I want to build my next bass as a fanned fret headless. It seems most of the headless bridges have the bridge portion attached to the tuner, so won't work for a fanned fret.

Does anyone know of a reasonably priced headless tuner assembly which doesn't have the bridge attached?

If not I'll probably have to build my own. It shouldn't be a problem, but one thing I'm not too sure of is how much travel is actually required for the tuner.

If anyone here has a Steinberger or something, could you do a huge favour and measure the difference in position between the string being loose (when you install the string), to it being up to pitch (whichever string takes the most adjustment.

-Nick

I want to build my next bass as a fanned fret headless. It seems most of the headless bridges have the bridge portion attached to the tuner, so won't work for a fanned fret.

Does anyone know of a reasonably priced headless tuner assembly which doesn't have the bridge attached?

If not I'll probably have to build my own. It shouldn't be a problem, but one thing I'm not too sure of is how much travel is actually required for the tuner.

If anyone here has a Steinberger or something, could you do a huge favour and measure the difference in position between the string being loose (when you install the string), to it being up to pitch (whichever string takes the most adjustment.

-Nick


I've built a few sets of headless tuners. If you check out this thread there are some pictures and info about how I did it on this particular bass. Good luck!:D
-Scott
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=342555&page=4

Does anyone know of a reasonably priced headless tuner assembly which doesn't have the bridge attached?

would individual bridge pieces / tuners work? status sell these:

http://www.status-graphite.com/

would individual bridge pieces / tuners work? status sell these:

http://www.status-graphite.com/

Good luck getting those any time soon!

would individual bridge pieces / tuners work? status sell these:

http://www.status-graphite.com/

Good luck getting those any time soon!

Yeah, I'd considered something like that, though they are a tad pricey, and "Temporarily unavailable"

-Nick

Edit: Actually, screw pricey.. I'd probably grab them anyways, if I could get them.

You should e-mail Status. Rob Green is always extremely kind and helpful and I'm sure he will help you.

There was another thread somewhere (and I can't remember whether it was here or projectguitar.com) where someone else had a little tutorial on making headless tuners. I found it via google originally, but I haven't been able to dig it up again. It had a bunch of illustrations done in what looked like MS Paint. Anyone remeber this?

There was another thread somewhere (and I can't remember whether it was here or projectguitar.com) where someone else had a little tutorial on making headless tuners. I found it via google originally, but I haven't been able to dig it up again. It had a bunch of illustrations done in what looked like MS Paint. Anyone remeber this?

That was me it went something like this:

Ok heres goes, any questions just let me know, I think its all in order :D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/7.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/8.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/9.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/10.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/11.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/12.jpg


Maybe a mod could sticky it or add it to the tutorials??


The whole thread can be found at the link below.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=288131&page=2

You should e-mail Status. Rob Green is always extremely kind and helpful and I'm sure he will help you.

I sent a message from their web page. No word yet.

That was me it went something like this:

Ok heres goes, any questions just let me know, I think its all in order :D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/7.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/8.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/9.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/10.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/11.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/scottyd/12.jpg


Maybe a mod could sticky it or add it to the tutorials??


The whole thread can be found at the link below.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=288131&page=2

Yeah, I had a very similar plan in mind already. The thing that I still needed to decide on is the length of travel necessary.

Did you solder the threaded rod to the string holding part? Otherwise I'd worry about it unscrewing when loosening to change strings etc. Wouldn't be a big deal if it did fall apart, but better if it doesn't.

How far do yours adjust from fully loose to fully tight. Is the adjustment excessive, and could be made a bit smaller, or just right?

-Nick

Did you solder the threaded rod to the string holding part? Otherwise I'd worry about it unscrewing when loosening to change strings etc. Wouldn't be a big deal if it did fall apart, but better if it doesn't.


If you did that, it wouldn't work! The string tensioner moves along the threads to adjust the tension.

Alternatively, you could thread the holes in the 'tuner body', but you'd need to allow the threaded rod to rotate freely AND apply axial force to the string tensioner (i.e. using c-clips or something). And then you'd have the disadvantage that the knobs would also move axially as you threaded them in and out.

Asad

If you did that, it wouldn't work! The string tensioner moves along the threads to adjust the tension.

