So I've got an audition and the front man sent me an album and an ep with the instructions "I'll send you some CD's with all you need to learn for the audition." 17 songs with no chord charts or anything is a little ridiculous isn't it? Would I be out of line to be like "How about I do 5 or 6?, or email me some chord charts."

Any advice?

Listen. Transcribe. Make your own charts. Practice, then nail the audition. :)

Completely ridiculous, IMO. My guess is that working with this guy will be more trouble than it's worth. He sounds like a pompous douchebag. Unless this is a dream gig (touring with Prince or something), I'd take this as a red flag of more trouble ahead.

Five or six is gracious plenty. You -- and they -- will know if there's a fit after about three songs. Pick your three favorites from the list and ask him to pick three more, preferably challenging ones. That'll do it.

Completely ridiculous, IMO. My guess is that working with this guy will be more trouble than it's worth. He sounds like a pompous douchebag. Unless this is a dream gig (touring with Prince or something), I'd take this as a red flag of more trouble ahead.

Wow--You really take a tiny amount of information, and run with it, don't ya?

One of the reasons I say this is because I got a set list from a band I was subbing for, just a set list, it was about 60 songs. I knew less than half of them. I went on the internet, d/l'd the ones I was either not familiar with, or had never heard (a lot of Latin stuff, mainly), and the gig was two days away. Keep in mind I work full-time, plus I have a family life. I listened, made up a set of 3x5 cards with the names of the songs, the key, the feel, a short chord chart, and still managed to have a home life in the two days I had to prepare. It can be done, and done easily. I took my cards with me to the gig, turns out I had to ask to do the Latin stuff because they were afraid I'd wreck the tunes. As it turns out, they want me in the band permanently. I didn't even need the cards, the very act of putting my "charts" together on the cards cemented the songs in my mind.

i'd say even if you can't figure out the chords, atleast hear (and "learn") the bass riffs you want to play...worry about what notes you'll play when you are auditioning...but don't try to lie to the band, tell them you couldn't figure out the chords and it might take you a run through or 2 to nail them
for example, i'm going to do a little jazz walking line here, repeat for a few measures, then go up an octave and do a little fill...
eh, i guess
or ask the guy to send ya the chords
i can play other people's bass lines by ear, but when it comes to jamming w/ guitarists, i still watch the guitarists' fingers to figure out what chords they are playing...that's just from not "jamming" with guitarists, but mainly hanging out and playing cover songs
maybe one day i'll be able to simply play with any type of instrument by ear
maybe

I think it's ridiculous, but if it's worth auditioning at all, it's worth putting your best foot forward. If you want that gig, put in the effort transcribing the tunes. If at some point you decide that the songs aren't worth any more work, stop and go into the audition with what you know.

Get to work. You'll find out if they're the type of songs you want to play over and over again pretty quickly.

KO

Five or six is gracious plenty. You -- and they -- will know if there's a fit after about three songs. Pick your three favorites from the list and ask him to pick three more, preferably challenging ones. That'll do it.


Here's a reasonable approach to the situation. Just tell him "I listened to everything, and really dig these tunes. Do you have a couple more that you think we could get to in an audition?"

That's all you need to do, really.

I think it's ridiculous, but if it's worth auditioning at all, it's worth putting your best foot forward. If you want that gig, put in the effort transcribing the tunes. If at some point you decide that the songs aren't worth any more work, stop and go into the audition with what you know.

Get to work. You'll find out if they're the type of songs you want to play over and over again pretty quickly.

KO

+1

Its really up to you to decide whether its worth it or not. If its a cover band that "sometimes" plays out, 17 is ridiculous to learn for an audition. If its a national touring act, Im in the shed for as long as it takes.

Completely ridiculous, IMO. My guess is that working with this guy will be more trouble than it's worth. He sounds like a pompous douchebag. Unless this is a dream gig (touring with Prince or something), I'd take this as a red flag of more trouble ahead.

or maybe he's had his share of auditioning bass players and doesn't want just any ol' guy w/ a bass showing up...i have come to realize that most beginning bassists seem to think they are capable of being in a band w/in 2 times of picking up the instrument...i'm not gonna lie, i thought i was..mainly from my guitarist friends telling me how easy the bass is and all that bs...he quite possibly wants to see how the OP will respond to such a ridiculous request, and maybe the OP just needs to say "hey, dude, seriously, a little help w/ the chords"...
or, maybe you're right...maybe he is a douchebag...but we never encounter those in this line or work, right? :)

Agreed it's rediculous - 4 is a good number (let them pick 2 from the 17, and you pick 2). I'd be happy with just a CD though - learning 4 by ear is should demonstrate your skills.

