Agreed. Try a limiter.

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Chris

I'm looking to buy a compressor pretty soon and was wondering what you guys rate/hate. I don't mind weather its a stomp box or rack mounted, but I don't want to spend much more than £80 (I think thats about $120 U.S.).

I'm going to use it with my overdrive pedal as a volume kind of thing. Swicthing between clear and driven is to much of a leap, so the idea is, leave the overdrive on and switch the compressor on and off. I can only think off a one player that does this, that being Bob Fairfoul of iDLEWiLD. Any sugestions of other ways the deal with this problem greatly recieved.

Cheers. Jim.

I hate compression of any kind! Period! IMO, compression sucks the life right out of track. I didn't spend years "learning" touch, tone, dynamics, pressure, blahblahblah to have some engineer sit back & tweak a knob to dial in "my" sound.
Sorry...all the Vets here know my posture on this subject-I hope I didn't let you guys down ;-)

Whats a limiter do then, who makes them and how much do they cost..??

Jim

Whats a limiter do then, who makes them and how much do they cost..??

Still open to suggestions of compressors though.

Jim

I don't totally agree with you, JimK and CS, although I'm much less experienced as you.

I've got a compression potentiometer on my amp, and it is very helpfull to me.

When I had my older bass, which was not very good to me, the compression helped me to have a punchy sound (in fact, I agree that it shadowed the horrible sound of my aria pro II, especially in slapping).

I was pretty sure that when I got my Stingray, I would never use this again. In fact, this bass is so powerful that a bit (2/10) of compression is cool to lower the sound when slapping.

I'm still convinced that I could play without. I would never buy one now, but it's on the amp, I can't do anything against that !!!

Notice that it's something due to my configuration, in fact I think it depends on the bass and on the amp you own (I would never use any compression of any kind on a Ampeg SVT - no use).

goofy, what are your bass and amps ?

Jere-when you say "...although I'm much less experienced as you", you're REALLY sayin'-
"...you guys are a couple of fossils". True?

I've told my stories in the past...suffice to say, I've been "had" by a couple of enginneers who swore by compression. My crisp 'popping' got flattened to a dull poof. It wasn't my session or $$$...the way I look at it is like this: I delivered the 'goods', they(engineer &/or songwriter)decided to alter it. Whatever.

BTW-looks like I gotta watch my step on the "BASSES" category, eh? "Big Brother" Jere is watchin'! http://talkbass.com/ubb/smile.gif

Fossils...
Hi JimK ; would never have thought you're fossil man (you're 42 or something, the state 'fossil' begins only with the age 45 http://talkbass.com/ubb/wink.gif ) !!! But I've been playing since 3 years only, and you've been playing since 20 years or more, right ?

Compression...
I begin to know a bit about you, and I know what you think about FX in general ; and since I got my new bass, I'm step by step getting the same philosophy : good bass => good sound => no need for FX. I didn't touch my wah since 2 weeks...

Big Brother...
This job had to be done, don't you agree ? and I'm sooooo proud to have this 'moderator' written under my name. Newbies will think I'm a bass hero http://talkbass.com/ubb/cool.gif.

I would strongly disagree with such strong opinions being offered as advice without any reference to what style of music you play and without any reguards to your technique, I am primarily a jazz player and I do not use any compression in this situation for exactly the reason that is stated in previous submissions. I also sub in many other styles of music and I have found that for rock and funk, compression (3/1-4/1) actually serves to make my bass come out in the mix and gives a very defined "chest level" attack to my sound that works very well with the bass drum. In the studio I find compression to be more of a crutch but due to the precision sound that is available in a modern recording studio it has become almost necessary to the point many studion musicians bring thier own compressor (the only "big league" studio guy who does not like to use it that I am aware of is Lee Sklar).
I guess the only point that I am trying to make with this is that there is no universal answers on isssues like this and what works for one person may completely offend someone else as a more experienced players we can offer advice based on experiences but I think that it is always important to offer the opposing viewpoint.

------------------
-Tim

Tim, where do we start.

