I am curious to find out if there is anyone else who feels the way I do about the luthier's section of talk bass. Smack me upside the head if you like, but it seems to me that there is an awful lot of "look what I did" going on here and not enough "this is how I accomplished ____________(fill in the blank)".

This is about sharing knowledge folks, not just tooting your horn (perhaps that should have been a bass reference but you get my drift). Let's see some more process and less product!

Greg N

I try not to comment unless it's constructive criticism or helpful knowledge. I agree whole-heartedly.

I see a lot of "Look what I did" here - but I also see a lot of "this is how to do it" too. So I guess I don't agree.

there's trade secrets I refuse to reveal because I have yet to see anyone else do it.

people don't just say "this is how I did it" but if anyone asks I haven't seen anyone refuse to tell!

I see a lot of "Look what I did" here - but I also see a lot of "this is how to do it" too. So I guess I don't agree.

I especially like threads that follow a certain bass being built process by process like Wilser and others post on their builds. I think they're very informative and makes me want to get into the business. It's almost as good as watching the Discovery Channel.:D

I joined to learn. and to help other to do the same. I've seen some great builds, some I have learnt from and some I've just drooled over. but much like JonsBasses said, I'll post when I have something to say, but sometimes I will pat someone on the back because it would be rude not to with the great looking stuff they've made.

Greg you are right but I have to say that I love all those look what I did threads because first you can see nice basses and second because you get ideas from what other people are doing. A good example of this was TBer Budman... this guy really does excellent and great looking basses. Even when he most of the time didnt explain how he did something unless somebody else ask about that it is a REAL pleasure to see his work.

About those "look how I did that" I love them too because it teachs me or gives ideas about how to do this or that.

About me saying how I did something I guess that with only one finished project at my back I'm not at that level yet but someday I will and then Id love to do a pictorial or video about something but I'm still too rookie and messie to do that so I limit myself to comments here and there about I have learnt so far and let people like you with tons of experience to show us (the less experienced ones) how to accomplish A or B. :)

Hey Greg,
I don't agree with you (sort of, maybe). All those 'look what I did' threads almost always spark conversations on how it was done and how different people achieve the same (or similar) results using different methods.

Many may have noticed that my posts have slowed down recently because I've been recording videos show HOW I do the things I do.

One thing we do agree on is that this forum is for knowledge sharing and there are a lot of people not willing to do that ...so what, I say they're their own perdition.

I especially like threads that follow a certain bass being built process by process like Wilser and others post on their builds. I think they're very informative and makes me want to get into the business. It's almost as good as watching the Discovery Channel.:D

The whole reason I found TB in the first place was because I was interested in learning how to build a bass. I came from mimf.com - Musical Instruments Makers Forum - after pouring over their diagrams, how-to's lists of books, etc.

Since I've been here, I've learned how to refinish a junker, remove the frets, remove the fretboard, wire pups, and more. Not all directly from these very threads - but I certainly start here and find my way to the info I need.

I am currently starting my first build. I've got my design - my pickups are ordered, my bridge, nut, truss and tuners will be ordered soon and I've already gotten much of the wood I plan to use.

As soon as I am ready to actually start cutting, planing, drilling and carving, I will be sure to post as many pictures and details as I can. Maybe I can offer some of that "How I did it" you are looking for.

More likely, I will end up demonstrating a lot of thing you won't want to do, but that's helpful too, right? :D

There are the "look and see what I built" posts, and the "tutorial" posts...

I think both are valid for this forum. I do like to see process, jigs, and how to info... but I also get very inspired when I see a completed bass.

The completed bass can be viewed in terms of a critique. Look at it and ponder "how was it done?" or "how could/would I do approach making it that way?" If I have a question about how something was done in a "look and see what I did" post, I ask it! All the builders here seem very nice and are willing to post info when asked.

I think there is a nice mix of both kinds of threads...

I've only posted a couple of builds on here, and I rarely start threads. Sure, I'd like to be able to toss up the "look what I did" threads, but I'm not building a lot right now, and frankly I'm rather intimidated by some of the "bigger names" on here. I've very much appreciated the posts on methods for improving the process (especially the stickied "how to" ones). I have changed how I do some things (like pickup covers and cavity covers) specifically because someone posted saying "this is a better way".