If it's a full time paying job, then they can expect you to put a week's work into the audition (but if it they are full time pro's why do they want to spend 3 hours on a first audition?), but I agree with gmstudio99 - if this is actually just a local band then they've got delusions of their own importance. It sounds like the "serious pro bassist required. must be prepared to work for free because we are gods" type.

Ian

I guess its my call huh...

The guy doesn't seem like DB but the band is pretty serious, lots of gigs at some pretty high profile IMO, NJ venues, a good quality studio album and an ep (which I haven't opened yet). They sound tight and the baselines are really groovy and rhythmically fun but pretty repetitive and simple in terms of progressions and movement, so it won't be impossible to learn it all, but I'm not great at learning things by ear so its going to be grueling. I just hate the idea of learning 17 songs with the possibility of them not liking my shirt and being like better luck next time, ya know?

I think I'll learn as many as I can in a week and call the guy and be like "I have X songs ready, you wanna do this now? If not you have to give me chord charts for the rest cause I'm not gonna break my back on an audition."

Ps. I've never seen so many responses in 5 minutes, thanks guys.

Listen. Transcribe. Make your own charts. Practice, then nail the audition. :)

+1, If you want the gig, don't negotiate the amount of songs, maybe he's just through.;)

I've did an audition once that was close to 30 songs, had 2 weeks to learn it all and only had cd's of the material, but committed all of them to memory, so don't sweat 17 songs. You'll do fine, I would guess.:)

IMO no self respecting musician is going to learn 17 songs for an audition, UNLESS it's an unbelievably worthwhile and well paying position - and even then, it's a lot to ask. Not at all respectful on their part either, you're auditioning for them, not playing a gig.

I would learn 4 or 5 songs impeccably if I really wanted the gig, and tell them I'll be happy to learn the rest - if I've gotten the gig.

I also have a feeling there may have been a misunderstanding. 17 songs seems like what they'd want you to know if you get the gig. I think I'd make sure I understood correctly before doing anything. I don't think there's anything wrong with telling them learning 17 songs for an audition is not realistic, nor something you're willing to do. Nicely of course.

EDIT: You didn't mention what kind of gig this is. If it's a cover gig I take back all the above. Wanting you to know at least 17 songs is very realistic. They may want to work someone in immediately and there are lots of guys who could jump in on the spot knowing hundreds of songs.

I would say it is a test of your ear and how fast you can learn tunes. I would say don't limit yourself figure out as much as you can. I would whack out chord charts and make notes on style and roadmap for all the tunes first. Then go back and start transcribing the hooks and key lines for as much as possible. That way you can at least attempt all the songs. Also they see you walk in with charts and notes they will see you were interested enough work at it.

More important doing this you will be practicing a real money making skill. You can get gigs over better bass players if you figure out and learn a show fast. I know a guy who went from a few gigs to in demand because he got good at learning show FAST. As he put it he was just another good player and knew he need something to make him standout. So he worked on transcribing and learning shows quickly to point he has learned complete shows in two days and played the gigs to where the artist said it sounded like he been playing the gig for years. That rep got around and he works constantly, great gigs, and he playing has grown by leaps and bounds in the process.

So don't limit yourself do as much as you can, don't complain at the audition they know what they did to you, play your best on any tune they call. Last don't read your charts memorize as much as possible and keep charts to the side for reference only. Even if you don 't get the gig you have grown as a musician.

I agree with DocBop. Ear training aside, it is good to transcribe as much as you can, until it gets to be second nature. If you do this every day with at least one song, pretty soon you will have gotten good at two things- transcribing accurately, and sight-reading. Yup, that's right! You can't help BUT get better at reading if you're writing all the time. You increase your musical vocabulary exponentially this way, because you are internalizing the language of music, you use it, it becomes part of you.

Think of it this way-

If I asked you to read me something in Arabic, you'd likely have a real hard time with it, even if you had an Arabic-English dictionary. You aren't familiar with the language or characters. It would take time to look up each letter or symbol, translate it, check it's meaning, learn to pronounce it, etc.

If I asked you to read me an article from the New York Times front page, you'd be able to do it without hesitation because you internally know the language. Music is a language, too, complete with its own grammar, punctuation, and spelling. It's just not something that every single player learns and internalizes.

