Ok... I have been playing with the same guitarist for about 3 years now. Our project finally got a solid drummer who seems to be in it for the long haul. The type of music we play is pretty far out there funky time signatures, non traditional arangememts. Very cerebral on a TOOL, Rush, Mastodon, Dream Theater type of vien. We have been teaching the drummer the 8 songs we have written thus far.

Last night we are working on a song and the drummer comes up with a rythem in 7/8 time that to me is a count off. But him and the guitarist think its right on time. The problem is sounds wrong to me. I figgured we a hearing the same riff two different ways. So I attempt to explain exactally what it is that I'm hearing, and the guitarist gets all pissy. Saying that he dosent want to do these crazy arangements anymore, and if I cant compromise, then we shouldnt be making music anymore.

But wait there is more...

I call him to ask him *** was going on, bassically, he wants to have more say so in the arangememts. Our writing style up to this point has been he will come up with a riff or two, then I'll arange them to make them a song. Up until now this formula has been magical. And here is the problem. His arangements are not very good. They are borring and not well thought out IMO.

So now what do I do? I know if I let him have a a song or two, I'm not gonna like it, then I'm gonna tell him, and he's gonna get his panties all in a bunch again... and he'll probally leave.

Someone please tell me what the hell I should do? Am I tripping? Is it my ego, or his? ***!!???!?!?!?!!

in times likes these, we remember to not act like pink floyd!

I would say if he wants to do something totally different from you.. than i guess you shouldnt be playing together anyway... I would just try explaining it to him more, and if he freaks out.. then i guess you should just find people who have more similar musical interests with you?

What, what happened to Pink Floyd??!?!?!?!??!?!?!!

I dont know, it seems like there are outside influences going on. Something aint right... Why would everything be great up until right now?

Is there an evil chick involved? :D


Seems odd that this would come out of nowhere. Is he intimidated by the drummer? Maybe he feels weird about sharing the music you guys have written?

Far out there, but maybe him and the drummer are talking while you're not around. I had a band that 1/2 the members got up and left one day before practice to go "venture to other things".

They were apparently talking about it when me and the other 1/2 of the band wasn't there for a few weeks.

People can be dirt.

Is there an evil chick involved? :D



+1000000000:hyper::hyper:

Honestly, it just sounds like they dont want to do the stuff that you want to do anymore. maybe you are a little too controlling and they ar sick of it.

Yeah, the magic 8-ball says he has somebody talking in his ear while you're not around, and he's not man enough to talk with you about it face to face. Very common in bands.

I'd say take his face-to-face comments at exactly face value and negotiate with him on those terms. If he wants more involvement in the arrangement, give him that involvement. It's not for you to say whether his arrangements suck, it's for the audience to say. If you think it's about you, then either (a) you need to set a boundary and say "I am the arranger for this band, end of story"; or (b) you're the one with the ego issue. Seriously though, and I'm not saying that to be a jerk, that's just how I see it.

If you give him what he asks for face-to-face and he still acts like a pod person, then either ask him directly what's up with that, or just wait for the mysterious personal problem to works itself out, or quit the band.

That's always a tricky situation my friend. I would suggest that if he really wants to continue arranging songs, then ask him to bring complete ideas to the table. If his arrangements aren't up to what YOU think might par, then offer suggestions as to what could be changed for the better of the song.

Obviously with music being subjective, everyone will always have their input to what they think is better. One of the best things I've learned about arranging songs and changing parts is recording whatever idea you have in mind to be able to listen to it back and compare it to the already written version. Most songs will "tell" you what needs to be where if you listen to them and study them. Also, if at all possible, when you offer suggestions be sure to let him know that it's just creative criticism. Some people can't get over that, I myself have some trouble with it now and again.

Another thing...(sorry :( )... songs aren't really ever "complete" until they're recorded and mastered(IMO). I think most songs are like babies, they will grow and become more powerful as you put more and more time and thought into them. I'm not saying you need to spend a year writing a song (even though SOMETIMES it is required), it's just always nice to jam them out and try new things until the parts are solidified. Of course, these are all song writing opinions, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

Best of luck!

Is there an evil chick involved? :D


Ya know... my gut tells me thats what the problem is... All band related issues always stem from her... but I dont want to point the finger at her.

Far out there, but maybe him and the drummer are talking while you're not around.

Now thats odd, cause after that rehearsal me and the drummer sat outside and talked, and he was a confused as I was. Me and him are on the same page, musically. And I'm gonna give him a song that he can say is his. Not to mention any input he chooses to give (which I never had to give him that, he has always had it, he never choosed to use it) on our material. However, I realy feel like there is something else that he's not telling me. I'll keep you guys posted as this thing plays out.