Alternatively, you could thread the holes in the 'tuner body', but you'd need to allow the threaded rod to rotate freely AND apply axial force to the string tensioner (i.e. using c-clips or something). And then you'd have the disadvantage that the knobs would also move axially as you threaded them in and out.

Asad

No, I believe the threads stay stationary, and the adjuster nut moves, pulling the threaded rod in. That makes more sense to me anyways. You could have it attached at the adjustment nut instead, but then the part that holds the string would need to be longer to give the rod somewhere thread into when you tighten it, instead of out into the nut, which is wasted space anyhow.

-Nick

No, I believe the threads stay stationary, and the adjuster nut moves, pulling the threaded rod in. That makes more sense to me anyways. You could have it attached at the adjustment nut instead, but then the part that holds the string would need to be longer to give the rod somewhere thread into when you tighten it, instead of out into the nut, which is wasted space anyhow.

-Nick

In that design the string holder is stationary, the knob actually acts as a nut to pull it back. The needed travel it takes to pull a string is about 1/2" at the most. To answer you other question, I use lock tight on the threads of the string holder to make sure the holder does not back out whenever the strings are loosened. I've also used a jam nut which works well too. Good luck!:D

You could also try ETS...

In that design the string holder is stationary, the knob actually acts as a nut to pull it back. The needed travel it takes to pull a string is about 1/2" at the most. To answer you other question, I use lock tight on the threads of the string holder to make sure the holder does not back out whenever the strings are loosened. I've also used a jam nut which works well too. Good luck!:D

Cool. I'll probably just stake it with a prick punch. That's probably the quickest way to keep it in place It shouldn't ever have that much resistance on it. Should be a piece of cake.

Now that I know the travel needed I can make it a sane size too.
That was really the biggest question. I'm trying to build a fairly compact bass (I'd like this one to fit in a standard case), so I didn't want an unnecessarily large bridge wasting space.

You could also try ETS...

Any links for this one? Especially anyone where I can buy it from who potentially has stock?

Cool. I'll probably just stake it with a prick punch. That's probably the quickest way to keep it in place It shouldn't ever have that much resistance on it. Should be a piece of cake.

Now that I know the travel needed I can make it a sane size too.
That was really the biggest question. I'm trying to build a fairly compact bass (I'd like this one to fit in a standard case), so I didn't want an unnecessarily large bridge wasting space.



Any links for this one? Especially anyone where I can buy it from who potentially has stock?

Glad that helped, When you string the bass up if you pull the string tension as tight as possible by hand before locking the retainer at the head piece you'll be suprised on how little it takes to pull the stings to tune.:D The only thing is each string requires a different amount. Some as little as 1/4" but 1/2" will give you plenty of play room. Be sure to post pics!!:bassist:

Glad that helped, When you string the bass up if you pull the string tension as tight as possible by hand before locking the retainer at the head piece you'll be suprised on how little it takes to pull the stings to tune.:D The only thing is each string requires a different amount. Some as little as 1/4" but 1/2" will give you plenty of play room. Be sure to post pics!!:bassist:

I will post pics of course. That's in the range I expected, but it's good to have confirmation. A lot of work to go through to find out you're 1/16" short.

-Nick

http://ets-hardware.com/

They are based in Germany. Everything is made to order...

I went through Greg Holmes of GH Services in Canada...

http://ghservices.com/

He is a dealer for Basslab Basses in North America. They have some readily available string locks too...

Keep in mind that ETS is slow... I waited about 8 months for my hardware if I remember correctly...

No, I believe the threads stay stationary, and the adjuster nut moves, pulling the threaded rod in. That makes more sense to me anyways. You could have it attached at the adjustment nut instead, but then the part that holds the string would need to be longer to give the rod somewhere thread into when you tighten it, instead of out into the nut, which is wasted space anyhow.

-Nick

Yep, you're absolutely right, I didn't understand the drawings. Clever design.

Asad

http://ets-hardware.com/

They are based in Germany. Everything is made to order...

I went through Greg Holmes of GH Services in Canada...

http://ghservices.com/

He is a dealer for Basslab Basses in North America. They have some readily available string locks too...

Keep in mind that ETS is slow... I waited about 8 months for my hardware if I remember correctly...

Well, considering I plan on having the bass done within 3-4 months tops, I guess I'll just build my own.

