This is a question that I'm sure many other bass players have had or will have at some point. I'm a pretty well trained bass player, I've played about 15 years and gone to music school and all that jazz. The thing is I'd really like to learn how to play drums. And I don't want to be a hack, I want to get really good or there isn't much point in bothering to me.

I do drum programming for my own recording projects, and I just feel like it really is lacking from what I hear in my head. The only way I see to get those beats out of my head the way I really want them to sound is to play it for real.

So, this is directed to anyone who plays drums reasonably well here. How long did it take you to learn? Given my background, and the fact that I can't play real drums worth anything (never really had much time to try), how long do you think it would take me to get "good enough"?

Also, what do people think of learning on real drums vs. V-drums? Is one easier to start out on? Buying a set of V-drums would certainly be a lot more affordable and easier on my neighbors (and I could hook it up through BFD for recording). There are a lot of different types of V-drums out there too, anyone have recommendations?

Also does anyone know a good drum book to start with? I can read standard notation alright, but I'd prefer not to go with some kind of classical drum method or anything. I want to do something modern (Jojo Mayer is probably my favorite drummer if that means anything).

Thanks for any advice! I just got a new job so I'm eagerly anticipating some more free time to work on music and I think learning drums would be a great thing for me.

First of all you need to learn rudiments. The NARD 26 essential rudiments including singles, doubles, 5 stroke, flams, paradiddles, ruffs, ratamaccues, swiss army triplets, lesson 25, flam taps, 7 stroke and so on. You need to learn sticking techniques including german grip, french grip, traditional grip and so on. If you really want to play drums well I think it's the same advice as for playing bass. Get a good teacher to start. You can also check out this link to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudiments) which has rudiments.

As far as V-Drums go I wouldn't necessarily assume they are cheaper than acoustic drums. If you are talking about the mesh head Roland drums I would say that they are quite good in terms of response since you can adjust the tension of the head. They are also quite responsive with the dynamic control you have over them and depending on the model you can play compressed rolls pretty closely to how you would play them on an acoustic kit. It depends on which line you are going for but a set of V-drums can be as expensive as a set of acoustic drums.

I am an ok drummer, in that I can play what I need to communicate to a drummer if I need to. Once again being able play drums is like anything else. The more work you put in the better you get. Some books you should probably look at other than learning the 26 rudiments are "The Rhythm Book" by Alex Pertout, which is a good rhythm book for any musician, and Bill Brufords "When in Doubt.. Roll". there are a lot of drumming books out there though.

I should probably also mention that I write pretty much all of the drum parts for my band which includes compound time signatures, polyrythms, snare cadence and so on right down to fills, ride and hi hat patterns. I pretty much expect the parts to be played as I write them, so it is definitely of benefit if you are able to understand what you are writing from the point of view of someone sitting at a real drum kit. Especially if you want them to play what you write.

First of all you need to learn rudiments.

Boring. screw all that. I've been playing drums almost as long as bass. You don't need to know a bunch of rudiments and grips to become a good drummer. Dave Grohl certainly doesn't. Just get yourself a kit, and start banging away. Get a feel for it. Then maybe rent some beginner's dvds (books won't help a beginner). It's all about putting in the time, creating muscle memory and feeling comfortable.

As far as V drums - you might as well program, then.

Yeah well, it depends on whether you want to be taken seriously as a drummer and play well as the OP asked. You don't need to know theory to play bass either but if you want to communicate ideas and know what you are talking about learning theory is important. I know that I would never hire a drummer that told me rudiments are boring and that you don't need them. My answer would be " to be in this band you do".

Also learning rudiments and sticking are very important factors in making sure you are using correct technique that won't give you RSI or other injuries in the long run. It's also painfully obvious you don't know much about V-drums. Listen to "Emergent" by Gordian Knot and I doubt you could tell me which tracks are acoustic and which are V-drums

By the way Dave Grohl might be a great drummer to you, but he's not Simon Philips, is he? Also what makes you think he doesn't know his rudiments?

Yeah well, it depends on whether you want to be taken seriously as a drummer and play well as the OP asked.

I take any good, creative, enthusiastic musician seriously, regardless of technical background or knowledge of thoery. I'd take a drummer with zero theory over some anal rudiment nazi anyday as long as he can lay it down! Can I get an amen, JB?

And I don't think the OP is asking or expecting to be Simon Philips, either. So all the tech talk is a little overkill for someone who probably hasn't spent more than 5 mins in a drum throne (no offense, OP!).

Listen to "Emergent" by Gordian Knot and I doubt you could tell me which tracks are acoustic and which are V-drums

Not talking about sound quality. Talking about feel.

By the way Dave Grohl might be a great drummer to you, but he's not Simon Philips, is he? Also what makes you think he doesn't know his rudiments?