This board is about peoples opinions. A bloke wanted to buy a compressor. Jimk said he hates all pedals, thats his opinion. I said try a limiter cos mines always on. Jere got involved and called us fossils. We have opposing views, fine, thats what I like about this board. Your post comes across as negative and critical of all who came before. The key point is comes across. Look at some of the mega posts mostly by Jere.
On the Funk and slap bass thread people were giving opinions on what to try after Jere had ordered a Stingray and some after he bought it. Do you want to criticise them?
This board once again is about opinions on bass stuff. Do you want to come across as critical and negative? I cut people an amount of slack because I am treated the same way and beleive me if saying stupid things was an olympic sport I'd get gold.
I once posted the wrong switch setting for a bass and was corrected in a way that was not offensive. I was wrong. So tell me where am I going wrong by recommending a limiter to someone intending to buy a compressor. Especially bearing in mind the criticsm re dynamic sucking.
So a more positive approach would be to ask what style of music was played, and the opinion that you dont like compressors for jazz. Now I am arguing with you because I want this board to remain the interesting resource that it is with you as a continuing member.I eagerly await your reply.

Jere I have not been insulting or used foul language moderate away and congratulations.

Ah the point a limiter is like a compressor, how I dont know ,but it tends to even the sound out without changing dynamics much . I have a boss limiter that has been superceded by the LM3 limiter/exciter.
Boss stuff is always cost effective but has a buffered bypass which lets some of the tone through. True bypass is found on the boutique stuff which is more expensive. Use your ears. Lets the debate rage on and I want to see a clean fight...........


------------------
Chris

To prove the point about stupid is... the buffered bypass lets some of the effect through not tone. Although.....

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Chris

Well...what Tim's sayin' makes sense; we're all different with different needs-EVERYBODY should, by now, know my spiel on compression. Everytime I see "Compression" in a thread, I react; the "vets" here EXPECT that reaction from me...it's almost kind of a standing joke.
For me, the type of music I'm playing is irrelevant as to whether I "need" some compression; if my hands can't pull it off, then I need to shed & find a way(somehow). That's just me, though...whatever works for you is fine, too!
Tim-so you like Anthony Jackson & John Patitucci? I almost bought IMPRINT today(JP's newest)...instead I ordered TRIO IN TOKYO(Michel Petrucciani, Anthony Jackson, & Steve Gadd)-ever hear that one?

Ok maybe I was a little harsh. The bloke wants to buy a compressor and who cares what he uses it for thats his decision.

This board constantly throws up different views and opinions, lets keep em coming. I dont want people to not post their opinion for fear of critiscm.

There was a time when electiric basses were fretted and you couldn't take the frets off.

http://talkbass.com/ubb/smile.gif



------------------
Chris

I'll vouch for Jim. He has a long and distinguished history of going high and to the right on this topic. His response was everything I hoped it would be.

By the way, does anyone remember what setting Jaco used on "Portrait of Tracy?" http://talkbass.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Ladies and gentlemen boys and girls children of all ages, I proudly present the tag team champions of the world… The Road Dog JimK and B.A. Bruce Lindfield. !!!!!!!!!!!!! Ding Ding.

Jim
I quote ‘ I hate compression of any kind, period.” Looking on your profile you have a 64 bassman. What do valves do to the sound? I’ll buy the bassman from you cos I like compression http://talkbass.com/ubb/smile.giflooking forward to your reply. Now for your partner.

Bruce
Norman Watt Roy’s bass on Rhythm stick sounds compressed to me. http://talkbass.com/ubb/smile.gif
For those of you emotionally scarred by insensitive engineers and producers I’ll start a thread.off topic. I’m good to you. Oh and its no holds barred. http://talkbass.com/ubb/smile.gif

Big goofy Sorry I got sidetracked  If you hav’nt been put off, you might still want to buy a compressor .

You could look at the Visual Sound Route 66. It has a TS808 overdrive on one side and a compressor on the other. There is a review in the SRV issue of TGM and they are about a hundred quid.. Tubescreamers and clones suffer from lack of bass, this one has a bass boost switch. It has true bypass and you could use one pedal for OD and compression. Also Boss does the CS3 and LM3 under 80 quid and Dod do the milk box. I have not tried the Dod, its about 50 quid. I have not tried the Route 66 yet.

