Has anyone every used one of these? I just ordered one after playing one on David Murray's solo bass, the resonance on his bass was great and really playable. My bass struggles with wolftones and slow response so I guess I'll try it. I'll tell everyone how it works, also finally got the EP E string to finish the set.

I'm looking forward to your report Eli. I've been thinking about making one of those, just to hear what it does for the sound.

Well I can tell you that on David Murray's bass you could hit a low g on the E string, dampen it, then at least two other harmonics would still ring clear, all the overtones sort of jumped out of the strings. That bass was strung with permanent solos, and is a naturally bright bass meant for solo rep. It will be very interesting to see what kind of effect it has on my very dark big, Romanian hybrid.

To find out what the tailpiece sounds like, you have to make it the one change you make on a bass you know well.

If you do two things at once, you can't know which change did what.

You'll know soon. :D

Eli,
Did you ever install the tailpeice?
Diana's got one on a bass in her studio, and I've been kind of interested in trying one out lately. For me, Spiros work fine as a hybrid string, but I find that they can be kind of slow and wolfy arco.

I haven't yet, but I should this week, I had an audition for the Youth Symphony today, and didn't want to change anything right before an audition. I should be able to get back in the next week or so.

I has taken me two months but I think I can give a good review now. when I first put on the tailpiece I was a little scared as at first it actualy made the bass too resonant, to the point that it had more wolftones and an unfocused tone, but this passed in the first week or so. Now the bass is WAY WAY LOUDER, my bass was loud before but now it can play with any group, it can even hold its own in my wind band and brass ensembles. Everything is also more focused now, when you play a note it pops out of the bass and is very clear. Probably my favorite change that it has made for my bass is the response, when I lay my bow in the string the notes articulate very quickly and I can get a great staccato with a lot of bite(this is a lot in the bow technique, but the bass has helped). The one problem I had is that through its ability to cancel wolftones the afterlength of the string and the individual wires vibrate quite a bit on select notes. This wouldnt be a problem except that I didn't put on the dampening felt that goes around the wires and the vibrations cause the brass rings that hold the balls of the strings to bang together. This was an easy fix with a little padding and duct tape. The other negative is I have had a hard time adjusting to not having a quiver, I almost threw my bow on the floors a few times.

I has taken me two months but I think I can give a good review now. when I first put on the tailpiece I was a little scared as at first it actualy made the bass too resonant, to the point that it had more wolftones and an unfocused tone, but this passed in the first week or so. Now the bass is WAY WAY LOUDER, my bass was loud before but now it can play with any group, it can even hold its own in my wind band and brass ensembles. Everything is also more focused now, when you play a note it pops out of the bass and is very clear. Probably my favorite change that it has made for my bass is the response, when I lay my bow in the string the notes articulate very quickly and I can get a great staccato with a lot of bite(this is a lot in the bow technique, but the bass has helped). The one problem I had is that through its ability to cancel wolftones the afterlength of the string and the individual wires vibrate quite a bit on select notes. This wouldnt be a problem except that I didn't put on the dampening felt that goes around the wires and the vibrations cause the brass rings that hold the balls of the strings to bang together. This was an easy fix with a little padding and duct tape. The other negative is I have had a hard time adjusting to not having a quiver, I almost threw my bow on the floors a few times.

Hey Eli,you can apparently attatch a quiver to it...check the faqs area of the marvin site!:)

I saw that but they also suggest it will work best with the smallest amount of mass, so I have been playing with it sans quiver.

Do you have the newer looking marvin or the old one? the new ones look really strange...

Do you have the newer looking marvin or the old one? the new ones look really strange...

I'm not sure which ones which, but mine has the braided wire coming over the saddle that splits into four staggered length wires with brass rings that attach to the strings, it comes with the black felt dampening cover that has adhesive to attach it to the wires.

This revival is inspiring me to write a bit of my own review:

In the month and a half that I've had the tailpiece, I've found that the most noticeable change it made on my instrument is an increased snappiness. Right now I've got a set of Spiro mittels on, and the tailpiece really gives them an almost gutlike elasticity. Of course, they're still somewhat stiffer, and they still sound like Spiros. It's really made my already quite playable instrument very, very easy to play.

Tonewise, they've brightened up my instrument quite a bit, and I perceive an increase in sustain. Everything's feeling and sounding looser and brighter. Double and triple stops really ring out now. Not really for everyone, but it really suits the sound I'm going for.

Most of my observations come from a jazz standpoint, as my classical arco experience is super limited. I do, however, sense that the strings have become much easier to start, and whenever I'm practicing or soloing with the bow, there are more clear notes than before, particularly in the middle and extreme high registers.