Dave Grohl's not my bag. Just an example of how natural ability, natural rhythm, feeling, and musicality can get you just as far (if not farther) than a theory book. It's a well-known fact (or at least a poplular rumor) that Grohl never "studied" drumming, and can't even do double strokes.

Whatver, just different schools of thought. Did someone say drum-off?!

I should probably also mention that I write pretty much all of the drum parts for my band which includes compound time signatures, polyrythms, snare cadence and so on right down to fills, ride and hi hat patterns. I pretty much expect the parts to be played as I write them, so it is definitely of benefit if you are able to understand what you are writing from the point of view of someone sitting at a real drum kit. Especially if you want them to play what you write.

You might also point out that your projects are all solo.

I wouldn't want to sit through a rehearsal with you. The Macbook playing back the Garage Band tracks doesn't have an opinion, though.

You might also point out that your projects are all solo.

I wouldn't want to sit through a rehearsal with you. The Macbook playing back the Garage Band tracks doesn't have an opinion, though.

Shows, as usual, what you know about anything.

I take any good, creative, enthusiastic musician seriously, regardless of technical background or knowledge of thoery. I'd take a drummer with zero theory over some anal rudiment nazi anyday as long as he can lay it down! Can I get an amen, JB?

And I don't think the OP is asking or expecting to be Simon Philips, either. So all the tech talk is a little overkill for someone who probably hasn't spent more than 5 mins in a drum throne (no offense, OP!).



Not talking about sound quality. Talking about feel.



Dave Grohl's not my bag. Just an example of how natural ability, natural rhythm, feeling, and musicality can get you just as far (if not farther) than a theory book. It's a well-known fact (or at least a poplular rumor) that Grohl never "studied" drumming, and can't even do double strokes.

Whatver, just different schools of thought. Did someone say drum-off?!

Yeah, I am talking about the feel too. Once again you obviously don't know much about V-drums. The feel comes from the person playing. You going to tell me that Bill Bruford has no feel on "Discipline", back when he was playing simmon's pads?

As for popular rumours, that just rests my case. You are making unfounded comments based on conjecture.

I reiterate that learning rudiments will set the OP up for good sound technical playing that will not only benefit what he can play, on any level, it will also help to ensure that he plays with sound technique that prevents injury in the long term.

The advice you are giving the OP is the typical lazy, shortage mentality reassurance to not bother doing anything properly. Fact of the matter is that good drummers, and especially ones that want to communicate their ideas to others, do know rudiments and proper technique. Just like good bassplayers understand relative tonal theory and technique.

I broke my ankle and had to do something for physical therapy....so I started the drums! The great thing about drums is that its like playing bass but you don't have to worry about intonation, you want to play a melody with the drums you can do it. Keep the left foot on the highhat and you can have more freedom on the rest of the drums. I use to learn roles on a pillow - if you can do them there you can do them on the drum. Also I learned to tap out beats on my chest with my hands when I'm sitting on the couch etc. Good luck, plus one of my teachers at Berklee always said playing on the drums is great for playing bass. Sometimes I play bass and the drums at the same time!

I reiterate that learning rudiments will set the OP up for good sound technical playing that will not only benefit what he can play, on any level, it will also help to ensure that he plays with sound technique that prevents injury in the long term.

The advice you are giving the OP is the typical lazy, shortage mentality reassurance to not bother doing anything properly. Fact of the matter is that good drummers, and especially ones that want to communicate their ideas to others, do know rudiments and proper technique. Just like good bassplayers understand relative tonal theory and technique.

Playing the drums is not rocket science. And if you're special enough to injure yourself from playing the drums, maybe a kazoo's more your speed.

I apologize to the OP for the thread hijack. I guess you can't have a opinion around someone who thinks they know everything!

Best advice I can give you is to watch other drummers. That's a great way to get started and to improve. That's why I suggested getting some DVDs. Beyond that, like with anything, time and practice will get you there. How much, you ask?

A friend of mine, who played guitar for years, started messing around on the drums one day, and six months later he was the new drummer for the Brian Jonestown Masacre. I was a quick learner as well. But ymmv. Time and practice, grasshopper.

Playing the drums is not rocket science. And if you're special enough to injure yourself from playing the drums, maybe a kazoo's more your speed.

I apologize to the OP for the thread hijack. I guess you can't have a opinion around someone who thinks they know everything!

Best advice I can give you is to watch other drummers. That's a great way to get started and to improve. That's why I suggested getting some DVDs. Beyond that, like with anything, time and practice will get you there. How much, you ask?

A friend of mine, who played guitar for years, started messing around on the drums one day, and six months later he was the new drummer for the Brian Jonestown Masacre. I was a quick learner as well. But ymmv. Time and practice, grasshopper.

