Hi Justin,
Thanks a lot for everything you do around here, this has been such an educational forum.

I'm seventeen and I've been playing bass for about 5 years now, I've always admired session players such as yourself, Herbie Flowers etc.

I'm wondering how you made the steps from playing in local bands to being this session god and what steps young players like myself should take if they aspire to become a session player.

Thanks a lot man.
Toby

Hi Justin,
Thanks a lot for everything you do around here, this has been such an educational forum.

I'm seventeen and I've been playing bass for about 5 years now, I've always admired session players such as yourself, Herbie Flowers etc.

I'm wondering how you made the steps from playing in local bands to being this session god and what steps young players like myself should take if they aspire to become a session player.

Thanks a lot man.
Toby

Hello Toby in Tasmania!

Well, I'm not sure, one day it just happened. I was on the scene as a guy available to play live in different local bands, then one day, a drummer friend (phenomenal LA drummer called Carol Es) called me and asked me to join her to record this hip hop record for this group called Circle of Power (not the metal band of the same name). Anyway, I did that one little thing, and it wasn't a big hit, but it sure got my name around. It snowballed from there.

You'll find yourself playing or recording with a friend, then all the sudden, you'll land in the studio. That work, if done well, will be a calling card for the next thing. It's a very natural process.

Best,
JMJ

Thanks a lot for your help. The other thing i'm wondering about is what importance you'd give to slapping, i'm fairly accomplished in fingerstyle technique but i can't slap to save myself. The sound doesn't appeal to me at all anyway. How often do artists ask you to slap, if at all, and how much will being a non-slapper limit the gigs a bassist gets?

Thanks again for everything.
Toby

Thanks a lot for your help. The other thing i'm wondering about is what importance you'd give to slapping, i'm fairly accomplished in fingerstyle technique but i can't slap to save myself. The sound doesn't appeal to me at all anyway. How often do artists ask you to slap, if at all, and how much will being a non-slapper limit the gigs a bassist gets?

Thanks again for everything.
Toby

OOOOOHHH BOY!! DON'T GET ME STARTED!!!!

It will not limit the gigs you get if you don't have those skills. Period. Well, unless you want gigs playing your seven-string piece of driftwood in front of your bedroom mirror. ;)

:hiding: Go ahead. Start the attacks.

That is a preposterous exaggeration, I know. Getting real now: there are gigs for it, just not the kind I do. Guys that do Top 40 gigs, wedding gigs, lots of varied stuff need to have some of those skills. In the R&B world? Fer shizzle. Gospel? Yes. Jazz/Fusion? Yup. Guys who do clinics, sure. Guys who play the NAMM show. That stuff has it's place, and I'm just trying to outline those places.

Slapping is asked for in my world once every 100 gigs. Most producers and engineers that I know talk about slapping as a complete joke. It's bass crime #1. When a bass player busts it out between takes in a session or during a rehearsal, everybody winces and second-guesses their hiring decision. And trust me: no one that makes cool rock, alternative whatever type records cares about your slapping technique. Only in jest do they care. Even in Macy Gray/Black Eyed Peas world that I'm always operating in, slapping is a major no no.

Beck asks me to slap (read: popping one note once in a while) on a song on Midnite Vultures called Milk & Honey, but that is it...and I assure you, it is done ironically.

I've said too much already. But I am trying to be somewhat balanced, as much as I dislike slapping, especially in its modern incarnation. **

Boo yah.

JMJ

** There are exceptions to my distaste: get your mind blown by Bootsy, Anthony Jackson, Chuck Rainey (Steely Dan's "Peg"), John Taylor, Flea, Larry Graham, and probably dozens of other great, tasteful TUNEFUL guys who slap that I can't think of off the top of my head. Most of them are old school, though.

Funny...I thought I saw a video of you on Youtube playing a 9 string Conklin where you were credited as Slappy McRoundwound ;)

Slap used to be cool until it became a parlor trick. Once that happened, it became the bassist's equivalent of shredding. I think if a guy like you slapped, it would be pretty remarkable and totally based on making a musical statement that needed to be made. Too bad all the wankers had to ruin it.