So take this opportunity to learn, start transcribing, train your ear, and get better and better gigs. You can thank me later by giving me backstage passes when you play the halftime show at the Superbowl next time its in Houston! ;)

Whenever I come across unusual audition requests I have to stop asking whether that is a weird situation and ask myself how badly do I want the gig? I then prepare accordingly.

Good luck.

How much do you want the gig?

I guess its my call huh...

I think I'll learn as many as I can in a week and call the guy and be like "I have X songs ready, you wanna do this now? If not you have to give me chord charts for the rest cause I'm not gonna break my back on an audition."

Ps. I've never seen so many responses in 5 minutes, thanks guys.


It is your call, but,:bassist: if you really want the spot you had better get to "breaking your back", otherwise don't waste their time.

They are in a tough spot,:help: replacing a band member is much harder than auditioning. You have nothing to lose, while they in turn could lose their band.
If they think you can help them out your in.

Learn them all.


Say every other guy auditioning has your mentality, and goes into the audition with only 4 tunes learned.
Then, YOU come in with all 17 learned to the best of your ability.
They're gonna like that.

it's a bargain. You start high, and work your way down. But, if you can learn all 17? I'd say you'd get the gig.

Learn them all.


Say every other guy auditioning has your mentality, and goes into the audition with only 4 tunes learned.
Then, YOU come in with all 17 learned to the best of your ability.
They're gonna like that.

it's a bargain. You start high, and work your way down. But, if you can learn all 17? I'd say you'd get the gig.

I think completely nailing 5 songs would be a lot more impressive and respectable than fumbling through 17 with notes.

Here's the real question, what is the time line, in which this must be done?

I think completely nailing 5 songs would be a lot more impressive and respectable than fumbling through 17 with notes.

Totally depends on the songs. If they are originals, stuffed with trademark riffs and other stuff that needs to be nailed note-for-note, then 5 songs is a huge amount to learn for one audition.

However, if they are cover songs that allows you to freely play "whatever fits", and you just have to capture the feel of the songs, 17 songs could be done. First, write down the form of the songs, then pick out the chords and special riffs, breaks and hooks. If you have a good ear, the chord part goes quickly. Perhaps you don't even need to write down the chords if you're good enough, just play along to the CD a couple of times....

If I would call you or anybody to an audition, I'd be listening closely to your overall sound (I'm not speaking sound quality here unless it's really bad or really good), how well you sync with the band, both in the senses of personal chemistry and timing - can you "lock in" with our drummer? Do you groove? How experienced do you seem to be? How good ear do you seem to have? How well do you seem to know your theory? Do you know what to play over a F#m7b5 chord? All these things would matter more than you being able to play all those songs perfectly at a first audition.

I think completely nailing 5 songs would be a lot more impressive and respectable than fumbling through 17 with notes.

+1. It's just an audition, not the first rehearsal with you as a member. Are you sure he wanted you to learn ALL the songs?

Say every other guy auditioning has your mentality, and goes into the audition with only 4 tunes learned.
Then, YOU come in with all 17 learned to the best of your ability. They're gonna like that.

Then again, learning them all might make you look desperate. And they could still pick someone else if they prefer her looks, playing, personality, tattoos, etc.

There are a few ways to look at this situation, I think. Firstly if you are doing a covers gig and these songs are standards, I would say, what the heck and learn all of the songs. 17 songs isn't a lot to learn if you basically just have to figure out what key they are in and the chord progressions and write out a few charts. It would take me a couple of hours at the most.

On the other hand if you are being asked to audition for an originals band and you are being asked to learn 17 songs, I don't care how simple they are in this case either, I think 17 songs is really a bit much to ask someone to invest their time in a gig they might not even get. I don't know, you might have nothing better to do with your time, but for me sitting around learning that many songs for someone that might not even give me the gig is a waste of time to me. I would tactfully say to him something along the lines that I don't think I can make time to learn that many songs unless I know I have the gig.

When you are auditioning people you should be able to make a fair assessment of their playing fairly quickly. I think it's a bit self indulgent to have someone learn 17 of your songs and hang about all day when you aren't going to hire them anyway. I think learning maybe 4 or 5 songs at the most, if it is original material is appropriate.

I could learn 17 songs in only 1 hour.

I could learn 17 songs in only 1 hour.

Wow, as usual, you are my personal hero.

There are a few ways to look at this situation, I think. Firstly if you are doing a covers gig and these songs are standards, I would say, what the heck and learn all of the songs. 17 songs isn't a lot to learn if you basically just have to figure out what key they are in and the chord progressions and write out a few charts. It would take me a couple of hours at the most.