I'll let you answer yourself

Boring.

+1

Playing the drums is not rocket science. And if you're special enough to injure yourself from playing the drums, maybe a kazoo's more your speed.

I apologize to the OP for the thread hijack. I guess you can't have a opinion around someone who thinks they know everything!

Best advice I can give you is to watch other drummers. That's a great way to get started and to improve. That's why I suggested getting some DVDs. Beyond that, like with anything, time and practice will get you there. How much, you ask?

A friend of mine, who played guitar for years, started messing around on the drums one day, and six months later he was the new drummer for the Brian Jonestown Masacre. I was a quick learner as well. But ymmv. Time and practice, grasshopper.


Do you understand that a bad technique can cause repetitive motion injuries? It does happen and it isn't something to be taking lightly.

I have played the drums for longer than I play the bass, that is, 8 years. I can play most stuff I hear, even things like Rush, etc. I have never ever learned any rudiment or any of those other boring stuff. Totally self taught. Watch a lot of videos of other drummers, live shows, buy a kit and mess around. It took me two years until I could play Iron Maiden stuff.

I have played the drums for longer than I play the bass, that is, 8 years. I can play most stuff I hear, even things like Rush, etc. I have never ever learned any rudiment or any of those other boring stuff. Totally self taught. Watch a lot of videos of other drummers, live shows, buy a kit and mess around. It took me two years until I could play Iron Maiden stuff.

Oh yeah so I guess you know what rudiment Neil Peart is playing at the beginning of "Force Ten" then.

Oh yeah so I guess you know what rudiment Neil Peart is playing at the beginning of "Force Ten" then.

I don't know. But I can play it. I won't get into smart ass
arguments. I just wanted to help the thread starter.

I don't know. But I can play it. I won't get into smart ass
arguments. I just wanted to help the thread starter.

Actually no, if you don't know the rudiment you can't play it. What you are saying is that you can play your approximation of it based on guessing. Which in my mind is just playing poorly. As far as I can tell the Op asked how to play drums well.

I don't know how telling them to take the easy road and be lazy is helping them at all.

Actually no, if you don't know the rudiment you can't play it. What you are saying is that you can play your approximation of it based on guessing. Which in my mind is just playing poorly. As far as I can tell the Op asked how to play drums well.

I don't know how telling them to take the easy road and be lazy is helping them at all.

I agree with you on this. If the drummer wants to learn to play well he needs to memorize every rudiment on this site.

http://www.drumnetwork.com/rudi1.htm

I agree with you on this. If the drummer wants to learn to play well he needs to memorize every rudiment on this site.

http://www.drumnetwork.com/rudi1.htm

Here is the thing. Say for example I go into a drum shop or ask a professional drummer the question "I want to learn to play drums well, what do you suggest I do?"

Do you think their advice will be a. "Learn rudiments and sticking and apply it to the kit"?
Or will it be b. "Just sit down and play and don't bother with that boring theory garbage"?

Hmmm..I wonder.

Here is the thing. Say for example I go into a drum shop or ask a professional drummer the question "I want to learn to play drums well, what do you suggest I do?"

Do you think their advice will be a. "Learn rudiments and sticking and apply it to the kit"?
Or will it be b. "Just sit down and play and don't bother with that boring theory garbage"?

Hmmm..I wonder.

That's obvious. The dunce at the shop will be like "don't bother with the theory garbage," but the professional (and I don't mean some rock and roll drummer dolt) will probably recommend rudimentary studies.

That's obvious. The dunce at the shop will be like "don't bother with the theory garbage" but the professional (and I don't mean some rock and roll drummer dolt) will probably recommend rudimentary studies.

Well that might be true too, they don't employ the brightest people in drum shops generally and they only care about making sales. On the other hand some drum shops do have professional staff that would give thoughtful advice.

Actually no, if you don't know the rudiment you can't play it. What you are saying is that you can play your approximation of it based on guessing. Which in my mind is just playing poorly. As far as I can tell the Op asked how to play drums well.

I don't know how telling them to take the easy road and be lazy is helping them at all.

The OP wanted advice from folks who play the drums well. You yourself said you were just an "ok drummer." This elitist view of yours, coming from a self-described "ok drummer," is pretty unwarranted. So maybe you need to cut down on the bullying, and go practice your precious rudiments.

Thing is, people go about things differently, and what may seem lazy and unprofessional to you, is actually inspiring and more fulfilling to others. And that should be respected. That's all I got to say about that.

Catch you cats on the flip-flop. I got music that needs playing.

The OP wanted advice from folks who play the drums well. You yourself said you were just an "ok drummer." This elitist view of yours, coming from a self-described "ok drummer," is pretty unwarranted. So maybe you need to cut down on the bullying, and go practice your precious rudiments.

