Hey, all:


My band landed a small two-day outdoor gig for the July 4th weekend. Not a big thing, but certainly a step up for us :). This is going to be the first time we've played outdoors, and also the first with a PA. Up to this point, we've played much smaller indoor venues using our amps only. I'm a total noob when it comes to hooking up to a PA. :atoz:

I have a DI built into my Ashdown MAG 300 (I'm assuming I'll use that as my monitor source). Is that sufficient for going into the board, or should I go for a separate DI box? If so what kind? Anything else I need? Thanks for any guidance you can provide.

Some amps have crappy DI's. The one on my Mesa 400+ sucks. The one on my Mesa Walkabout is awesome. If yours is good, use it. If not, get a box. Is there any way you can test it out before the gig?

How about the other band members - Does anyone of them know anything about PA? By the way, what kind of PA will you use?

I guess you're fine with the amp's DI out, but be sure to check it out before the gig by running the signal into for instance an active monitor. There might be something strange with the signal, like excessive hum/hiss sounds (I get that from my DI out). Also check if the DI out is pre or post eq. I prefer pre eq because I can then change my stage sound without affecting the FOH sound too much.

I don't know your amp and what speakers you use, but if it is a small outdoor gig, you might not even need PA support if your amp is powerful enough and you have enough speaker area. I use my full rig for smaller outdoor gigs, which means 500 watts into 6 x 10" speakers. That's usually enough. I'd like the extra low end a subwoofer would give, though....

Some amps have crappy DI's. The one on my Mesa 400+ sucks. The one on my Mesa Walkabout is awesome. If yours is good, use it. If not, get a box. Is there any way you can test it out before the gig?

How about the other band members - Does anyone of them know anything about PA? By the way, what kind of PA will you use?

I guess you're fine with the amp's DI out, but be sure to check it out before the gig by running the signal into for instance an active monitor. There might be something strange with the signal, like excessive hum/hiss sounds (I get that from my DI out). Also check if the DI out is pre or post eq. I prefer pre eq because I can then change my stage sound without affecting the FOH sound too much.

I don't know your amp and what speakers you use, but if it is a small outdoor gig, you might not even need PA support if your amp is powerful enough and you have enough speaker area. I use my full rig for smaller outdoor gigs, which means 500 watts into 6 x 10" speakers. That's usually enough. I'd like the extra low end a subwoofer would give, though....


The PA is being supplied by the organizer of the event. I suppose it's not mandatory we use it, but it's available. Other band members are very clueless as to how a PA works. I've done some research and know how a PA signal chain is set up, but have no experience in actually doing so. I'm guessing there will be a sound guy there, as it's a public event.

My amp is rated for 300W, but I currently own only a 1x15 (with which I don't enjoy the full head power, as it's a 4 ohm head and I have an 8 ohm cab), so I'm not sure what I have is adequate to go without the PA. The DI in the amp is post-EQ, but I can bypass the EQ. I suppose it would be a good idea to check the signal first. Our drummer owns an active mixer, so I can check the DI signal beforehand.

In the event that the DI from my amp is crappy, are there any recommendations as to a good DI box?

There will probably be a DI on stage to use, especially with PA and soundman provided.

If your Ashdown DI or external DI availability is in question you can certainly buy one...not a bad thing to have. A dirt cheap option is a Whirlwind IMP: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/IMP2/
An ideal option is a Radial JDI, but you'll see a $150 difference: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/JDI/

There will probably be a DI on stage to use, especially with PA and soundman provided.

If your Ashdown DI or external DI availability is in question you can certainly buy one...not a bad thing to have. A dirt cheap option is a Whirlwind IMP: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/IMP2/
An ideal option is a Radial JDI, but you'll see a $150 difference: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/JDI/

I've heard that the Radials are very good. I think I might pick one up.

I dont think you will have to buy anything to play at this gig, if its been organised by somebody and they have hired a pa i dare say there will be somebody there who will know how to use it, with everything you need to go through it.

As for amp size, you dont need to worry if the pa is big enough, your amp will only be used as a monitor for yourself.

If you have any kind of concerns get in touch with the organisers and ask them what size the pa is, and what you need to bring with you.

This comes from the website of the promoters my band uses:

Advice for Soundcheck:

To minimise accidents and injury we cannot have anyone other than band members present in the room during set up and sound checks. Mates, girlfriends, hangers-on must wait elsewhere during this time (there is usually another bar at the venue they can use).



All band members please ensure that all your gear is in good working order and that you have brought all necessary leads, power cables, extension leads and bits of gear that you need.



Guitarists make sure that you have enough plectrums, your guitar should be in tune and you should carry spare strings. Please check that your amp, heads, cables and connectors are safe and working properly a day or two before the gig. If you need to share the equipment of one of the other bands please let us know in advance.



Drummers must have at least two pairs of drumsticks and a drum tuning key. If you are sharing a drumkit please make sure that you bring all your own breakables, i.e. snare drum and stand, kick drum pedal, cymbals and stands, hi-hat and hi-hat stand, throne,

Alternatively make sharing arrangements with other bands in advance, and make sure you know who is using what on the night.



The Sound Check

Make sure all band members stay on stage during your sound check. Don’t wander off while we check the drums, please be patient. Then balance all levels as if you were in a practice session, so that nobody is overpowering anyone else, the best way to do this is to play guitars, bass and drums together.



Play one of your own songs so you will know what to listen for. Send either your singer or a member of the band who has a long lead, out in front of the stage to listen to see if you can hear each individual member.



Make sure that the guitar amps are not overpowering the drums, if they are you won’t hear the drummer when you play and will probably lose track of where you are. Don’t ever rely on monitors to play everything back to you; they’re there primarily for vocalists. In most venues there is no need to pump everything back at the performers at the front of the stage.



If the amps are balanced, make sure all your effects come out at the same volume. Engineers in a bigger venue may ask you to turn up your clean channel for example. There should be no volume difference between clean and overdrive\distortion, just a difference in sound.



Once you have everything balanced, you are ready to sound check. We start with the drums as these can be ‘walled in’ by amplifiers, meaning they barely project out from the stage.



Will drummers please make sure that when we ask them to hit something, i.e. kick, snare, toms that they play it as if they were playing a song. If you hit a drum gently for sound check and then whack them twice as hard when you play properly, your levels on the desk will be completely incorrect; there is not a lot that a sound engineer can do in this case. Hit the drums hard, that’s what they’re there for!



We will then balance the amps through the P.A. and get the balance that you have on stage coming out the front. This should be easy if the amps are equal on stage. We will ask you to go through your effects on guitars and bass to double-check your levels.



Finally we will check the vocals. This is an important part, which often we can’t do properly due to the vocalist. When sound checking a vocal mic, singers should always sing at the volume they will when they perform! An unenthusiastic one-two is no use to us, you must either sing as you would when playing or speak at the volume you will sing at. You can say anything (try a nursery rhyme), but the volume is the essential part, if you whisper in sound check and then proceed to scream down a microphone, your levels will be wrong; this is not the fault of the sound engineer, it is the fault of the vocalist.



We will then ask you to play a song, anything will do, just a song. Please do not spend 5 minutes deciding what song to play; a sound check is behind closed doors. During this time we will set up a typical monitor feed for you, with just some vocals in every monitor, and kick drum, snare and bass guitar in the drummers monitor.



After you have completed your song, please state clearly to the sound engineers what your preferences are for each monitor. We will do our best to feed what you want into each individuals monitor. Drummer’s need their mix just right, so please communicate to us what you need as we appreciate hearing from the back of the stage is difficult when you are surrounded by amps pointing in the opposite direction.



Some pointers:



· If you do not co-operate, there is very little we can do to help you. Please listen to what the sound engineers ask you to do. They will return the favour later when you ask them for monitor mixes.



· Do not, under any circumstances change the volume of anything once you have started playing. The sound engineers cannot read your mind, and may not notice what you have changed. If you have to change an amp level, because you can’t hear it, tell us during sound checks. There is no point trying to battle with each other. Remember, the sound out front is what counts and that is monitored by the sound engineer. It may not sound right to you. If you do change a level on stage, inform us and we will do our best to adapt, although we make no promises once your main set is underway.

This comes from the website of the promoters my band uses:

Advice for Soundcheck:
.......

· Do not, under any circumstances change the volume of anything once you have started playing. The sound engineers cannot read your mind, and may not notice what you have changed. If you have to change an amp level, because you can’t hear it, tell us during sound checks. There is no point trying to battle with each other. Remember, the sound out front is what counts and that is monitored by the sound engineer. It may not sound right to you. If you do change a level on stage, inform us and we will do our best to adapt, although we make no promises once your main set is underway.

:p

I've heard that the Radials are very good. I think I might pick one up.

I use a ProDI,works great for me

Your DI on the Ashdown should be more than adequate for the job.
In a large P.A. situation, your backline is your monitior for the bass - just get the sound person to feed everything you're not hearing clearly through the foldback cab nearest to you, but don't be tempted to have extra bass through there.

In general, the monitors help to keep the levels onstage to a fairly low level, (How low is up to you), so you'll not need to have the backline as loud as when you're playing a small club - it's the P.A. that does the work of putting the sound out to the audience, and you need to quickly get a good working relationship with the sound engineer.
ALWAYS trust his / her judgement, especially if they do it for a living.

Most important - ENJOY!!!!!

A lot of good advice here. Thanks everyone! :)

See http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=444935

Thanks! :)

I use a ProDI,works great for me

If the bass is active, that's fine (it's also the ticket for keys). If the bass is passive, the Pro48 is the better choice, owing to its higher input impedance (less loading of the pickups = better sound from the instrument).

In a large P.A. situation, your backline is your monitior for the bass - just get the sound person to feed everything you're not hearing clearly through the foldback cab nearest to you, but don't be tempted to have extra bass through there.



+1

In a large P.A. situation, your backline is your monitior for the bass - just get the sound person to feed everything you're not hearing clearly through the foldback cab nearest to you, but don't be tempted to have extra bass through there.

+1

My wedges have 8" woofers, yet I never hesitate to give the bassist or drummer the bass or kick if they need more for timing and/or pitch. It messes up the sound in the house less than turning up the bass rig does.

I'm on my way to the first gig right now armed with much more knowledge that I had two weeks ago. Thanks again everyone! :bassist:

Break a leg, mate. Let us know how it goes!

Just got back from the second show. We were led to believe that there were going to be about 50-100 people attending the show. Turned out to be more like 1000 (maybe more). :eek: It was awesome playing in front of that many people. I couldn't wipe the grin off my face while I was up on stage! :D

Setting up was a breeze... I just gave the the soundman the balanced signal from my Sansamp and all was well. Thanks to all of you for your spot-on advice! :bassist:

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter G
I use a ProDI,works great for me


If the bass is active, that's fine (it's also the ticket for keys). If the bass is passive, the Pro48 is the better choice, owing to its higher input impedance (less loading of the pickups = better sound from the instrument).



I had the ProDI, and honestly it isn't any better than a $35 Behringer - I A/B'd it through several FOHs, and it literally didn't sound any better than the Behringer... I returned the ProDI, and bought the JDI MK3, and it definitely was much better than either of those...

If you're not planning on buying a JDI MK3(passive), a J48 or Countryman 85(actives), I'd buy a DI from Audiopile - it'll probably match or exceed Radial's "Pro" series, and considerably less money...



- georgestrings

suscribed

Try very hard to get everyone in or out of the band to leave you alone during the process, so you can think straight, without constant annoying questions. It can be a very frustrating time until your used to the system, and extra questions, even though they may be trying to help, can slow down your thought process, and annoy you even more. Best of luck! It'll be a hard nite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter G
I use a ProDI,works great for me


I had the ProDI, and honestly it isn't any better than a $35 Behringer - I A/B'd it through several FOHs, and it literally didn't sound any better than the Behringer... I returned the ProDI, and bought the JDI MK3, and it definitely was much better than either of those...

If you're not planning on buying a JDI MK3(passive), a J48 or Countryman 85(actives), I'd buy a DI from Audiopile - it'll probably match or exceed Radial's "Pro" series, and considerably less money...

- georgestrings

That's certainly not my experience. When I switched from Behringer DI100s to Radial Pro48s, basses suddenly had balls, and my regular clients' acoustic guitars weren't pieces of crap anymore. (I use the ProDI for keys, and for bass when there's a ground loop with the active DI.) I found the difference between the ProDI and the JDI to be noticeable in an A-B comparison, but I doubt most folks would hear the difference if you used a JDI on one gig and a ProDI on the next.)

Hi Atoz,

I've used the MAG300 DI for recording. No complaints from the sound engineer.
The DI on this head is post EQ. If you plan to use your amp's DI, talk to the sound guy if you can, and ask him how he wants the signal. He may want more highs going to the board and you'll have to live with a different on stage sound. If in doubt, a flat signal might be best.

Good luck and enjoy the gig

Congrats on the gig Atoz. Just for the sake of the thread, if you have an amp that is big enough, you can give a balanced line out from your head/pre. I usually have the sound guy just add a presence on my clean channel, not a lot, just enough to be felt beyond the stage. Bass carries. I have a Ampeg SVP-BSP pre amp and line out from it is great. No complaints. I've even run two lines out from both channels. Clean and dirty.

I've never needed a DI, but I have used them before at the request of the sound guy. As far as operating the PA for yourself, they're pretty basic. There's a master volume and a pre/post volume for each channel and usually some kind of eq knobs for each channel. If you know how to run your amp, you know how to run a PA.

This comes from the website of the promoters my band uses:

Drummers must have at least two pairs of drumsticks and a drum tuning key. If you are sharing a drumkit please make sure that you bring all your own breakables, i.e. snare drum and stand, kick drum pedal, cymbals and stands, hi-hat and hi-hat stand, throneThis must be the Keith Moon clause.


Cool deal yer gig went well, mon. It's fun playing outside!

If you do another larger outdoor event, ask the soundguy if there are enough channels to run a bass DI line and mic line. That way the soundperson can blend the two.

+1 on giving the drummer a separate bass monitor. That way you can keep the bass out of his stage monitor mix - unless he wants it in there. All I want in my stage mon mix is vox with my voc up a little. YMMV

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc50/Ryco56x/LenihanTrio.jpg

Playin' a little outside gig with the youngsters a couple of years ago. Fun in the sun! :D
Runnin' bass, keys (right channel), and vox through my wife's Peavey KB-15.
Little Roland is for keyboard's left channel -- he insists on runnin' stereo. whatever - more roadie for me :atoz: haha

Hi Atoz,

I've used the MAG300 DI for recording. No complaints from the sound engineer.
The DI on this head is post EQ. If you plan to use your amp's DI, talk to the sound guy if you can, and ask him how he wants the signal. He may want more highs going to the board and you'll have to live with a different on stage sound. If in doubt, a flat signal might be best.

Good luck and enjoy the gig

Thanks for the heads-up on the MAG's DI. It's good to know I can use it. In the last couple of weeks, I've acquired a SansAmp BDDI (couldn't beat the price, if you know what I mean :D) and am really enjoying the faux-SVT output I get with it. I ended up using the output from that with my '87 MIJ P for the gig, and it sounded great. :)

Congrats on the gig Atoz. Just for the sake of the thread, if you have an amp that is big enough, you can give a balanced line out from your head/pre. I usually have the sound guy just add a presence on my clean channel, not a lot, just enough to be felt beyond the stage. Bass carries. I have a Ampeg SVP-BSP pre amp and line out from it is great. No complaints. I've even run two lines out from both channels. Clean and dirty.

I've never needed a DI, but I have used them before at the request of the sound guy. As far as operating the PA for yourself, they're pretty basic. There's a master volume and a pre/post volume for each channel and usually some kind of eq knobs for each channel. If you know how to run your amp, you know how to run a PA.

Thanks, Maki. The gig was a lot of fun! :D I had the option of miking my cab at the gig, but I declined. It being my first time playing with a PA, I was nervous about not being able to hear myself through the monitor (it was kind of far from me), so I ran the BDDI into the board, and split off of it into my amp, which I had elevated to my side and slightly behind me. I tweaked the EQ on the amp in a way so I could hear it when the volume was low, but probably wouldn't have sounded great miked. Once we started the soundcheck, I realized that the monitor feed was indeed adequate and they could've miked my amp, but by then it would have been too much trouble. Live and learn...

This must be the Keith Moon clause.


Cool deal yer gig went well, mon. It's fun playing outside!

If you do another larger outdoor event, ask the soundguy if there are enough channels to run a bass DI line and mic line. That way the soundperson can blend the two.

+1 on giving the drummer a separate bass monitor. That way you can keep the bass out of his stage monitor mix - unless he wants it in there. All I want in my stage mon mix is vox with my voc up a little. YMMV

...

Yes, playing outside is fun! :D

As I mentioned above, I could have miked my cab, but did not do so for reasons which in retrospect were a tad irrational. :atoz: I'll do it next time, though.

Our drummer did get his own monitor this time. I think he liked it that way.