This is just my opinion and I mean nothing by it, but he could have been stewing for a long time and its just now coming to a head (with or without outside influencing). Maybe he found another band or someone is whispering in his ear that he is too good to be told what to do. I would sit him down and ask him what is really going on.

However I know that myself...I write alot of music and generally think I am good at piecing things together when need be, but I wouldnt want someone else always telling me what "is right and what isnt". And, again no offense, if it was so magical then you would be touring right now, maybe he "let you have the reigns long enough" and he wants a shot at it?

And, again no offense, if it was so magical then you would be touring right now, maybe he "let you have the reigns long enough" and he wants a shot at it?

Me and the guitarist have been working together for a while (writing material for a little over a year) and we just got a drummer about 3 weeks ago... Ther is a serious shortage of musicians in Miami, Fl that dont play spanish/carribian music. So with alittle more time, I'm sure we would be touring... if fact, I was shooting to do a DIY tour this summer :bassist:

Just over a year...to write 8 songs? Are you sure he's not just bored introducing complexity for complexity's sake and only writing one song every month and a half?

... Why would everything be great up until right now?

My guess would be things weren't as great as you think they were, he just wasn't saying anything.

The theory that someone has his ear is a good one, it would explain why now. Either that or some sort of territorial/inadequacy issue with having a new person in the band.

My suggestion: Diplomacy. Let him arrange a few songs, what harm could it do? You don't have to commit to putting them in the band's set and they could turn out to be an amazing change of pace.

Edit: Speaking of inadequacy, it would seem that some people on this board feel they have the market on magic cornered. "Magic you say? Bah! My band is magical because we're on a 14 country tour and have written 32 billion songs in the last 2 minutes." Geez. Talk about unsolicited criticism!

just gotta say,, that it wouldn't take me too long at all to hit the door if i was in a 3 piece,, with a new drummer,, & there's a vibe in the room saying that all my stuff is golden,, & all of your stuff sucks,,, :eyebrow::rolleyes::mad:

it's ALL about people skills dude,, maybe you should get a clue,, cause it sounds like he just bought a vowel ( hey,, you asked ) :ninja:

Edit: Speaking of inadequacy, it would seem that some people on this board feel they have the market on magic cornered. "Magic you say? Bah! My band is magical because we're on a 14 country tour and have written 32 billion songs in the last 2 minutes." Geez. Talk about unsolicited criticism!

I certainly didnt mean to question their "magic" in my previous post...just trying to point out that the OP's situation could possibly be that HE thought it was magic and no one else did (meaning the guitarist) and now the guitarist wants to have a crack at creating. Maybe thats not the case at all. Only the guitarist knows why he is acting that way, but its safe to say that anyone thats been in a band before has encountered the "leader" who thinks everything HE does is great and thats it.

I certainly didnt mean to question their "magic" in my previous post....

I got you. It was sorta your post along with another led me to see the start of a trend that I felt I needed nip in the bud. This is a "help me with my guitarist problem thread" not a "critique a band I've never heard before 'cuz I don't like the way this guy talks thread." Hijacking is one thing, but being a jerk about it....

I got you. It was sorta your post along with another led me to see the start of a trend that I felt I needed nip in the bud. This is a "help me with my guitarist problem thread" not a "critique a band I've never heard before 'cuz I don't like the way this guy talks thread." Hijacking is one thing, but being a jerk about it....

The OP makes it sound like everything he has put together is golden while he doesnt like anything the guitarist will arrange. If he "lets" the guitarist put other stuff together he knows he wont like it...? The rest of us only pointed out the fact that perhaps that is a major issue considering the guitarist stated that he wants more input.

Well...........if you don't give him a chance AND you have already made up your mind that you won't like it, He has every right to be pissed. Put yourself in his position. Myself, I'd be headin' for the door. It's fun to pick on Guitards and all, but they are a very integral part of any band. If you don't think so, try to have a band without one.