On the other hand if you are being asked to audition for an originals band and you are being asked to learn 17 songs, I don't care how simple they are in this case either, I think 17 songs is really a bit much to ask someone to invest their time in a gig they might not even get. I don't know, you might have nothing better to do with your time, but for me sitting around learning that many songs for someone that might not even give me the gig is a waste of time to me. I would tactfully say to him something along the lines that I don't think I can make time to learn that many songs unless I know I have the gig.

When you are auditioning people you should be able to make a fair assessment of their playing fairly quickly. I think it's a bit self indulgent to have someone learn 17 of your songs and hang about all day when you aren't going to hire them anyway. I think learning maybe 4 or 5 songs at the most, if it is original material is appropriate.

If the band auditioning is requiring 17 songs, they obviously have nothing better to do than waste time.

they are not gonna play all this tunes , ask the head guy what tunes you should learn and say that 17 songs for a auditions is not feasible, but you can get all them soon as you know that is worth.
That has happened to me several times, and every time when I oblige was a s... a couple songs well played worth more then several s... ones now, just be pro, and they will respect you.

I could learn 17 songs in only 1 hour.I could learn those tunes in....55 minutes! ;) :D

I recently had to learn 18 songs for one. I did have the album and extra mp3's though...even so, a reasonable work load with one week to prepare. Empathize entirely...

Maybe the 17 songs will be enough for their next gig if you get the job.
Then they will know you're ready. No waiting.

I had 2 weeks to learn a 90 minute set for a gig with a band. All was learned for a single gig , filling in for their regular bass player who had work commitments. They were quite technical songs and the guys said they'd prefer if I played it as much as possible like their regular player.

Sounds desperate? Yes, but it was a favour for friends of mine AND it got me a paid holiday in Belgium (where the gig was)

OK. I learned the vocals for 30 jazz standards in the bus on the way to the gig. It was about a 4 hour drive.

That was over 15 years ago, and I still remeber a few of them. I wish the songs we play in my current band would stick that well :(

Having said that, I would simply ask if and why they require you to learn 17 songs. It could very well be open for your selectionm, and to give you an idea of what their music sounds like.

Maybe the 17 songs will be enough for their next gig if you get the job.
Then they will know you're ready. No waiting.

That's a possibility. Pass the audition (of 17 songs) play the show two days later. Would be nice to know this from the leader as an incentive.

My view FWIW:

17 songs are 100% acceptable, if:

National Act
Very well known act
paid gig
You want to challenge yourself
You really, really, really like the band
etc


17 songs are not acceptable, if:

it's just any old garage/basement band
Music is sketchy
the band has more bark than bite (previously the old smoke and mirror trick)
The band cares what your image is like (Make sure to send a pic with your "rock" duds on)
The band wants a free pro with nothing else to offer
The leader is just a slave driver (music is not fun anymore)


Of course all the opinions listed here so far (except for Mr 17 in One Hour followed by Mr Meat Whistle...well Mr Meat Whistle was funny) could be right. We just don't know the nitty gritty of the band. Do they have a name for us to look up on Google or Myspace?

Al

My view FWIW:

17 songs are 100% acceptable, if:

National Act
Very well known act
paid gig
You want to challenge yourself
You really, really, really like the band
etc



Al

Even at that, I can't see how a professional unit needs to go through 17 songs just to audition someone. After 3 or 4 songs they should have a pretty good idea of whether to pursue the person they auditioned or not.

Even at that, I can't see how a professional unit needs to go through 17 songs just to audition someone. After 3 or 4 songs they should have a pretty good idea of whether to pursue the person they auditioned or not.

To this, I completely agree, sir.

+1

I've auditioned drummers and cut them off after song one. If they like the 3 or 4 songs, they'll have you back to learn the rest...with help too!

I guess those things are what I would be willing to learn 17 songs for.

....17 songs isn't a lot to learn if you basically just have to figure out what key they are in and the chord progressions and write out a few charts. It would take me a couple of hours at the most.


I could learn 17 songs in only 1 hour.

Wow, as usual, you are my personal hero.

I could learn those tunes in....55 minutes! ;) :D

Lol @ you people :rolleyes::D:atoz::cool:


If the songs are on average 3½ minute long, their total playing time would be 59 minutes 30 seconds. I don't see how it is possible to learn them in one hour unless you learn all of them while listening to them once, one after the other. Mutedeity's 2 hours sound pretty optimistic as well. (I got the sarcasm by the others though..)

I can learn those tunes in 54 minutes...