I really feel weird about spending a few hundred bucks on bridges anyways.

-Nick

You should e-mail Status. Rob Green is always extremely kind and helpful and I'm sure he will help you.

I did get a reply from him. He says he's working on getting an improved version, but no timeframe yet.

I'll be going the DIY route at this point. I don't want to pay $65 a piece for the ABMs from allparts.

There is one on ebay that I'm almost tempted to try, but I have a feeling it's probably junk. http://cgi.ebay.ca/Bass-Electric-Guitar-Bridge-for-headless-bass-New_W0QQitemZ200237159301QQihZ010QQcategoryZ4713QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Has anyone tried one of these? I found a post about a "starfire" headless bass. One of the replies said that he owned the same bass under a different brand ant that the bridge was really terrible.

It looks to me like the same bridge, so I'll steer clear, unless anyone has tried one and can tell me otherwise (it would save a lot of work).

Of course I couldn't do a fanned fret with that, but that's low on my list of criteria for this bass anyways.

-Nick

I bought one of those bridges, mostly for the hell of it, figuring it would be a total piece of crap. Surprisingly, it doesn't appear to be too bad. My complaint is with the headpiece; next to none of my strings fit correctly in the grooves because of the core wire doubling back after going around the ball end underneath the wrapping, but a little filing could fix that. What it doesn't show you is that you need to route out a space for the bridge to sit properly on a body; but the knobs extend outward if you pull on them, which makes for easier tuning of individual strings. I haven't used my bridge yet so I can't comment on how well it stands up to use.

I bought one of those bridges, mostly for the hell of it, figuring it would be a total piece of crap. Surprisingly, it doesn't appear to be too bad. My complaint is with the headpiece; next to none of my strings fit correctly in the grooves because of the core wire doubling back after going around the ball end underneath the wrapping, but a little filing could fix that. What it doesn't show you is that you need to route out a space for the bridge to sit properly on a body; but the knobs extend outward if you pull on them, which makes for easier tuning of individual strings. I haven't used my bridge yet so I can't comment on how well it stands up to use.

Ahh, good to know. One of the complaint i read was that it's too hard to turn the knobs under tension. There's no way to know though whether the OP and the person replying were talking about the same bass. The reply said that it was the same bass, under a different name, but who knows for sure without some closeup pictures.

A lot of that cheap "made in Taiwan" gear is like that. Various parts get reused, but it's possible that the two "manufacturers" could be buying their bodies from the same place, but using different bridges, etc.

The routing actually makes some sense, but is definitely enough reason for me to not want to use that bridge, until I've heard from someone who's used one, or I've got a junker bass to play with. I'd hate to route out a chunk of wood from a good bass, and then find out that it's not suitable.

If you've got the time, maybe just screw your bridge to a chunk of 2x4 with a moderately long scale length (maybe 36" or so) and see if you can bring it to pitch. If it works well, and doesn't get too stiff, or break I'm sure there's a lot of people who would like to know. It seems near impossible to find any kind of reasonably priced headless bridge, but those ones seem pretty common on ebay for around $50.

-Nick

I quickly nailed the bridge and string holder to a piece of (s)crap pine I found in my garage tonight and stuck a high C string into them for testing (I didn't have any other available strings). I tuned it up to about the correct pitch with little problem, though the tuning knobs did get stiffer as you went higher; this was at an approximate 36" scale. After it was at a C I tuned it as high as I could, and the tuners got pretty stiff at about a whole step higher (D) and the string broke around an E. The tuners were never so stiff you couldn't turn them, but they did get stiffer. I would say it's an alright system for a frankenbass (what I bought it for). Hope that helps. :)

I quickly nailed the bridge and string holder to a piece of (s)crap pine I found in my garage tonight and stuck a high C string into them for testing (I didn't have any other available strings). I tuned it up to about the correct pitch with little problem, though the tuning knobs did get stiffer as you went higher; this was at an approximate 36" scale. After it was at a C I tuned it as high as I could, and the tuners got pretty stiff at about a whole step higher (D) and the string broke around an E. The tuners were never so stiff you couldn't turn them, but they did get stiffer. I would say it's an alright system for a frankenbass (what I bought it for). Hope that helps. :)

Cool, thanks for testing it. The high C is probably one of the more tense strings anyways, so is a good test. I'll have to keep it in mind.