That post above me says it all.

Including the part about me with the 9-string Conklin. :bassist:

slapping is not a joke......
just watch this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWnLzghSk9M&feature=related

about 2 minutes in see JMJ in all his slapping glory!!

awesome p-bass tone in that clip :P

also hilarious fun

awesome p-bass tone in that clip :P

also hilarious fun

Oh dear, I've been found out.

Dig my lightning fast, dexterous skills?

That bass is a Mike Dirnt P-Bass that Mike lent me! That gig was a super informal thing, and we always keep some random extra gear in a luggage bay of the bus in case we want to do a surprise show at a club or make a low-key appearance somewhere. Anyway, that was a bass I could travel with, and the amp is my tiny little Line 6 10" combo! The tone was surprising. Anyway, as you can see, we kept the whole thing selfishly informal. But after we did that event (sort of like an MTV Unplugged vibe for Canada), we then found out they aired that show (which was filmed in and shown only in Canada) to millions!

G'night all.

JMJ

Oh dear, I've been found out.

Dig my lightning fast, dexterous skills?

JMJ

I think what makes your slap shreddage so pwnage is the complete uncomfortable awkwardness and the sheer look of disgust at the act your are committing.

Yep, I was right. Justin slapped to make a musical statement. Of course that statement was, "WTF?"

:cool:

In the R&B world? Fer shizzle.

I find it interesting that even in RnB, and not just the more alt stuff but even more mainstream, these days it seems like slapping is not used so much anymore(or maybe that's due to some degree to selective listening on my part:). When it is it's more like an effect to suggest a "throwback", like a period thing. Seems (as in other genres) lately in RnB producers more and more want classic tones and playing, old-school even. If not that, then it's synth, or a very pure bass guitar tone that's almost synth like--really long decay, hardly any high end to speak of, very much like a sine wave synth bass vibe.

True...but if you take a gig with an R&B artist on tour, you may very well have to bust out some slap.

In thse studio I play with Macy, Peas, some of Dre's people, various Will-I-Am productions, and I do all kinds of random sessions every month in the R&B and hip-hop worlds. (Some months, it's MORE of this kind of music than my actual specialty of "alternative rock" and it's various tributaries). In this world, they want classic tones. Sometimes dubby bass, sine-wave bass, synth bass, etc.

JMJ

True...but if you take a gig with an R&B artist on tour, you may very well have to bust out some slap.

In thse studio I play with Macy, Peas, some of Dre's people, various Will-I-Am productions, and I do all kinds of random sessions every month in the R&B and hip-hop worlds. (Some months, it's MORE of this kind of music than my actual specialty of "alternative rock" and it's various tributaries). In this world, they want classic tones. Sometimes dubby bass, sine-wave bass, synth bass, etc.

JMJ

Very cool. Curious then, what would you prolly use for more of that "modern" RnB sound if called on for it(and not from a synth)--y'know the big, endless decay, very smooth bass sound, (since I gather you're not whipping out the 6 string boutique active "coffee table with strings":)? I know lots of that sound is the compression and EQ and what-have-you, but what do you think you'd grab right off axe-wise?

I don't really have anything good for that. I've got my Jazz Bass Deluxe 5, I've got a Wal, nothing else in "coffee table" realm. Don't know what I would use in that case! But it's never been requested to have that sound anyway.

I don't really have anything good for that. I've got my Jazz Bass Deluxe 5, I've got a Wal, nothing else in "coffee table" realm. Don't know what I would use in that case! But it's never been requested to have that sound anyway.

Yeah, I just always assume those guys are using some kinda Ken Smith, Fodera, etc. but who knows? Maybe it's a MIM Jazz running through all kinds of tasty outboard!

Yeah, I just always assume those guys are using some kinda Ken Smith, Fodera, etc. but who knows? Maybe it's a MIM Jazz running through all kinds of tasty outboard!

Trust me: I know these cats. They're all rocking finely polished driftwood with (more than four) metal strings attached.