Lol @ you people :rolleyes::D:atoz::cool:


If the songs are on average 3½ minute long, their total playing time would be 59 minutes 30 seconds. I don't see how it is possible to learn them in one hour unless you learn all of them while listening to them once, one after the other. Mutedeity's 2 hours sound pretty optimistic as well. (I got the sarcasm by the others though..)

Well, I think it's safe to assume Clave wasn't being literal (if he was he'd be full of sh*t) But yeah, even if the songs were two and a half minutes a piece, look at it from the auditioning band's perspective. They must not have too many bassists auditioning, or anything else to do. If they're going to spend 47 minutes plus setup time plus the usual communication protocol that goes on. You'll looking at like at the very least an hour and 15 minutes per audition. Can't really checkout too many guys when you're spending that much time per person.

I wanted to get your quote in my reply so we can all relish the last post you ever made on talkbass.

Hey, you just got our basketball team there in Oklahoma City. You should be in a better mood.

Now go back to Xbox live son.

Haha. I thought it was cute. Finally someone loves you as much as you seem to love me.

Lol @ you people :rolleyes::D:atoz::cool:


If the songs are on average 3½ minute long, their total playing time would be 59 minutes 30 seconds. I don't see how it is possible to learn them in one hour unless you learn all of them while listening to them once, one after the other. Mutedeity's 2 hours sound pretty optimistic as well. (I got the sarcasm by the others though..)

It's pretty optimistic but I have done something along those lines for certain gigs. I am going on the assumption that I'm learning the main parts of the songs and bridging it as I go. I'm not really doing a note for note rendition. I am talking about learning standards too.

Pick out 5 or 6 songs, get them down pat. Take the other 11 or 12, write out charts for them (get it off tab sites if you have to...just don't bring the tab with you....). Listen to the other 11 or 12 enough that you could remember them. Make sure to chart out song structures and stops (and starts!). As time allows before the audition learn them pat also :).

You may find some of the songs are 1/4/5 pieces of cake... chart those :). Good luck! :)

I can learn those tunes in 54 minutes...Stumbo-

Learn...
Those...
TUNES!!!

:D

My guess is this is the result of thoughtlessness on part of the bandleader....I´m 99% certain that if you simply tell him "hey, cool tunes, looking forward to work on them. Don´t think I have the time to learn all those before the audition, though", everything will be fine. At least if these guys are the least bit professional...and if not, why bother?

17 is absurd for an audition.

But, if you have time, learn all 17 so well you can play them in your sleep without a single cheat sheet, and then when they see that they NEED you, name your price and do it as hired gun:) Doesn't sound like you're totally dying to be in this band, but the process will vastly help your learning chops regardless what happens with these guys.

Its all originals and they are fairly easy like I said, not very complicated chord wise, quite a few variations though and fun rhythmically, their former bassist was pretty good IMO..actually both former bassists (there is a different bass player on each album).

I'm just inexperienced with transcription, and I'm not a pro, I'm just looking to get with a decent bunch of musicians, and I do really like their sound, although they are kind of far away and I do have a few other prospects (might try to just start something fresh with a drummer I've been playing with, and I have a few other auditions). I'm learning the songs as a chance to work on my ear training, if I don't finish them all in time (they didn't actually give me a time) or if they don't want me its no skin off my back.

So I've got an audition and the front man sent me an album and an ep with the instructions "I'll send you some CD's with all you need to learn for the audition." 17 songs with no chord charts or anything is a little ridiculous isn't it? Would I be out of line to be like "How about I do 5 or 6?, or email me some chord charts."

Any advice?

i'd ask him if he thinks it'll take him the duration of 17 songs to decide whether or not i'm right for the gig

5 or 6 sounds plenty

Perhaps if you REALLY want the gig you'll learn all 17 tunes. Has that crossed your mind? There may be a hundred bass players that can play the gig but only one that wants it badly enough they will learn all 17 tunes.

Maybe if you think that's beyond your ability or motivation that gig would be a bad fit for you?

There may be a hundred bass players that can play the gig but only one that wants it badly enough they will learn all 17 tunes.


Could be; but chances are better that of the hundred bands in your immediate area looking for a bass player, only 5-10 of them have *any* clue about how to run auditions.

I dont understand this unwritten law of audition. Why is there a proper way and a stupid way? Seems like they can decide for themselves what is the right audition for their goals...you can agree with them or not but its up to them. If you find value in learning 17 songs then do it for all the valuable reasons you have and if you dont find value in it then dont....but, for people to decided that its stupid or not really means nothing other than now you have their opinion...you already have the opinion of the band and you seem to be looking for a reason to not agree with it..so instead of placing a value judgment on the band put that judgment on yourself and decided if you align with them...debating on whether or not its reasonable isnt very reasonable.