Thing is, people go about things differently, and what may seem lazy and unprofessional to you, is actually inspiring and more fulfilling to others. And that should be respected. That's all I got to say about that.

Catch you cats on the flip-flop. I got music that needs playing.

I don't know where someone who is too lazy to learn to play properly is really in much of a position to make a judgement on what me saying I am an ok drummer really means.

If you feel bullied it's only because you want to justify this bad advice you seem so intent on giving people. Having differing modus operandi is one thing. Telling people that it's good to be lazy and do things that might be technically bad and physically damaging is something else. No, I don't respect bad advice given to people who might be worse off for following it at all. Sorry.

Boring. screw all that. I've been playing drums almost as long as bass. You don't need to know a bunch of rudiments and grips to become a good drummer. Dave Grohl certainly doesn't. Just get yourself a kit, and start banging away. Get a feel for it. Then maybe rent some beginner's dvds (books won't help a beginner). It's all about putting in the time, creating muscle memory and feeling comfortable.

As far as V drums - you might as well program, then.

Wow, aren't we positive?

Learning rudiments are a must. Even if you just learn singles, doubles, paradiddles, flams, and a basic buzz/press roll you'll have 90% of the tools that you'd need to be a happy and potentially successful drummer.

Learn how to read drum music (which if you can read bass already will be a piece of cake).

Concentrate more on groove, timing, and having a solid pocket and not so much on being flashy.

It takes everyone a different amount of time to get to a particular level on the drums, and really the learning never stops.

The disadvantages of v-drums vs. acoustic is that it's harder to apply dynamics unless you have a really expensive e-kit that can translate them. Also the feel of the drums aren't the same as an acoustic set again unless you get an expensive kit. The whole "You might as well just program" thing is bull because you're still physically playing the instrument.

Check out www.vicfirth.com for a lot of drum instruction videos and rudiment guide/training sections.

Wow, aren't we positive?

Learning rudiments are a must. Even if you just learn singles, doubles, paradiddles, flams, and a basic buzz/press roll you'll have 90% of the tools that you'd need to be a happy and potentially successful drummer.

Learn how to read drum music (which if you can read bass already will be a piece of cake).

Concentrate more on groove, timing, and having a solid pocket and not so much on being flashy.

It takes everyone a different amount of time to get to a particular level on the drums, and really the learning never stops.

The disadvantages of v-drums vs. acoustic is that it's harder to apply dynamics unless you have a really expensive e-kit that can translate them. Also the feel of the drums aren't the same as an acoustic set again unless you get an expensive kit. The whole "You might as well just program" thing is bull because you're still physically playing the instrument.

Check out www.vicfirth.com for a lot of drum instruction videos and rudiment guide/training sections.

You are right about the V-drums being better as you get the more expensive models. I think with the feel aspect it depends on whether you are talking about acoustic overtones and resonance or whether you are talking about the player's dynamics and sense of time. The sense of time will be there as long as the triggering is responsive enough to interpret the drummer's playing and the dynamics are once again dependent on the model you are using. I guess acoustic properties are down to the quality of the samples.

You are right about the V-drums being better as you get the more expensive models. I think with the feel aspect it depends on whether you are talking about acoustic overtones and resonance or whether you are talking about the player's dynamics and sense of time. The sense of time will be there as long as the triggering is responsive enough to interpret the drummer's playing and the dynamics are once again dependent on the model you are using. I guess acoustic properties are down to the quality of the samples.


I think what he meant by feel was the response and bounce of the sticks to the drums.

Really, you can put the cash up to get a V-drum set that responds and sounds like a real acoustic set, but with a V-drum set, you can move away from the boundaries of what an acoustic set can do.

I think what he meant by feel was the response and bounce of the sticks to the drums.

Really, you can put the cash up to get a V-drum set that responds and sounds like a real acoustic set, but with a V-drum set, you can move away from the boundaries of what an acoustic set can do.

I agree, you can diversify a lot on what you do with V-drums. I personally like to play with drummers that can use both if possible. I think from a player's perspective playing actual drums will be a completely different experience, especially from the point of view of metals and rim shot techniques, which is where I think the V-Drums probably fall down, even though they try to approximate this stuff and do ok to an extent.

I think in recording though, to a large extent you would be hard pressed to tell what is acoustic and what is triggered a lot of the time. In fact Neil Kernon has been getting a lot of the double kick players to play V-drums for their kick while they play the rest of an acoustic set because sonically it creates less spill and "sonic wash" in the overheads than acoustic kicks when they are playing fast double kick parts.

Closed until the local mods can weigh in. I'm pretty sure replies like several found in this thread are not what Paul had in mind when forum rule #1 ("Address all forum members with the utmost respect at all times") was put in place.