Also, I use a quiver with mine, and I've got both of my pickup jacks mounted on it. I avoided the quiver for a while, but I actually felt like, on my bass, the tailpiece would benefit from a little extra weight. Without the quiver, open strings had a tendency to sound hollow, with perhaps some of the over resonance that Eli described. Putting the quiver on solved any of those problems. Now the tailpiece is working great.

Yeah it made my bass alot brighter too, it was ultra dark before though so it evened out nicely. I also experience the easier playing with the left hand, though I play Evah's and they are real tight, so it brought them somewhere easier.

I'd be willing to give one of these a try, but after seeing it I kind of choke on the $80 price tag. Is there really anything to it that couldn't be put together from bits from the hardware store and a little creativity?

The braided wire would be hard to do, but it does look pretty simple, but thats supply and demand for you, I think its worth it. but think of it this way that would by you an uncarved ebony tailpiece that wouldn't be half as good in my opinion.

I'm not sure which ones which, but mine has the braided wire coming over the saddle that splits into four staggered length wires with brass rings that attach to the strings, it comes with the black felt dampening cover that has adhesive to attach it to the wires.

Is the dampener for show or is it really necessary? I find the dampener really ugly.

Is the dampener for show or is it really necessary? I find the dampener really ugly.

Its not necessary at all it does help to control vibration of the afterlength of the strings, the brass rings can bang together without it, I think its supposed to look like a traditional tail piece, alot of people just buy some colorful felt ( you can match your string silks) and weave i through the wires, it has the same effect.

Its not necessary at all it does help to control vibration of the afterlength of the strings, the brass rings can bang together without it, I think its supposed to look like a traditional tail piece, alot of people just buy some colorful felt ( you can match your string silks) and weave i through the wires, it has the same effect.

I like the old Marvin tailpiece better, when it had that woven grey spiral instead of the black felt dampener

I like the old Marvin tailpiece better, when it had that woven grey spiral instead of the black felt dampener

yeah me too, thats why I didnt put it on.

yeah me too, thats why I didnt put it on.

do they still make the old one? do you know if the new one has any actual sonic improvements? i heard that the dampener addition was to make it look more "normal"...if anything it just makes it look more ugly.

How does a wire tail piece effect the string tension?
If the tailpiece is a wire like the strings, would the added length of wire translate into added tension to tune up?

do they still make the old one? do you know if the new one has any actual sonic improvements? i heard that the dampener addition was to make it look more "normal"...if anything it just makes it look more ugly.

I can't tell any difference it looks the same as the old ones I've seen, Just to clarify the felt is put on by you, so you can choose to omit it, and the colored felt you could choose to buy yourself and put on.

I can't tell any difference it looks the same as the old ones I've seen, Just to clarify the felt is put on by you, so you can choose to omit it, and the colored felt you could choose to buy yourself and put on.

Just talked to Mr. Marvin, REAL nice guy. He said he has a bunch of the old buffers in multiple colors and is going to be marketing both buffers from now on. :)

Just talked to Mr. Marvin, REAL nice guy. He said he has a bunch of the old buffers in multiple colors and is going to be marketing both buffers from now on. :)

That's great, at some point I'm going to go to a sewing store and get either some felt or silk to put on there for decoration teal to match the Evahs I would guess.

well i'm a sucker or this kind of thing and i just ordered one ( why is there always some cat early in a thread like this who complains that the $80 is too much and cant he steal the idea and make it himself...BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T THINK OF IT AND IT AINT YOUR IDEA...but whatever) I ordered one today and Kevin who seems hardworking and honest told me that Rufus Reid has them on his basses... Rufus always has the latest improvements and thats good enough for a trial...
Looking forward to the trial.
Generally I just love innovators, cats who think up something new and let it rip.

well i'm a sucker or this kind of thing and i just ordered one ( why is there always some cat early in a thread like this who complains that the $80 is too much and cant he steal the idea and make it himself...BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T THINK OF IT AND IT AINT YOUR IDEA...but whatever) I ordered one today and Kevin who seems hardworking and honest told me that Rufus Reid has them on his basses... Rufus always has the latest improvements and thats good enough for a trial...
Looking forward to the trial.
Generally I just love innovators, cats who think up something new and let it rip.

That would be a recent addition, when he was at the Richard Davis conference in April he had an ebony one, at least on his Busseto bass, which oddly enough had a wooden peg endpin coming out at a weird angle a la Rabbath/Laborie. The notable people that have them, at least to my knowledge are; David Murray Professor at Butler, Volkan Orhon Professor Iowa, and Anthony Stoops Professor Oklahoma.

You could probably just find a nice leather strap somewhere and make your own... this looks like a fun expirement.

I would use a spatula. No doubt about it.