RockinJC succinctly said, do you want to be my tag team partner?

Can’t wait for round 3. And that’s the bottom line. http://talkbass.com/ubb/smile.gif
Stonecold CS




------------------
Chris

I'm with Jim on compression - it's what engineers who don't like bass do to you as revenge. To me it's just covering up deficiencies in tone or technique. Most of them just add noise into the signal chain anyway.

I think that a limiter would be worse from my point of view - but then that's because I like dynamics in music. I think that this is just as important as say, rhythm, melody etc. and is an "effect" you can use to add interest. Taking this away is "limiting" yourself in terms of what you can do.

I use compression and like it, but as an effect it is one that should not really be heard. I use mine after a tube preamp, setting the preamp so that when I dig in to the strings I get a little bit of distortion , but close to the same level. This amounts to a more trebly sound when I want it. I just have my compressor set so that when I push my preamp, the levels don’t go through the roof. Rane has one (DC-24) that allows highs and lows to be processed independent from each other. This is what I use and nothing else except for a volume pedal and a tuner.

Almost any CD you can buy has compression in one form or another. Either the Amps or the tapes are saturating or in post production they do multi band compression. Its all around you. If you listen to FM radio, you are hearing compression. Ears and the mind naturally do some compression. See Joe Meek site…but beware of too much of a good thing!

I have been more into subtle lately than over the top, so I am going to say that you may not get the mileage that you are looking for if you want a compressor to CHANGE your sound. I think that the fingers are the best tool for this end. Keep um on the strings and away from the knobs.

Good luck

Hello, me again the guy who started all this trouble.

Right I still have had no posts on the info I actually wanted, anyone know of any compressor stomp boxes, make, price, etc...??

However since people have started a big uproar about why people use effects and so on I'd like to have my stab.

Why does it matter..? If you want to use effects use them. Use them how you want, turn it all up to ten, or spend hours finding that sound your looking for.

This is a large community (world wide supposedly) and I think people are becoming really prejudice about other peoples playing styles. I can respect all you jazz players out there, who play some blinding stuff, but good rock bassist are equally talented. Two extremes I know but what I'm trying to say is everyone just chill. If you have some information someone is looking for or a suggestion of something they might like to try post it, but don't start all this "I can't see why people need to use effects". Just because someone has a couple of stomp boxes doesn't mean they're any less of a player (and switching them on and off at the right time is quite a skill anyway).

Can't everyone just get along, at the end of the day we've all got 4 strings (not forgeting all you 5 and 6 stringers but you know what I mean). If we can't I have a suggestion for the re-naming of this board to slag_off_other_styles_of_bass.com

Jim

Apologies, there is some valid info I after there, took some finding though. Cheers for the suggestions of the CS3 and LM3 I shall be trying them out in my local music store this weekend.

Big goofy I apologise for taking part in the hijacking of your thread. I did get short with Tim and will apologise if he re appears. However I like bantering with JimK Bruce Jere etc and mean no harm. In humour we sometimes cross the line. If I do I apologise. Happy hunting on the compressors.

------------------
Chris

Chris-LMAO! Actually, that Bassman hasn't been used in a gig environment since about '78...I had some old Yoda-type repair it about 6 years ago & used it as my practice amp-too many hot-rodded basses & slapping caused one(or more)of the resistors to open. It's currently in my "relics'" pile.
Anyway, whatever those valves do, it doesn't "sound"/feel like COMPRESSION to my ears. I'm talking about the rackmounted/stomp box variety that's used in studios. There was a time in a distant galaxy where I got studio-type gigs...most of the time, I was "OK" with the recording enginner(s); some guys, though, were rich kids whose daddy bought them a bunch of equipment. Or I was dealing with a lead singer/non-musician type who read that compression can "phatten" up a bass track. I'm like this- if I'm hitting the string, I want to hear/feel it respond accordingly...immediately, if not sooner. If I'm hitting it & hearing it being "compressed", then I'm gonna hit it harder & harder & HARDER! I lose all nuance to whatever I have when I gotta bash.
If Jim was talking about something other that rackmounted/stomp box variety compressors, then I'm sorry.
...I'll now tag Bruce-ROUND II, brah!