Listen. Transcribe. Make your own charts. Practice, then nail the audition. :)

+1
Learning as many songs as you can will save time in rehearsals and shows you are willing and able to do the gig well.

Learn the 17 songs and call the dude up and ask him if he's got some more tunes for you to learn cause you've learn those 17.

Why?

Because, do the unexpected and live hard.

Play hard.

Just Play!

:bassist:

I dont understand this unwritten law of audition. Why is there a proper way and a stupid way?

There is no One True Way, as different auditions are meant to test different things. Many groups, though, design auditions that either don't test what's actually important to the gig, or else throw in confounding variables so that the results give them a less reliable basis for judgment.

For example, if I'm auditioning players for a tribute band, I could make the audition a cold jam: just start playing changes for a song they don't know (one of my originals, say) and see how developed their ears are. That audition will tell me a lot about their musicianship, but by design it either ignores or obscures some qualities that are way more important to the gig than the ones it puts the most weight on.

I been in situations where the ability to learn 17+ songs by ear in a day or two is a crucial skill. If that's the case here, then the OP should dive in. However, I suspect asking the group leader about the audition's goals would be worthwhile for several reasons: because of the OP's doubts about the audition structure (suggesting at least that the group hasn't made clear what are its key criteria), because IME those kinds of gigs tend to recruit from within a circle of players and MDs who already know one another, and because (again, IME) below a pretty high level of professionalism most groups don't think very carefully about how to design an audition to test for the qualities that most matter to the gig.

Call the guy and find out what he really wants.

It's been my experience that it takes all of about 30 seconds to find out if you and the drummer are clicking and maybe another minute to find out if you will ever be able to lock up.

It's never taken more than three songs to tell if it's gonna work or not.

The thought I see missing from most of these threads is how quickly does this band need you to be up and running? If you're going to be working in a couple weeks learning songs quickly is a necessity. That said try to nail 4-5 down pat and be familiar enough with the rest to play without looking foolish. When you go in for the audition ask to do the ones you've nailed first. They should know by then if they're not interested in you.

We just auditioned 3 guitarists for our band. We went with the one that wanted the gig the most. All 3 played well but one came across as too loud and too type A personality, and the other gave the impression that this would be one of many projects for him and the highest bidder would win, and seemed the least interested in weekly rehearsals. The one we went with fit our personalities best and wants to put out the best product possible. A good fit is everything.

There is no One True Way, as different auditions are meant to test different things. Many groups, though, design auditions that either don't test what's actually important to the gig, or else throw in confounding variables so that the results give them a less reliable basis for judgment.

For example, if I'm auditioning players for a tribute band, I could make the audition a cold jam: just start playing changes for a song they don't know (one of my originals, say) and see how developed their ears are. That audition will tell me a lot about their musicianship, but by design it either ignores or obscures some qualities that are way more important to the gig than the ones it puts the most weight on.

I been in situations where the ability to learn 17+ songs by ear in a day or two is a crucial skill. If that's the case here, then the OP should dive in. However, I suspect asking the group leader about the audition's goals would be worthwhile for several reasons: because of the OP's doubts about the audition structure (suggesting at least that the group hasn't made clear what are its key criteria), because IME those kinds of gigs tend to recruit from within a circle of players and MDs who already know one another, and because (again, IME) below a pretty high level of professionalism most groups don't think very carefully about how to design an audition to test for the qualities that most matter to the gig.

So have you lost out on many jobs because you wouldn't suck up to the interviewer and say/do what they wanted?

Learning 17 songs for the audition is THE REQUIREMENT. It doesn't matter if you think it's too many, it doesn't matter if you think you won't have to play all 17 at the audition. It is the prerequisite for the job.

If you wanted to play for Cirque du Soleil and they required that you learn 25 songs in one week would you do it? Blue Man Group does exactly that.

From the responses in this thread none of you would be able to get this gig just because you think the band leader doesn't know how to run an audition. Go back to your bedrooms and practice.

Here's my opinion...

You have to determine if learning the tunes is worth it to you and no one but you can make that determination. Having said that, I do think it's a bit much to have to learn 17 tunes for an audition. Learning 17 songs for a gig? I can see that. Learning 17 songs for an audition? Sounds kind of screwy. I second that it's a red flag.

From the responses in this thread none of you would be able to get this gig just because you think the band leader doesn't know how to run an audition. Go back to your bedrooms and practice.