You would first need a bass body made out of a kitchen sink tho. :eyebrow:

Thank you everyone for the kind words and great reviews. It is good to hear the feedback about the preference for the zig-zag buffer. I also prefer that buffer but had a lot of input to make the tailpiece look more traditional. Therefore the old buffer is coming back as an option.
Because of current job commitments I have not been able to spend as much time developing this tailpiece as I would like but, hopefully, that will change this fall.
My local newspaper wrote an article about the tailpiece several weeks ago. You can read it online at:
Burlington Free Press: Making a Better Bass (http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080601/NEWS01/80531024)

Sincerely,
Kevin Marvin
www.marvinUSA.com

You would first need a bass body made out of a kitchen sink tho. :eyebrow:


There, there. I was only kidding.

I know. So was I. :)

why is there always some cat early in a thread like this who complains that the $80 is too much and cant he steal the idea and make it himself

A tailpiece made of wire. Why shouldn't a guy try it himself. Or one of wood, metal, glass, or anything else. Not all people feel the need to pay others to experiment with funky ideas!

A tailpiece made of wire. Why shouldn't a guy try it himself. Or one of wood, metal, glass, or anything else. Not all people feel the need to pay others to experiment with funky ideas!
sorry dude,
its just that every time some cat innovates and tries to make a little bread, there is someone who thinks that since the idea is out there it is free. i just really like to support the innovators as much as i can.

"Its just that every time some cat innovates and tries to make a little bread, there is someone who thinks that since the idea is out there it is free. i just really like to support the innovators as much as i can."

Nice sentiment and I agree. And putting together that collection of aircraft cable is going to cost money too.

Cable, clamps and rings in three different places scattered around town.
$20.00 in materials, $20 in gas plus 2 hours driving.
A couple more hours to figure out what you want to do and how and you're getting close to the purchase price.
2 more hours and $20.00 more gas getting your bass to the luthier after you drop the soundpost. :)
Subtract the money you didn't earn doing what you're good at for 4 hours.

I had a kid bring in his violin to the store today because he dropped the soundpost while changing the strings. Long & McQuade charges $12.00 to change a set of violin strings - or he could have called and asked for advice......

A tailpiece made of wire. Why shouldn't a guy try it himself. Or one of wood, metal, glass, or anything else. Not all people feel the need to pay others to experiment with funky ideas!

Go for it. I personally don't like experimenting with do-it yourself projects on my instrument which pays my rent. I'd personally pay 80.00 then have a luthier install it and make sure everything is sound. To each his/her own.

This tailpieces seems to be just what I need to get a better response from my bass. I play Bluegrass and while most want to just hear the BOOM. I would like more definition in the sound, but volume is always a problem, not to mention Wolf tones. I would like to say I have a 200 hundred year old carved bass,but It an inexpensive ply wood. I wish some one had something bad to say about these tailpieces, but I have not found anyone who as of yet. Maybe the Bluegrass bass world will
take to this. I'll let ya'll know how it works out


John

Doley50,

It sounds like you are close to putting a Marvin TP on your plywood and I'd appreciate hearing from you and other ply owners your experience with this tailpiece.

I have a ply Eberle and my issues are the same. Need a strong fundamental and volume for old-time, bluegrass and celtic.

The stock Eberle tailpiece hanger is the "coat hanger wire" style and one of the first things i plan to upgrade. I was planning to go with the cord style, but it looks like on the Marvin TP the hanger is part of the tailpiece(?) Anyway, from all that has been described it looks to me too that this TP could do good things for laminate basses.

I first saw Mr Marvin's Cable Tailpiece at the 2007 ISB convention and when I got home I measured my Bass and ordered one.
It only took a half hour to install, anyone could do it, and the difference it made was worth far more than the $80 -$90 he's asking for them.
The resonance and depth of sound added were amazing, and a wolf tone was tamed as well.
Also, this tailpiece gave my Bass a much smoother sound and maybe a little more volume and projection.
It made such a difference that I ordered another tailpiece and installed it on my other Bass with similar results.
After hearing the difference in my bass, two other local Bassists have also made the switch and several more are interested but haven't got around to it yet.
I'm convinced, and for the price I don't think you'll find a better upgrade for yor Bass.

I just ordered mine last night. My Upton has problems with wolf notes and doesn't project as well as i like so i hope this will take care of my problems. I cant wait!

Do you guys know of any light weight quivers that would work with this tailpiece? I don't want something that will be too heavy or affect the tailpieces sound.

I've been using an old one I bought from Lemur many years ago ( they were still in Bloomington then ) and it works great.
It is quite light and is made of soft leather.
Its somewhat lighter than the hard leather ones you see around but I don't know if its still available these days.
At the upper end I've attached it to the ring the string goes through and it hasn't caused any problems.

