My band play "Hot Stuff" by Donna Summer, and usually I play a disco octave jumping "straight style", emphasising and breaking up the outro with stacatto notes. It sounds OK and grooves along quite nicely.

Recently I found this video of Hot Stuff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ikt0NGlqc

and thought I would try that bass players approach to the bassline.

I failed miserably. Timing was all over the place and I was missing notes and strings.

More practice and listening to funkier upbeat music is obviously in order, but any suggestions are also welcome!

I've found that if you utilize the "3 finger gallop style" ..ie ala Steve Harris, It may help you, give it a shot.

I'd be surprised if you could do the muting properly with 3 fingers but give it a shot. I guarantee the bassist in that clip is using 2. I would use 2.

Man, I don't think I could manage that without practicing it a lot. Slow it way down and get the feel right first, then slowly ramp up the speed. My fingers are just to slow to do this line so I would either not do the triplets or do this version -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwsSZ3OvtN8&feature=related

Yea, no mistaking it. It's not an easy line. It may not be a ton of notes or machine gun speed metal playing, but it's tough. Practicing with a metronome at a slowed down tempo and slowly ramping up the bpm is all I can recommend really. It's all about the woodshed.

If you want to learn this style of playing I'd check out Anthony Vitti's Finger Funk Workbooks volume 1 and 2. Very good books with playalong CD's. They aren't easy either but if you can get through those books you will end up being a lot funkier.

I'd be surprised if you could do the muting properly with 3 fingers but give it a shot. I guarantee the bassist in that clip is using 2. I would use 2.

He's using 3 fingers. You can see over her right shoulder at around 1:50 and again around 2:30. His first finger is on the low notes and his 2nd and 3rd are the 16th notes on the octave.

Mmm.. I don't think he's actually plucking with 3 fingers. It may kind of look like it from the video but he is most likely muting with his other fingers. If it was a better shot on higher quality video maybe you could say for sure. It definitely sounds like 2 fingers to me. If I have some time tonight I'll try it and see.

The bass player really does bring the "Hot Stuff"...I think it is definitely a Larry Graham inspired bass line.
I must listen to more Larry Graham...I'll start with "Dynamite"!

funk is a non-exact science..nobody can teach you how to become funky, its something you have to aqure yourself, in your own way..sounds to me like you just need more time getting comftorble with your instrument.

I can remember being intrigued by funky octave-y bass lines in the 1970s and I noticed that a lot of the best players I saw, would use a technique where their right-hand thumb plucked the lower notes and the first two fingers played the higher notes - so you had like a fixed octave position for your right hand, which didn't move that much - leading to economy of motion.

I can remember trying it and finding it very comfortable for fast disco bass lines..? It's not slap - but just a way of playing fast lines that cover octaves.

I can remember being intrigued by funky octave-y bass lines in the 1970s and I noticed that a lot of the best players I saw, would use a technique where their right-hand thumb plucked the lower notes and the first two fingers played the higher notes - so you had like a fixed octave position for your right hand, which didn't move that much - leading to economy of motion.

I can remember trying it and finding it very comfortable for fast disco bass lines..? It's not slap - but just a way of playing fast lines that cover octaves.

i use that very technique quite often. carry over from classical guitar but works great for bass as well.

Thanks for all the useful advice! I know my first mistake was trying to play it cold without woodshedding it, but at the time I wanted to see how much I could "feel the funk". Not much apparently :)

I'll take a few of the suggestions on board, grab those books if I can ever afford non-essentials again and have a play with the techniques suggested to see which fit my playing style.

Bruce, just out of curiosity did using the thumb in that manner improve your slap playing at all? Or have a detrimental effect to it? The reason I ask is I have a very heavy thumb and when I try to slap or use my thumb (Vic Wooten double thumb style etc) I practically assault my poor bass and it sounds awful! As a result, I don't slap at all, which I believe might be rather anti-funk in itself :)

I failed miserably. Timing was all over the place and I was missing notes and strings.