You refer to a totally different situation (I presume). Under normal circumstances it´s not just a question about "being able to get the gig". Well, unless you are desperatly short of gigs and need the money, that is...If this was the case, or the gig was with a national star that I really wanted do play with, I would have sucked up and learned the 17 songs. Of course!
But I presume that is not the case here. And then it is totally legit to call up the band leader and ask which five songs are more important.

So have you lost out on many jobs because you wouldn't suck up to the interviewer and say/do what they wanted?

It depends on how bad you need the job and how much it pays.


Learning 17 songs for the audition is THE REQUIREMENT. It doesn't matter if you think it's too many, it doesn't matter if you think you won't have to play all 17 at the audition. It is the prerequisite for the job.

Granted, but again it depends on whether or not it's worth it to the player. 17 songs is a bit bizarre so the money and or prestige would have to be pretty high in order to overcome the bizarro factor.


If you wanted to play for Cirque du Soleil and they required that you learn 25 songs in one week would you do it? Blue Man Group does exactly that.

Agains that's for the gig and to keep the gig that's what you do. Their audition process I'm sure doesn't require you to learn all 25 songs and they do have sheet music, I know that at least Cirque Du Soleil does.


From the responses in this thread none of you would be able to get this gig just because you think the band leader doesn't know how to run an audition. Go back to your bedrooms and practice.

In most situations, 17 songs for an audition is ridiculous even for major acts and extremely well paying gigs.

So have you lost out on many jobs because you wouldn't suck up to the interviewer and say/do what they wanted?

Learning 17 songs for the audition is THE REQUIREMENT. It doesn't matter if you think it's too many, it doesn't matter if you think you won't have to play all 17 at the audition. It is the prerequisite for the job.

If you wanted to play for Cirque du Soleil and they required that you learn 25 songs in one week would you do it? Blue Man Group does exactly that.

From the responses in this thread none of you would be able to get this gig just because you think the band leader doesn't know how to run an audition. Go back to your bedrooms and practice.

I can't speak for everyone, but from what I'm reading here the basic consesus is that most people would not want this gig. If you have a band leader that really doesn't know what he is doing, the band is in for some rough times, and personally I would rather work with musicians that have some idea of how to manage a band.

I would call up the leader and clarify if he really wants me to learn and play all 17 songs (originals, I might add, no chance of having heard them before). If he said that is the requirement, I'd pass on the audition. Too many red flags in terms of potential ego and control issues.

When we run auditions, we send the candidates our set list and highlight 4-5 songs we want them to learn. Since we do classic rock covers, if things are going well we will also play any other songs on the list that they know. We add in a mix of styles to see how they play on the loud vs. slow songs.

Learning 17 songs for the audition is THE REQUIREMENT. It doesn't matter if you think it's too many, it doesn't matter if you think you won't have to play all 17 at the audition. It is the prerequisite for the job.


:) Thanks for the free advice. If the OP's gig turns out to be a high-profile open-call where for some reason they aren't first screening the pool, then you might be right; but that's not the vibe I'm getting.

I've seen too many auditions when I was coming up in which what was said before the audition had little bearing on what was needed for the gig--or even how the audition went. I learned to ask when possible what the group's plans were and what qualities they were looking for. (Not be a pr*ck about it, mind you, but ask in a friendly way what they were about and what they were looking for, how much time they expected each player would have, any preferences about instruments if that wasn't clear, when applicable what volume levels they preferred so I could bring an appropriate rig, etc.) Sometimes they had a clear idea. Often, they didn't, and in those cases talking with the leader beforehand upped the chances for everyone that they would see and hear what they needed during the audition.


Go back to your bedrooms and practice. :)

So have you lost out on many jobs because you wouldn't suck up to the interviewer and say/do what they wanted?

Learning 17 songs for the audition is THE REQUIREMENT. It doesn't matter if you think it's too many, it doesn't matter if you think you won't have to play all 17 at the audition. It is the prerequisite for the job.

If you wanted to play for Cirque du Soleil and they required that you learn 25 songs in one week would you do it? Blue Man Group does exactly that.

From the responses in this thread none of you would be able to get this gig just because you think the band leader doesn't know how to run an audition. Go back to your bedrooms and practice.

No, the situation is like this, and I can see this as both a bandleader auditioning applicants and as an applicant. As a bandleader I would hope to have my act together enough to know whether someone is right for the gig after hearing them play 3 or 4 songs at the most. I would make sure that I gave them material that was varied and indicative of as many aspects of their playing as I need to hear. Someone that needs someone to learn 17 songs for an audition should probably go back to the bedroom and practice more themselves.