My Marvin tailpiece just arrived about two hours ago. The first thing that jumped out at me was the sustain. The notes ring for way longer than before, also the sound seems to be brighter which really helps my dark sounding upton. I cant wait to see what other effects it has in the future! I'll leave another up date in a month or two. But at the moment i am very pleased with the effects.

everything sounds good about this to me except the bright thing...

funny, I didn't find it increased the brightness on my Bass.
As far as tonal balance goes, the tailpiece gave the effect of taming the midrange somewhat giving the Bass more smoothness and depth.
It's a fairly new instrument ( 4 yrs) and this tailpiece seemed to loosen it up and give it a more open sound as well as more sustain and volume.

everything sounds good about this to me except the bright thing...

It will mainly make a bright instrument brighter, My bass didn't seem to change the tone all that much except that the upper register is brighter and more punchy.

What i did for my quiver was i got some vel-cro and put two little squares on my bass and attached my quiver to it. I tied it on loosely onto the top of my tailpiece for support and it works very well!

I have had my Marvin tailpiece on for a couple of days. This has easily been the single most dramatic improvement I have made on my instrument, and it only took $80 and an hour of installation time.

My bass’ former muddiness and woftones are all gone. Everything is clearer, more even, more responsive, and more "transparent" sounding. No dramatic increase in "brightness" but certainly a big increase in lucidity.

The strings feel more flexible on both hands, but not at all floppy. Easier to finger up near the nut. Nice feel on the right hand when playing pizz.

Got it one business day after my online order, along with a nice, personal email from Kevin Marvin telling me when to expect the product. The whole thing arrives in a small, flat envelope and weighs next to nothing. It arrives looking like a little letter!

One thing I hadn't considered is the effect on the strings of moving the contact points with the bridge and the nut. So now, a couple of my strings have little dents at the former contact points. Doesn’t seem to have hurt the Belcantos’ action, though. While the tailpiece swap is reversible (one can always replace the old tailpiece, if desired), the strings will bear witness to the relatively different bridge/nut locations (since the strings' attachment points vary with the type of tailpiece). For this reason, installation may warrant replacement for some of the more delicate string brands.

This thing works brilliantly. My bass is much more fun to play. Doesn’t feel like a fight any more…the bass is much more responsive. So refreshing to have something that works as well as advertised…

Its nice to see that everyone is having the same positive experience that I had. It seems that so far everyone thinks its a great invention.

I've recently begun perusing "The Setup and Repair of the Double Bass for Optimun Sound" by Chuck Treger. In the chapter on 'Mode Matching' he says, "This is the Fourth Genie of Sound and Playability, and it is the Master Genie as it does the most to help the sound and playability of the bass, and also the evenness if volume between notes".
Basically, mode matching has to do with tuning the fingerboard/neck and the tailpiece with the bass body using tap tones and singing or electronically producing a tone into the body. (Hopefully some of you more familiar with this will correct or add to this description).
As to the subject of this thread, Treger places a lot of importance on obtaining the correct tailpiece weight and wire length. Here is a short quote from the section "For the Pizz Player": "With any tailpiece Mode Matching it is best to start with the lightest possible tailpiece because changing the length and/or placement of the tailpiece wires across the saddle is much more effective in altering the note of the tailpiece than the weight of the tailpiece".
Is it possible that by doing away with the tailpiece entirely, as Marvin has done, the mode conflicts inherent in standard (and untuned) tailpieces are simply either eliminated or made insignificant?
Disclaimer: I am not a luthier, nor have I any expertise in this subject. I simply bought the book in order to gain some basic understanding of the construction and set-up of the bass. I thought this might be relevant to the discussion.
Cheers
Dave Little

I have read Traeger's book, too, as well as Bob Branstetter's well-written paper on AO-BO matching.

I understand that some luthiers feel that mode matching is relatively unimportant (at best) while others feel that it is a logical (and essential) way to address conjoined vibrating bodies. While I have read several heated discussions here, I lack the knowledge or desire to comment on this issue.

This small, anecdotal trial appeared to be worth a shot, since the experiment was both relatively reversible and inexpensive. For my modest bass, it seemed like a reasonable thing; to try to virtually eliminate one of the vibrating (or dampening) bodies (or at least significantly reduce and disperse the mass).

Whatever the physics at work, this thing is an improvement, on my bass. It seems that by using the Marvin tailpiece I have eliminated one of the vibratory trouble spots.

The other thing the design does is narrow the axis around which the tailpiece/strings/instrument body twists as it vibrates; there is only the single braided cable passing over the saddle and the whole assembly is about 2" (or so wide).

I was careful not to change anything else when I swapped out the tailpieces. Same strings, same rosin, same bow, same soundpost setting, same temperature, same humidity levels. I wanted to see what the tailpiece would do on its own.

