I'm looking for your opinions & pros/cons on both setups as it relates to cost, ease of use, efficiency & any other factors to consider. I'm seeking ideas & real-life scenarios to help with the decision making process. We will be building a system completely so the only mixer/amp considerations for now are as they relate to the speaker question.

Powered is the way to go IMO. Built in processing, the speakers are properly powered, Takes up less space since you don't have any amp racks.

Powered is the way to go IMO. Built in processing, the speakers are properly powered, Takes up less space since you don't have any amp racks.

but...

if your amp dies on tour, you´ll be missing a speaker, too...

but...

if your amp dies on tour, you´ll be missing a speaker, too... We carry extra Powered speakers so it is not a problem. You could limp through the night with one speaker if you had to. If your power amp goes down and you don't have a spare your screwed.

Powered, definitely - less stuff to stow and carry, and often better sound. Less hassle with cables, ohm and power ratings, no need for separate crossovers, etc etc etc.

If a speaker amp breaks, I'd sacrifice one of the active monitors and use that for the PA. That have never happened though.

Powered, definitely - less stuff to stow and carry, and often better sound. Less hassle with cables, ohm and power ratings, no need for separate crossovers, etc etc etc.

If a speaker amp breaks, I'd sacrifice one of the active monitors and use that for the PA. That have never happened though.

What he said. I have all unpowered, but if I started a new PA from scratch I'd go all powered.

I'd have to say powered.

I seen a cover band playing at this downtown bar a few weeks ago, they had 2 powered 18" subs, 2 powered 2x15's and a 16 channel mixer. Bassist and guitarist went direct , no keyboad amps, no monitors, everyone had IEM's. The stage was so neat & tidy, everything sounded really clean and really loud!

I recently went to my friend's house to check out a PA he just purchased. He has 2 old passive 18" subs and a set of 2x15's, 4 monitors, all passive. With this he has 2 power amps, a 31 band graphic EQ, crossovers, vocal effects unit, gates etc....all of this takes up a tremendous amount of room. The rack which holds the mixer + power amps etc is the size of a Toyota Prius.

If I was in the market for a PA, I would go powered. No doubt about it.

+1 for powered.

They are mostly bi-amped so if one amp dies in one box , you still have your others , not so if you are daisy-chained to an external power amp.

Even my bass amp is a RCF ART series.......

Looks like powered is the way to go. In real-life, has anyone had an amp go out on a powered cab?

When I put my small club system together a few year back, powereds were just coming out and many of us were suspicious of them. At the time one of the hot set-ups were the passive Yamaha SV club series and powered Mackie 808.

I A/B'd the Yamahas against a set of passive JBL ML series and the Yamahas blew them away. And they were cheaper.

So I went that way. Nowadays, the sound quality of powereds is way above this system. I would retool in a second if I could afford it. Many powered units weigh less than the passive ones so there is the weight issue. They sound better, easier to EQ, etc. A small mixer would also weigh less and take up less space than my 808.

Powereds. Definitely

Hmm, so the extra weight of powere cabs isn't a problem when you have to lift them up on the poles? And running all those AC cables in addition to the audio cables doesn't cause problems? And what about having AC cables running parallel to your audio cables- does that cause noise in the systems?

I'm skeptical of the overall advantages of powered cabs, is why I'm asking.

jte

Our band uses passive speakers because we've worked so many venues in which running a power cord to each speaker wasn't a viable option - especially when we're playing outdoors where chaining long extension cords would be required; some venues haven't had enough AC outlets to accommodate a full backline, much less active speakers.

That said, powered speakers can be very convenient, and are sounding better every year, and as class D amps and neo drivers become more commonplace, the weight of powered speakers should continue to decline.

Our band uses passive speakers because we've worked so many venues in which running a power cord to each speaker wasn't a viable option - especially when we're playing outdoors where chaining long extension cords would be required; some venues haven't had enough AC outlets to accommodate a full backline, much less active speakers.

That was one of my main concerns. Thanks for throwing it out there. BTW, for anyone using these...what kind of power draw is typical on these cabs?