More practice is obviously in order, but any suggestions are also welcome!
The comment above about needing to develop your own 'funk' is pretty accurate; it's a hard thing to teach. For that, we should all listen to the Meters once a day :)

However, if a part is presenting purely technical challenges, you can take a technical approach. I use the program called Transcribe to do lifts all the time. You can slow the music down while retaining pitch information. If you're trying to lift a complex part (i.e. Jeff Berlin's part on "Joe Frazier" or something like that) it sure helps to hear it at 50% speed in the same key as the full speed version.

Maybe you can try getting Transcribe and then playing along at a slower speed and gradually speeding up. This is a great way to practice parts that are presenting strictly technical challenges. Feel... that's a different story.

Good luck with it

Nik

(Disclaimer: I have absolutely nothing to do with Transcribe except that I use it)

Thanks for all the useful advice! I know my first mistake was trying to play it cold without woodshedding it, but at the time I wanted to see how much I could "feel the funk". Not much apparently :)

I'll take a few of the suggestions on board, grab those books if I can ever afford non-essentials again and have a play with the techniques suggested to see which fit my playing style.

Bruce, just out of curiosity did using the thumb in that manner improve your slap playing at all? Or have a detrimental effect to it? The reason I ask is I have a very heavy thumb and when I try to slap or use my thumb (Vic Wooten double thumb style etc) I practically assault my poor bass and it sounds awful! As a result, I don't slap at all, which I believe might be rather anti-funk in itself :)

Well - I think it is a case of getting comfortable with integrating your thumb into your right hand playing style - I found this useful for all sort of things - muting lower strings, playing harmonics as part of chords, artficial harmonics etc. etc.

I'm comfortable with slap - although I have never been interested in using this as something to impress others with how fast you can do it. I think the thing is not to think that you are going to hit the bass as hard as you can - the lighter the touch, the better, in this case. How lightly can you slap and still get a nice-sounding note..?

So - using your thumb for octave disco bass lines can help on this.:)

its just a simple triplet feel line, try using alternate thumb finger picking on the note, or rolling it with 2 fingers and a thumb, shouldn't be too hard x

the funk originates from the pelvis..

once you get those thrusts goin, you dont have to worry about right hand technique at all!

sleazey funk is played from the hips..

try using alternate thumb finger picking on the note, or rolling it with 2 fingers and a thumb, shouldn't be too hard

Well - I've just spend the last 2 or 3 posts talking about this!!

Are you actually reading the thread..?

You CAN do octave skips with three fingers like this.

I do it (actually the opposite, two 16ths on the low octave one on the high octave, which I find the harder variation) in the chorus of a cover of Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick. It makes it possible to play this stuff in a single right hand motion. Never thought of the thumb M I to do this, I would have just modified the technique I use on HMWYRS. In either case left handing muting takes care of muting the ringing perfectly alongside right hand muting (never understood how anyone can truly claim to only mute with the left or right hand rather than a combination, thats just me)

You cant expect to just do this stuff without some serious time finding a technique that suits you and working on it to make it fluid enough to be funky. Once you get a technique for something like this you then have to be careful not to over use it of course, otherwise you'll find yourself employing it for root five country basslines and asking us why you got fired :D

Well - I've just spend the last 2 or 3 posts talking about this!!

Are you actually reading the thread..?

There isnt that much octive play going on, and no i don't even like donna summers, just wanted to make the point that it was a technique that I use and have perfected and could see how it was done, there was no need 4 the aggression, I don't have the time 2 read the thread. but i can bring the funk x

there was no need 4 the aggression, I don't have the time 2 read the thread. but i can bring the funk x

There was no aggression - I just think if you are going to take part in a thread, then you need to read all the posts and take part in the "conversation" - I see it as rude to ignore other posts = not listening.

If you haven't got time - then don't take part - simple!

Well - I think it is a case of getting comfortable with integrating your thumb into your right hand playing style - I found this useful for all sort of things - muting lower strings, playing harmonics as part of chords, artficial harmonics etc. etc.

I'm comfortable with slap - although I have never been interested in using this as something to impress others with how fast you can do it. I think the thing is not to think that you are going to hit the bass as hard as you can - the lighter the touch, the better, in this case. How lightly can you slap and still get a nice-sounding note..?