Thanks for the thoughtful report Eric. It sounds like a worthwhile improvement. :)

I installed a Marvin tailpiece on my bass today. The first snag I hit was installing the Velvet Animas and Garbos. I am not sure if anyone else done this before or whether I am the first but the brass strings on the Marvin tailpiece seem to be clearly designed for strings with ball ends. The Velvet strings have fabric ends with loops. Now you could install the Velvets around the brass rings as is but I wasn't going to dare try it because the edges of the rings are not rounded. In fact while I wouldn't say they are sharp, they are not far from it. I could just see the edges cutting into the fabric and eventually BANG. First I tried filing the edges but I realised that it was going to take me a very long time to get them all rounded and smooth. I then tried wrapping small strips of duct tape around them and that was nothing but a mess. I finally decided on using some leather. Leather does seem to be very useful when it comes to basses. I have leather bumpers and leather under my extension gates not to mention a leather bib. I had to search through the house but finally came up with a small carrying case that had a strap that I could cut up into small strips and I used that between the string ends. You can see pics here:

http://www.adriancho.com/tumblelogImages/MarvinTailpieceWithVelvetStringsLeftSide.jpg

http://www.adriancho.com/tumblelogImages/MarvinTailpieceWithVelvetStringsRightSide.jpg

You'll see that I did not loop the string through the small hole in each brass ring but around the width of the entire ring. That way the leather is between the fabric of the string and the brass ring at all times.

The other problem I had was that the brass rings and the cables would sometimes hit one another especially if I pizz'ed hard. Luthier, Don Gorman, had warned me about this but I figured that the bridge on my bass is pretty big and the spacing is reasonably wide so I hadn't expected this to be a problem. I ended up (as you will see in the photos), weaving the supplied piece of foam rubber between the various metal bits. Problem solved.

The final step was repositioning my Full Circle jack which I had previously velcro'd behind the tailpiece. Now it's behind the bow quiver.

The most noticeable differences in sound are that it is clearer and more consistent across the strings. The strings also speak more quickly and under the fingers and with the bow and when pizz'ing, the strings feel more elastic. Overall, I think it's a good improvement and I'm sure the bass also needs a bit of time to adjust to this change.

I do think something else needs to be done to better support the installation of the Velvets. Perhaps the rings should come pre-wrapped with a small leather strip at the top of the ring and it could be rotated to reveal the small hole for those with ball end strings or rotate to the "top" of the ring so that Velvet strings can sit on it.

I had the same problem with the brass rings hitting, I solved it by wrapping the ring that was hitting with some flexible padding for furniture feet and some tape. Also I believe you are supposed to use a special deburring devise for the holes regardless of the string type so that the edges of the hole do not damage or break your strings.

There's nothing in the instructions about any deburring being required. I would hope that if deburring of the small holes was required for normal strings, that the brass rings would come already prepared that way.

There's nothing in the instructions about any deburring being required. I hope think that if for normal strings, deburring of the small holes was required, that the brass rings would come already prepared that way.

Adrian, thanks so much for the post...Don's putting a Marvin on my new bass when it's done in 3 weeks. I was wondering about gut strings and if they'd work well with the marvin. Thanks for the info!!

I'm ready to pull the trigger on this one, but ....

Does anyone have a comment on how the Marvin affects the amplified sound?

Does the bass become more prone to feedback?

Has anyone needed to have their soundpost adjusted due to the installation?

Thanks!!

Turns out Kevin has a special model of the tailpiece that has rings for Velvet strings. Only problem is that I never knew such a thing existed! Rufus Reid is apparently using this special model. Kevin is a great guy and immediately offered to send me the Velvet-compatible model.

I'm ready to pull the trigger on this one, but ....

Does anyone have a comment on how the Marvin affects the amplified sound?

Does the bass become more prone to feedback?

Has anyone needed to have their soundpost adjusted due to the installation?

Well I played a three hour gig with a 17-piece band on Sunday and therefore used more amplification than I often would. At times we were pretty loud and I had to turn up more than I often would. I could not detect any difference in possible feedback. As far as the soundpost go, the one thing I will mention is that my G string was previously quite strong but with the tailpiece wire it is not as loud. This is not actually as bad as it sounds because the sound is actually now more consistent across the strings.

Thanks Adrian, exactly the situation I was looking for feedback (pun intended :D) on. I play mostly on the quiet side and as much as possible, unplugged. However, I do find myself in the cramped loud situation on a regular basis.

This thing sounds too good to be true, but by the comments I've read it lives up to it's reputation. I'm going to order one in a couple of days.

Any other thoughts/comments that I might not be aware of?

cheers

There's nothing in the instructions about any deburring being required. I would hope that if deburring of the small holes was required for normal strings, that the brass rings would come already prepared that way.

Yeah that's what I told my luthier but he insisted on deburring the hole again.