Having only built basses for a few years (started out on that more trebly side of things :O) , I'm glad that those who have been building for 20+ years are willing to share their wealth of knowledge, even if it's only through a pictoral on building one instrument. I'm not as young as most starting out on here, and wasn't even when I started, but this site and the MIMF are the greatest repositories of of stringed-instrument knowledge on the net. I can't knock it.

Good stuff, and thanks for the quick responses.

The reason I posted this is to encourage more process threads and not to squelch the others.

I read hesitancy from some of the "newbies" above to post process stuff because they don't feel like they have something to contribute. That can not be further from the truth guys. Experts learn much from people who are looking at things fresh and without the prejudice of previous training. Please show us your stuff, including the "mistakes".

Sorry 69 but there really is nothing new under the sun here. Look at what Taylor is doing with their web site. Holy guacamole! Talk about showing your stuff. These people have hundreds of thousands of dollars in process' that could be deemed "trade secrets" and share them openly and without compensation. We all learned our stuff from somewhere and I feel it is my duty to pay it forward. When I do I get more in return than I gave.

Keep it coming folks.

Greg N

More likely, I will end up demonstrating a lot of thing you won't want to do, but that's helpful too, right? :D


Yeah, it's good to see the good and bad side of building. that way I can really see what I'm getting into.:D

Greg, could you post a link to where Taylor shows their build process? I was just poking at their site and found a lot of show 'n tell, but couldn't readily find a 'build process' section. I'd love to see it!

EDIT: capnsandwich - I am going to update my "first build" thread with some details about the wood seeking and finding process I've been going through. This thread reminded me that it's important to keep updating.

I agree with the openness and transparency in building, and have shared much of what I was thinking out loud and/or prototyping in the shop from when I first tinkered with the idea of assembling to present.

I remember discussing the idea of a bolt-on single cut several years back when nobody was yet offering one as a non-custom item - and now look where we are today (not that it was my great and innovative idea that others ran with, but more that it was something not being done at a time that several of those large name builders were semi-active in their participation here ... and now look what they offer as a standard model - bolt-on single-cuts)

but who cares ... we all bass (sic intended) much of what we do on what Leo and a couple others did before us. do we owe them $$$ for 'stealing' their ideas? I think not. it's also pretty arrogant to thinnk that some small idea we have today is going to revolutionize the bass building industry to the extent that people will be talking about us in the years to come. but if all you're here to do is take, take, take ... well ... enjoy what you do in private, and I'm sorry that you're missing the point of the community here and at MIMF :(

all the best,

R

They call it "Factory Fridays".
http://www.taylorguitars.com/see-hear/

+1 Rodent

Greg N

...More likely, I will end up demonstrating a lot of thing you won't want to do, but that's helpful too, right? :D

That made me smile. But really because, guess what, I'm positive that I do some things in ways that are either wrong, or dumb, or even unsafe. So no one is alone in that regard. That's part of the value of a forum like this.

To the topic, I am aware that posting a build thread provides some exposure, and knowing that, I try to pay back by detailing everything I can about how I do things (right or wrong). I get the added bonus that processes that I could improve on sometimes get pointed out. But after the two threads I've started, I really can't see myself documenting in this much detail in the future unless it's something unusual like Alex's bass.

In any case it doesn't bother me to see "look what I did" threads. I enjoy all of them even if I don't often comment. But it might make sense to have a sticky thread for that so they don't drop of the page and get lost...

So, I'm just sipping a Smuttynose IPA here and starting to ramble now so I'll shut up now...

Edit:
Reasons to participate - MIMF used to be my main web resource, but their rules are really restrictive. Not that there isn't lots of good info there. But here I feel it's a little more relaxed and a nice community feel. So I come here to exchange ideas and learn.

So, I'm just sipping a Smuttynose IPA

as one who used to frequent Portsmith, NH ... I am soooo jealous :bawl: ya know, I'd even be happy making the drive up to Portland for a meal and brews at Gritty's.

you need to take yourself a drive down to Hudson, MA and spend an evening sampling all the tasty treats on tap at the HorseShoe Pub - it's definitely worth the drive


we now return you back to your regular building discussion ....