Jim lol got to go my pc is making some strange sounds,probably coulnt take all these wrestling terms without getting excited. See ya Friday thats when I'm allowed out next http://talkbass.com/ubb/smile.gif

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Chris

BGBP,

I hate to burst your bubble but if you were looking to find the voice of experience without all the crabby banter, I would stay clear of the internet. I think that there is something about its basic design that allows BS travel better than actual content. So a lot of threads get cluttered up with crap…big deal. Brush up on your speed reading and use your page down key liberaly…I do!

You picked a hot topic though so if you want to glean a few decent facts, you will have to wade through a lot of war stories and strong feelings. Oh no I think just by typing this I’m part of the problem. OK here’s some real stuff.

I used the boss pedal for a wile, the blue one. Runs forever on a battery but is kind of overbearing on anything but a low setting. I’m sure you can find a good used one for cheep and resell it for close to the same if you want to unload it. How bout borrowing a compressor or two from somebody? Then you can fiddle with it and decide for your self what you like.

Oh by the way, don’t blame us for having strong feelings about these things. You should try the manufactures. They all have differing philosophies about what is appropriate in compression and why all other methods of compression suck except theirs.

If I were you I would go to these sites. All have ideas about what kind of circuit and controls make the difference between good and evil.

DBX: - invented profiting from compression http://www.dbxpro.com/compression.htm http://www.dbxpro.com/compress101.htm

JoeMeek: - my personal bias of the week! http://www.joemeek.com/whyitsdifferent.html http://www.joemeek.com/joemeekvc3new.html

Rane: - I use these! (DC-24) http://www.rane.com/library.htm#tech http://www.rane.com/pdf/note141.pdf

Also try: http://www.fullcompass.com/lit/s_compressors.html


[This message has been edited by Rockinjc (edited February 07, 2000).]

I think it's right that this type of board is about opinions and you have to realise that **opinions** are all you are going to get.

If a (young/new) bass player came up to me after a gig and asked me for advice - I would say "stay away from effects pedals as far as possible and especially avoid compressors or anything that stops you hearing what you are actually playing"
This is the devil's route and leads to no practice, no technique and impressing your friends with the "cool" sounds you can make http://talkbass.com/ubb/wink.gif

Seriously though, RockinJC is probably right, that if you want facts - go to the manufacturers sites, sensible advice - read Bass Player magazine.

We contribute to this board for fun! We have no contract to provide reliable advice "on demand", just a ragbag of prejudices and opinions which sum up to a life. http://talkbass.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

By the way the Trace Elliot dual compressor is supposed to be good, but I actually bought one in the dim and distant past and found it was terrible - noisy and had unpredictable consequences depending on the settings you used - but it's all subjective I suppose.

PS - I suppose switching effects pedals on and off may be seen as a "skill" for some rock musicians (maybe their only one?) but it sure ain't playing music!

[This message has been edited by Bruce Lindfield (edited February 08, 2000).]

Mr. Bruce you cheek master, a skill for some rock musicians indeed...!!

Cheers for the sites Rockinjc.

Now please will everyone leave me and my pedals alone. The one thing I find them really useful for is, if at band practice the room becomes crowded with hangers on, girlfriends etc.., turn em up to ten and leave em feeding back for five mins, that soon shifts the buggers http://talkbass.com/ubb/smile.gif

Goofy

BGBP,

Don’t let another Brit tell you anything about what is appropriate in American music forms whatsoever. Those guys (except Chris of course) have about as much business interpreting Rock, Jazz, or Latin music as they do advising folks with any aspect of the culinary world. But if its knowledge of Celtic music or beer you are in the right ballpark, but on the wrong discussion board.

JC

God bless America!

So I presume that if Nils Henning Orsted-Pederson came by and offered you some free double-bass lessons you would tell him where to go? What do Europeans know about Jazz?