I just sprung for one since I recently, I found a crack on my Pecanic's TP. The cracks goes from the D hole to the ebony stripe (my tp has a ebony stripe down the middle). The cause was when I installed the olives, the strings were too big and caused it to split. I doubt if it will break any further but it's just a precaution. Also, if I ever get around to doing a refin on my bass, the colors of the TP will no longer match.

I'll report once it's installed. I'm hoping it means I can raise my strings even further - more sound. :)

Oh no doubt you'll get more sound, you might not even need to raise your strings. That was the biggest difference for me, was just increased volume and a lot of it.

My neighbors are going to hate me. :p
I will try this thing first... and once I find the time, I'm going to get some Sloane machines and do the refin. This will end up being an Uber-Christopher Hybrid and maybe a new bridge. :D

This will end up being an Uber-Christopher Hybrid . . .

I have a Johannes Kohr hybrid busetto (K64B), which I understand to be a rebranded Christopher. We may well have essentially the same bass.

I'd be interested in hearing how this turns out. Any chance you could make some recordings before and after?

Thx,
Michael

Sure, I'll pull out the Zoom H4 for this.

All the overtones sort of jumped out of the strings. That bass was strung with permanent solos, and is a naturally bright bass meant for solo rep. It will be very interesting to see what kind of effect it has on my very dark big.

Dear friends last weekend i received my wire tailpiece and i'd like to share with you my experience. Let me tell you that when i received my new DB i made a meticulous mode matching between the FB tap tone and the tailpiece tap tone. I used a programme named "Overtone analyser", obtained by Bodo Maas (www.sygyt.com), and the matching improved dramatically the sound (response, sustain and dapth). I new the concept from the violins i made and the results were as expected.
When i fitted the wire tailpiece the DB changed altogether. It became a much,much better instrument, with more volume, more sustain and a better playability (attributed IMHO to teh additional elasticity of the tail's cables). I am still astonished from the results and given the fact that i have not yet set properly the soundpost i expect even better results.
I believe that the wire tailpiece eliminates the need for mode matching and improves the bridge's vibrations to the optimum level. Since i play only pizzicato, i'll try the same experiment with one of my arco using friends in order to establish a more complete idea about this marvelous tailpiece and i'll keep you informed.

Dear friends last weekend i received my wire tailpiece and i'd like to share with you my experience. Let me tell you that when i received my new DB i made a meticulous mode matching between the FB tap tone and the tailpiece tap tone. I used a programme named "Overtone analyser", obtained by Bodo Maas (www.sygyt.com), and the matching improved dramatically the sound (response, sustain and depth). I knew the concept from the violins i made and the results were as expected.
When i fitted the wire tailpiece the DB changed altogether. It became a much,much better instrument, with more volume, more sustain and a better playability (attributed IMHO to teh additional elasticity of the tail's cables). I am still astonished from the results and given the fact that i have not yet set properly the soundpost i expect even better results.
I believe that the wire tailpiece eliminates the need for mode matching and improves the bridge's vibrations to the optimum level. Since i play only pizzicato, i'll try the same experiment with one of my arco using friends in order to establish a more complete idea about this marvelous tailpiece and i'll keep you informed.

I had the same experience except that I had not had the mode matching done on my modest bass. I tried the Marvin, hoping that it would eliminate that issue, (at least with the tailpiece end of things). My Marvin trial was this cheap man's attempt to postpone that next step.

Seems that all of us are having similar results, regardless of playing style/technique.

As I said before, I am getting noticeably improved clarity and consistency, arco and pizz, than I had previously, with fairly low strings (5-8mm). I like that. :)

I'm so glad to see that I had a profound effect by posting about my experience with this thing. I hope everyone gets a chance to share their new found knowledge with all their bassist friends.

I'm so glad to see that I had a profound effect by posting about my experience with this thing. I hope everyone gets a chance to share their new found knowledge with all their bassist friends.

Its said by many folks in sales and marketing that a prospect needs to hear about and/or see a product three (3) times in order to buy it.

I had read about this tailpiece elsewhere and was curious. Your thread here was my reference point #3. :)

Ok so I put on the tailpiece, tensioned the bass and started listening: I know my bass very well and it has been stable and unchanged for about a year now (same strings too).
The Marvin Tailpiece does this for my instrument: it makes it somewhat louder...not shout from the rooftop louder but noticeably louder. It seems to vibrate more openly and the harmonics are more bell like and pure.
Where it really counts: the notes (all the way up) on the A and E have a depth and openness that sings like the rest of the instrument. This is particularly evident and useful in thumb position.
THe pizz as advertised is the same tension but easier to play and the notes sound fatter like more fundamental is coming thru at the beginning of the attack. Kind of like suddenly realizing that all the pictures you were taking previously were slightly fuzzy and out of focus.
The quickness of response both with the bow and particularly pizz is beautiful,and addictive and the bass seemed to take to the increased vibration like it was waiting for it.
Will it make an inferior instrument sound like a great one? I doubt it, in fact in may just amplify the problems, but it may also solve some in instruments that could really benefit from the increased vibration.