I think I'm going to try and build my own first, but it's good to know that that'll work if mine doesn't.

No problem! I'll let you know how it holds up when I use that piece on an actual project if you're still interested.

I bought one of those headeless bass sets off Ebay and it's not bad, especially for the money. One feature I like is that the tuner holds the string just like a standard tuning key, no set screw to clamp the string. The way it's built, you could easily cut off the bridge portion and be left with a separate tuner section. This is what I am concidering doing, but my build on this is a few months out, so I'm still thinking about what's the best approach for my project. (I have 3 other projects in the queue ahead of that one.)

Okay, now the next question is what to use for a bridge.

scottyd: I noticed in one of your other threads you posted a link to some nice simple very cheap lock down type saddles. Unfortunately they appear to be out of stock. Do you know of anywhere else that has something similar? When I look for saddles, all I can find are conventional screw type ones, which won't work too well with the way I plan to do the tuners.
EDIT: Oh yeah, it's the thread you just linked..

Another thing I considered is just machining a free-floating saddle with a fairly large base on it so it wouldn't tip over. I'd probably just do a flat base plate to keep it from marking up the wood when I adjust it.

Like a single-string version of the old floating bridge.

Any thoughts? Anyone tried this?

-Nick

Okay, now the next question is what to use for a bridge.

scottyd: I noticed in one of your other threads you posted a link to some nice simple very cheap lock down type saddles. Unfortunately they appear to be out of stock. Do you know of anywhere else that has something similar? When I look for saddles, all I can find are conventional screw type ones, which won't work too well with the way I plan to do the tuners.
EDIT: Oh yeah, it's the thread you just linked..

Another thing I considered is just machining a free-floating saddle with a fairly large base on it so it wouldn't tip over. I'd probably just do a flat base plate to keep it from marking up the wood when I adjust it.

Like a single-string version of the old floating bridge.

Any thoughts? Anyone tried this?

-Nick

They are indeed out of stock. I have not been able to find them anywhere else. The only solution I've found if you want those saddles is to buy a cheapo Ebay bridge that has them. They usually run about 20 bucks for a fiver. Not the best solution, at one time I was buying those saddles for about 2bucks each!:(

They are indeed out of stock. I have not been able to find them anywhere else. The only solution I've found if you want those saddles is to buy a cheapo Ebay bridge that has them. They usually run about 20 bucks for a fiver. Not the best solution, at one time I was buying those saddles for about 2bucks each!:(

Yeah. Bass #3's going to be a 12 string tapper, so that's starting to turn into real money (still not awful, I suppose)

I'll probably just make my own. it shouldn't be too hard to just do a dual set-screw saddle that sits in a block, same as those. Ideally I'd like a little closer spacing than the standard ebay bridge usually has.

I'm wondering how important the lock down screw is. I'm thinking not very. Hypothetically, if a guy just took a bunch of those saddes and tensioned them under the strings sitting directly on the body, would they stay put?

-Nick

Yeah. Bass #3's going to be a 12 string tapper, so that's starting to turn into real money (still not awful, I suppose)

I'll probably just make my own. it shouldn't be too hard to just do a dual set-screw saddle that sits in a block, same as those. Ideally I'd like a little closer spacing than the standard ebay bridge usually has.

I'm wondering how important the lock down screw is. I'm thinking not very. Hypothetically, if a guy just took a bunch of those saddes and tensioned them under the strings sitting directly on the body, would they stay put?

-Nick

Yeah the locks needed on a headless setup, if they are not locked when you tune the string the saddle will move because the string is pulled behind the saddle as opposed to in front.

Yeah the locks needed on a headless setup, if they are not locked when you tune the string the saddle will move because the string is pulled behind the saddle as opposed to in front.

ahh, that's a drag. So I'll either need a lock, or a fairly light break angle, and something to increase the friction. Probably I'll do the lock. Complicates the design a bit. I'll need to machine a proper bridge, rather than a really simple bass plate, maybe just with some grooves to keep things aligned. Makes just buying some cheap single string bridges just for the saddles seem a bit more attractive. I guess I'll give it a go myself, and fall back on that if my machining sucks too much.

-Nick