Also how come most of the great Jazz players/innovators have asserted in the past that they are really Africans rather than Americans? And what do Amercians know about "Latin" music - apart from the term having originated in Italy, the music is played by people with Spanish, Portugese and African roots! As to Rock - this is mostly based on blues (although some of the innovators have been from the UK - Led Zep, Cream, even Hendrix had to come to London to make it!)which again was a music created by Black Africans. So where is all this American music?

This only leaves C&W and so I agree - don't ask any of us in the UK about Country - we all hate it! http://talkbass.com/ubb/wink.gif

YEEEE-HAWWWW! Good one, Bruce!
BTW-Don't forget about Dave Holland!

...also-what gives with you posting a "Latin Bass" question over at jazzcorner.com? We're not capable here!?

Sorry Jim - I was just testing if I could post really - after getting the URL from your post on this board, I had to make three or four attempts before my details were accepted.

This was also a day that I couldn't get into TalkBass at all and was suffering withdrawl symptoms!

I still managed to post in the wrong area! The conversation about "quiet policies" in clubs was interesting - I have printed this out and will give a copy to the person who runs our local Jazz Club next time I'm there.

Do you think we now win the award for most "off topic" posts on this board? From Compression, to Racism to Alternative Discussion Boards in 3 easy steps. http://talkbass.com/ubb/wink.gif

Last night I was checking my e-mail and eating a Madras (which I made) and snuck a look at the board. I couldn’t keep away.

Rockinjc .

I thought that the British had the monopoly on Xenophobia. I bow to your superior wisdom on music as you come from the land of the New Kids on the Block, Billy Ray Sirrus, and Marylin Manson. I had an American beer once.

Bruce

I agree with everything you said (now there’s a first) but one thing puzzles me, what’s a double bass and can you use a compressor on it?. I think that because someone commented about going off at tangents we got worse, perverse lot that we are. Talking of which ……

Jimk

I like still compressors.


Before anyone gets upset look up deadpan.

Yes if Nils Henning Orsted-Pederson wanted to stop by to find out the appropriate settings for his compressor to get that New Kids' bass sound, you bet I would help him out for nothing. But I would still keep him the heck away from the kitchen. http://talkbass.com/ubb/smile.gif

jc

What do people think about the Presonus Blue Max Compressor? I have heard good things about it, but have never heard it? I have also heard great things about the RNC compressor.

------------------
..That's my $.02 worth
Bryan
bryan@fenstermacher.net

The Presonus BlueMax is decent- I used this once, but never could get into the preset thing. For some I could see them being advantageous, but ultimately we all MUST play bass because we're control freaks, no? http://www.talkbass.com/ubb/smile.gif I prefer the RNC- this is a really clean 1/3 rack space, wall-wart sportin unit that really delivers. The "R-eally N-ice C-ompressor gives you a 'super' setting that'll really eliminate any chance for dynamic range (!), if that's what you dig, but most of all, it sounds good in many applications, including low-end intensive sounds like kick drum, floor tom, bass. For about $199 US it's a real star.

I must admit to being surprised- there's a pretty heavy consensus here sounding apprehensive or downright distrustful about compression. Live is a different ball game, but in the studio, the average rock bassist should feel a warm glow come over their self-confidence walking into a studio with a nice ol' LA-2A or Pultec. Dynamics are nice, but from the engineers point of view, the art of seating the kick drum and bass guitar is a subtle craft, and in my experience (hopefully always growing, but I mixed my 1000th song this week!),9 out of 10 bassists NEED compression to really deliver the sound they are after. Slapaholics can't be fooled- the compressor limiter can be your best friend. Again, rock music is what I do most- IMHO a good (tube) compressor goes a long way.

En guarde,



------------------
- Andy Z.

Bruce, I understand that the majority of C&W sales are made in the UK. http://www.talkbass.com/ubb/tongue.gif I just like Dolly's twin peaks http://www.talkbass.com/ubb/smile.gif .
BTW. What are these two guys doin' talkin about compressors in this thread? They lost or somethin'?

------------------
Paul

I sometimes use my ibanez cp-9 compressor/limitor on my bass rig. It adds a little compression and is also a limiter. Gives a good punch and sustain.

Actually sounds better on my bass rig than it does on my guitar...