As an applicant I think it is unreasonable to be expected to learn that many songs for an audition I might not even get. Time is money and if I am wasting time on that many songs and don't get the gig it means something else has been sacrificed that would have been more worthwhile. I guess if I was desperate to get into a band and had nothing better to do I might not care.

I think if you were auditioning for Cirque Du Soleil or Blue Man Group on the other hand it wouldn't be unreasonable to ask to have charts provided. I would think that this would be the norm anyway. In fact I would apply that to this situation too. If someone said I want you to play 17 songs at this audition I would say "Can you please provide me with the charts".

If you wanted to play for Cirque du Soleil and they required that you learn 25 songs in one week would you do it? Blue Man Group does exactly that.

Those types of gigs will not require you to learn 25 songs to simply audition. They'll know within 2-3 tunes if you deserve the gig. Once you get it, THEN it's on you to learn the 25+.

A friend of mine got the call to join a well known fusiony guitarist's band. They sent him a tape of the set he would be performing and a rehearsal date a couple of weeks away. He checked out the tapes, showed up at the rehearsal, said "Where are the charts?". The reply:"What charts? We sent you the tape". I personally find this way of doing business idiotic and insulting, but some bands operate this way. IMHO, if a band is doing all originals, and wants to audition players, they should spend a few bucks and get charts done if they are musically illiterate and incapable of doing it themselves.

A friend of mine got the call to join a well known fusiony guitarist's band. They sent him a tape of the set he would be performing and a rehearsal date a couple of weeks away. He checked out the tapes, showed up at the rehearsal, said "Where are the charts?". The reply:"What charts? We sent you the tape". I personally find this way of doing business idiotic and insulting, but some bands operate this way. IMHO, if a band is doing all originals, and wants to audition players, they should spend a few bucks and get charts done if they are musically illiterate and incapable of doing it themselves.

I think if you are going to expect charts you ask for them in the initial contact, that is, over the phone. Your friend was a bit misguided showing up expecting charts when there was no mention of them in the first place. They did send him the tape.

If someone sends you a tape and you need charts, it's your responsibility to make the charts yourself, unless you expressly ask for them. On the other hand if someone sends me a tape and no charts I wouldn't think it reasonable for them to expect me to learn and play 17 songs just for an audition.

There is no One True Way, as different auditions are meant to test different things. Many groups, though, design auditions that either don't test what's actually important to the gig, or else throw in confounding variables so that the results give them a less reliable basis for judgment.

For example, if I'm auditioning players for a tribute band, I could make the audition a cold jam: just start playing changes for a song they don't know (one of my originals, say) and see how developed their ears are. That audition will tell me a lot about their musicianship, but by design it either ignores or obscures some qualities that are way more important to the gig than the ones it puts the most weight on.

I been in situations where the ability to learn 17+ songs by ear in a day or two is a crucial skill. If that's the case here, then the OP should dive in. However, I suspect asking the group leader about the audition's goals would be worthwhile for several reasons: because of the OP's doubts about the audition structure (suggesting at least that the group hasn't made clear what are its key criteria), because IME those kinds of gigs tend to recruit from within a circle of players and MDs who already know one another, and because (again, IME) below a pretty high level of professionalism most groups don't think very carefully about how to design an audition to test for the qualities that most matter to the gig.

ok I can understand that. If thats your approach then I get it and if you talk about it with the band leader and discuss for this situation the reasons for all those songs and then decide with each other if that really is whats needed or not..plus that can just start good communication.
Its when people are just sayin learn what you want and then go to the audition which is basically making power plays or at best just comes across as lazy is when it seems like a really dumb idea to tell the band what you think is best.

but hell I dont know..Ive never held an audition or been to one...ha

I was talking to a friend last night at a blues jam. He was telling me about a special on VH1 There was a segment on Stevie Wonder, Nathan East was playing with him at that time. Nathan recounts how he got the gig. He was sent charts. His audition was a stadium gig. He plays keys also so he said when he wasn't sure he'd watch Stevie's hands to figure out the chords. Of course Nathan is a great bass player but that had to be one heck of a shock for an audition.

Point being the needs of the band may dictate the audition. 4-5 song would be plenty for my band. We just signed on a guitarist. Now the challenge comes. We need to get about 35 songs down in a couple months with the new guitarist and we have 4 more gigs with the old guitarist that will require at least 2 of the rehearsals. We'll see how fast he learns.