JMJ

Trust me: I know these cats. They're all rocking finely polished driftwood with (more than four) metal strings attached.

JMJ

I dunno if its cost I'm from a new generation or something. But i really really really hate the look of boutique basses. Whats wrong with paint!

I dunno if its cost I'm from a new generation or something. But i really really really hate the look of boutique basses. Whats wrong with paint!

you are not alone my friend

I must admit, though, I have secret G.A.S. for one of those Alembic John Paul Jones Triple Omegas just because it would be so over-the-top but retro too! Would be a lot to spend on irony though . . .
Otherwise, give me paint annd pickguards too . . ..

well, I dunno, although I dont like contradicting all you guys here, I think there is some merrit to custom boutique basses (when used tastfuly and respectively)!
I dont have a huge collection of basses, but for instance I own a custom hand made active 5 string with no paint job on it! :hiding:
and I love the sound and versatility of the instrument, the playability, the fact it was made for me, and all that.
on the other hand i have a '78 fender musicmaster equiped with a p piskup by the neck and a dano pickup behind it with the fattest vintage tone I heard (and goti it for 90$), and it has a paint job to die for:D

I think theres good sides to both types of instrument, in any case, its what you do with the instrument, not what it looks like!
I'd get just as annoyed by some "shred player" slapping and tapping his way to hell on a hofner as a 17 string Fodera!
on the other hand you cant deny the mojo of a dude like anthony jackson who plays a 6-string "driftwood" bass!:D

sorry, this was a long post:D

you cant deny the mojo of a dude like anthony jackson who plays a 6-string "driftwood" bass!:

Touché!

I'd get just as annoyed by some "shred player" slapping and tapping his way to hell on a hofner as a 17 string Fodera!
on the other hand you cant deny the mojo of a dude like anthony jackson who plays a 6-string "driftwood" bass!:D

In my and a lot of other people's opinion, Anthony Jackson cut his best stuff on a Jazz Bass, including his most famous line from "For The Love of Money" by the O'Jays. I'm just sayin'... :D

I try not to take out the music people play on the instruments they play. But I have to admit that I associate highly grained woods and boutique basses with wankery. Obviously, not all people who play them are wankers, but speaking for myself, I prefer not to give out that vibe. Even the boutique basses I own were made with fairly nondescript woods like mahogany and non-flamed maple. But they're plenty boutiquey enough for when I get hired to wank ;)

Werd up!

Dudes, this could go on forever. Ultimately, it's just taste and aesthetics.

JMJ

mkay, I agree there fo sho!:D
since we've obviously proven I'm right, I'm fine with that!:D

Oh dear, I've been found out.

Dig my lightning fast, dexterous skills?

That bass is a Mike Dirnt P-Bass that Mike lent me! That gig was a super informal thing, and we always keep some random extra gear in a luggage bay of the bus in case we want to do a surprise show at a club or make a low-key appearance somewhere. Anyway, that was a bass I could travel with, and the amp is my tiny little Line 6 10" combo! The tone was surprising. Anyway, as you can see, we kept the whole thing selfishly informal. But after we did that event (sort of like an MTV Unplugged vibe for Canada), we then found out they aired that show (which was filmed in and shown only in Canada) to millions!

G'night all.

JMJ

That's a nice bass you got there in that vid, JMJ :D. I have one of those. Great bass.

Sweet, right?? Glad you dig that bass too!

JMJ

** There are exceptions to my distaste: get your mind blown by Bootsy, Anthony Jackson, Chuck Rainey (Steely Dan's "Peg"), John Taylor, Flea, Larry Graham, and probably dozens of other great, tasteful TUNEFUL guys who slap that I can't think of off the top of my head. Most of them are old school, though.

Anthony Jackson=No slappy, ever.

I just have to say after reading this thread that I've never felt quite so at home in any other area of Talkbass.
I feel a certain comfort in knowing that words such as "articulate" in reference to bass tone will almost certainly never be uttered in JMJ's forum. :smug:

I've just found this thread and as a bass player, I have to say, what I've read makes me feel a little better !

