This is a jargon word I read and hear bassists and drummers say.

Apparently Jaco had a very big "pocket".

But what actually is it? :eyebrow: :help:

Lots of definitions. I would say it's the ability to achieve the state where it seems like the players in the band are rhythmically locked together without effort. Primary responsibility for "pocket" falls on the bassist and drummer.

When I am playing in a band, "pocket" feels like nobody is struggling to keep the beat or stay on tempo. The beat is just there. Some players have a gift for being able to make this happen.

Ah, this term isn't always agreed on.

But this is my favourite explanation of it so far (not mine):

The phrase “in the pocket” is used to describe something or someone playing in such a way that the groove is very solid and with a great feel. When a drummer keeps a good metronomic pulse, often referred to as keeping time, and makes the groove feel really good, and maintains this feel for an extended period of time, never wavering, this is often referred to as a deep pocket…

Today, the term “in the pocket” has broadened a bit, suggesting that if two musicians (usually the bass player and the drummer) are feeling the downbeats together, feeling and placing beat “one” at the exact same time, they are said to be “in the pocket.”

Whether you are playing ahead (front) of the beat, or behind (back) of the beat, or right on top (middle) of the beat, as long as two musicians (ie. bassist and drummer) feel the downbeat at the same time, they’ll be in the pocket.

Many people feel that the question is not so much what the pocket is as much as how you know when you’ve achieved it. To the musician, it feels like the music is playing itself, as though everything has merged together … all the rhythmic parts being played by one instrument.

It goes deeper than that as well. It's the perfect place where everything is locked, and working perfect. It's also about the phrasing and tonality of the notes, but we can go on all day if we get into that!

Hope this is a good start for you...

Ah, this term isn't always agreed on.

But this is my favourite explanation of it so far (not mine):

The phrase “in the pocket” is used to describe something or someone playing in such a way that the groove is very solid and with a great feel. When a drummer keeps a good metronomic pulse, often referred to as keeping time, and makes the groove feel really good, and maintains this feel for an extended period of time, never wavering, this is often referred to as a deep pocket…

Today, the term “in the pocket” has broadened a bit, suggesting that if two musicians (usually the bass player and the drummer) are feeling the downbeats together, feeling and placing beat “one” at the exact same time, they are said to be “in the pocket.”

Whether you are playing ahead (front) of the beat, or behind (back) of the beat, or right on top (middle) of the beat, as long as two musicians (ie. bassist and drummer) feel the downbeat at the same time, they’ll be in the pocket.

Many people feel that the question is not so much what the pocket is as much as how you know when you’ve achieved it. To the musician, it feels like the music is playing itself, as though everything has merged together … all the rhythmic parts being played by one instrument.

It goes deeper than that as well. It's the perfect place where everything is locked, and working perfect. It's also about the phrasing and tonality of the notes, but we can go on all day if we get into that!

Hope this is a good start for you...

this is a total nerdy definition of pocket if you ask me. im sure if you asked bootsy what the pocket was, hed say "its the funk baby"

its when youve internalized the beat. its not just playing together, its grooving together.

To me Pocket is about the band locking in to the groove. The time is solid and the band working together like they are one. It could be as simple as Blues and backbeats on 2 & 4 or Jazz Fusion. When you're playing with a great rhythm section and it locks in you will feel it, that is what music is all about.

As Victor Wooten sez. You can't hold no groove if you ain't got no pocket.

This is pocket:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoZtJwTv4uc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHE6hZU72A4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_cAOmajPN8

this is a total nerdy definition of pocket if you ask me. im sure if you asked bootsy what the pocket was, hed say "its the funk baby"

its when youve internalized the beat. its not just playing together, its grooving together.

He asked a question, so I answered it in a way with as much detail to help him understand it.

Sorry.

BTW DocBop is right on, pocket can be found in any style.

If you have never experienced it before once you feel it everything will become clear.:bassist:

He asked a question, so I answered it in a way with as much detail to help him understand it.

Sorry.
If you've ever played with a drummer who is consistently playing at the front of the beat, you can understand why the pocket is so appreciated by a bass player. When the drummer is on the front of the beat, the bass player is working to keep the tempo from rushing, and it's not enjoyable. I can appreciate the explanation here Dmanlamius.

I've always considered "the pocket" to be a rhythmic availability created by the other instruments in which what you play won't be "too much" or offbeat.

The best definition I've heard came from one of the best drummer in the world: Steve Gadd. His definition is very simple : IT IS AN AGREEMENT OF WHERE THE 1 IS ! It makes a lot of sense, there is nothing esotheric about it,

SB

The pocket is not just being locked in with each other but being able to feel each other and move back and forth within the groove (but not going out of the groove). You can play behind the beat or ahead of the beat but still be on beat; that's the pocket.

If you have never experienced it before once you feel it everything will become clear.:bassist:

+1

The pocket is not just being locked in with each other but being able to feel each other and move back and forth within the groove (but not going out of the groove). You can play behind the beat or ahead of the beat but still be on beat; that's the pocket.