R

Having just recently finished up my first build, I'd like to say how much I appeciate all the help and advise I received here from "watching the process" and asking questions. It is great to see how others ( especially with much more experience ) approach certain parts of a build. I often found the "look what I did" threads just as helpful, however, in that they can be very motivational when you're looking at a pile of half-shaped body wings and a cardboard box full of electronic wizardry. I found it much like going to see someone live that you really admire as a player. I almost allways get home motivated to work harder to be a better musician. Hopefully I will be able to share some great time saving build secret of my own one day ( not now- first bass took over a year and a half to finish ).

I am curious to find out if there is anyone else who feels the way I do about the luthier's section of talk bass. Smack me upside the head if you like, but it seems to me that there is an awful lot of "look what I did" going on here and not enough "this is how I accomplished ____________(fill in the blank)".

This is about sharing knowledge folks, not just tooting your horn (perhaps that should have been a bass reference but you get my drift). Let's see some more process and less product!

Greg N

I guess I'm guilty of that to an extent, if someone asks how I did this or that I will gladly explain to them, but if someone needs to learn the basics of building there's plenty of tutorial material here that can be read through. There aren't any real secrets to any of this, just different ways of doing the same things that have been done for years. Thats why I like to take lots of photos. A picture is worth a thousand words!;)

I guess I'm guilty of that to an extent,

We all are. That's why I decided to put a stick in the soup and give it a stir. So much of what people here do here is astounding to those who haven't done it. It just seems simple to those who have because, well because we have.

Pick any process, say adjusting your truss rod. Break it down into its basic steps and try to show/explain it to someone else in a clear and coherent fashion. In doing so you learn it yourself more deeply as well as teach others and also receive critique and suggestions from those with a different approach. Win-win-win.

Again, I am just looking for more "how" and will hopefully give back more than I take.

Greg N

"Man in the Mirror" by the great MJ (be very careful if you're gonna insult MJ in front of me ...personal issues apart he's one of the greatest artists of our time and trashing him may lead to a robust punch in the mouth, Jason Statham style ...now back to subject).

You could start by posting some how-to's and asking how's gonna be next! I started doing that with a long time ago (the scarf joint tutorial) and then with one of my first comissioned builds back in '06 (the setneck tutorial) and nobody took the next step (nateo doesn't participate anymore and did some nice ones, so did Scott French, Rodent did some but is kind of stalled because of his move), so I just continue doing it myself.

"I'm gonna make a change for once in my life, it's gonna feel real good, gonna make a difference, gonna make it right" ahhh, the inspiration.

EDIT: oops, just saw your scarf on a fanned fret thread ...do more! I needed that one!

We all are. That's why I decided to put a stick in the soup and give it a stir. So much of what people here do here is astounding to those who haven't done it. It just seems simple to those who have because, well because we have.

Pick any process, say adjusting your truss rod. Break it down into its basic steps and try to show/explain it to someone else in a clear and coherent fashion. In doing so you learn it yourself more deeply as well as teach others and also receive critique and suggestions from those with a different approach. Win-win-win.

Again, I am just looking for more "how" and will hopefully give back more than I take.

Greg N

EDIT: oops, just saw your scarf on a fanned fret thread ...do more!

I will!

I am not the sort to ask of others things that I won't do myself. Did you miss my nut scratching thread too? http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=402689

And the fan fret layout?
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=415780

Not that anything I do is "right" or "better" than how others do it. Just my way and subject to change at a moments notice.

Greg N

I am curious to find out if there is anyone else who feels the way I do about the luthier's section of talk bass. Smack me upside the head if you like, but it seems to me that there is an awful lot of "look what I did" going on here and not enough "this is how I accomplished ____________(fill in the blank)".

This is about sharing knowledge folks, not just tooting your horn (perhaps that should have been a bass reference but you get my drift). Let's see some more process and less product!

Greg N

I completely disagree with what you said. This section has an equal mix of process and product. What you may be missing out on is the people that ask how to do things and the threads that get 50 replies with a different way to do one task. There are definitely people who post their finished products and thats awesome, they are proud and want to show off. I definitely see tons of how to on here though.

I think this forum has a healthy amount of discusions on the building process actually. Like it was said earlier most of us aren't shy to ask why you do something one way or another and we usually get decent answers for, even with pics sometimes which explains even better!

Let's face it, making a whole picture tutorial takes a lot of time and effort, not everyone has that time. I've made a few of those but they somehow always get lost inside someone else's thread where nobody ever sees it :D

I love the way Wilser's been doing his video tutorials in the last weeks. This is realy cool. I had already spent a bunch of time watching luthier videos on youtube, I've thought of doing it too and bought a small webscam for it but I'm just not happy with the quality of it. I don't think I'll do any until I get a decent digital camera but I'm really aiming for that.

I wouldn't have this forum any other way, we rock guys! It's the best place to hang out. :hyper:

"Man in the Mirror" by the great MJ (be very careful if you're gonna insult MJ in front of me ...personal issues apart he's one of the greatest artists of our time and trashing him may lead to a robust punch in the mouth, Jason Statham style ...now back to subject).


Wow we learn something new about Mr. Ramirez every day. While I agree with how Will feels about MJ being a great artist, the statement above still seems to get my imagination going. I can't help but think of Will popping and locking to Thriller in his workshop which leads to moon walking effortlessly on the saw dust covered floor while in his boxers, then later when he successfully routes a neck pocket he grabs his crotch, spins around two times instantaneously and lets out a hearty HOOOOOOOO! HEEE! HEEE!....lol......:hiding:..........Sorry Will...:p

Wow we learn something new about Mr. Ramirez every day. While I agree with how Will feels about MJ being a great artist, the statement above still seems to get my imagination going. I can't help but think of Will popping and locking to Thriller in his workshop which leads to moon walking effortlessly on the saw dust covered floor while in his boxers, then later when he successfully routes a neck pocket he grabs his crotch, spins around two times instantaneously and lets out a hearty HOOOOOOOO! HEEE! HEEE!....lol......:hiding:..........Sorry Will...:p


:D funniest post ever.


all this sucks actually :( You know I like Wils so much but it looks like from his last post that we're going to have to get into a punching match together





:D

well it is always nice to see. if they put picks of the building process, then you could take a resonable stab at the what and how. plus that give idea's for other projects

Well SoM gets pretty in depth every time he posts progress. He's been helpful to quite a few with his builds...

:D funniest post ever.


all this sucks actually :( You know I like Wils so much but it looks like from his last post that we're going to have to get into a punching match together





:D

i can't believe i messed that when i was reading this. made be spit out what i was drinking. omg. that made my day. :D

Wow we learn something new about Mr. Ramirez every day. While I agree with how Will feels about MJ being a great artist, the statement above still seems to get my imagination going. I can't help but think of Will popping and locking to Thriller in his workshop which leads to moon walking effortlessly on the saw dust covered floor while in his boxers, then later when he successfully routes a neck pocket he grabs his crotch, spins around two times instantaneously and lets out a hearty HOOOOOOOO! HEEE! HEEE!....lol......:hiding:..........Sorry Will...:p

Just gotta make sure I put my chisel or gauge back in the workbench before doing the crotch move :eek:

No need to apologize! I do dance around in the shop while I work ...just can't do MJs moves.

:D funniest post ever.
all this sucks actually :( You know I like Wils so much but it looks like from his last post that we're going to have to get into a punching match together
:D

Phil, you're my friend and I like you very much. But I swear, dude, you go around bad mouthing MJ and I'll be on the next flight half way around the world aussie-bitch-slapping your face :D I don't expect you to take the hit with a smiling face which is why I'm bringing 2 pairs of boxing gloves so that we can solve this the Ali way. :bassist:

You should do a search for my posts with "Michael Jackson" in Off Topic so that you can see my past experience with MJ bashers.

Just gotta make sure I put my chisel or gauge back in the workbench before doing the crotch move :eek:

No need to apologize! I do dance around in the shop while I work ...just can't do MJs moves.



Well even if you don't have the moves, I have faith that if you leave the chisel or gauge in hand you can probably hit that falsetto with no problem.;):p

Isn't there a forum for "look what I did" threads? The builders show case. Or is that just for Ibanezcollector.

You need to pay for the service of showing what you made. It's more a publicity forum to advertise products for sale and it costs $40 per month if I'm not mistaken. That's big money for me right now and I'm not advertising anything for sale now anyway.

Phil, you're my friend and I like you very much. But I swear, dude, you go around bad mouthing MJ and I'll be on the next flight half way around the world aussie-bitch-slapping your face :D I don't expect you to take the hit with a smiling face which is why I'm bringing 2 pairs of boxing gloves so that we can solve this the Ali way. :bassist:

:D