It's funny how great slap can sound, but most of the time, I never "feel" that way on bass, you know ? I can do it for the covers thing, but for original music, I haven't felt it in years, with the exception of a solid thumb hit on various low notes for power.

I have a wonderful fretless 5 Wal that I play like most would play a P or a Jazz and I'm even feeling "flatwound seduction" creeping in...

So, I feel in good company for playing practical bass ! Slap IS awesome too...where appropriate. (which means "I" can't do it as well as EVERY other bass player I see ! )

slapping is not a joke......
just watch this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWnLzghSk9M&feature=related

about 2 minutes in see JMJ in all his slapping glory!!

This clip is just priceless-! ...I can't quite figure out if you guys are having a good time or not but either way it's gloriously entertaining.

We're having a good time...just sort of going with the flow. :-)

This was hilarious.....

Just out of curiosity, what do you think led to the trend away from slap stuff?

JMJ, it's an honor to post in your section of TB. When it comes to r&b, I think players come in two major groups: super boutique guys, and factory dudes. I think that highend boutiques fit the asthetic of Urban Gospel which is pretty flashy and over the top (I say that as a church goer/player.) I think that often players who are more into Neo-Soul and contemporary r&b are trending towards more simple basses, often four strings. Of course, those who like boutique Fender style basses split the difference!:D

Dr. Cheese, I believe you have hit the nail on the head. From the various cats that I know in the greater world of R&B, they definitely seem to fit into one of those two categories.

Well stated!

JMJ

This was hilarious.....

Just out of curiosity, what do you think led to the trend away from slap stuff?

I know you asked JMJ, but I think a few things have combined to hurt slap. First, in r&b, the growth of synths and drum machines killed live bands, and then sampling really undid alot of studio work. I think when live instruments started to come back in the late 1990's, there was a conscious effort to look back to the early Seventies and Sixties as an inspiration rather than the Funk era of the late Seventies and early Eighties.

In Pop, I really think that over the top slapping, like Flea and the great Robert Trujillo, made slapping look like a parlor trick instead of a musical technique to many people.

I think slap will stay strong in Smooth Jazz because the slapped bassline and coffee table bass are as much a part of that genre's aesthetic as the double bass is part of Straight ahead Jazz's aesthetic. Slap is still strong in Urban Gospel, but Urban Gospel tends to follow r&b, and I think slap is declining there also.

Another great answer, Doc, that's definitely most accurate for the times. But I must say that slap has always had a lot of detractors from the beginning, and it didn't really need over-the-top guys like Flea and Les Claypool to sour people on it. I remember hearing Chuck Rainey talking about how he had to turn his back from Steely Dan to sneak a slap line into "Peg" because they hated slap, too. I tried to slap in bands when I was a kid and I would get yelled at for it as well. So from my spot in the cheap seats, I think it really hasn't had an identity crisis recently...it's been that way for a long time.

Fascinating, thanks for these contributions.

Fascinating, thanks for these contributions.
Well, we've seen your take on slapping in other threads, but was there ever a time you were interested in developing slap skillz? Did you ever put any time into it or were you disinterested in it from the beginning?

If you don't mind me yapping a little bit about slap whilst I try to get sleepy, one of the most bizarre musical experiences I ever had was seeing Bass Central's Beaver Felton in 1980. He played in a prog-rock band from Tampa called Hoochie, and they did a lot of Yes, ELP, Rush, and Genesis, and Beaver actually slapped his way through it all! It was really off-putting at first, like if Stanley Clarke joined Yes and tried to force them to be a funk band, but after a while I started getting into the uniqueness of it because he did it so well. It definitely set Beaver apart from the rest of the pack because nobody else would have the balls to slap "Roundabout." I figured I'd try it in my band, but that's when I discovered that not everyone liked slap ;)

Im not a big fan of slapping. I give all the credit in the world to someone who can cause i couldnt slap myself out of a paper bag;). I just couldnt listen to a who album of it.