So - using your thumb for octave disco bass lines can help on this.:)
Thanks Bruce. I certainly have to integrate my thumb into my playing anyway. I tend to anchor the thumb on my pickup which is affecting my efficiency and ability to play lines cleanly as well as affecting the health of my thumb. I've noticed for at least 6 months now my thumb hurts for days after practice and the pain never really goes away.


the funk originates from the pelvis..

Haha I will remember that. More thrust. And if anyone has seen the movie "The Full Monty" that's actually very appropriate with this song! :D

There isnt that much octive play going on, and no i don't even like donna summers, just wanted to make the point that it was a technique that I use and have perfected and could see how it was done, there was no need 4 the aggression, I don't have the time 2 read the thread. but i can bring the funk x
I didn't feel that Bruce's response was all that aggressive but I could cut the arrogance of your retort with a knife. Funky ;)

You're telling me that 2 post my bass in the show you basses thred i need to read 300 X pages of posts? i read the first few posts listened to the youtube thing and then gave my input as I cud hear what the bassist was doing was a technique i use regually, sorry bout the arrogance, i didn't like the patronisation in the tone of "have you achully read this thred" aggression was the rong word. and infact u misunderstood the technique i was suggesting as it is not what you were saying earlier, in fact its an unusal technique similar to rolling if u no wat that is which many don't. peace and luv xxx

Well at that point there were only 10 or so posts in the thread and there was an ongoing discussion - it just seems rude to come in and say you can't be bothered to read them..?

hardly, neway even if wat i sed was just repeating what you sed which it wasn't it wud have just backed up ur point there was no need to get offended, but wat i achully sed was nothing like wat u sed so achully it was u not reading xx

As others have said, this is a good line to use your thumb on.

I never used to use my thumb for much more than an occasional slap, but then I saw a local jazz guitarist playing bass in a pick up band one day, and he was pretty much just adapting his guitar style to the bass. It was totally inspirational seeing how often he used his thumb for things that I wouldn't normally have thought of. Since then I've really tried to bring my thumb in more, and on things like this, with the octave, it's only logical. One of the upsides of it is that it gives you a good device to keep rhythm with, as your thumb picks down on the down beat and your fingers pick upward on the up beat. For me, it lets me feel the line much more organically, and therefor lets me focus more on interesting things to do with it.

I've also replaced a lot of my thumb slaps with a thumb pluck type thing. I don't listen to a lot of slap playing, nor do I study the technique, because I rarely ever use it (I'm a punk rocker), so I'm not sure if this is a common technique or not. In certain situations, though, it's definitely advantageous.

Bring the funk and please bring the spelling!

Bring the funk and please bring the spelling!
Funk don't need no dikshunary! ;)

You're telling me that 2 post my bass in the show you basses thred i need to read 300 X pages of posts? i read the first few posts listened to the youtube thing and then gave my input as I cud hear what the bassist was doing was a technique i use regually, sorry bout the arrogance, i didn't like the patronisation in the tone of "have you achully read this thred" aggression was the rong word. and infact u misunderstood the technique i was suggesting as it is not what you were saying earlier, in fact its an unusal technique similar to rolling if u no wat that is which many don't. peace and luv xxx
Believe me, when it comes to the knowledge base of TB, people know. If they don't you are using different terminology, not special techniques ;)

As others have said, this is a good line to use your thumb on.

Yep I will be trying to do that more.

Thanks again peeps!

Bruce Linfeld:
......I think it is a case of getting comfortable with integrating your thumb into your right hand playing style.

Namraj:
.....try using alternate thumb finger picking on the note, or rolling it with 2 fingers (right hand playing style?) and a thumb.

Looks the same to me, unless you're talking about your other hand :)

Namraj:
You're telling me that 2 post my bass in the show you basses thred i need to read 300 X pages of posts?

:eyebrow: c'mon man, what's that about? 300 pages? N/A with this particular situation.