FYI, I exchanged further e-mail with Kevin Marvin and he agrees it would be good to have a single model that can accommodate both the Velvet and regular strings. He's working on that and I hope to get to try it out soon.

As far as the sound goes now that I have been playing on mine more, the sound is definitely clearer, brighter (which may not be a good thing to some people), and quicker to speak. On my bass, the G used to be booming and it actually seems softer now but on the other hand, the volume, tone and response across all the strings is a lot more consistent.

only problem I'm having is it makes me feel as though I've got a thong bikini on...

FLAPJACK, please don't post a photo! :D

only problem I'm having is it makes me feel as though I've got a thong bikini on...

I fear that just reading this may have damaged me...:eek:

only problem I'm having is it makes me feel as though I've got a thong bikini on...

That's it, I'm definitely ordering one tomorrow!! ...;) :D

only problem I'm having is it makes me feel as though I've got a thong bikini on...

When other strings players ask me about it, I just say one of two things
A. It went on strike, or
B. It has an eating disorder

I just received mine today. There isn't much to the package. Overall it looks like it's done well but the rings to hold the strings could've been done a little better. I will do some smoothing using a Dremel before the install to clean it up.

First impressions: I like it. The bass sounds richer. No, I don't think it got brighter. I don't think it's got all that much louder esp on the G and D - just that the strings are allowed to ring out so it's a little punchier. My E and A vibrate alot more freely now so they might be a little louder. Feelwise, I wouldn't say it's less tension than the MPM TP I had on before, but it certainly has a different springiness to it. Arco seems a little easier.

During the install, I whipped out the Dremel knock off that I have and rounded the edges for the string holes a little bit. There was a small burr or two and removed that as well.

As for the buffer, I just didn't think it mattered that much so I did my own design using the strips that are supposed to be for zigzags.

Now I'm not sure how much the new cable TP affected my sound. On the MPM TP I had felt washers for all my strings (I felt my bass was bright so I wanted to dampen) and a big rubber one on the E. I did not install any of those washers on the Marvin TP... maybe those washers affected my sound more. I don't know. All I know now is that my E and A ring a little bigger... the E is more lively and that I actually got just a touch more growl from those two strings.

One more thing: I think this TP changes the whole ballgame with mixing strings from various sets. I would think the cables would allow each string to breathe more individually, so maybe it might be more effective when mixing. And oh yeah, the strings feel a ton more consistent going up the registers. Stuff in thumb position on the E & A sound alot better and less nasal.

I did record the bass, pizz only, before the install. I'll wait a week and record again once things have settled in.

One tip I found: If the string holders are rattling together, just yank up on the string and twist it til the rings no longer hit eachother.

More observations after a few days.... ok maybe I was wrong. I think the bass is slightly louder. The sound difference won't be that drastic. I think it's settling it. Like I said before, I dont' think there's a drop in string tension compared to the MPM TPs - which makes sense since both have staggered string holes. Tthe string just vibrates differently - and you definitely feel it like crazy under your fingers.

Overall, I think for my bass it was just a slight gain on attack, volume, and a different string feel.

What is your experience - do you really need the self adhesive tailpiece buffer?

What difference do you hear in the sound once you apply that piece of felt? :confused:

What is your experience - do you really need the self adhesive tailpiece buffer?

What difference do you hear in the sound once you apply that piece of felt? :confused:

I don't think its that much of a difference, its more designed to prevent the cables and harnesses from hitting against each other. It doesnt change the mass that much and and that is the main concept of the tailpiece, reduce mass to increase vibrations.

What is your experience - do you really need the self adhesive tailpiece buffer?

What difference do you hear in the sound once you apply that piece of felt? :confused:

The primary purpose of the cable tailpiece is to eliminate the impact of the tailpiece. The buffer eliminates sympathetic vibrations. The result is fewer wolf tones and more balanced sound across pitches. Other components of the design reduce these vibrations as well but the buffer eliminates what is left.

Though you may not hear direct sound with the buffer removed, the sound of the vibrations north of the bridge will be balanced better across the range of the instrument.

I appreciate the input from this thread as I have adjusted the tailpiece build and design based on this input. For example, the reintroduction of the zig-zag buffer and changes to debur and improve the rings.

Sincerely,

Kevin Marvin

I appreciate the input from this thread as I have adjusted the tailpiece build and design based on this input. For example, the reintroduction of the zig-zag buffer and changes to debur and improve the rings.

Sincerely,

Kevin Marvin

Dear Mr. Marvin,

Thank you for your very exciting product, and thank you for using the feedback from this forum.

Have you thought, however, about the impact that you will have in many homes: lots of discarded tailpieces lying around! What to do with these pieces of art, sometimes even heirlooms??