Another vote for powered, ( I use Mackie SRM 450's and SWA1501's for subs), the "power" question I think is a non-problem, (you need the same amount, or more, power for the amps too). We run an extension cable with an 8 outlet power conditioner to right behind each sub, also use those to power our stage gear. One nice thing about powered speakers is that the amps are designed specifically for the frequencies they need to put out, makes for a much cleaner sounding and more efficient amp. No noise from running AC and signal cables near eachother, not for us at least. Our system is usually so quiet you have to look at the speaker to see if the power light is on.
Power draw: SRM450 - ~4 amps per cab
SWA1501 - ~5 amps per cab
Although we recently played a party where we ran the entire PA and stage gear off a single 20 amp circuit, with no problems. Oh, and stage gear is almost nothing, we don't use amps, so it's just a couple of Line6 Pods and keyboards.

Hmm, so the extra weight of powere cabs isn't a problem when you have to lift them up on the poles? And running all those AC cables in addition to the audio cables doesn't cause problems? And what about having AC cables running parallel to your audio cables- does that cause noise in the systems?

I'm skeptical of the overall advantages of powered cabs, is why I'm asking.

jte

For bigger shows I borrow a pair of JBL EON G2's. Lighter than my passive Yamahas.

As for AC, as been posted, ya gotta plug stuff in anyway and if not those, then an amp rack, powered mixer,etc

Another thing with the powereds is that dollar for dollar you can often get more power per enclosure.

Now you can make mistakes with this gear like any other kind of gear. I was thinking about Behringers version of these and spec wise they don't stand up to some others. Not to mention I have been less than thrilled with the sound of some of their passive cabs.

Mackie, JBL these would be tough to beat. I would be interested in anyone who has experience with the new TAPCO Thump series which share some Mackie design technology.

JKT

We use EV powered speakers for our mains and couldn't be happier. We tried out four or five different companies (Mackie, JBL etc.) but the wooden cabs of the EVs easily provided the warmest tone. The plastic boxes just sounded to... well... plastic. The EV's have plenty of power as well, around 450 watts for the tops and 650 watts for the subs. Which ever brand you decide powered cabs are the way to go. For us at least. :bassist:

Mackie, JBL these would be tough to beat.T

Gotta disagree here. Yorkville and EV crush Mackie & JBL offerings IMO.

Gotta disagree here. Yorkville and EV crush Mackie & JBL offerings IMO.

I concur:)

OK, I see. But I'm still leery of a lot of long AC cables as opposed to even twice as many long speaker cables. So you're running a 50' mic cable and two 50' AC extension cords to each side of stage to drive a powered speaker and a powered sub on either side?

jte

OK, I see. But I'm still leery of a lot of long AC cables as opposed to even twice as many long speaker cables. So you're running a 50' mic cable and two 50' AC extension cords to each side of stage to drive a powered speaker and a powered sub on either side?

jte

Stages already have power, that's how amps and things get power, no need to run a 50' extension cord.

OK, I see. But I'm still leery of a lot of long AC cables as opposed to even twice as many long speaker cables. So you're running a 50' mic cable and two 50' AC extension cords to each side of stage to drive a powered speaker and a powered sub on either side?

jteDo you not run power to the far side of the stage for your guitar/bass rig? Even if you are playing someplace where power is that far away why would you need to run two 50ft extension cords? Use one and a power strip. If anything you are using less long cords because you don't need 2-50ft speaker cables to reach the far side of the stage.

you are best off with the shortest run being the power amp to speaker, which is unbeatable with powered cabs. powered or not, you will still have to have proper eq to tune the system with.
i'm a fan of yorkville for best bang for the buck.
seems like everybody is making both wood as well as plastic offerings these days as well.

you are best off with the shortest run being the power amp to speaker, which is unbeatable with powered cabs. powered or not, you will still have to have proper eq to tune the system with.
i'm a fan of yorkville for best bang for the buck.
seems like everybody is making both wood as well as plastic offerings these days as well. You may need an EQ with your powered speakers but they usually sound better with less EQ than a passive system will. My EAW nts sound great with the EQ bypassed and I only use it rooms that need it.

Hmm, so the extra weight of powere cabs isn't a problem when you have to lift them up on the poles?

A SRM450 weights 51 pounds.
A JBL SRX715 passive two way equivalent in specs is 48 pounds.

Not a lot more for two extra power amps......

And running all those AC cables in addition to the audio cables doesn't cause problems? And what about having AC cables running parallel to your audio cables- does that cause noise in the systems?

That's why all professional audio system uses balanced line.
I've run 150' snake along Camlock feeder without noise......

I'm skeptical of the overall advantages of powered cabs, is why I'm asking.

THe disadvantage you say about having to run an AC cord and an XLR conector to a box is compensated by the fact that you don't have to plug (and carry) an amp rack.

Just bought conventional / passive mains and subs because:

1) Readily available on the used market locally. I saw few powered components.

2) We already had two power amps available (but probably need a third as back-up).

3) Weight: In a pinch, I can lift either enclosure into the back of my pickup without dropping a testicle down my trouser leg.

I have no preference either way in terms of performance.

Riis

Haven't read all the posts but no one has mention the issue with powered spkrs and long cable runs. You run into limits you don't with passive spkrs. So you have to consider the largest venue you plan to play and running line level cables that far without signal loss.

Haven't read all the posts but no one has mention the issue with powered spkrs and long cable runs. You run into limits you don't with passive spkrs. So you have to consider the largest venue you plan to play and running line level cables that far without signal loss.

It's the opposite.
There is a lot more signal lost in long speaker cable runs than balanced line level runs.
You can run 200-300 foot snakes without much signal lost ( Mic and level) . Not so true with speaker cables.

That IS one advantage of active speakers ; the speaker cable between the amp and the driver is a few inches long.

Haven't read all the posts but no one has mention the issue with powered spkrs and long cable runs. You run into limits you don't with passive spkrs. So you have to consider the largest venue you plan to play and running line level cables that far without signal loss.

You haven't read all posts and say no-one has mentioned it?

Long cables are no problem if they are balanced, which they should be. Think of a common 30 meter long multi-cable that sends signals both ways between the stage and the mixer. They don't deteriorate the signal. If you feed the signal 10 meters more, there's no difference to talk about. At least I've never noticed any.

Passive PAs are old technology. It use to be that power amps were HEAVY so it made no sense to enclose them in a speaker cab. Now you can buy powered speakers that weigh less than a poweramp did 20 years ago. Back then a peavey cs-400 weighed about 50 pounds,today you can get a JBL prx512 speaker that weighs 40 pounds! For most bar bands powerwed is the best way to go.

Well, "old technology" is no big deal. Otherwise there'd be few people who wanted a real SVT (solid-state Ampegs by definition can't be SVT- "SVT" means "Super Valve Technology):)

My experience, which lead to the questions is that I find it easier to get clean AC at the back of most stages, but not so much at the front. We'll run one heavy drop cord to the front of we need to for the amp rack, but finding enough good clean power right up front for four AC cords instead of only one is a hassle. And running long AC lines is where the voltage drop becomes a problem, not the signal loss in either speaker cables (passive systems) nor the mic cable (actives).

I'm intrigued by the idea of them...

jte

I hardly ever need more than a 25ft extension cord at any place I play. If you use 12 gauge cable you won't see enough voltage drop to matter.

Even Line arrays are getting active.......

Gotta disagree here. Yorkville and EV crush Mackie & JBL offerings IMO.

I love the design and the sound of Yorkville stuff. My only beef with them is the sheer weight and size of their enclosures. Correct me if I'm wrong here because I don't own any, but in all there lines I have yet to find a PA cab that weighs less than 75 lbs. many of them are 82 lbs and up.
have I missed a more svelte line of powered cabs that thy make?

I'm an older, slightly pudgier player, but I can horse an EON up on a pod all by my lonesome.

JKT

the yorkville nx series has a 12 and 1" with 550 watts, bi-amped, at 41 lbs.

You may need an EQ with your powered speakers but they usually sound better with less EQ than a passive system will. My EAW nts sound great with the EQ bypassed and I only use it rooms that need it.
well, perhaps only if the acoustic environment is not an issue.
there would be no difference in the sound of your eaw cabs if the same power and cross overs were in a rack sitting next to them.
however, you do gain an advantage in that ideally the components (power and x-over points and slopes) should be optimized for the speaker enclosures to perform at their greatest potential.

well, perhaps only if the acoustic environment is not an issue.
there would be no difference in the sound of your eaw cabs if the same power and cross overs were in a rack sitting next to them.
however, you do gain an advantage in that ideally the components (power and x-over points and slopes) should be optimized for the speaker enclosures to perform at their greatest potential.
The problem would be knowing how to set up a crossover/processor to get the best results. Some how I think the people who designed the speakers would have a better idea than I do. :)