If you see someone post your sentiments, that is a positive signal to use, +1 :)

If you see someone post your sentiments, that is a positive signal to use, +1 :)
+1

:D

As a bassist who plays this song at every show, I can tell you that the original (recording) approach is heaps better than that one in the video. I guess that bassist was trying to show off his chops or something but it took the disco right out of the performance for me. The standard octave style is just right for the song. I wouldn't do anything else. Furthermore, it's not a FUNK song. It's a DISCO song and it should be treated as such, IMO.

Well there's DW's reply, and, what i was thinking is that I could double thumb this one, but if you wanted to emulate the vid, guess what I would use..... a pick! Thin, so tremolo wasnt a problem. Blasphemie? Whatever gets the job done brother. And yeah, you can pick FUNK! BTW, DW's right, this one aint Funk, missing the neccesary ingredients.

DW, I;m coming back to hear you play bro; if I may ask, what is that cool-arse symbol in your avatar? Saw it on the back of a van the other day. It resonates me for some reason.....

I'll 2nd BuffaloBass on the pick.
:hiding:
I was just about to suggest that. I went and tried it first. Works great for me with a Dunlop Gator Grip 1.5mm. I felt too sloppy, and the tone seemed to "jangly" with a .73mm (yellow) Dunlop Tortex.

if I may ask, what is that cool-arse symbol in your avatar? Saw it on the back of a van the other day. It resonates me for some reason.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_(musician)

http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefstafkap.htm

DW, I;m coming back to hear you play bro; if I may ask, what is that cool-arse symbol in your avatar? Saw it on the back of a van the other day. It resonates me for some reason.....I'm having a hard time finding the demo (I hope I didn't delete it).

The symbol is from the current keeper of the funk........Prince. That is his TAFKAP symbol when he wasn't using his name!

Here is a different version. It's live (not a good recording) and you'll have to listen with good headphones to hear the bass. Side note: We fired that female singer after that show.

1Fifty1 Band-Hot Stuff (Live version) (http://www.zshare.net/audio/11337489f527f33d/)

I'll see if I can find the actual demo when I get home this evening.

Ditto on all the above advice...My recommendation is to get a hold of the books from Anthony Vitti on fingerfunk they are great. They will definitely improve your playing and the technique gradually creep into whatever you play.

You can also learn small segments of a tune and gradually add more and more untill you have it all down. I can remember spending months learning one tune from the Latin Bass Book by Oscar Stagnaro (a great great book BTW). You may never get it all but at the end of the day you would have grown as player from trying. Good luck. Good topic.

Found it. This is from a demo my old band did. I kept the bass line pretty close to the original.

1Fifty1-Hot Stuff (Studio version) (http://www.zshare.net/audio/113318415ca82a2e/)

OP-
A heavy dose of The Village People's songbook + maybe Chic's "Dance, Dance, Dance" will be a big help in practicing the l1-&a2-&a3-&a4-&al Root-Octave-Ocatve rhythm so prevalent in Disco tuneage.

DW, dig it! Nice lungs too!

There was no aggression - I just think if you are going to take part in a thread, then you need to read all the posts and take part in the "conversation" - I see it as rude to ignore other posts = not listening.

If you haven't got time - then don't take part - simple!

I have to agree with Bruce here. He stated the point, and much more articulately, which I'm sure was of more help!

Found it. This is from a demo my old band did. I kept the bass line pretty close to the original.

1Fifty1-Hot Stuff (Studio version) (http://www.zshare.net/audio/113318415ca82a2e/)

Sweet DW!

Really grooving.

As far as "bringing the funk" is concerned, is to comcentrate entirely on your drummer. Make sure you've practiced the grooves in your own time to get your fingers to manage it ok, and so that you're confident playing it.

As soon as you play with your band, concentrate 100% on what your drummer plays, and instruct him to do the same with you. It'll groove sooo much nicer as everything you play will be based on your drummers feel. They'll grow off what you play and vice versa and it just gets better and better.:)

Good luck

Furthermore, it's not a FUNK song. It's a DISCO song and it should be treated as such, IMO.

+ and thank you...I was this far down in the thread thinking I might have to point this out. Even in the days of this video my peers and I would have considered this fellow a wanker. You want to learn to bring the funk go first learn from a master...PFunks a good start.