Sure, there is enough ebony now available for many, many new nuts and saddles, but you only need so many, and then there is still tailpiece left...

ok, here is another suggestion for the old wooden soundthieves:
Saladspoons. Yes. Let there be saladspoons ! (picture to follow)

What are you doing with your old tailpiece??

i've really adapted to this new tailpiece and really dig the changes. the increased ease in displacing the strings (not lower tension) allows me to use a stark E and to raise the action a bit. It feels like a fine tune adjustment for pizz but then you get used to it and realize it is both a fine tune and a global difference. The bass resonates better which allows you to keep track of the tolerances better which means you can get the same depth of sound without pulling as hard. a change you can feel and hear and both for the better. bravo K.

"The most notable change is increased brightness tonally and a new wolf tone on the open A string (that seems to have moved from the Ab WT the bass had previously). I tamed the new wt with a towel between the TP and the top of the bass. I'll probably switch back to my standard TP as I think I prefer the darker sound."

Since I wrote this a few weeks ago in another thread, I decided to try something else to see if the wolf tones could be tamed. I exchanged a heavier steel endpin for the short wood "filler" pin that was in the socket (I use the Laborie pin). The open A WT is tamed quite a bit more with the heavy pin. I still have a serious WT on the high A on the A string.

"The most notable change is increased brightness tonally and a new wolf tone on the open A string (that seems to have moved from the Ab WT the bass had previously). I tamed the new wt with a towel between the TP and the top of the bass. I'll probably switch back to my standard TP as I think I prefer the darker sound."

Since I wrote this a few weeks ago in another thread, I decided to try something else to see if the wolf tones could be tamed. I exchanged a heavier steel endpin for the short wood "filler" pin that was in the socket (I use the Laborie pin). The open A WT is tamed quite a bit more with the heavy pin. I still have a serious WT on the high A on the A string.

I have that wolftone too, it seems to be pretty common on all basses with carved tops(everything but lamys). My bass has a lot of weird resonance due to its young age, but the tailpiece did a lot to calm, and in some situations resolve the wolftone issues.

Thoughtful post, Eric, about the steel endpin. I switched back from my carbon fiber rod to a steel endpin a couple of months ago.

Also cobbed my bow quiver onto the thing at some point, I'm not exactly sure when. All to say that both the steel endpin and the quiver helped, somehow; the sound is still clear but a little more "focused."

Interestingly, doing some of the things I thought twice about doing when using wood tailpieces (attaching quivers, steel endpins, etc.) actually seem to mellow the Marvin TP a bit, without eliminating the ease of play and even response.

Interestingly, doing some of the things I thought twice about doing when using wood tailpieces (attaching quivers, steel endpins, etc.) actually seem to mellow the Marvin TP a bit, without eliminating the ease of play and even response.

I actually leaned the tailpiece into a coffee table while playing to damp it, and that seemed to help too. Maybe these are all indications of the need for a heavier tailpiece, at least on my bass.

has anyone used a marvin tailpiece with oliv strings? i can't get the strings to fit through the holes on the tailpiece. i must be missing something...

I haven't; I would ask Kevin Marvin, by phone or email. He was quite responsive to all queries I made.

Hi guys
I am considering one of these for my Hybrid La Scala. It is strung with a spiro stark E and mittel A and belcantos on D and G.
The Pizz sound is really good now. However the Bowed Stark while quite loud is more string sound than Bass. I was hoping that the change of tailpiece would allow the bass to vibrate more. At the moment I am doing more bowing than Pizz. The Bow response is as important to me as the Pizz. I have read some conflicting reports re the bowing response. Any opinions.

I believe I'll be ordering one as well. My bass has been slightly hard to play as of late...I hope this helps the elasticity of the strings on mine.

Pros: Arco was MUCH more responsive - strings were more supple. Looks cool.

Cons: A bit too bright for my taste on my bass (Christopher Hybrid fiver). Also, putting thick plain guts on the loops was impossible for me. I broke one string twice. I also couldn't get the quiver to stop swinging back and forth. Mounting the pickup jack on the quiver was not cool, with the wire just sort of dangling around. Besides - after mounting all that crap on the Tailpiece, I think I was kind of defeating much of its intended purpose.

It ended up causing more problems for me than not, and I've since removed it.

Anyone else experience a wolf-tone pitch change with the Marvin?

Yes ,oddly and thankfully, mine inched up from a G to an A flat

yes, I used to have a wolf on my Bb on the D string, now it seems to be a little lower..

Also, for whatever reasons, during the summer my bass sounded brighter after I put the Marvin on, in a good way. In the cold weather it's REALLY bright, not in a good way. If the sound changes back to what it was, I might try a darker set of strings like Dominants or Evahs next winter.