I got you. It was sorta your post along with another led me to see the start of a trend that I felt I needed nip in the bud. This is a "help me with my guitarist problem thread" not a "critique a band I've never heard before 'cuz I don't like the way this guy talks thread." Hijacking is one thing, but being a jerk about it....

uh,, last time i looked,, people here have the right to say what they want to say, however they want to say it.

please, next time you feel that you have to " nip it in the bud " DON'T
:eyebrow::scowl::rollno:

( feel free to flame away,, or better yet,,, just let it pass ) :):):)

pink floyd sucks. so you shouldnt do anything they did ever. (except sell records)

pink floyd sucks. so you shouldnt do anything they did ever. (except sell records)

i pity your closed mindedness

just cuz you dont like a band doesnt mean they suck

And I'm gonna give him a song that he can say is his. Not to mention any input he chooses to give (which I never had to give him that, he has always had it, he never choosed to use it)

No offense man, but you sound like a song nazi. Seems like there wasn't a problem until someone else wanted to drive the bus for a while.

...the guitarist gets all pissy. Saying that he dosent want to do these crazy arangements anymore, and if I cant compromise, then we shouldnt be making music anymore.

he wants to have more say so in the arangememts. And here is the problem. His arangements are not very good. They are borring and not well thought out IMO.

I know if I let him have a a song or two, I'm not gonna like it, then I'm gonna tell him, and he's gonna get his panties all in a bunch again... and he'll probally leave.

Is it my ego... Yes, it is. If you "LET" him have a song or two? Please. And you already know, "I'm not gonna like it..."

With all due respect, you are an egotistical brat.

Here is another example of you deigning to grace the peasants with one of YOUR creations. Me and him are on the same page, musically. And I'm gonna give him a song that he can say is his. Whoa, all hail the gracious Caesar.

The git player stayed around about three years too long... I bet he's the only one that has ever gone that long with you, eh? Thought so. You run everybody off eventually and now he's finally had enough of your egotistical bs. Good luck in the future and you'll need it 'cause it will always be "them" and never you with the problem.

Sorry if this sounds harsh but you asked.

The name of the game is collaboration if your going to let others have input into your songs.
Otherwise, write your songs and let him write his. And when playing his, play them to the very best of your ability even if you think they're boring.

If you two feel there's a clash in writing styles then it's best you part now so you can find other players who share your taste.

When I write I'm always interested in what others say and am open to trying stuff. But as prime writer I always reserve the right to overrule decisions. I, in return, let others overrule my decisions about their songs.

A bonus is I can always use my rejected "pearls of greatness" as a kernel to begin another song.

You have to be able to compromise to some degree in bands. If it's more than you can handle then pick up and go - take the drummer with you if you two are of the same ilk. It's not worth wasting a bunch of time and energy on drama.

PS> Pink Floyd didn't suck until Waters started making all of the calls.

how bout you make writing the song a group effort instead of having predefined roles? Take everyones opinion into account for everything and do what suits the song best in the end. Or fiddle with each others ideas.

Just over a year...to write 8 songs? Are you sure he's not just bored introducing complexity for complexity's sake and only writing one song every month and a half?

Well to be fair, I will explain the timeline. I have been working with him for about 2 years. We met looking for a guitarist in a cover band. Me and him started screwing around with originals here and there back then. We started getting serious a few months ago (say around Augest September) of writing nothing but original material. Considering we both have full time jobs, I dont think it has taken that long writing what it is that we do taking into account the type of stuff that we do.

As far as allowing him into the creative process, I have always been open about him coming in with whatever he wants. He usually brings in the riffs. He would suggest one way to orginize it, I would offer alternate suggestions. Then I'll ask which one he likes better. He usually ends up picking my arrangment. We have never had a problem with the way things have gone untill tuesday.

On Tuesday, we had a song that we arranged and we showed it to the drummer. We had a discrepency over the drum part, because he heard the riff one way, and I heard it another. But the aggreed arangment was baised on how I heard it and not how he heard it. So my suggestion was, lets record the riff the way I hear it, and the way he hears it and sit back and listen to it objectively. He took that as I'm not willing to comprimize... but I am. I just believe when you feel something you should fight for it. And he should too. And if I'm wrong, and his way is better then we should listen without playing and analize what it is we are listening to. That way we can aggree that his way is better, or mine, or scrap the arangment and start fresh (which is possibly the course of action we will take)

And perhaps you are right, I should not have my mind made up about what he could arrange. However what he has brought to the table in the past has not been very good. In fact, he said to me on several of the songs that we have done that he's happy that I arranged this song the way it is because its better than his original idea.

Ok. We had "The Talk" and its finally over. He was upset because he thought I wanted to change the riff... It was a misunderstanding, and it is all said and done. Now that this is water under the bridge, I'm just glad it wassnt the girlfriend thing... Thats much harder to resolve than an In band issue.

Thanks for all the input guys, everyone who responded (even the flamers) helped me greatly

:bassist::bassist::bassist: