunting dreamers yet would not scare off people who can actually pay for their dreams.

To condense it a bit to the best ideas I've heard so far...

*Have a questionnaire available for customers to help get their own thoughts together

*Make rough price and delivery time apparent early in the conversation

In my mind there are three types of custom builders. There are (1) luthiers who have their own designs and will change woods/electronics only, (2) builders who have their own models but will make large changes or handle "one off" designs and (3) guys that will build a customer design from scratch.

In the first case, a list of prices and option costs should eliminate most of these headaches. It's the guys in the second two groups who run into these types of problems with customers. I would put Bud LeCompte in the second category and I think his solution is pretty good as he lets a customer pick options and then emails back with a quote. He'll also do the same for a customer design though the exact price is obviously harder to pin down in the initial stages.

For a guy that is in the third category, I don't think there's any real solution except to go through the process knowing that a customer may back out. The only thing I can think of in that case is a polite reminder on the builder's web page that this is their job and that time spent working up quotes/renderings/answering emails for basses that never get built is taking away from their income.

From my perspective, I've daydreamed about a lot of basses but I wouldn't contact a builder unless I was serious about buying their work. And while most of the luthiers in this thread haven't been contacted by me, believe me if I had the money I'd own a bass from a lot of builders that frequent this site.

My most dear mistakes have been spending time tweaking designs and going over spec changes with people who hadn't put in a dime. ALL of them eventually disappeared. Never again. I'll say, sure, I can do all that, and we can go over it AFTER you send in your advance, I'm not working for free for anybody anymore.


I'd love to learn more about that process of yours Wilser. How does that work? I assume you refer most poeple to your price list on your website, what about after that? If they e-mail back saying they want something according to so much $$ on your site but with a few options like blah-blah-blah... what do you do?

Do you ask for a downpayment at that time or will go over specs or...? WHat sort of downpayment do you ak for? Is it more like a good percentage of the insturment to get you started or just a small amount of non-refundable money to get you started with some designs/renderings/quotes?

I'd love to learn more about that process of yours Wilser. How does that work? I assume you refer most poeple to your price list on your website, what about after that? If they e-mail back saying they want something according to so much $$ on your site but with a few options like blah-blah-blah... what do you do?

Do you ask for a downpayment at that time or will go over specs or...? WHat sort of downpayment do you ak for? Is it more like a good percentage of the insturment to get you started or just a small amount of non-refundable money to get you started with some designs/renderings/quotes?

most of those details are on my site, but here's how it goes. After initial contact I refer the customer to the price list and get their general options and ballpark price from there. If there's an option that's not listed there, I just tell them how much it would be, nothing more. If he asks if I can modify this or that on Model XYZ I say sure, but don't do it until the advanced payment is submitted. If there's anything that's too crazy of course I would need to get into a dialog with the customer, which is fine. If there's something I'm not willing to do I politely say "sorry, no". If the customer is unsure of what they want I can make some general recommendations, but NEVER-EVER following the "what can I do to make the bass sound like this" when talking about wood. I may recommend a specific pickup configuration or electronics, but that's as far as I go tone-wise. Once they say "ok, I want it, I'm ready to go" I'll submit a formal PDF with all the specs as detailed as I can get and their price (and I usually include quite a bit of freebies to which some of the latest customers can attest). That spreadsheet I use not only as quote, but also as work order, receipt (in soft form) and account statements which I update with each payment and send back to the customer in PDF format for his records. I don't do renderings, but refer customers to guys who do.

Of course, I haven't been using this model for long, only the last few basses and it's been working great so far.

I know this may seem odd to some customers who expect the procurer/manufacturer/sales team/marketer/accountant/expected niceguy/ass kisser that we are to give in to their each and every little command, but especially in cases like mine where I'm working part time, time IS money and if you're not serious about the order it could only be considered criminal to steal that time away from me, my family and my other customers.

On a specific case I had a guy who I had been talking with for about 2 months, making me change one of my original designs time and time again (over 6 times!), when he was happy with that he would then start throwing out specs one by one and asking me how that would affect the tone and the price.

Hopefully the people who have had to deal with me in the last couple of sales (Bobby, Bob, Rudy, etc) have had a good experience so far, which tells me the model works for my business.

Maybe it was because I had a good idea of what went into a custom bass beforehand, but in my experience, when I checked out the quotes for my custom build, it was actually a lot cheaper than I would've initially expected it to be.

Personally I don't think any builder should give much of a second thought to their quoted prices. You guys are the ones building the basses. It your time, your investment, your ultimate say in what all that is worth.

I haven't seen too many builders out there with unreasonable prices, and most that might be are just because those particular brands are much more well known (a la Fodera and the likes).

When I toyed with the idea of a custom bass, I exchanged a lot of emails. All of them replied to quickly and with no sense of frustration or rush. For as much trouble as he went to piecing out what I wanted, checking with wood sources to see if he could get what woods I wanted, what the pricing would be, I would've felt pretty bad had I not actually placed on order with him. I think however that pricing should be discussed early on. I asked for the base price before even thinking about the rest of the bass. Once I saw the base was reasonable for me, then I started asking about the specifics. Once the specifics were ironed out and I was indeed able to get what I wanted, I requested the deposit invoice and sent my money.

I imagine though that from the other side as a builder, you guys must have a great sense of pride when a customer chooses you personally to build a custom instrument.

For as much trouble as he went to piecing out what I wanted, checking with wood sources to see if he could get what woods I wanted, what the pricing would be, I would've felt pretty bad had I not actually placed on order with him.

I would have felt pretty bad too. The problem is that there's A LOT of people doing just that then disapearing. We all have gotten burnt this way and that's pretty much why this thread exists. Giving each other tips to get the burnin' hapenning as little as possible. :)

Anyone dealing with the public has similar difficulties. It can be very frustrating...I don't want your job!

I don't think any builder here has any problems with pricing issues (as in customer trying to jack the price down) but rather with the amount of time we're asked to put in without even knowing if the customer's gonna order.

Do not go down the road of pricing your custom basses like they are mass produced cheap knock-offsI have a bad habit of doing this. Recently, I installed new tuners, replaced the nut, and reglued the bridge of my friend's acoustic guitar for $20. A similar job elsewhere would have been, what... $75-100?

Hopefully the people who have had to deal with me in the last couple of sales (Bobby, Bob, Rudy, etc) have had a good experience so far, which tells me the model works for my business.

Hello everyone!

Here's another view from a customer point of view: Wilser has been very easy to deal with and has been extremely patient with me since my initial contact with him. Needless to say, I am sure I have been one to drive him nuts with my emails...sorry! :eek:

In any case, what has been most helpful in Wilser's approach is his initial response. He emailed me a few pics of his stock woods, and asked if any of these woods would do. Now, to be honest, I was unsure of the some details, but Wilser was approachable and responded to every inquiry with precision and detail. I might add that although I am a "decent" bass player, I am not well versed in woods/electronics/designs. Had it not been for Wilser's patience and guidance, I might have never ordered my bass from him. The reason might have been that all of the details can be intimidating to a customer, regardless of the amount they are willing to spend. :confused: I hope others will understand what I mean by that. I might add that I feel for the builders and their frustrations though. I generally believe that the builders here on this website, such as Wilser, have a passion for what they do. That's why you're building the basses! Without the passion, you guys wouldn't waste your time with us. NO MATTER THE COST! As a customer, I totally understand that time is money.

Additionally, now that I have spec'd out my bass and have had a pleasant experience, I am positive that I will be commissioning Wilser for my future builds. (That is, if he'll accept them.)

P.S. On an additional note, I have been in constant contact with Danny R..(Wilser's most recent build/customer) and he only has GREAT comments to speak of regarding Wilser and his experience with Scott/Redeemer basses. Please accept our admiration and thanks for the time you've both spent answering our questions and guiding us through the build process!

P.P.S. ...the part about me being a "decent" bass player is debatable...(Disclaimer) :D

OK guys - time for me to stop lurking and give my $.02

Im currently in the midst of having my third custom built, so I think I can offer a little in the way of customer experience.

I feel that builders being coy with the price of their builds is absolutely a contributing factor in time wasters. Whose fault is it when after exchanging 50 emails the customer gets told his bass will be $4k when he thought it might only be $1k?

When was the last time you saw a build thread here that stated the cost of the build?

Im sure I've been the pain in the neck customer to more than one builder (sorry Karl............), but when sending a wad of cash (up to $4k) to someone I've never met, in a country I've never been to, I surely want to know exactly what Im getting, and who I'm getting it from.

That said, I totally appreciate how dissapointing it must be for you guys to to have "tire kickers" waste your time.

Sorry if I've come across like I'm having a dig at you guys. This is my first stop on TB as a appreciate the maturity and no nonsense mood that you have here:)

On a side note, I actually asked Karl (Son of Magni) to build to $4k. He couldn't quite get there;)

... all of the details can be intimidating to a customer, regardless of the amount they are willing to spend. :confused: I hope others will understand what I mean by that.

A good point....anyone who has (for example) had a house built for them from the ground-up will be able to relate. The number of decisions you have to make is almost overwhelming (where to put the lights? where to put the light switches? switches or dimmers? where to put the outlets? don't forget to put outlets next to the cable TV jacks!!!! how many phone lines, and where? what kind of tile in the bathrooms? where do you want the washer/dryer? gas or electric heat? etc etc etc), and #1 it can be really tough to visualize it without an actual house sitting there, without furniture no less, and #2 after you move in, you ALWAYS wish you had done a few things differently.

By analogy....the more custom basses you order, the better you get at it! :D

I feel that builders being coy with the price of their builds is absolutely a contributing factor in time wasters. ... When was the last time you saw a build thread here that stated the cost of the build?

Never, because it would violate the TalkBass CUP. It is however quite easy to find a ballpark number from almost any builder's website. Just because you don't see it on a public forum doesn't mean the builder is being coy.

On a side note, I actually asked Karl (Son of Magni) to build to $4k. He couldn't quite get there;)

Hmmmm interesting, sounds like you need a Redeemer!! J.K!:p:D

When was the last time you saw a build thread here that stated the cost of the build?


just to clear things up on this ...

the TalkBass Commercial Use Policy (CUP) prohibits us builders from publicly sharing the price of our builds within a thread. we can only quote private via a PM, and then only if someone requests we send them one

I'm sure you didn't know this, so now you know the rest of the story


all the best,

R

I feel that builders being coy with the price of their builds is absolutely a contributing factor in time wasters. Whose fault is it when after exchanging 50 emails the customer gets told his bass will be $4k when he thought it might only be $1k?


EXCELLENT POINT! And here's my behavior on such situations. If the answer is yes I say "sure! it's a $XXX option" or "no, I can't do it because of XYZ" or "It can be done, but it can get as expensive as $XXX, I suggest XYZ alternative which wouldn't cost a dime more or just $X"

just to clear things up on this ...

the TalkBass Commercial Use Policy (CUP) prohibits us builders from publicly sharing the price of our builds within a thread. we can only quote private via a PM, and then only if someone requests we send them one

I'm sure you didn't know this, so now you know the rest of the story


all the best,

R

Yep, I sure didn't know that, makes a lot more sense now!
Seems a bit curious though, how is this different from somebody say "musicians friend has an amped svt-X for $1999"? Are you guys in the luthiers corner getting a raw deal?

no raw deal IMO whatsoever ... just the forum rules for anyone who is associated with a music/instrument related business. Paul established the house rules long ago, and all of us who participate here play by those rules

even though I currently am not in the commercial user category (business is closed until I reopen it after we relocate) I still obide by them (unless otherwise granted permission by the forum mod) in the spirit of what we're all about here at TB

all the best,

R

Seems a bit curious though, how is this different from somebody say "musicians friend has an amped svt-X for $1999"? Are you guys in the luthiers corner getting a raw deal?

If it was someone from Musician's Friend saying that, it would also violate the CUP. If it's Joe Schmoe who has no affiliation with MF, then it's ok.

Asad

Yep, I sure didn't know that, makes a lot more sense now!
Seems a bit curious though, how is this different from somebody say "musicians friend has an amped svt-X for $1999"? Are you guys in the luthiers corner getting a raw deal?

The short answer is, Musician's Friend doesn't make individual posts promoting their products.

The CUP allows us to post in-progress builds for educational purposes, but we are not allowed to promote our individual services. This is because the site is not intended for commercial use, but is rather for private individuals...

To Alexander Eddy:

Hope your most recent build/custom bass experience is a pleasant one... :O)

The short answer is, Musician's Friend doesn't make individual posts promoting their products.

The CUP allows us to post in-progress builds for educational purposes, but we are not allowed to promote our individual services. This is because the site is not intended for commercial use, but is rather for private individuals...

It'll also prevent this turning into a "who can build me X bass cheapest" bidding war forum.

BUMP!!! Maybe the lastest characters I've been getting will catch on....:scowl: