At the suggestion of Will C., I am pulling this topic from another thread. Will and I both feel it might benefit some musicians here who do not use ear plugs.

I have done irreparable damage to my ears and I DID use ear plugs. But I'd probably be stone deaf if I hadn't used them. As it is, I have permanent tinnitis. What is that? I'll tell you...it is a permanent high frequency ringing in my ears twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week. It never stops. What I have to do is try to "cover" it up by running an electric fan or always having a TV or CD-player on.

How did it come about? Well I was in a heavy metal band that rehearsed at full volume and played at full volume, so hours and hours of aural assalt added up unrelentingly and insidiously. I'm talking about two Marshall stacks at full tilt and my bass stack at full tilt, plus the drums being pounded at max to compete with all our sonic blasting.

I wore earplugs. I had to or my head would ache. I used Sonic II plugs, the ones that come in the nifty plastic carrying case. Anyway, the others in the band, refused to use plugs. They believed that the plugs were "so NOT cool." Not cool looking. Not cool for blocking out damaging frequencies of sound.

Here's the deal though. High frequencies ( two distorted guitars) damage in the short run, but damage worse if the high levels are sustained over hours. And the damage is permanent. Once you have tinnitis, there is no road back.

In short, if you must play in that kind of environment, use the BEST earplugs you can afford. Cotton just doesn't do the trick. And seriously question the need to rehearse at "eleven" on the Marshalls all the time. Turn that equipment down, for crying out loud! If one musician turns up, then the others have to turn up to be heard. What you get is each one playing at max. For what? So you can be heard a block away?

Take care of your ears. They are a musician's best friends. Jason Oldsted

Every musician should heed Jason's advice. As musicians, our hearing is one of our most important tools. Once it's gone, it's gone.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JasonOldsted:

How did it come about? Well I was in a heavy metal band that rehearsed at full volume and played at full volume, so hours and hours of aural assalt added up unrelentingly and insidiously. I'm talking about two Marshall stacks at full tilt and my bass stack at full tilt, plus the drums being pounded at max to compete with all our sonic blasting.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have also damaged my hearing, from years of playing without ear plugs. I am lucky that my case of tinnitus is very mild, along with a huge dip in my hearing at about 3k.
Obviously, Jason's case was extreme. His band was so loud that he damaged his hearing even though he used ear plugs. The point here is that you should use ear plugs, but they may not save you.

The best advice for any musician is TURN IT DOWN!!! Your band will sound better, your audience will appreciate it, your sound man will appreciate it, and you won't have to live the rest of your life with a high pitched scream inside your head.



------------------
RAC

I too have abused my ears over the years and now I use ear plugs when I am exposed to high volume. I have tried many different kinds and still search for the perfect pair. I've considered going to a hearing aid shop to possibly be fitted for a pair. Has anyone done this? Any advice ?

------------------
the secret of life is enjoying the passage of time

good topic.

I'm the only one in my band that uses ear plugs on a regular basis. My guitarist refuses to wear them until he thinks we sound flawless. Unfortunately, I'm the minority, when I suggest that it's possible to sound tight, even when using ear plugs.

------------------
Fashion compliance, social disease, bid for direction, aiming to please, follow the status quo for the day, never a willing effort to change.-Brother Inferior

I wear custom fitted plugs on a regular basis. I can't think of a more important piece of gear for working (or rehearsing, for that matter) musicians. Consider these two points: 1: *every* time you leave a venue and your ears are ringing you have done *permanent* damage to your hearing. The ringing might go away, but the damage is done. 2: hearing damage is *cumulative*! that's right, you chip away at your hearing piece by piece, just like you would a boulder. When you consider that all of us get such an extreme ammount of joy from music ( I think life would literally be a living hell without it), I can't think why anyone would not want to protect their hearing. I can't urge you enough!

Groove is Everything
Jon Packard
http:\\listen.to/Jon.Packard

also try: www.hearnet.com (http://www.hearnet.com)

I have a pair of the custom molded earplugs and use them all of the time. And not just when I'm playing. They are great when you go to see other bands or are in very loud clubs.

The custom formed ones are very small and fit far inside the ear. They are hardly visible from the outside, and are neutral in color so they handle the "don't look cool" problem.

They do take a little getting used to, but are well worth the money and time to protect yourself.

Jason,
This is one of the most important threads I've seen here. My wife is in charge of the Audiology Department of a major hospital. She has seen downbeat and grammy award winning players who balk at the $125.00 or so that a custom pair of earplugs cost. Tjhe real question is how much is your hearing and your career worth?

Do not go to a hearing aid dealer. Go to an auduilogist and get an "audiogram." This will tell you just where your hearing is now, a baseline, so to speak. Spend the 125 for the ER-15's or ER-25 earplugs and then get your hearing checked yearly.

Additionally, think of your amplifier as a stage monitor. Play at a low volume, let the PA do the rest for the audience. You'll also find that you feel better the next day. Loud sounds also cause your body stress.

BTW, Jason based on your Magazine" thread.
Besides being an "ask The Pro" on this great site I am also the Associate Editor and columnist for Bass Frontiers Magazine (www.bassfrontiers.com). Feel free to email me with your suggestions. Additionally, many of our interviews are done by fans who submit them for publication. So wew are open to your suggestions and committment to seeing these artists profiled

When I was a full-time musician, my mother was always after me to make sure I wasn't going deaf. What she didn't understand was that I was in a band that was really more interested in the sound off the front of the stage than on it. We actually had the sound levels reasonable on stage, and let the P.A. handle the real work in front of us. It wasn't quiet on stage, by any means, but we weren't cranked; we could actually talk to each other loudly during songs (usually we called each other names and ran off). One guitarist we had insisted on blasting his amp, so his cabinet was turned to the wall. I got in the habit of wearing one Sonic II in my left ear; I was on the far right of the stage, and could never hear the backup vocals. Putting the earplug in helped me hear the stage monitor, and it blocked the immediate volume of the amps. In the end, I'm glad I did it (my wife stills claims I'm deaf, but...); I never heard our lead player live in over a year (which wasn't always a bad thing http://www.talkbass.com/ubb/eek.gif ), but I've never had the kinds of problems I hear from others. Everyone has said the same thing I'll say; put your ego aside, and take care of your hearing. It's a bigger tool than any guitar will ever be.

What I have heared about the custom fitted earplugs is that they don't kill the sound, they just take it down a few notches.Is this correct? I am really concerned about my hearing. I play with a jam band, so I have to HEAR everything perfectly. The little foam ones make that impossibe. So right now, I'm not protecting my ears at all. Any info on custom plugs would be nice.

Mike D

are the custom ones the only ones worth using? I dont want a false sense of security. Which ones are recommended for which application?

NB I am going off line till next Friday soon so I will bookmarh this url. Thanks in anticipation.

------------------
Say something clever and someone steals it

Chris

The custom plugs *do* sound great. They were designed to attenuate sound evenly accross the entire freq spectrum. Do they succeed? A qualified yes. There is a *bit* (I stress, a little bit) of high end loss, but I soundcheck without my plugs, then put them in and it doesn't bother me. A nice side benefit is that I usually end up hearing the bass better!

Groove is Everything
Jon Packard http://listen.to/Jon.Packard

First off, if you're NOT playing with plugs, you should forego your next gear purchase and get. Yes, us musicians do a great job at pleasing people's ear, but we do a better job at damaging them.

Nearly 99% of hearing aid stores offer "Musician's Plugs" or "Filtered Ear Attenuators". They are typically offerred in a 9, 15, or 25db cut. That means they cut 9, 15, or 25 decibels off of the sound your ears pickup. The 25db are comparable to sticking your fingers inside your ear REALLY tight. If you're playing loud clubs, 25 would probably be the way to go, but 15s (IMO) are more realistic to wear.

Yes, you can buy off the shelf plugs, but getting custom fit is the way to go. The audiologist puts a little cottom ball with a stings tied to it (no jokes here) into your ear. They them fill it with a squirt of goop (usually smells like bubble gum) into your ear so it seems like you are underwater. It takes a few minutes to set and then your involvement is complete.

My ear canals are pretty long, so I cut a tiny bit of the ends off to make them more comfy. Custom plugs take a LONG time to get used to, but I find the sound is more enjoyable (especially, being a bass player) because that extra "noise" is cut off the top.

The circuitry is swappable, so you can exchange b/w 9, 15, and 25s depending upon your application.

Also, if you want to get fancy, you can use these impressions to make in-ear monitors (which I don't like) or a customized eq setting for what you want to hear.

Sorry for the ramble, but you can either play with plugs now or lose your hearing. You decide which is important.


[This message has been edited by funkastorious (edited July 30, 2000).]

This is a great topic. I'm suprised it hasn't come up before.

I was considering buying custom made plugs, (I use foam ones now) but now I'm sold.

Anybody who dosen't wear plugs is an idiot!

Yes I do mean to insult people, if you love music so much, why wreck your most important tool.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CS:
Mike D

are the custom ones the only ones worth using? I dont want a false sense of security. Which ones are recommended for which application?


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Chris,
without a doubt. And Funkastorius is right on about the 15 and 25 db cut range. The plugs are made by Entomitic Research. They are probably available at either hearing aid dealers or audiologists. I would go to the audiologist. hearing aid dealers are licensed to sell hearing aids. Audiologists have either a Masters or Doctorate in diagnosing hearing/noise related problems.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, get an audiogram to see where your hearing is NOW. Every year get it checked so you can see if you are doing any damage to your hearing.

Just found this thread tonight. Good food for thought.

I have some hearing loss(no idea how much) from my teen years playing in a garage with no ear protection, and I recently also had a drummer who had no volume control(he's no longer with us).

I use foam plugs occasionally, but it sounds as if I need to check into the custom filters. Are they electronic or something?

I have lost some high frequencies, I can no longer hear the high pitched squeal of a TV set or flourescent lighting - what is that, around 15khz?

------------------
check out my basses on my gear page! http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/robson/1174/music/gear.html

the fabric of reality is woven from the threads of our dreams...
bill longshort

Everybody has given great advice here. I've been using the cheapo foam plugs or wadded up paper when the volume gets hairy but I ought to look into some custom jobbies. Pete Townshend of The Who, one of the foremost hearing-impaired musicians around, has said that he believes his hearing loss was caused more by high-volume headphone usage than by the Who's (in)famously loud shows. Since you can't
wear earplugs with headphones, try to keep the volume down! Also, I seem to remember reading something about tinnitus being related to chronic strain of muscles in the head and neck, and improving with osteopathic or cranio-sacral therapy as well as other more holistic, hands-on approaches. I've also seen a pamphlet on various nutritional treatments for tinnitus. That's not to say we shouldn't protect our ears-but maybe there can are some effective alternative treatments out there. Anybody else heard about these?

To Winston, it is odd that you mentioned that tinnitis may be related to head and neck strain. When I was in those heavy metal bands, I did used to bang my head up and down as was so fashionable back then. I don't know if anybody does it anymore. But back then, the cool thing was to lean over your bass or guitar and jerk your head up and down to make your hair fly or twirl your head, so your hair would go in a circle ala Sepultura. Sometimes the next day, my neck would ache and be stiff. Well now, years later, my neck still bothers me often. I bet it was that supercool "head banging", but I also believe it was the high volume levels we endured. Also I was find of and continue to be fond of playing a walkman at high volume and I've read that is very damaging. Jason Oldsted

If you play in a band where you have to hear everything, try using wadded up toilet paper instead of earplugs. They dampen the sound but don't kill it. I use earplugs when I play bass, but I also play trumpet in a ska band and can't where them when I play it. It makes me sound like i'm playing a kazoo and I can't tell the volume I'm playing at. Playing with toilet paper in my ears works perfect though. The downside though, is that I am sure I am still getting some damage done to my ears, but its a lot better than wearing nothing at all.

I went to a audiologist and had custom fit ones made it was the best thing that I have done, not only for playing but for going out to clubs and hearing other bands.
I highly recommend it.

Mike D thanks for the reply sorry I did not see this earlier
I have checked my plugs and they are 25's. I will look into custom plugs.

Bump!

Will C.:cool:

The only non-custom plugs I found with a good sound and high protection are Hearos (30dB cut) http://www.hearos.com
I found you need some time to adjust to wearing them - but now they feel so comfortable that I can actually wear them all day long - and I alway wear them at rehearsal, gigs, at concerts and in loud clubs/discos.
But I agree, the best solution are custom-made plugs, if you can afford them!

Earplugs is mainly a habit thing, you gotta get used to them. I have tinnitus and I always wear plugs at rehearsal, live, at loud pubs and at concerts. I cannot stress enough how important it is to protect ones hearing, because tinnitus is something I dont wish my worst enemy to have. It is very annoying and psychologically painful sometimes. Oh well enough of myself feeling sorry for myself.. If you dont wear plugs you will regret it one day, if you think it looks uncool, well how cool is it not to hear ones children talk when you are becoming a parent. Not so cool. Oh well hope I made my point clear. Wear plugs! It is strange not everyone wear plugs when they are playing loud.. well its really their choice. But I have seen a slight change in plug use nowadays, more and more ppl use it at concerts and discos and such. Great!

Hear ya!

First of all: this is a great thread! Another good example of how valuable these forums can be.

Second: I just read something on tinnitus the other day and was surprised to find that, among other things, diet and lifestyle can greatly increase your chances of getting it. Some of the things to avoid: sodium, caffiene, alcohol, tobacco. Hhhhmmmm ..... musicians AVOIDING these? Seems ironic, doesn't it?

I suppose that most things, taken in moderation, are less damaging, but the cumulative effect is what does it.

So, take care of yourselves (especially hearing), because what kind of musicians would we be without hearing?

Originally posted by jondiener
Second: I just read something on tinnitus the other day and was surprised to find that, among other things, diet and lifestyle can greatly increase your chances of getting it. Some of the things to avoid: sodium, caffiene, alcohol, tobacco. Hhhhmmmm ..... musicians AVOIDING these? Seems ironic, doesn't it?



Well I think they meant that those things, alcohol, caffein and such may make the symptoms of it worse. I can agree to that, but I have a hard time believing that drinking coffe increases the risk off tinnitus. The lifestyle is more interesting, if one often go to loud concerts in that case the lifestyle might be a problem if not wearing plugs.. but do they mean that for instance a cricket player would have an increased risk off tinnitus.. oh well enough on that.
But drinking alcohol might increase the risk of hearing damage since one perhaps doesnt care if the music is louder than what is healthy ;) But that is a side effect erhhmm.. well take care and dont forget to wear plugs next time you have a cup of coffee :)

I think all new members should read this post before being granted membership. As a physician, i cant stress the importance of hearing protection enough. Especially for the younger players, start NOW!!!! For some, its too late for you only have your hearing once. When its gone GAME OVER!!!!

My first post on this thread included the sentiment that I was sorry about Jason's condition and I was. However by a freak of coincidence I suffered from tinnitus and complete deafness in just my left ear from Thursday until this evening. My experience has made me understand that I didn't. I played yesterday and its like playing in a tunnel. I havent slept well for 4 nights because of a constant high pitched whine with white noise mixed in.
It was not caused by excess db's but by.... well I wont elaborate before teatime.

If you play loud and your ears ring wear plugs because the alternative is well it drives you nuts.

Jason I am truly sorry about your condition and I know partly what you are going through

Originally posted by Mesa Man
Originally posted by jondiener
Second: I just read something on tinnitus the other day and was surprised to find that, among other things, diet and lifestyle can greatly increase your chances of getting it. Some of the things to avoid: sodium, caffiene, alcohol, tobacco. Hhhhmmmm ..... musicians AVOIDING these? Seems ironic, doesn't it?



Well I think they meant that those things, alcohol, caffein and such may make the symptoms of it worse. I can agree to that, but I have a hard time believing that drinking coffe increases the risk off tinnitus. )

You're exactly right! I never meant to imply that those things can actually cause tinnitus, although reading it now, that's what it sounds like. What I meant was: those things can aggrevate the symptoms.

What's the matter, you can't read my mind? ;-)

Well I tried to read your mind, but I couldnt understand a thing about what I read ;) Alcohol, I do know, can make the syptoms worse.. especially when you try to go to sleep with a power drill inside your head :)

Take it from all of us that suffer from tinnitus, wear plugs for your own sake. That goes for all of you out there.

Is it me or is everyone getting old?! lol :D

We have that problem of Volume, we have 4 hr band practices once a fortnight and i am starting to get the ringin. I tried plugs but they fall out with all the jumping around and head banging. any suggestions and don't say "wear ear muffs!" lolol

Merls

Real simple here, see your doctor or a professional audiologist to be fitted with them. An ENT (ear, nose and throat) physician helped me with mine.

Originally posted by merlin

Is it me or is everyone getting old?! lol :D

It's you, Merls.:D



We have that problem of Volume, we have 4 hr band practices once a fortnight and i am starting to get the ringin. I tried plugs but they fall out with all the jumping around and head banging. any suggestions and don't say "wear ear muffs!" lolol

Merls

Make everyone lower their volume:rolleyes:

Will C.:cool:

Headphones at high volume are really bad for you. Sound intensity decreases by the square of the distance, so if you are twice as far from the source the intensity becomes one quarter. With headphones the distance is minimal, so the sound intensity does not decrease very much. So you should be especially careful when listening to music through headphones.

I have some butt ugly bright orange HEAROS earplugs, and actually use them. Whenever I went to a practice studio it would be pretty tight quarters with a Marshall half stack, a Roland JC 160, myself, and an insanely loud drummer. So I sacrificed a little "coolness" for my hearing.

BTW - Hearos also come in 'human skin' color...

Originally posted by Big Wheel
Originally posted by merlin

Is it me or is everyone getting old?! lol :D

It's you, Merls.:D



Make everyone lower their volume:rolleyes:

Will C.:cool:

lower their volume. sure sure :rolleyes: Heavy Metal below the 100Db level.

The heavy metal band I damaged my hearing playing for rehearsed at full volume in close quarters. My appeals to them to turn down a tad fell on "deaf" ears literally and figuratively. It seems that the "loud" part of that music is what makes the vibe. If you turn down for rehearsals you lose the vibe, the aggression, the spirit of the music. It is especially hard to get a heavy metal drummer to turn down the volume. If he is pounding away hard, you HAVE to turn up or you can't be heard above him.

I did wear Hearos and looked like a dork for it. My image was further damaged as I was older than the parents of everyone in the band! The Hearos helped only marginally. They may not have saved me from the constant high pitched ring I now hear day and night, but they did make it possible to rehearse two and three hours at a time without suffering severe migraine headaches.

Oddly enough, for me, the most painful sound I had to endure was not the screeming distorted and tuned down guitars, it was the snare drum. Honestly at times, I thought my head would split, our drummer banged that snare so hard and loud and I always stood near him.

I wish I had spent money on custom ear plugs instead of some of the fancy effects pedals I bought, but never used because our lead guitarist wanted all the special effects for himself.

Jason Oldsted

Hey Mr Oldstead, :D
I fully agree with you. Its not always the guitars but the meathead of a drummer. Especially with a tight sharp snare. How much does it cost for custom made plugs? If I can't afford them and have to go for manufactured ones what should i look for. Bear in mind I live in Ozzie land (Australia) so a general description would prob be best.

Cheers.
Merls

Thought I just might add this link while I can remember it:

http://www.hearnet.com/

Bump!

Back by popular demand.

Will C.:cool:

I just wish to join the croud, emphasising the importance of this topic. You may get tinnitus different ways, but once got it you wish you'd protected yourself.

Moderators and "paul(administrator)": I fell this topic is of such importance, that a summary ought to be posted permanently. Right below "Posting rules...", with an Alert ikon.

Man, this tweet i've got (a clear A''') keeps me awake! It's in the way for just any living - and the audiologists call it "mild"! :confused: :(

**rule**:
PLUG IN = THE (custom) PLUGS in your ears, THEN the lead to the amp.

(And this time I'm right. ;) )

[Edited by Suburban on 01-30-2001 at 02:10 AM]

I just wanna thank you all for this great thread.
But one thing must be pointed out : make your band mates read this thread !
I've just emailed some URLs to my guitarist and drummer.
The drummer is already aware of that sort of things but the guitarist dude is ... a guitarist dude so he can't really understand everything ;) ...
Every rehearsal we have to tell him to turn it down.

Bump.

I am looking for some decent ear plugs because the foamies keep popping out of my left ear.

Thought this was ear plug thread was worth bumping. I think I've read about a dozen ear plug / hearing loss threads today.

If they are moulded to your ear they will not fall out... simple...

The foam ones are a waste of time. you lose all sence of volume. If you need to get a vocal cue from your singer then your screwed....the list goes on.....

I have just ordered a pair of 25dB custom made plugs.

I need them more for the fact that i am also a pro DJ (thats how a 17 year old can afford 2 grands worth of kit :p ) In one club i DJ in the sound system is facing me!!! I need customs because i need to be able to hear my headphones, what i am saying on the mic...and of course the numbers i obtain from vairous members of the female race :P

Moreale of the story....Plugs for life, hearing for life.... (hey do you think i could get away with testing them in a chemistry lecture??)

I'm planning on having some custom-made ear plugs. I realized that I already have a very very minor case of tinnitis. I can hear at late at night. I always thought that was just the way how people are.

I have a friend who got some custom plugs that have removeable filters. The ear plugs cost $120 and the filters cost about $60. So you can get one set of plugs and mix-n-match the filters (-10, -15, -25 db).

Cool stuff. Expensive though...but worth it, I think.

Granny,

Did you see this one?
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45644&highlight=earplugs

http://www.etymotic.com/musicians/ Has the kinds you've described and the kind I reviewed in the penultimate post of the thread I liked to above. I've stood 20 paces from the stage through a Motorhead & Morbid Angel show with those and didn't suffer the least bit of hearing fatigue or ringing. And you can hear everything clearly. Maybe the best money I ever spent.

Your right about the switchable filters...the Dr at the store sed that he would change the filters for free if i find i need different levels........

I may just get a a set of -15dB filters as well so i can use them in clubs etc..

Great topic! I own not one but TWO pairs of ER-20s, you know the "musicians hi-fi earplug" they sell in music stores for $15 - the best gear aquisition I have made so far.

I play in very loud bands, and in my cover band we rehearse in small concrete space with a loud drummer. My other guitarist(in his mid-30s) is always talking about how his ears hurt and he can't hear anything because "the space sucks". I've told him to get earplugs, now he has a pair but doesen't use em because "they suck" too. :confused:

I probably should look into custom fitted plugs next. I love plugs - earplugs that is! ;)

Hearing Protection
Just wondering what others use for hearing protection when necessary? I have been useing Sonic II's which are much better than the foam thingy's but still muffle the sound substantially. I am hoping to find a better alternative?





Almost Always
My past experience I used them always. I used to work with a really extra loud guitarist. He would not turn down. Now that he is gone I haven't had to use them at practice, but might when we play out, and last nights practice got a little loud and I was getting ready to put them in. If you are wondering whether you should or not, The reason my old guitarist had to play so loud was due to hearing damage from from "playing so loud"!!!! I use Sonic IIs. You can find them at most music stores. They are much better than the foam things. I have heard you can get custom "professional" ones that cost hundreds of dollars but work like hearing aids or something. USE THEM !!!! if you even think you might be damaging your hearing.

Originally posted by bizzaro
I have heard you can get custom "professional" ones that cost hundreds of dollars but work like hearing aids or something.

Custom plugs are extremely seldom 'poor' if you buy them from a good doctor.

Incase anyone is wondering what causes the differences with different plugs, I'll try to explain what I have understood: The differences between foam plugs, hi-fi plugs and custom plugs are caused by different damping response(curve). The cheap foam ones tend to dampen the high frequences more than lows, and sound can be mushy.

Now, the hi-fi plugs dampen the frequences on more flatter curve, eg. almost even. Why they sound odd is because ear tunnel has natural dampening on certain frequences, around 4Khz if I recall correctly.

Custom plugs sound the best because they are made realizing this fact and have similar dampening curve than natural ear, only that the level is much lesser.

Man, I think I read every single earplug thread on Talkbass. Funny, I've received a couple of compliments for wearing earplugs during my auditions - but they always came from other guitarists who weren't wearing them! Don't they care about their health?


Anyways, went to my doctor who will recommend me to an ear specialist. I may shop around when it comes time to buy the actual custom plugs but I want to get my ears checked out first by a professional.


Everytime I come away from an audition without ringing, I feel good. Real good.

Originally posted by rabid_granny
I'm planning on having some custom-made ear plugs. I realized that I already have a very very minor case of tinnitis. I can hear at late at night. I always thought that was just the way how people are.

I have a friend who got some custom plugs that have removeable filters. The ear plugs cost $120 and the filters cost about $60. So you can get one set of plugs and mix-n-match the filters (-10, -15, -25 db).

Cool stuff. Expensive though...but worth it, I think.

I have these. It's weird, they squirt foam into your ear and it hardens after a few minutes. I have the -15db, I want the next stronger. They are very comfortable, much more so than foam earplugs. Much less expensive than hearing aids.

I love my ER-15's. They just make everything sound nicer, they take the edge off the extreme transients from the snare and cymbals, very slightly reduce the extreme high end, and make the whole mix so much quieter. If you can afford $1000 for a bass & amp, then surely you can afford $100 so you can still hear it in 20 years time. (Or alternatively be able to enjoy life without a piercing whistle following you around everywhere).

If you don't have earplugs, please at least think about getting some. I dread to think what damage has been done to my bandmates from a Mackie M1400i on the limit into two Acme Low-B2's, and all because the drummer can't play a normal (i.e. quieter) volumes.

Alex

Originally posted by bizzaro
Hearing Protection
Just wondering what others use for hearing protection when necessary? I have been useing Sonic II's which are much better than the foam thingy's but still muffle the sound substantially. I am hoping to find a better alternative?

Here (http://www.michaeldimin.com/estore.htm) is a better alternative.

Mike

I second Pacman's assertion that you hear the bass better with ear plugs. I find they take out any boominess in the room so I hear the tone better. Especially important for fretless playing. I got the real deal, the individually moulded plugs some time ago, and they do not get in the way of playing or singing.

I have so far gotten away with the occasional high-pitched tone in one of my ears, but so far it has gone away after a minute or two. It's probably not even connected with music, just a cold or something. I hope. I'm scared to death of getting a bad case of tinnitus, I'm really sorry for those who have to live with that.

It's so easy to protect yourself. Just say "whatever" to those who think it's un-cool, but do use ear protection if you play loud (i.e. any time there's a drummer in the band...).

Mike,
Are you familiar with Sonic II's? They are not the foamy's, But look similar to what yor are offering in that it is an ear plug with a mechanical device inside to reduce the harmful frequencies. And about the same price. Do you consider yours superior to Sonic II's?

http://www.northsafety.com/pluguse.htm

Go to the bottom of the page for The Sonics.

And a little more info on them: http://home.carolina.rr.com/dweeb/SonicSoundFilters.html

I had Sonic II's like 20 years ago. Ted Nugent used to be their spokesman. I cannot really remember how effective they are. The website that you mention states The Sonic Sound Filters provide about 6dB of attenuation below 1kHz, and then ramp up to about 24dB at 8kHz. The ER-20's have a virtually flat response. I think that a flat response will more mimic your ears natural hearing than something like the Sonic II's

The EP's that I sell are made by etymotic research. ER's founder Meade Killian is the guy who invented the custom made filters. The same technology that is used in the custom filters are used in the ready fit ones that I sell. You might see brand names attached to the custom filters - (Westone) is the big one. All Westone does is make the earmold. They then just fit the ER filters into the mold. ER is really the tech leader in the field. They are also instrumental in the development of compression for hearing aids and other cool stuff.

Bizzaro, I would say to most people buy mine or invest in both and see which is better, it's a small investment into saving your hearing. But I notice that you are a Vermonter. A state rife with frugality (some might call them cheapskates), but as a former Vermont resident myself, I KNOW that one only really needs 2 pair of underwear to survive.

Mike

ps. as a resident of New York now, I own lots of underwear, not to mention socks

As a design engineer for a hearing aid manufacturer I would just like to say SPEND THE MONEY ON PROTECTING YOUR HEARING. The most expensive hearing aid on the planet does NOT even come close to matching the quality of your own ears. (I've tested £3000 instruments with all the gadgets and fancy digital doodahs and they're NOT and NEVER will be as good as the real thing.)

Go to an Audiologist get your hearing checked and if you are going to use earplugs over any length of time, get a set of ER's. I've had a set for a few years now and like a few others I find I can actually hear the drums and bass BETTER with them in.

What's the point of spending thousands of Pounds/Euros/Dollars on your bass gear if you end up not being able to hear and appreciate it.

As for being cool, if anyone laughs at you, tell them to sod off and we'll see who's laughing in a few years time.

And now a quote from one of the tame Audiologists from the office next door.:D

"I'm fed up talking to musicians with 'ringing' in there ears. Tinnitus can't be 'fixed' it can only be prevented. Having said that, all you cool dude musos are keeping me in a job so keep up the good work suckers."
Mike Osbourne MSc, BAAS.

He's a nice guy really, he just hasn't had enough coffee yet...:D

Mike thanks for your prompt response. I have always used protection and will definatley give the ER 20's a try. Like you said us Vermonters are frugal (cheap). Got no need to be spending on things I already got,....... as it were!! Thanks for your insight.

Got to be off to work...................where did I put that other pair of underwear;)

Well, I have just bought a second round of ER-20s from Mike Dimin(thanks for the help Mike!) for myself and the rest of the band.

We had been trying the foam ones, but for music they suck. However ,as a biker too, I always wear foam earplugs when I'm out on the bike. Wind noise round your lid at 60mph can hit 105dB!!! On the bike frequency response isn't my main issue, so I use 3M disposable foam ones (I've just bought new tapered ones, can't remember the make - got the Best Buy in 'Ride' magazine)


When we started using the ER-20s we found a huge difference in sound clarity. Everything became clearer - and no ringing! One thing we all noticed was a squeak we hadn't heard before - turns out it was time for the studio owner to lube the bass pedal!!!!


I reckon I'll go for customer fit plugs sometime this year - sadly over here they are about £140 ($200) - so finding the 'disposable' income might take a few months. However, I think to preserve your hearing, it'd be a bargain at double that!

Quote from Johnny BoomBoom
One thing we all noticed was a squeak we hadn't heard before - turns out it was time for the studio owner to lube the bass pedal!!!!
:D Reminds me of that VW advert here in the UK

Deafness and tinnitus run in my family, so I always play with either pro-plugs (the vented clear plastic ones - originally designed for surfers). These are great in that they mainly cut the higher frequencies. However I now do more singing, so I've just been using tissues lately as I can hear myself better, and I never seem to suffer with any more than the usual mild tinnitus I have anyway. Think I'll check out those ER-20s now!

You have my every sympathy Jason. In the UK there is a society that can give further info and help - it can be very isolating.

Red wine will almost always give me raging tinnitus - but it's different from my usual tinnitus in that it's usually a very loud more pure note, and it goes away again thankfully!

Originally posted by Bassbarbie

:D Reminds me of that VW advert here in the UK


Red wine will almost always give me raging tinnitus - but it's different from my usual tinnitus in that it's usually a very loud more pure note, and it goes away again thankfully!


Yeah - with the squeahy sign!:D


Hmm, it's not my ears that have a problem with red wine, just my head - usually the next day.......;)

I've been looking for them, over here, but even with postage, it still works out cheaper to get them from Mike Dimin's web store!

Originally posted by Johnny BoomBoom
I reckon I'll go for customer fit plugs sometime this year - sadly over here they are about £140 ($200) - so finding the 'disposable' income might take a few months. However, I think to preserve your hearing, it'd be a bargain at double that!

I'm going to get custom fit plugs as soon as I have the money (read: next student loan cheque) I just need to find somewhere over here that I can get it done.
I've thought about going to my GP and asking them to refer me to an audiologist, so I can get them fitted and have my hearing checked, I just haven't yet.

But does anyone know anywhere in Scotland that does that, so I don't have to bother my GP?

Try Clements & Osbourne in Glasgow. Greg (Clements) used to work for the people I work for.(Oticon) and Michael (Osbourne) still does, his mother is the other half of the firm. Keep it in the family eh!.

236 Ayr Rd, Newton Mearns. 0141 616 2624.
536 Crow Rd, Glasgow. 0141 954 6030.

You could try Stephen Fairfield at House of Hearing, 2 Stafford St, Edinburgh 0131 220 1220
I'm not entirely sure they do them though.

I'm spoiled as I get my hearing checked regularly for free and we take our own impressions and make our own custom moulds.

Originally posted by JMX
The only non-custom plugs I found with a good sound and high protection are Hearos (30dB cut) http://www.hearos.com
I found you need some time to adjust to wearing them - but now they feel so comfortable that I can actually wear them all day long - and I alway wear them at rehearsal, gigs, at concerts and in loud clubs/discos.
But I agree, the best solution are custom-made plugs, if you can afford them!

The "211 High Fidelity HEAROS - $14.99" are exactly the same as mine. They buy them from ER and repackage them. They sell them for 14.99 + 5.95 s/h for a whopping total of 20.90.

Mine are $10.00 and shipping is as little as $1.50 ($4.75 for Priority Mail with delivery confirmation). You can get them delivered to your door for less than the purchase price of getting them from hearos. Fact is you can 2 pair from me, shipping included for $22.90 ($24.75 for Priority Mail w/ delivery confirmation - US only). Even Bizarro would dig that

Mike

i got some hearos for christmas, and although i haven't tried them in a loud situation yet they seem to work great - the frequency of my voice seems to be kept at the highest volume, which is just what i need. my guitarist isn't a marshall-blaster, it's the cymbals that always get to me.

Thanks for all the info, especially the doctors in the house. I had no idea that custom fitted ones even existed. I'm going to see someone tomorrow about getting some. I don't care about the cost, I'm sick of staying awake all night because of that damn ringing after shows. :rolleyes:

Great thread, possibly the most important I've read so far...

ok, just used mine today in the studio putting bass on a friend's solo recordings. she had to turn up her guitar loud to get a good tube overdrive sound happening, so i turned up and stuck in the plugs. the tone didn't sound as good, but i could better hear the nuances of her playing, and mine, so they definitely helped me synch up to her better. and they totally take the edge off cymbals. what a relief.

i have the feeling i won't want to wear them at gigs, though, as the volume gives me energy.

Originally posted by dancehallclasher
i have the feeling i won't want to wear them at gigs, though, as the volume gives me energy.

In that case, I have a feeling that the volume will also give you tinnitus.

Originally posted by dancehallclasher

i have the feeling i won't want to wear them at gigs, though, as the volume gives me energy.

How much energy will you have to get out of bed every morning with a constant ringing in your ears. How much energy will you have to even want to get your bass out of the case when a ceasless ringing in your ears saps your energy. Tinnitus has caused people to commit suicide.

finally, how much energy with the volume give you when you can't hear a damn thing.

I think you currently suffer from YOMIC - Young Men's Immortality Complex. Let's hope 10 years from now that is all you still suffer from

Mike

It's this sorta thing that makes me glad I don't play really loud music (and have no intention of doing so).

They arrived over a week ago, and tonight was my first chance to try them in a high volume situation.

Very excellent ! They work just as promised.

With shipping and exchange rate, mine were pricey but well worth it. Ironically my drummer (who forever borrowed earplugs off me) showed up to our last rehearsal with a pair that looked very similar to the ER-20s but at a fraction of the price. Bottom line though is that those just weren't the same ... they were more of an ER-20 made totally of foam. They still gave you the dead sound of foamies.

The ER-20s are nothing fancy as far as materials or design goes, but they do work. Bonus is that they came with a neat little plastic pouch to store them in, and with a little chain so you can keep them on your belt or keychain. I recommend getting the string accessory so you don't lose them.

http://www.etymotic.com/images/img/er20-case-redcord.jpg

You can hear your own voice really well - they make you feel like your head is totally sealed off - yet as advertised you can hear all sounds and tones quite clearly. I'd almost say they don't attenuate enough but maybe that's just my perception after years of being used to foamies, and I could also have inserted them more deeply.

It really sounds like a whole new world now. After a night in a small and loud bar, then gigging right next to a VERY loud drummer, I had no trouble hearing at a quieter jazz jam party later in the evening and now at home I have no ear fatigue or hissing/ringing.

Monday will be the true test when I face a triple-bill of Today Is The Day, Morbid Angel, and Motorhead from 20 paces.

Great work Entymotic ! http://www.etymotic.com/musicians/er20morec.html


Edit Jan 9, 2003 :

The Motorhead show was still loud & clear, in fact so much so that I was worried, but afterwards I had no ringing/hissing and no hearing fatigue.

See this thread for more on "Musician's Ear Plugs".

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45644&highlight=entymotic

Originally posted by Mike Dimin
I think you currently suffer from YOMIC - Young Men's Immortality Complex. Let's hope 10 years from now that is all you still suffer from

i beg your pardon. did i say that i didn't think high volume music could ever have an adverse effect on me? no. i fully recognize the risks. i was merely stating a fact. do i like that fact? no.

thanks for your diagnosis anyway, doc.

I don't know if you can really call it a risk. It seems more like it's inevitable that you will get permanent hearing loss at today's volume standards.

And it really really really sucks.

Originally posted by dancehallclasher

i fully recognize the risks.

On what basis to you "fully recognize the risks"- From heresay, from reading posts on talkbass or watching VH1 stories on Pete Townsend. Unless you've experienced it, you just don't know.

I also know that I will never change your mind, so what the hell, don't where 'em, embrace the volume, dig the energy - just don't complain when everything that everyone said here comes to pass. Don't complain when the ringing in your ears makes you think of taking your own life.

read this (http://pub137.ezboard.com/ftinnituscommunitymessageboardfrm8.showMessage?top icID=472.topic)

i never even said i wasn't going to wear them! i was assessing their pros and cons, and that was a con. it does not mean that i won't live with that con. i am obviously interested in protecting my hearing, since i got them in the first place.

Earplugs take a while to get used to. I didn't like them the first time I tried playing with them but now I can't stand playing without them.

I think if you wear them enough in practice, you will feel comfortable enough to wear them while gigging.

Bump. Still doing research on earplugs. My appointment with the audiologist is on February 12.

Here is some interesting information for people:

http://www.locationsound.com/psreport2/hearing2.html

Table with OSHA sound level criteria
Daily Duration (hours) --> DB
8 --> 90
6 --> 92
4 --> 95
3 --> 97
2 --> 100
1.5 --> 102
1 --> 105
.5 --> 110
.25 --> 115

I asked about my combo (200w 15") and the Yorkville rep said it can pump out about 90db.

Just some more information to think about...

I've spent a lot of time during the last 6 months trying to get used to those foam ear plugs. I'll admit they work great if you're in the crowd but they're crap while I'm playing.

I'll even go as far as to say that they may cut everything from 200HZ up, but they BOOST everything from 200HZ down. This is probably not correct scientifically but that's what is sounds like to me.

I've tried weraring them halfway in, all the way in, cutting a little bit off here and there, everything imaginable, but to no avail. The reason I precevered is because I've had people tell me that the moulded ones arent any better. But now that I think of it, they're all sound engineers and like I said, the foam ones work well when you're in the crowd.

You guys have convinced me to ge get a hearing check and some decent plugs. I reckon I can handle the jabs better if I can hear em!

Hmmm....this is a great thread...I've never thought about hearing loss...or ear plugs...I don't play in very loud situations, nor do I play loud music, but this is still valuble information for any serious musician who wants to gig. My home stereo peaks at 10 db I think....but I never drive it that high because my speakers will probably pop at 0 db(my amp is more powerful than the speakers can support) I wear headphones a lot when I practice late at night. Granted I just got an ABG and I won't be playing electric much late at night, often times I'll have my headphones(really nice koss pro studio monitoring headphones) on for hours and hours and hours at a time and when I take them off my ears definatly feel different. I couldn't say decibel-wise how loud my headphones are, but I could imagine that since they are right on my head, db levels-> ear damage ratios would translate differently than say my amp or my stereo.

I'm only 17, so I'm sure I have enough time to make the right choice about ear plugs....I'm reminded of a drummer friend of mine, who always wore earplugs when he played, even though people made fun of him for it, he didn't care, his ears were paramount over peoples mis-conceptions.

Well, I'm back from my appointment with the ear specialist. I was expecting some permanent hearing loss and well, I have some permanent hearing loss. Fortunately, it's not that bad. I had good hearing until I hit the 6000hz range when my scores totally dropped.

The hearing test had two parts. In the first part, I wore headphones and had to hit a buzzer whenever I heard a tone (more like a high-pitched whine). The tone would be replayed at diminishing volumes (or higher pitches?). Did the left ear first then the right ear. When I was doing the fainter noises, I really noticed the blood rushing through my head - made it really hard to hear.

In the second part, I had to repeat words that were spoken to me - really simply stuff like "oatmeal", "fish", "playground".

Anyways, I'm probably going to spring for the professional earplugs - the molds will be custom but the recommended filters are Etymotic Research's ER-15.

Right now, I'm using Sonic II with a 6db cut but that's barely adequate for my rehearsals. Live shows will probably be louder. :bawl:

I've had my appointment too. I forked out for the muso earplugs with the 15db pads and they're Brilliant (they also offer 9db and 25db). You can still hear everything but softer and therefore clearer. They change the tone a little but its not hard to get used to.

I declined the hearing test though. Why? Because it only tested the frequencies between 250hz and 8k. I tried to explain that there's a lot of music that happens below 250hz, and a lot of music that happens above 8k - and she kinda understood. Apparently the audiometer would go a low as 125hz but that's it. They were primarily cncerned with the frequencies that relate to understanding speech. So I told her I'd look around for a more comprehensive hearing test.

Has anyone else come across this?

I have used ear plugs for a while, but I am wondering about the custom ones. I use the yellow foam ones. I sprung for a box of 100 pairs from some safety place. I bought the ones that are longer than usual. They offered better protection than the others. I think the regular offer like 29 db protection while the longer ones provide 33 db protection. I make sure I insert these suckers as far as is comfortable (and so as not to damage my ears that way too!). I use either the larege ones or the smaller ones dependng on the situation. I use the large ones all of the time when mowing the lawn and working in the workshop. I don't understand why they make shop vacs so stinking loud!

Do the custom earplus offer more protection, or do things just sound better as opposed to the foam ones?

I can live with the less than optimal sound through the foam ones, I just don't want to lose any more hearing.

Do the custom earplus offer more protection, or do things just sound better as opposed to the foam ones?

They sound clearer. I'm like many musos who tried really hard to like the foam ones, but they made everything sound muffled.

Hey Petebass, have you tried the store-bought musician earplugs? Right now, I'm using Sonic II's which have a 6db cut. They don't muffle the top end as much as the foamies but offer less protection. Are the custom plugs significantly better than the off-the-shelf plugs?

Are the custom plugs significantly better than the off-the-shelf plugs?

I tried every type of off-the-shelf ear plugs available. Musician, Swimming, industrial, you name it I tried it (remembering that we seem to have far less brand options here in Oz than you luck Americans). Most as you say cut the highs, some didnt, but I swear some even boosted the bottom end.

To answer your question, "it's no contest". They custom ones MUCH better. As you can tell I'm hard to please and these things are excellent. Since my original post I've even started to feel naked without them. I forgot them at home once and found that I was kicking myself - everything sounded loud and harsh and I went home with ears ringing. I honestly don't know what took me so long to get a pair. I just gotta make sure I don't lose em.

woaahh...just discovered this thread...and since I play loud stuff, and Im just about to get my bigger, louder amp, I'm definitely gunna muy a pair of Mike D's. Those seem to be described as quite good, and a great deal. I don't know if I'd fork over $140 for custom yet, but Mike's will definitely do until then.

My earplugs, the ER-20 are made by the same company that makes the filters for the custom plugs. There was a post on the TBL about my plugs yesterday and, of course, everytime that happens I get hammered. Currently all I have is solid colors. I should have clear and color/clear combinations by Friday

Mike

Originally posted by Petebass
(remembering that we seem to have far less brand options here in Oz than you luck Americans).

Did you just called me an "American"???? :eek:

With that being said, I gotta book an appointment to get the molds...

You could call me a New Zealander and we'd be even..... :)

Sorry I didn't mean to offend Americans or Canadians, or New Zealanders. You're all wonderful........

I'll continue to take it one step further, be the Mother Hen that Im becoming known as ....and ask this favor/question. If you keep looking for a solution to protecting your ears, try the most obvious.......turn down. :)

I know, your guitarist/drummer/accordion player won't do it so neither can you. Don't take no for an answer. The shrinking audiences are telling us that THEY are tired of being bombed with high sound pressure levels as well. While we can still hear, we should listen.

Mike........(and others).......some VERY nice points.

RB

:D

Very informative thread. I've been noticing the onset of ever-present tinnitus for the past few months in varying degrees of intensity and while I wore plugs occasionally before, I think it better become an all the time practice now.

I've only been a gigging musician for the past year so I've only been exposed to loud amps and drums for that period of time, therefore I think this has been more triggered by the band after working a couple years in loud factories, and my habit of seeing live music ~once a week.

My drummer showed up at practice with the custom moulded plugs yesterday ($170) and said he absolutely loves them so I think I'm going to spring for a pair.

I have a couple questions about these:

Which filters would you recommend? I would like to use the plugs both at practice and when I'm out at concerts or club shows, should I have different levels of db protection? Can you switch filters with a single mould or do you need a different pair of plugs for different filters?

Has anyone ever lost these? $170 seems like an awful lot of money to spend on something that may or may not stay in my ear if I'm jumping around or headbanging.

Originally posted by nicoli
Very informative thread. I've been noticing the onset of ever-present tinnitus for the past few months in varying degrees of intensity and while I wore plugs occasionally before, I think it better become an all the time practice now.

My drummer showed up at practice with the custom moulded plugs yesterday ($170) and said he absolutely loves them so I think I'm going to spring for a pair.

Has anyone ever lost these? $170 seems like an awful lot of money to spend on something that may or may not stay in my ear if I'm jumping around or headbanging.

Are you forced to wear plugs at rehearsal?? If so, I'd consider purchasing a pair of the ear cups like you see loggers wearing. This will send a message to your bandmates that you find the volume level a bit offensive. And believe it or not, the high quality cups actually work. They look just like headphones. The fact that they say "John Deere" on the side is kind of a giveaway.............but it beats going deaf. :cool:

RB

I just got some molds for some customs The audioligist pulled a huge chunk of wax out of my ears:eek: now I have more high end;)

Sorry but its the truth any way Ill report back with the impresstions on the plugs

AJ

Has anyone ever lost these? $170 seems like an awful lot of money to spend on something that may or may not stay in my ear if I'm jumping around or headbanging. WHen I said "I hope i don't lose them", I was talking about leaving them behind at a gig or putting them somewhere so safe I can't find em.

There's no way they're gonna fall out while your playing, no hatter how hard you head-bang.

Apparently the filters are interchangable with the single moulds. I like my 15db's for gigs but note that it makes it a bit hard to hear band chatter in between songs (small price to pay). For gigs where the DJ is blaring in between sets, they work nicely. And to my surprise, no one in the crowd has hassled me about wearing are plugs.

I think all of the plugs use the same filters from Etymotic Research. The recommended level is -15db. They say that -25db is too much and -9db is too little. I'm currently using off-the-shelf plugs with a -6db cut. They are adequate for rehearsal but I know they will be useless at a show. Even my plugs won't fall out during rehearsal so I'm assuming that the custom molds won't either. With that being said, one of my friends lost the filter (but not the mold) while moshing in a mosh pit.

Originally posted by Mike Dimin
Jason,
This is one of the most important threads I've seen here. My wife is in charge of the Audiology Department of a major hospital. She has seen downbeat and grammy award winning players who balk at the $125.00 or so that a custom pair of earplugs cost. Tjhe real question is how much is your hearing and your career worth?

Do not go to a hearing aid dealer. Go to an auduilogist and get an "audiogram." This will tell you just where your hearing is now, a baseline, so to speak. Spend the 125 for the ER-15's or ER-25 earplugs and then get your hearing checked yearly.

Additionally, think of your amplifier as a stage monitor. Play at a low volume, let the PA do the rest for the audience. You'll also find that you feel better the next day. Loud sounds also cause your body stress.

BTW, Jason based on your Magazine" thread.
Besides being an "ask The Pro" on this great site I am also the Associate Editor and columnist for Bass Frontiers Magazine (www.bassfrontiers.com). Feel free to email me with your suggestions. Additionally, many of our interviews are done by fans who submit them for publication. So wew are open to your suggestions and committment to seeing these artists profiled '

I have been using the foam type plugs for years now. They work fine. In fact the make it a lot easier to hear the bass and drums.

After many years of off and on usage of many different types of over the counter ear plugs this past Monday I had molds made and my custom plugs should be arriving in two weeks. I'd been talking about doing it long enough so like my good friend Funkster, I headed off to UMASS Medical Center in Worcester MA and paid my $110 which is money well spent. I went with the 15db cut but I can order the 25db filters if I choose later on.

Well I got my plugs first impression these things aint goin anywhere! They are IN THERE, kinda wierd:rolleyes:


Anyway I got the 9's and the 15's cause Im exposed to alot of not quite loud but still loud. they seem cool they sound good at home witht the stereo.

Ill write back with more.


AJ

I used earplugs at a very loud practice, and I found I had to take them out because I couldn't play as well for some reason! My timing was off and I just couldn't get the hang of playing with them in. Has anybody else had this problem? I really want to protect my hearing, but not at the expense of my musicianship!

Since the new band I am in started practicing, I have been wearing ear plugs at practice. We play loud and without them my ears would probably hurt. When I think about what could happen to my ears if I don't wear ear plugs, there is no choice. I want to be able to hear things when I get old!

jtbp

I find I possibly become a bit "detached" when playing with earplugs, both while playing and between songs. I do hear the music better, but it's not as "physical" if you know what I mean. So in one respect it's better - without the boominess I hear the notes better, and I don't get fatigue from the noise - and in some respects it's not so good - less energy somehow. In my case this is not really a problem as only a few songs we do are of the "high energy" kind, but I can see how some people would feel there is something lacking when using the plugs. I would urge anyone who feel the same to learn how to live with this anyway, there simply is no certain cure for damaged hearing or tinnitus.

Originally posted by Anders Östberg
I find I possibly become a bit "detached" when playing with earplugs,

Imagine how detached someone would feel if they couldn't hear what was going on around them.

Mike

Mike, I totally agree, as you can see from the last sentence in my previous post. I use form-fitted plugs at both rehearsals and gigs.

I continue to be the pain in the b-ass and preach that playing music while wearing ear plugs is akin to Van Gogh wearing two catchers mitts while he painted.
Turn down---it's FREE! :D

RB

www.richbriere.com

Originally posted by Anders Östberg
Mike, I totally agree, as you can see from the last sentence in my previous post. I use form-fitted plugs at both rehearsals and gigs.

Anders, I wasn't talking about you. I just used your post to hammer home a point.

Rich, when you can't hear any longer. can I have first dibs on the MTD:p

Mike

AO Safety. If you buy some of their earplugs, you will never have a problem with anything again. I keep them with me no matter where I go. The great thing about them is that, when I have them in, I can hear someone whispering to me in a normal environment, or I can stand directly in front of a 10,000 watt PA booming at full blast and it not be loud enough to damage my hearing (it rattles my bones, which I'm sure causes damage, but my ears are fine). I played in a band that praticed full blast all the time, and without my earplugs, it was too loud, and I couldn't really distinguish between sounds or hear what the guitarist was playing. I don't know why that was, I just couldn't. However, when I had my earplugs in, they blocked out all of the excess noise from my bass amp and the drums and I could hear the guitarist perfectly. So, not only will these earplugs help save your hearing, they will allow you to hear more of the music. And, best of all, they're pretty small and very comfortable. I wouldn't part with mine for anything. Anyway, there's my 2 cents.

Originally posted by Mike Dimin


Rich, when you can't hear any longer. can I have first dibs on the MTD:p

Mike

Sorry Mike....whad'ya say?? I can't seem to hear ya'.
:D

Originally posted by iplaybass
I used earplugs at a very loud practice, and I found I had to take them out because I couldn't play as well for some reason! My timing was off and I just couldn't get the hang of playing with them in. Has anybody else had this problem? I really want to protect my hearing, but not at the expense of my musicianship!

Are you using foamies? They lower the volume but deaden the high-end too much - the specialized earplugs are better. I decided to buy and try a pair of ER-20's from Mike Dimin (ordered 'em yesterday) before spending $200 on the custom plugs. I should be able to A/B/C foamies, Sonic II's and the ER-20's in a little while.

iplaybass - I had that problem when I first started wearing plugs but after a few practices it wasnt' an issue anymore. Force yourself to wear them and eventually it will feel natural.

try a pair of ER-20's


Ive used a pair of those for a year thier nice. I didnt know they were made by the good people untill I went to the specialist and got the pamflet for the new ones.

AJ

Yeah, got my ER-20's in the mail yesterday (Thanks Mike!). Haven't tried them in a band setting but A/B/C'ed the three in front of the TV. I'm surprised at how well the ER-20's fit. The Sonic II earplugs I was using were made of a stiff plastic material that were sharp and uncomfortable. The ER-20's are soft and don't dig in at all. And the sound quality while wearing them was much better than the Sonic II's. The noise reduction was more substantial (as expected) but the quality of the reduction was substantially different. In order to match the sound clarity while wearing the Sonic II's, I had to plug up the soundholes with my fingers. And the foamies, well, no competition.

I just bought some cords for the earplugs. I was reluctant to carry them, but I'm going to give them a chance. I'll have them posted on the website tomorrow morning. The cords cost an extra buck

Mike

im so crazy about hearing. Like the other night i herd a story about some kid who went to a conster, and now has to hear a loud ringing for hte rest of his life. that scared the piss outta me. so im looking in to get really good ear plugs. I DONT WANT TENDINITUS (if thats how its spelled/called) but yeah. Tonight i went to a friends, and his band was jamming. but i went in and covered my hears, and found some heavy duity ear muff things that drummers wear. im really worryed, i dont wanna hear ringing ^_^ iv been going to music stores, but they only have little cheap 16$ ones that only reduce 12 of the levels or wahtever. is that enough??~?? anyone know a really good site to order some good ones from??~?? thanks!!~!!

- w00t

Originally posted by Impulsee
anyone know a really good site to order some good ones from??~?? thanks!!~!!

- w00t

The best place is Michael Dimin's website, here is a link to his estore.

http://www.michaeldimin.com/estore.htm

Originally posted by Mike Dimin
I just bought some cords for the earplugs. I was reluctant to carry them, but I'm going to give them a chance. I'll have them posted on the website tomorrow morning. The cords cost an extra buck
Mike

The cords are a must, IMO, along with that nifty plastic pouch they fit into.

Originally posted by rabid_granny


Are you using foamies? They lower the volume but deaden the high-end too much - the specialized earplugs are better. I decided to buy and try a pair of ER-20's from Mike Dimin (ordered 'em yesterday) before spending $200 on the custom plugs. I should be able to A/B/C foamies, Sonic II's and the ER-20's in a little while.

Rabid- Yes I am using foamies. Hearos to be precise. I think i will order a set of ER-20's, I'd be interested in seeing if having a flatter cut response will solve my problem.

My earplugs (ER-20's) are made by Etymotic Research the same company that makes the custom earplug filters.

I just noticed that the prie on their website went up from 10 - 12.00 dollars (mine are still 10.00). I'm hoping that my cost has not risen. If so I'll have to raise mine. I'll know more tomorrow.

My feeling is that my price has not gone up YET. Get them while the getting is good.

Mike

Mike....just got a message that you had posted on Talkbass..........WHILE I was visiting YOUR site. Nice place. :^>)

RB

I just wanted to say THANK YOU to all that posted on this thread.

I was very inspired by what some of you guys had to say. I had never thought too much about hearing protection until this thread.

I'm making an appointment with an audiologist for custom ear plugs next week. It's only $150, so I'm going for it.

Originally posted by Schwinn
I'm making an appointment with an audiologist for custom ear plugs next week. It's only $150, so I'm going for it.

You may want to try the ER-20's that Mike's selling first. Mike says that the custom plugs and ER-20's are practically the same. I got to try the ER-20's in practice on Tuesday and they are surreal. The mix of lower volume and clarity was unbelievable.

Originally posted by rabid_granny


You may want to try the ER-20's that Mike's selling first. Mike says that the custom plugs and ER-20's are practically the same. I got to try the ER-20's in practice on Tuesday and they are surreal. The mix of lower volume and clarity was unbelievable.

Thanks rabid,

but I got a good deal on customs at the hearing and speech clinic at my university, $100. I got the molds done today and it will be another 2 weeks before they come in. I'm trying the ER-15 filters first, since that was recommended in this thread. If that's not enough, I can exchange them for 25's as long as I do it right away. And now...

a well deserved BUMP for this thread.

i've been using a pair of the ER-20's at weekly practice for the past few months and they work great while the music is playing... i obviously have to say, "what?" when someone's trying to talk to me though.

the two negative about the ER-20's are:
*the fagility of the plastic end cap handles. on mine the clear end caps seem shattered/cracked but they're still in one piece.
*the plastic end caps often separate from the plugs.

http://www.auracom.com/~otarion/earplugs.html

i definitely will want to buy a couple of pairs at a time in the future.

My band is loud, and our stage volume is just stupid. I use inexpensive foam earplugs with a very high (29db) noise reduction rating. I love them. My ears feel fine at the end of the night.

Of course it does not sound the same when we play -- the high frequencies are dulled, and whenever I sing my voice sounds disproportionately loud. But it only took a few weeks to realize that I CAN hear the rest of the band just fine. It only took some getting used to -- the brain fills in the blanks for you once you get used to it, and the music honestly sounds good, full, and dynamic. I can hear myself sing every time regardless of monitor mix.

I got my earplugs on ebay and paid less than twenty dollars for 200 pairs. I use one or two pairs each night; when they lose their resiliency they don't work as well.

I tried the Sonic earplugs, the little 6db peak-reducers with the diaphragms you can get for 12-15 bucks at a music store. They were awful -- ineffective and uncomfortable at the same time. I wore them twice and threw them away.

I may try a form-fitted pair someday -- I used to believe that was the only kind worth trying, after my bad Sonic experience.

But for all you guys who don't want to try earplugs because, like me, you thought they have to cost a lot to be any good -- try the high-rated foam ones for a month to get used to the new sound. Maybe, like me, you'll find they are all you really need.

Originally posted by fourfinger
My band is loud, and our stage volume is just stupid.


:D

Bass-ically Yours,
RB

My friend recommended me to get them and I am now definitely going to take his advice. If my band plays medium sized gigs(200-500 people) what ear plugs will I need deciable wise? I was thinking 15 db, but I'm not positive.

Thanks for this thread! I started to use plugs during gigs and rehearsals and it has saved my ears! I've tried a couple over the counter plugs. Right now I'm using Hearos Rock N' Rollers reusable ones. They fit perfect AND comfortably!

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=950497#post950497 could you please tell me what you think of this? i decided to make a new topic so i wouldnt disrupt this one

Now that Ive had my costoms for long enough to be used to them. WOW! thier Great!

Spend the money


AJ

Originally posted by rockbassist1087
My friend recommended me to get them and I am now definitely going to take his advice. If my band plays medium sized gigs(200-500 people) what ear plugs will I need deciable wise? I was thinking 15 db, but I'm not positive. I got the 15's and I was happy originally. But it seems that buying the earplugs sent a message and everyone seems to play softer nowdays. I'm just about to get the 9db pads because at the newly reduced volume, the 15dB pads seem to block too much. I find myself wearing one plug only or worse, none at all. SO the 9's are on the way!!!!

BTW.....I'm not complaining. the bands sound better nowdays IMO.

my earplugs are 12. THey rock, they are effective and my ears arent damaged, and there is absolutly no ring after a huge jam. but there low enough to hear the band and everything fine. So not only does it do the job or an ear plug perfectly, it still allows me to be at my best.

- w00t

I just got my custom ear plugs today!!! I really like them. very comfy.

O.k. I'll add my experiences to this already HUGELY important thread.

I'm 36 and I've been playing bass for 4 years and a hi-fi enthusiast for 20 years. I've had my share of loud stereos and concerts and now loud bass rigs and bands. fortunately I've played mostly in church type groups, but that doesn't mean comfortable volume levels all the time either! I recently got into a band situation where the main speakers are at ear level, five feet away. I think on average we run about 100db on stage because we are so close to the mains also.

I wore industrial strength foam cylinder earplugs for a while, but felt disconnected from the band. recently I realized that I had been playing too softly because foam plugs cut mid and high frequencies pretty good, but the lower frequencies can still be 6-12db louder, so i would turn down to balance with the band. bad idea. so I decided to go with the ER20 earplugs from www.michaeldimin.com

The mix in my head is better and I can play with them in even on quiet songs. the response is more balanced too!

IF YOU DOUBT YOU CAN FIND EARPLUGS THAT SOUND GOOD, BUY A PAIR OF ER20's!!!! I'll never play with foam plugs again, unless I forget my er20s

In rehearsal, I use generic foam ear plugs.

But -- I also wear those ear-muff type protectors on my head. It looks dorky but one of the guitarists does it too.

On stage, just generic foam ear plugs. I don't pretend that it doesn't affect my playing -- it does -- but I'd rather have my hearing.

Originally posted by Mcrelly

IF YOU DOUBT YOU CAN FIND EARPLUGS THAT SOUND GOOD, BUY A PAIR OF ER20's!!!! I'll never play with foam plugs again, unless I forget my er20s

Mike,
right on!

I didn't start wearing plugs until it was almost too late. I was young, dumb and invincible. I guess now I'm older, a tad less dumb (debateable I know:)) and vincible. My left ear is fine, but I experienced high-end loss in my right. So I'm very protective of what's left. I wear the foam "shooter" plugs. I spent years playing in VERY LOUD bands. A word to the young bucks... Wear plugs, because if you don't all the volume WILL catch up with you. The egg of the ear is very delicate. Please wear plugs.

youve all scared the **** out of me now!! :eek:

im getting some ER-20s asap! :D:bassist:

Good man! Don't listen to anyone calling you a wimp or something. They won't be able to hear anyone calling them wimps someday. It will take you a few weeks to get used to them but after that you will not be able to go anywhere and hear any band without them. You'll love it!:D

The best way to use ear plugs is to put them in right away. That is, right when you enter the club or right after a soundcheck (if you playing). This way it takes no "getting used to" the difference in volume with ear plugs. If you put them in halfway through a show you will no doubt be disapointed with the cut in volume because your ears have adjusted to the loudness.

Very cool stuff. I'm gonna look into some ER-4S for usage with our in-ear system. I'm not really happy w/ the shure E1's that we have.

Originally posted by Schwinn
The best way to use ear plugs is to put them in right away. That is, right when you enter the club or right after a soundcheck (if you playing).

I'd say wear them during soundcheck too, no point in taking the time to set up a nice monitor mix when you're going to be hearing something different during the actual show.

Either way, I wear mine 99.5% of the time when I'm playing and almost always when I'm seeing a show as well. I'm so used to them after the first week or two that things sound better with them in.

I tried reading all 9 pages but didn't see anything mentioning singing. I sing too and need to hear vocal monitors, which style or model plug would be recommended for bass players that do vocals?

In theory, the custom mold ones are best for vocals because they provide a complete seal that means you don't get that singing underwater feeling.

If you're just looking for being able to hear flat response through the monitors I would think customs or the ER-20s would both work fine.

in my band we must use earplugs because our drummer beats so hard that we must keep a very high volume in our rehearsal room... the problem goes away when we play on a stage but we can't rehearsal without earplugs... our drummer just started using them because he has a permenent ringing in his ears because of his hard playing...

I just came back from playing a LOUD gig tonight.. and my ears are ringing. I'm really mad at myself:mad: Well, I don't really have the cash to be forking over 150 dollars or so, so what would you fine people at talkbass recommend for me? I don't want to spend too much, but I want something that will sound good and protect my hearing.

Also, I've become very paranoid about loud noises after reading this thread and thinking about hearing loss. I'm only 16 but do you think permanent damage could have been done? I mean, I'm going to start wearing earplugs from now on, so I suppose it's not worth worrying about because whatever damage that was done has been done already... I'm just extremely paranoid.

Originally posted by fleabass89
I just came back from playing a LOUD gig tonight.. and my ears are ringing. I'm really mad at myself:mad: Well, I don't really have the cash to be forking over 150 dollars or so, so what would you fine people at talkbass recommend for me? I don't want to spend too much, but I want something that will sound good and protect my hearing.

Also, I've become very paranoid about loud noises after reading this thread and thinking about hearing loss. I'm only 16 but do you think permanent damage could have been done? I mean, I'm going to start wearing earplugs from now on, so I suppose it's not worth worrying about because whatever damage that was done has been done already... I'm just extremely paranoid.

As my wife the audiologist says, "If it's still ringing in 24 hours, it might just be permanent"

There have been a number of posts stating the great $12.00 earplugs, The ER-20. You can get them here:

http://michaeldimin.com/estore.htm

Mike

I second Mike's recommendation. I have a set of those that I bought from him. Best low priced plugs on the market. The only way to do better is to get the $150 custom fitted plugs.

Mike, don't the ER-20's have the same 'capsule' or element as the fitted plugs?

Originally posted by embellisher
I second Mike's recommendation. I have a set of those that I bought from him. Best low priced plugs on the market. The only way to do better is to get the $150 custom fitted plugs.

Mike, don't the ER-20's have the same 'capsule' or element as the fitted plugs?

Jeff,
They are not the same, but they are designed by the same person, Meade Killian

Mike

Mike Dimin, can i get them in Europe too?

Originally posted by AnTz0r
Mike Dimin, can i get them in Europe too?

I am not sure if there is a European distributor. I do ship to Europe, but I think that I am NOT going to ship to Italy anymore as it seems that EVERY time I ship to Italy, there is a problem

Mike

dont worry im from holland ;)

ill contact you later

Wow what a totally great discussion (so far)...has anyone gone further into the science side of hearing loss?...

I mean, there must be some other steps other than living in a world of total silence for keeping your ears in shape...we have excercises for just about every other part of the body, what about the ears. We now have laser surgery for eyes which is mind boggling to me, plastic surgery can make YOU look like ME (and vice versa). But what about the ears...I used earplugs once, and (IMO) it was like eating with a condom on my tongue, but on the same token, I do not have any hearing loss what-so-ever today (36). I have played in loud bands just like most of us, and I'm still the one that notices the little pings that make others say "how the hell did you hear that".

Am I doing something right....or just lucky?

There must be more research than just earplugs. Post if you know of any.

Introvox
www.divashow.ca

Originally posted by Introvox
Wow what a totally great discussion (so far)...has anyone gone further into the science side of hearing loss?...

I mean, there must be some other steps other than living in a world of total silence for keeping your ears in shape...we have excercises for just about every other part of the body, what about the ears. We now have laser surgery for eyes which is mind boggling to me, plastic surgery can make YOU look like ME (and vice versa). But what about the ears...I used earplugs once, and (IMO) it was like eating with a condom on my tongue, but on the same token, I do not have any hearing loss what-so-ever today (36). I have played in loud bands just like most of us, and I'm still the one that notices the little pings that make others say "how the hell did you hear that".

Am I doing something right....or just lucky?

There must be more research than just earplugs. Post if you know of any.

Introvox
www.divashow.ca

There is lots of research into hearing and the preservation of one's hearing. My wife is the head of the audiology department of a major hospital so I am a bit tied into the whole thing.

Damage to the hearing caused my loud sounds is nerve damage. Nerve damage is irreversable. It just doesn't heal. Laser surgery on the eyes will correct certain deficiencies, but will not, unfortunately, cure blindness. The ear and the mechanisms that create hearing are extremely complicated. Since hearing is not usually a cosmetic issue (ie: wearing glasses vs. contacts or laser surgery), there is not the same R&D into the concept of laser surgery, nerve regeneration, etc.

There are however, many researching smaller and less obtrusive, programmable digital hearing aids to help those that have lost their hearing. For some that are deaf, there is a Cochlear Implant.

But the only way to save the hearing that you have is through preservation and protection. You state that you once tried earplugs, perhaps you should try a different kind. Not all are the same. All, however, are a compromise. But, then again, losing your hearing is far worse

Mike

I think I've seen the light on this. I never wore plugs, EVER, but for the past week and a half I've had this really bad cold where my ears have become plugged up and I"m almost completely deaf. The doc says it'll clear up in a week or so and I'll be good as new. But I hate this and I don't ever want to lose my hearing, so plugs for me from now on!

I have really sensitive ears. Like, when someone shuts the car door and I'm in the car, I grip my ears in pain. My friends all look at me like I'm crazy. So, I might get some custom-fitted ones, but they seem pretty expensive.

I have been having an issue lately with our drummer, because I believe he is playing way too hard for the situations we are in and driving up the volume of the band and driving out bar patrons. To get my point accross I am going to buy a DB meter from radio shack for our upcoming show this friday.

The club is a small room, perhaps 25X40. How loud should we be and at what point should I point to the meter and say "YOU'RE TOO DAMN LOUD.... SEE!!!!!"

I bought ER-20's and have started using them at rehearsal, but I have been having trouble adjusting to the while singing, so I have yet to use them at a show. I think this week iam gonig to give them a shot.

TIA

Great for loud rehearsals in small spaces. Mine goes everywhere I do in its plastic case with keychain attached to my car keys. Saved my ears on more than one impromptu visit to a club with out of control sound levels.

There is lots of research into hearing and the preservation of one's hearing. My wife is the head of the audiology department of a major hospital so I am a bit tied into the whole thing.

Mike D - I think it's really great that you champion this issue both here on Talkbass and through your website. One's hearing is such a valuable part of being a musician that anything that compromises that is an important issue to be tackled.

I would encourage anybody who is thinking about getting earplugs to fork out the small amount needed to get some ER-20's from Mike. They work really well and *really are* worth the money.

All the best,
Mike

:)

I am taking an audiology class at present (its part of my other major speech pathology) and i am finding it very interesting. My Prof. has her own clinic and has told me to come by her clinic because i really should get the custom fit earplugs. Cheap $2.00 earplugs make everything sound so muffled i can never hear anything... and I am willing to pay $ to save my hearing...

As stated before hearing loss due to excessive exposure to noise is sensory neural hearing loss and cannot be reversed... So you may as well invest now and save your hearing in the long run..

just my 2 cents

i got some hi-fi hearos for christmas. 12 db cut. thats all i need. i am in the loudest of places where w/out plugs i know that my ears would ring for days...because ive been there bfore w/out plugs. hearos are the stuff!! if i wear my hearos, i can hear the high registers and the low registers. if someone talks to me then i can hear them. my ears havent ringed (rung?) since christmas. $14.99 at GC.

Originally posted by notabob
i got some hi-fi hearos for christmas. 12 db cut. thats all i need. i am in the loudest of places where w/out plugs i know that my ears would ring for days...because ive been there bfore w/out plugs. hearos are the stuff!! if i wear my hearos, i can hear the high registers and the low registers. if someone talks to me then i can hear them. my ears havent ringed (rung?) since christmas. $14.99 at GC.

Some of the "hi-fi" hearos are actually made by ER and are exactly the ones that I sell -repackaged and more expensive

Mike

I use ear plugs I "get" from work, they're to stop the sound of the heavy machinary. They are disposable ones though.
How about ear phones? can the do the trick if you get good ones? I hate having to stick those things in you ear, take them out, put them back in again ..... wax, wax, wax.... :hmm:
I ALLWAYS use earplugs, but wouldn't headphones do a better trick, couse they're bigger?
Does anyone have advice in that area?

In my old school we had them in our metal work class, and they seemd to really bring the sound level down.


SCODI

the guy doing my bands recording right now has some headphones that were only like $50 and they have a 28 decible cut. its a lot dorkier to wear giant headphones at a gig that tiny little earplugs. if you get the good ones (hearos, er) you can just une a q-tip and some rubbing alchohol to clean the ear plugs and it doesnt take but 30 second to do it. $50 or $15? ill go with $15...

I would only use the headphones at practice
.....nad maybe I want to look dorky :rolleyes:


I know you can clean them, I just don't like the putting in, taking out thing. Like someone sais something so you take them out, then you fiddle around to put them in and whilst your doing so, the guitarist starts to play and your head explodes.

actually, w/ the hearos, i can leave them in the whole time. i got to some really loud places and run merch for my brother's band. i can hear what the people are saying while i have the plugs in and while they are playing. because you can hear all of the frequencies, its just like hearing without them, but they cut everything 12 dbs. so you can still hear what you could without them just on a smaller scale.

I too have had a loss of hearing (40% in left ear) in part, due to years of playing at excessive stage volumes. I would like to add that a pair of custom molded ear plugs can be had for around $100......a cheap price to pay. Another, more expensive option, is in-ear monitors. Although between $1200-1500 for good ones, still cheap when you think about losing THE most important instrument a musician possesses. My entire band went to in-ears over a year ago (even the drummer and guitar player!) and besides the benefit of saving our hearing, here are a few others:

- No more heavy wedges to haul around
- No more feedback (no open sound loops)
- Less stage volume, by far
- Easier to mix FOH
- No more headaches (Club owners excluded)
- Vocals are much improved and less vocal strain

If you have to remain cool and play at 140 db, enjoy it while you can, cause by the time you're my age, you'll be stone-deaf and I'll still be gigging!
-

I just got fitted for custom earplugs this afternoon. It took them about 10 minutes for the whole consulting, fitting process. For $200 I get a set of -15db plugs and -25db plugs, a good deal. There's nothing more important than protecting yourself. (Get your mind out of the gutter :spit: )

was going to get fitted for nice ones but after buying eckard ones that were not foam I realized i didnt need them SO i gave them to my guitarists and bought some overpriced er-20s...yea i know i should ahve ordered them through mike but i was like hell i need plugs and bought them. They have been a godsend for small DIY metal shows and every practice we have. for the price the er-20's rock.

I too have had a loss of hearing (40% in left ear) in part, due to years of playing at excessive stage volumes. I would like to add that a pair of custom molded ear plugs can be had for around $100......a cheap price to pay. Another, more expensive option, is in-ear monitors. Although between $1200-1500 for good ones, still cheap when you think about losing THE most important instrument a musician possesses. My entire band went to in-ears over a year ago (even the drummer and guitar player!) and besides the benefit of saving our hearing, here are a few others:

- No more heavy wedges to haul around
- No more feedback (no open sound loops)
- Less stage volume, by far
- Easier to mix FOH
- No more headaches (Club owners excluded)
- Vocals are much improved and less vocal strain

If you have to remain cool and play at 140 db, enjoy it while you can, cause by the time you're my age, you'll be stone-deaf and I'll still be gigging!
-

The in-ear system sounds like the way to go...but I'd still need my ear plugs. Having plugs for band practice/shows is only half of it for me. I wear ear plugs when I see live bands every weekend as well. Sometimes being in the audience is louder than being on stage!

well, after reading this thread i'm totally convinced to try ER-20s. just wanted to ask, what for those cords for extra buck are?

well, after reading this thread i'm totally convinced to try ER-20s. just wanted to ask, what for those cords for extra buck are?

Some like to have them hang around their neck when they take them off. Personally, I never use the cords

Mike

Plugs seem the way to go... But at what level should you start using them. I often jam with my friend (drummer) and i play with my 100 watt amp at about 5 or 6 ( about half way ) Should i sport the plugs then or only when it gets louder?

Cheers,
Chips :bassist:

Generally speaking, I always wear plugs if I'm in the same room as the drummer. Those impulse noises like cymbals potentially cause way more hearing loss than a loud guitar amp will.

Hi,
I've just got the Hearo Hi-Fi's, but how in the name of Hell do you clean them? In the diagram you have to pull apart the ear pluggy bit from the end piece, but I don't know how. Does it just require effort? I don't really wanna go and tear them straight off...
They're pretty swish though. Takes the edge off loud volume, anyway.

Mark.

"The best way to use ear plugs is to put them in right away. That is, right when you enter the club or right after a soundcheck (if you playing). This way it takes no "getting used to" the difference in volume with ear plugs. If you put them in halfway through a show you will no doubt be disapointed with the cut in volume because your ears have adjusted to the loudness."

Truer words have not been spoken...

There's no excuse for not wearing earplugs at shows, like there's not an excuse for not wearing your seatbelt in your car or helmet on your motorcycle. My 7 years in the Army dealing with mortars and artillery should have taught me enough, but a PA in a modest sized club can equal a 4.2 inch mortar or a 155mm howitzer.

Some people have aked where can they get ear plugs other than online or music stores. I buy the foam ones from Walgreen's pharmacy. I imagine you can go to your local pharmacy and they will have a pretty good selection. They are generally less than ten dollars too. I use the foam ones all the time, and it will take you a couple of practices to get use to them. But you will enjoy a lifetime of hearing. An easy trade off. I look back on the times I did not use ear plugs and feel like a moron.

i think i saw the hifi hearos at walgreens too...but im not too sure about that.

Where can i go to get fitted for 'custom' ear plugs? I'm seriously thinking about purchasing a pair, because I frequently go to clubs to hear live music, and I know it isn't good for my ears.

I play the bass too.... :help:

It's funny what some people will put their bodies through, just to be "cool."

ive got a folder for a "Exinore comfort set". it shuold be 160 euros.

it just uses a standard filter, no hearing test or whatever. anyone knows if this is any good?

I just play bass on my own, for myself really. I've had tinnitus for awhile now (year and a half) after I shot about 150 shotgun shells from a 12guage. They ring constantly, it sucks, and I'm only 17...I have some hearing loss in both ears and I don't want to lose anymore. I bought some 12-db cut ER's and I was curious if these will be alright for a concert. I've used the foam ones and they really made the show not enjoyable. I'm talking large venues, arenas and ampitheatres particularly. Is the 12-db cut enough for this type of environment?

I just play bass on my own, for myself really. I've had tinnitus for awhile now (year and a half) after I shot about 150 shotgun shells from a 12guage. They ring constantly, it sucks, and I'm only 17...I have some hearing loss in both ears and I don't want to lose anymore. I bought some 12-db cut ER's and I was curious if these will be alright for a concert. I've used the foam ones and they really made the show not enjoyable. I'm talking large venues, arenas and ampitheatres particularly. Is the 12-db cut enough for this type of environment?

yeah, it should be. i have the same 12db cut earplugs and i go to some really small, but loud venues and they work fine. the larger the area, the more space for the sound to diffuse into besides your ears. the 12db should be fine as ive had miine for about 4 months and ive had no problems at all.

well, after reading this thread i'm totally convinced to try ER-20s. just wanted to ask, what for those cords for extra buck are?
Some like to have them hang around their neck when they take them off. Personally, I never use the cords
Mike

I was told that the cords stop them falling down inside. I think it was a drummer told me.

believe me, those earplugs will not "fall inside" of your ears. you can always pull them out with the little handle thingys on the end. the cords are pretty dumb looking and the earplugs are in no danger of "falling down." :cool:

read better, notabob.

it was a DRUMMER!! who told him they could fall inside his ears.... :p

read better, notabob.

it was a DRUMMER!! who told him they could fall inside his ears.... :p

crap, my bad!

Woohoo! I just found out that my company's insurance will cover the cost of getting an Audiogram done. Now, if I can talk them into chipping in on the cost of custom earplugs, I'll be set. Guys/Gals, if you have health insurance....do yourself a favor and look into seeing if they will cover getting your ears tested. :)

To anyone who uses the hifi plugs: if you go to concerts in arenas/ampitheathers and such, do you still wear them? do you notice and issues in sound quality, and or, if your the singy-type, issues with singing along?

I wear my musicians plugs to both major concerts and club shows... if anything I find they sound better because you lose some of the distortion from the loud levels.

As far as singing, I find you get the added benefit of not hearing all the drunks around you screaming out lyrics in a club :D

i sometimes even wear mine in outside venues. you dont really lose any sound quality, and if you are the singy type, you can hear yourself louder...whether that is a good thing or a bad thing, i am not sure.

I also wear ear plugs, though not custom fit. I may have to do so down the road. Great thread!

well i guess forums are the right place to raise issues like this.

i currently use the foam hearos (-30 db), but i find that they require too much fiddling to get them into a comfortable position. i'll have to get my hands on some of those ER-20s.

a few years ago i went to a really loud gig and i forgot to bring my ear plugs along. my ears were ringing for 3 or 4 days afterwards. that really scared me. i wouldn't be surprised if i've got a bit of tinnitus too.

I'd been wearing the ER-20's but recently decided to get some of the custom fit plugs. I've got the 12db filters in them. These things are incredible. You can hear everything across the entire frequency spectrum, just 12db's less volume to deal with. I love 'em.

I currently use cotton only. Fortunately our stage volume isn't excessive and my ears never ring.

Years ago, I foolishly used no protection and sometimes suffered a little ringing. After consulting with a doctor, I still went "naked" but began stepping outside (where it was much quieter - it's a rural area) during breaks in our performances.

Many nights, I sat on a sidewalk during breaks (during some frigid Ohio winter weather!), but the modest amount of ringing that I had been experiencing was gone - and as a bonus I was less tired at the end of the gig!

I'm certainly not advocating playing without protection.

But for those who refuse to wear ear protection, they should consider getting to a minimal-noise environment as much as possible during the gig. It will probably make a positive difference.

im using etymotik plugs for rehearsal and live gigs ,i can only say that they have stopped the ringing in my ears after playing and dont distort the sound quality you hear.there a bit pricey but what is your hearing worth ?

I use earplugs that i get from work. I operate a seaweed harvesting barge with a giant diesel motor about 5 feet behind me. so i'm getting into the habit of wearing them.

I've been wearing those at practices and gigs for the past couple of years. They don't seem to interfere with my ability to distinguish any parts of the music. they just cut the volume.

I've even taken a pair for everyone else in the band.

this is what i use:
http://store.yahoo.com/bobthejanitor/cab3404004.html

You can get similar earplugs at your local hardware store for under $3 (us). I've worn these to every concert i've gone to the past couple of years except for one, because of the ringing the occured, i will always wear them in the future. I've even given earplugs to my friends at shows we go to, and most of the time they will take them out with the complaint "I can't hear everything"... which is probably cause their hearing is already somewhat damaged.

I use earplugs that i get from work. I operate a seaweed harvesting barge with a giant diesel motor about 5 feet behind me. so i'm getting into the habit of wearing them.

I've been wearing those at practices and gigs for the past couple of years. They don't seem to interfere with my ability to distinguish any parts of the music. they just cut the volume.

I've even taken a pair for everyone else in the band.

this is what i use:
http://store.yahoo.com/bobthejanitor/cab3404004.html

You can get similar earplugs at your local hardware store for under $3 (us). I've worn these to every concert i've gone to the past couple of years except for one, because of the ringing the occured, i will always wear them in the future. I've even given earplugs to my friends at shows we go to, and most of the time they will take them out with the complaint "I can't hear everything"... which is probably cause their hearing is already somewhat damaged.

you should A/B them with a set of ER-20's

Mike

For hearing protection I have used the foamys, Sonic IIs, and the ER20s. Of these, the ERs are by far the best. They are the most comfortable by a long shot. You can hear everything well, and they are the least obvious, almost ivisible. :D

I just saw this thread now....(I'm new to the site, so HI!!!), I also JUST bought the wax jobbies at a local drug store.....says they cut out 25db's....are these just as good as the custom plugs? considering they kinda fit to your ear as well.

i just got the ER20's, thanks mike dimin! speedy delivery, i ordered them friday, they were delivered next tuesday all the way to holland :)


i am gonna try them out at band practice next wednesday, and at a metal festival @ 3th of june.

I just saw this thread now....(I'm new to the site, so HI!!!), I also JUST bought the wax jobbies at a local drug store.....says they cut out 25db's....are these just as good as the custom plugs? considering they kinda fit to your ear as well.

no, they are just wax and dont have any kind of mechanism (the name passes my mind right now) to keep the sound frequencies at the same volume.

hi, i'm new to talkbass (coming over from harmony central) and i don't want to impose, but...i'm an ENT surgeon and a former pro musician and might be able to offer some advice about these sorts of things, if anyone has any specific questions or concerns.

After reading these posts I decided it was time to call and make an appointment to get custom earplugs. Why wait??

My ears are just getting too much sound for too long and too often lately and my HEARO earplugs are just not very comfortable. That occasional tinnitus needs to stay that way. Its really not a big investment for something that will last for years.

k, i just bought mine from here: http://store.yahoo.com/earplugstore/er915and25pr.html

Should I try to do the mold myself(it says you can, apparently)...has anyone ever tried it? kinda scared, and don't wanna blow the $150...then I kinda would hate to drive 2 hours to get it done professionally.

k, i just bought mine from here: http://store.yahoo.com/earplugstore/er915and25pr.html

Should I try to do the mold myself(it says you can, apparently)...has anyone ever tried it? kinda scared, and don't wanna blow the $150...then I kinda would hate to drive 2 hours to get it done professionally.

You really NEED to have an audiologist make the mold. There is really no other way to do it correctly!

Mike

i just got a bunch of ER-20s for my band. while using them to listen to music, its really amazing how much quieter everything is!

EEEEEEEEEEEEE What??? EEEEEEEEEEEE

Damned Marshall stacks!!!

i just got a bunch of ER-20s for my band. while using them to listen to music, its really amazing how much quieter everything is!

Here we are, basically neighbors and you did not get your ER-20's from me.. tsk, tsk, tsk
:crying:

I picked up my custom ear plugs early this week and had a chance to use them at a medium loud rehearsal. They are ER's and I went for having both the 15 and 25 db filters. Can change them according to whatever the band is like. Had to go to an audiologist's office and they were over $200 because of the two filters but I'm impressed.

Very easy to hear people talking. Able to hear the band just fine and bass sounds very clear. Very much more comfortable in the ear than the standard HearO's and all the other assorted ear plugs I've tried over the years. I don't think anyone would really notice I'm wearing them, but well, its a girl thing -- I have long hair. Very easy to place in ear and remove. Only thing I didn't like was that I was told that they're not exactly going to last forever, she said more like a couple of years but with good care they can last longer.

Anyway, I know too many musicians with poor hearing and was starting to get the tinnitus and don't need that, so I'm glad I made the investment and think anyone who possibly can do this should look into this and not wait until it gets bad. When it gets bad, its not going to get better :)
What?? :bassist:

I just got some ER20's from Mike Dimin, and they are awesome! I love 'em, and am VERY glad that I have them. I'm going to college this fall to study music education and performance, and the last thing I need to worry about is my hearing!

I just got some ER20's from Mike Dimin, and they are awesome! I love 'em, and am VERY glad that I have them. I'm going to college this fall to study music education and performance, and the last thing I need to worry about is my hearing!

I just ordered some from Mike earlier in the week.

You won't be dissapointed! They really do work! I will be sure to bring them to the g2g ;)

You won't be dissapointed! They really do work! I will be sure to bring them to the g2g ;)

I used them last night. You're right, they're great. It turned an all out crankfest on one song into a polite conversation. I was pleasantly surprised at the fidelity.

Great service from Mike Dimin.

It is nice knowing that you will be able to preserve your precious hearing, and at the same time, still be able to clearly hear the music and what is going on around you.

So if you have ever had ringing in your ears after being exposed to loud music, you have done permenant damage????? God that's annoying me. My girlfriend forced me to go to a bloody Sean Paul concert and to cover up his lack of talent the drums and bass was extremely loud, for about one hour after the crap concert I had ringing in my ears. Thats never happened before, should I be concerned????

Oh and I just got some decent ear plugs so it won't happen again.

So if you have ever had ringing in your ears after being exposed to loud music, you have done permenant damage????? God that's annoying me. My girlfriend forced me to go to a bloody Sean Paul concert and to cover up his lack of talent the drums and bass was extremely loud, for about one hour after the crap concert I had ringing in my ears. Thats never happened before, should I be concerned????

Oh and I just got some decent ear plugs so it won't happen again.

If the ringing goes away - that is good. If the ringing does not go away, then it will never go away. Get earplugs and carry them around for those sean paul concerts - either that or get a new girlfriend

Get earplugs and carry them around

That is great advice. I have mine on my keychain at all times.

If the ringing goes away - that is good. If the ringing does not go away, then it will never go away. Get earplugs and carry them around for those sean paul concerts - either that or get a new girlfriend


Yeah the ringing went away the next morning. And 'done' and 'done' to your final sentence :D

Yeah the ringing went away the next morning. And 'done' and 'done' to your final sentence :D

I make a point of taking my earplugs anywhere I go. Besides gigs and rehearsals, there are unexpected times when they are needed.

Been around some musicians this week who complained about hearing loss. That is closely related to tinnitus. That's too bad.

A thread like this is long overdo. Too bad it's too late for most people to heed your advice.. I use ear plugs whether I can. Unfortunatley, I lost mine so my ears didn't feel so good after last week's jam session... they finally feel better, but this is almost a week later...

I went to a Incubus concert recently, and I probably was the only one wearing earplugs that night. It's a shame that so many people are so uninformed...

Sean

Unfortunatley, I lost mine so my ears didn't feel so good after last week's jam session... they finally feel better, but this is almost a week later...


There is a
solution (http://www.michaeldimin.com/estore.htm)

Or I'll have some Er-20's at the NY get together

A thread like this is long overdo. Too bad it's too late for most people to heed your advice.. I use ear plugs whether I can. Unfortunatley, I lost mine so my ears didn't feel so good after last week's jam session... they finally feel better, but this is almost a week later...

I went to a Incubus concert recently, and I probably was the only one wearing earplugs that night. It's a shame that so many people are so uninformed...

Sean

A few months ago, I had a custom pair made. (Westone ES49 w/ 15db filters.) I've been using them regularly.

I just spent the last week working stage crew at a major outdoor Christian music festival. That was four days, working onstage for 6 - 9 hours a day. I had the plugs in almost the whole time. They were very comfortable and no ear fatigue.

I can't imagine how I would feel now if I hadn't had earplugs.

At practice and at gigs one of the very first things I do is put in my earplugs (custom molds). I have the 25s and even still, standing next to a loud drummer for long sets will leave my ears not quite ringing, but definitely fatigued. I believe that the shape of my ear canal may have changed some over time and I have not had them redone yet (it costs the same to redo as the initial cost). I also sometimes use a 25-30 dB foam plug in one ear (closest to drummer) and the molded in my other ear and this works fairly well for me. To those who say just turn down, I say you're fooling yourselves. Drums and cymbals by themselves are loud and can damage your hearing. Throw in a guitar or a few horns and you need ear plugs. Remember that a lot of symphony musicians where custom molded earplugs. If you are not ready to shell out the $100-$200 for custom, contact Mike Dimin ASAP and get some through him. Although I didn't get mine through Mike, I can still recognize a really good deal when I see one. To play in any sort of band and not have earplugs at least available is a risk no musician should ever take.

read through this entire post and ordered two pairs of ER-20s from michael, might look into the custom ones a bit later in the year.

well I commend Michael on very fast service, had my ER-20 over the weekend and practiced with them yesterday with the band with great results.

Such a great topic!

My first experience with ringing in the ears was after the Joe Cocker (Mad Dogs and Englishmen Tour) concert I saw. After that I was more aware of loud volumes and what it could do.

In bands later on, I never use ear protection (as a guitarist - I play both) because of the lower volumes. I'd still get the occassional 'eyeball shoved sideways' experience but it was usually caused by cymbal crash or just about anything done with a pang, which was real popular for awhile.

Later on, in a houseband situation (again as a guitarist) I began to notice the ringing. We didn't play very loud, and the sets were typical 45 on 15 off, but it was there. I bought a pair of the pink ribbed things but gave up with them after just a few songs. They hurt my ears. The problem still was not solved until one night after washing and drying my hands before a set. I had a semi-damp sheet of that brownish paper towel in my hands and decided to just give it a try. I broke off a couple of corners, formed them into little cones and stuffed them in my ears. I can't recommend it because of the slight dampness being introduced into the ear canal, but I gave it a try.

I found that the little cones formed themselves to the shape of my ear and dried quickly in that shape. It felt like there was nothing in there at all. The interesting thing was though, that at first everything was muffled. At the end of the set it seemed I could hear everything as clear as crystal. It reminded me of something someone once told me about the ear having this incredible dynamic range -- going from being able to hear a mosquito, all the way to hearing thunder and not being too damaged. Great headroom in other words. I thought about it and realized that when the earplugs were in, it was almost as if my ears 'turned up' in sensitivity to compensate. I could hear conversations, the audience, my band members -- like I said, it was like not having them in there at all.

And when I'd remove them after the set it was like everything was 'too' clear, too crisp and defined. Like being underwater and then breaking the surface and you hear the crispness of the sound of the waves and whatever.

I took to using these kinds of improv'd plug constantly. I'm subject to head colds and sinus problems but never had any that were caused by the slightly damp plugs.

One other benefit of wearing earplugs - at least to me - was more psychological. See, I'm not a very 'loud' person. I never fit the typical 'rock guitarist' profile. I was always scared of playing too loud and having a too upfront sort of sound. It made me really self conscious and really made my playing unsure at times. I mean, when we practice with records, we get used to playing softly so we can hear the record, and on stage it's a completely different mix Standing on a stage with your stack behind you sort of singles out your own sound obviously, and I'd turn down to try and match the volume of the others. We didn't have side-fills and didn't have anything but vocals in the floor monitors. I'd wind up playing too softly, though the PA guy could make it sound even off stage.

But with the plugs in and my amp turned up, it brought my own sound down to a level that I could feel confident with. I mean, at least to me, I'd almost rather not hear what I'm doing - or hear it just slightly above the rest of the sound - so I can feel more confident about things. If there's a mistake, when it's loud in your ear, it sorta stings you for a moment; you go 'damn...' and then your back trying to hear what's in your head. With things mixed down with the plugs, the mistakes are more quickly gotten over - plus, you can hear the 'inner music' more clearly and follow it. It makes it more like an intimate thing instead of blaring out at you.

Just some personal thoughts, but that thing about the ears 'turning up' still happens, and all else in this thread is completely valid and valuable.

It's just that I have to smile when people say, "Well, I won't be able to hear the music if I wear plugs" because if you use them long enough, the answer is, "Yah, you can."

From the last post: "It's just that I have to smile when people say, "Well, I won't be able to hear the music if I wear plugs"" - actually the opposite is the truth. If you don't wear plugs you stand a real chance of not being able to hear the music at a later point in life. For those of you that are real young, you may not think of this as a big deal. But when you're 80, you'll still be the same person in many ways and I'm sure you'll at least still want to hear music and it may be even more important to you when you're older because you may have other limitations that prevent you from enjoying other things in life (such as skateboards...). I plan to be still playing the bass as it no longer sounds that far away.

At the suggestion of Will C., I am pulling this topic from another thread. Will and I both feel it might benefit some musicians here who do not use ear plugs.

I have done irreparable damage to my ears and I DID use ear plugs. But I'd probably be stone deaf if I hadn't used them. As it is, I have permanent tinnitis. What is that? I'll tell you...it is a permanent high frequency ringing in my ears twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week. It never stops. What I have to do is try to "cover" it up by running an electric fan or always having a TV or CD-player on.

How did it come about? Well I was in a heavy metal band that rehearsed at full volume and played at full volume, so hours and hours of aural assalt added up unrelentingly and insidiously. I'm talking about two Marshall stacks at full tilt and my bass stack at full tilt, plus the drums being pounded at max to compete with all our sonic blasting.

I wore earplugs. I had to or my head would ache. I used Sonic II plugs, the ones that come in the nifty plastic carrying case. Anyway, the others in the band, refused to use plugs. They believed that the plugs were "so NOT cool." Not cool looking. Not cool for blocking out damaging frequencies of sound.

Here's the deal though. High frequencies ( two distorted guitars) damage in the short run, but damage worse if the high levels are sustained over hours. And the damage is permanent. Once you have tinnitis, there is no road back.

In short, if you must play in that kind of environment, use the BEST earplugs you can afford. Cotton just doesn't do the trick. And seriously question the need to rehearse at "eleven" on the Marshalls all the time. Turn that equipment down, for crying out loud! If one musician turns up, then the others have to turn up to be heard. What you get is each one playing at max. For what? So you can be heard a block away?

Take care of your ears. They are a musician's best friends. Jason Oldsted

I'm being serious when I say I wish the other members of my band would hear this. Especially the drummer. I had to practice w/out earmuffs or plugs the other day and it sucked.

I'm being serious when I say I wish the other members of my band would hear this. Especially the drummer. I had to practice w/out earmuffs or plugs the other day and it sucked.

forward this thread to the other members in your band. I did that. they checked it out. I ordered two set of the ER-20 and wore one myself and the other guys tested out the other pair. Everyone decided they are a vast improvment over the toilet paper we normally used and everyone will be ordering them too.

From the last post: "It's just that I have to smile when people say, "Well, I won't be able to hear the music if I wear plugs"" - actually the opposite is the truth. If you don't wear plugs you stand a real chance of not being able to hear the music at a later point in life. For those of you that are real young, you may not think of this as a big deal. But when you're 80, you'll still be the same person in many ways and I'm sure you'll at least still want to hear music and it may be even more important to you when you're older because you may have other limitations that prevent you from enjoying other things in life (such as skateboards...). I plan to be still playing the bass as it no longer sounds that far away.

I agree, that's what makes me smile. A smile and a shake of the head, because it's a sad situation.

Those of you who use toilet paper or cotton wool may not be getting the protection you think you are. Those materials will block some frequencies, but not others, so you may still be subjecting your eardrums to hazardous noise levels at some frequencies.

Get proper plugs from a reputable supplier - then you will know for sure.

Those of you who use toilet paper or cotton wool may not be getting the protection you think you are. Those materials will block some frequencies, but not others, so you may still be subjecting your eardrums to hazardous noise levels at some frequencies.

Get proper plugs from a reputable supplier - then you will know for sure.

Actually TP and cotton provide really NO protection at all

Mike

Get proper plugs from a reputable supplier - then you will know for sure.

Truly, the way to go

I bought some ER-20's a year ago and almost never play without them! I use them vacuuming, I'm a janitor. I found ER-20's are much better than foam ear plugs because of the flatter response curve.

although, lately I'm thinking of getting custom mold ear plugs for better comfort and hopefully flatter response still!!

high quality ear plugs for peace of mind and good sound but just lower.

CONTRARY to popular misconceptions you CAN hear the music and the band better than with naked overloaded ears. I can often hear vocal cues and instructions from our band leader when other, non-ear plug, people are saying "what??" "what??"

CONTRARY to popular misconceptions you CAN hear the music and the band better than with naked overloaded ears. I can often hear vocal cues and instructions from our band leader when other, non-ear plug, people are saying "what??" "what??"

That's because it filters out background noise.

Sean

I have been seriously considering getting earplugs, but I do have one question. I'm the lead singer of my band, and the general rule is that if you plug your ears with your fingers, or anything else, your pitch will be lowered be half or even a whole tone.

Does this happen with the custom fitted plugs? If so, is it worth getting in-ear monitors to cover the loud noise, but still hear everything I need to?

I'm sorry if this has been discussed on this thread, but it is 12 pages long, so I just skimmed through each page.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

the general rule is that if you plug your ears with your fingers, or anything else, your pitch will be lowered be half or even a whole tone.


That is just not true

I have been seriously considering getting earplugs, but I do have one question. I'm the lead singer of my band, and the general rule is that if you plug your ears with your fingers, or anything else, your pitch will be lowered be half or even a whole tone.

Does this happen with the custom fitted plugs? If so, is it worth getting in-ear monitors to cover the loud noise, but still hear everything I need to?

I'm sorry if this has been discussed on this thread, but it is 12 pages long, so I just skimmed through each page.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
I can understand the sound being different, and having a greater proportion of lower harmonics, because you will be hearing your voice by bone conduction, not air vibration, but I cannot see any reason why you would suddenly start singing off key.

Unless of course you always did, but only heard it when you put your fingers in your ears :D

I got sick and tired of going to see bands play and the next day not being able to hear anything. Practicing was also killing my hearing, so out come the plugs. We have to wear them at work, they are they foam "barrel type" plugs that you shove in your ear, so I can get as many as I want for free. Now when I goto a show, I'll put them in, cool, or not cool, I don't care, I can hear later that night on the way home, and the next day. When I play a show, I keep them in for the other bands, but when I play, I have to have them out, so I can get a better read on whats going on around me. Same with practice. 5 hours with them in, then 1 time through the set so I can get a better feel for the music.

Earplugs, don't leave home without them!

I wore my new earplugs (ER-20s from Mike Dimin) to the Franz Ferdinand concert last night, and they worked perfectly. I heard perfectly after the concert with absolutley no ringing and I'm hearing perfectly now with no problems.

My friend said his hears were bothering him after the concert. I think we may have another convert.

Ear plugs are the real deal!

But I recommend Musicians ear plugs because foam ear plugs mostly just muffle the sound.

Also, with the ER-20s, talking and singing is a problem with them in; I haven't figured out a way around that besides taking one or both them out.

And don't think you just need them for the loudest of concerts. In my research, I remember reading that you should even use them at Jazz concerts! And in addition to concerts, I would recommend using them at movie theaters and sporting events (i.e. the crowd can get pretty loud at a Jets game, especially the guy yelling in my ear behind me :rollno: :p )

Sean

just want to do a little bit of price checking here with those of you who know this kind of thing... ive been wearing my 12db cut hearos for almost a year now, but there are some times that i just cant wear them so im going for the custom fitted etymotic musician's earplugs. the first place i called said they would charge $50 just for impressions or $165 for the pair of earplugs (impressions included). if i wanted an audiogram that would be $45- 65 more. the second place said that they would charge about $25 for the impressions by themselves or i can just pay $120 for the pair of earplugs (impressions included) and an audiogram would be about $25 assuming the audiologist found no problems. (Im only 15 here, there shouldnt be too much wrong.) obviously audiologist A is trying to rip me off...are the prices i was quoted for audiologist B fair or should i keep shopping around. the $120 sounds pretty good so i would probably end up buying the plugs from them too. oh and the only reason i ever started wearing ear plugs was because of this thread. im stepping up my musical "career" a little so i decided to step up my hearing protection too.

thanks.

Both of those prices are within the "norms". Audiologist A is not ripping you off. If you have health insurance, that should cover the audiogram. An audiogram is a really good thing to have. Even if there are no problems, it gives you a baseline to check against future audiograms and have the ability to monitor any hearing loss. Just because you are 15 that does not mean there are no problems. Ear infections as a kid, loud noise (like playing or listening to loud music), Shooting (do you hunt?) etc can cause hearing loss. Those problems should not change the cost of an audiogram, only if there is something needed after that. An audiologist is a medical professional, I would shop reputation over price. Lousy impressions will not create the needed seal, affect the quality of the sound (if they are not deep enough) and affect your comfort.

It is great that you are going to do it, but IF Aud A is better than paying an extra $40 over the life of the Earplugs is minor. You might want to find out if either of these audiologists can get the molds from Sensaphonics out of Chicago, they use a mold material that is softer and more comfortable than some of the other companies

Mike

Just ordered a pair of the ER-20's going on the high recommendations, hopefully now I wont go deaf :)

thanks mike, for some reason i never got the email saying there was a response until TheBaron posted. i will check on the sensaphonics thing. you said health insurance would cover the audiogram...since you seem to be well educated on the subject, you wouldnt know if they would cover any of the cost of the earplugs...would they? my mom wants to get the earplugs for me because she thinks its good that im willing to wear them, but my parents are going through a divorce right now which means that my dad has to pay for his apartment and stuff which limits our excess spending. ive been wearing my er-20's since i started my musical career about 8 months ago probably. the only thing that sucks is i dont want to wear them at more formal occasions (i have one of those about once a week) and i have such sensitive ears that even the low volumes we are playing at make my ears ring afterwards. with the custom earplugs i wont have those stems hanging out of my ears anymore and that is a definite advantage. i know the more expensive audiologist said they got their molds from Great Lakes Earmold Lab but i dont remember where the other one said they got them from. the more expensive one wasnt half as knowledgable as the other one though. thanks for the input.

The cost of my earplugs wasn't covered under my medical insurance here... not to say yours won't cover it, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

...since you seem to be well educated on the subject, you wouldnt know if they would cover any of the cost of the earplugs...would they?

There are so many different insurance plans out there it is hard to say, but I would have to guess that they would not be covered.

Mike

Does anyone with tinnitus think that they have a harder time figuring out what a bassist or guitarist is playing by ear? Are relative pitch abilities affected at all by tinnitus, or is it harder to discern different pitches?

I recently tried custom molded musicians earplugs (with etymotic baffels) one mold worked great and the other kept exerting pressure somewhere inside my ear canal. I was going to get a new left mold when the right ear, that was working great tore right near the baffel, so I had both redone. will get them back soon.

whats my point??? I was almost thinking of going back to the ER-20s for music (still use them for work). however, the audiologist wasn't sure he could refund my money if I wanted out of the deal after failed molds. he made the second molds at no charge. just a heads up for those who might regret spending $150 and not being satisfied.

The ER-20s are a great deal over foam plugs or expensive molded ear plugs.

I wish that years ago I had had sense enough to use ear protection... I too have tinnitis... as well as a 70% hearing loss.... :( Too many years of "dimed-out" Marshall backlines, 50,000 watt sound reinforcement systems and sitting betwen cranked studio monitors did irreversable damage to my ears and many others in my generation.
For all you young guns out there, save your ears while you still can. Use professional quality ear plugs designed for our craft.... they aren't that expensive. After all, how much do you spend on strings in just one year?