Not to get off topic or anything, but you should check out the EBS MultiComp pedal. It's a very transparent and musical compressor. It has three different settings, Tube Simulator, multi band and solid state, and all three are very usable. It can be had for around $120 us.I love you all and value all of your opinions. http://www.talkbass.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif No matter how opinionated!

Now if you really want to hear a professional rip compression go here (http://www.stereophile.com/showarchives.cgi?177). It is a editorial in Stereophile on the overuse of compression by the record industry.

Actually, this article was supplemented by another one that isn't on the website yet. It was in the March edition I think. The editorial tested the Red Hot Chili Peppers cd "Californication" and found a dynamic range of 4 dB ! If that isn't over compressing a record I don't know what is. At that point either you're playing a note or you're not - there is no room for dynamic expression.

Apparently everyone wants a "loud" record on the air. So they compress the (insert four letter word that won't print here) out of it - so that everything is uniformly loud. The problems with that are:

1) after a while it all sounds the same
2) radio stations compress everything anyway (so they get picked up better)
3) it encourages one emotion music - you can't get quiet and you can't get loud.

By the way John Atkinson is a Brit. http://www.talkbass.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Skip (edited March 30, 2000).]

Classic Thread, BTTT:D

Whoa! I saw this thread and thought I might learn something about compression. Silly me. I learned a bit, but not about compression, as such.

Rockinjc - your post reminded me of a line from Monty Python: "He used...(gulp) sarcasm..." I guess it worked, you really seem to have stung a couple of guys.

Johno - Tell me where to get an EBS Multicomp for $120 U.S. I will order it immediately. TIA

big_goofy_bass_player - As you have noticed, there are some strongly opinionated folks here who like to state their opinions as fact, and look down on those who don't agree. I remember recently a thread where a number of us took quite a bashing because we admitted we didn't care for a g string that sounded twangier than the other strings on our basses. I think this was from one of the compression/pedal haters, but I'm not 100% sure. I guess some of our members have reached tonal nirvana, and those of us who haven't just don't measure up in their eyes.

I've been telling my bassist for months now that unless he plans on developing the control of a seasoned studio bassist in the near future he should really get a compressor, if even for the slightest effect. We're a funk/rap/hip-hop band and i feel that in order to get a genuine sound we, as the rhythm section, need to sacrifice a little dynamics in order to make our rappers lyrics stand out. I come here because my bassist listens to no one but his fellow TBers, so I hope you guys could give me your two cents (but only if you agree with me) :)

This thread is 8 years old, man.

Was Bongo even born when this one went to sleep? :D

Wow. How far did the digging go to find this gem? I proudly second the nomination of "Zombie Thread", but of the year.

TexCo for NecroPoster of the year!

Agreed, this is one of the best archaeological digs I've seen in a while, although I'm still amused by the one EBS endorser who dug up an 8-year-old thread dissing EBS pedals just to defend them, as well as the one more recent guy who dug up several ancient EBS threads just to diss them!

To TexCo, sorry about all the hoopla, we've got our own weird little culture here. You can set your man straight now though- it really is true that we must all learn to do what's best for the mix, and often that means changing our ways, learning something new, or compromising. I won't say compression is what he needs because I haven't heard him and I haven't heard your mix; but it's absolutely true that rap/hip-hop bass is usually not very dynamic, it's all about keeping a steady groove. If he needs compression to keep it rock steady to support the mix, then he needs it- end of story. At least until he develops those pro chops.

I've been telling my bassist for months now that unless he plans on developing the control of a seasoned studio bassist in the near future he should really get a compressor, if even for the slightest effect. We're a funk/rap/hip-hop band and i feel that in order to get a genuine sound we, as the rhythm section, need to sacrifice a little dynamics in order to make our rappers lyrics stand out. I come here because my bassist listens to no one but his fellow TBers, so I hope you guys could give me your two cents (but only if you agree with me) :)

Love the new avatar, Cyrus!

i use a chandler germanium compressor on my bass, after the avalon u5. it sounds superb and is capable of everything from very unnoticeable "levelling" to all out grunge and squash.