Funny, my definitions of "groove" and "pocket" have the terms completely reversed in those sentences.

Not that it really matters

The pocket is playing pentatonic slap bass with a wailing pentatonic smooth jazz tenor sax. Yeahhhh!

This is a jargon word I read and hear bassists and drummers say.

Apparently Jaco had a very big "pocket".

But what actually is it? :eyebrow: :help:

The pocket is when nobody notices you, but the booties are wigglin' and the boobies are jigglin'.

Ox.

To me The Pocket is a simultaneous telepathic connection not just between all the musicians on stage, but with your audience as well. Usually this phenomenon starts with the bassist and the drummer, then the rest of the band. When your feelin it, the crowd feels it and that makes the Pocket even sweeter. :cool:

lock with the drums and stay down there.

The pocket is playing pentatonic slap bass with a wailing pentatonic smooth jazz tenor sax. Yeahhhh!

awesome!

Ah, this term isn't always agreed on.

But this is my favourite explanation of it so far (not mine):

The phrase “in the pocket” is used to describe something or someone playing in such a way that the groove is very solid and with a great feel. When a drummer keeps a good metronomic pulse, often referred to as keeping time, and makes the groove feel really good, and maintains this feel for an extended period of time, never wavering, this is often referred to as a deep pocket…

Today, the term “in the pocket” has broadened a bit, suggesting that if two musicians (usually the bass player and the drummer) are feeling the downbeats together, feeling and placing beat “one” at the exact same time, they are said to be “in the pocket.”

Whether you are playing ahead (front) of the beat, or behind (back) of the beat, or right on top (middle) of the beat, as long as two musicians (ie. bassist and drummer) feel the downbeat at the same time, they’ll be in the pocket.

Many people feel that the question is not so much what the pocket is as much as how you know when you’ve achieved it. To the musician, it feels like the music is playing itself, as though everything has merged together … all the rhythmic parts being played by one instrument.

It goes deeper than that as well. It's the perfect place where everything is locked, and working perfect. It's also about the phrasing and tonality of the notes, but we can go on all day if we get into that!

Hope this is a good start for you...

Technically...what he said. (I do agree). Musically...it's when the rhythm section is playing in "the zone".

This is a jargon word I read and hear bassists and drummers say.

Apparently Jaco had a very big "pocket".

But what actually is it? :eyebrow: :help:

Click on the link in my sig.

:D

Joe.

the pocket is where you hold your groove

It goes deeper than that as well. It's the perfect place where everything is locked, and working perfect. It's also about the phrasing and tonality of the notes, but we can go on all day if we get into that!

Hope this is a good start for you...

Yes, thanks. So it's being in what musicians call the groove and sportsmen call the zone. A collective trance state for band and audience, if you like.

The pocket is when nobody notices you, but the booties are wigglin' and the boobies are jigglin'.

Ox.

Right! Now I know exactly what it is! :D

the pocket has less to with the band as a whole..

holeonasec...lemme wax a bit....

has more to do with you, and your ability lock in with your rythm section in such a manner that the both of you become the groove path on which the voice instruments are able to become the scenery of your journey,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The pocket is when nobody notices you, but the booties are wigglin' and the boobies are jigglin'.

Ox.

OOOOooooooo....the booties are wigglin' and the boobies are jigglin'.... That's Gooooood....real good. Works for me. )-(:D

The pocket is when the drummer and the bassist become the Rhythm Section. It's like the best sex ever for musicians. If the rhythm section is in the pocket, the rest of the band fits right over the top like god made it. If the bassist and drummer are in the pocket, the guitarist(s) can be sloppy and all over the place, the singer can forget half the lyrics; but the show will go on. It's righteous and you will know it when it happens! :cool::bassist:

Just keep on bangin' out that groove.

Gus

shame this thread didn't get more love


bizzzzzzzzzump

shame this thread didn't get more love
Word.

I think dmanlius got it right. Most of the posts have been describing how the pocket feels, or how the audience reacts, but not what the pocket is. To me, it's about the bass & drums having the same time feel (ahead / behind beat) and also about space. That is, I'm leaving enough space in my playing for the rest of the band to fill, and vice versa.

One of the best examples of pocket playing I have heard recently is D'Angelo's "Voodoo" album. Check out how the rhythm section messes with the feel of the piece by moving the feel around the beat.

For instance, on "One Mo' Gin" the pocket is so far back off the beat it almost feels like they are going out of time, but the song just hangs on by its fingers. The cover of "Feel Like Makin' Love" is more on the beat, but still laid back.

Great playing!

The pocket is when the drummer and the bassist become the Rhythm Section.

I agree with this. But I don't think it's just limited to the bassist and drummer. When there is an impeccable sense of rhythm to whole music, when everyone is moving the same way when they listen to it, and actually NEED to move, that's the pocket.

Standing on the one together is not cutting it. There are many works where drummer and bassist plays different time signatures, and together they form a new rhythm.

Awesome how funk is primarily mentioned :D ha, I think any of the early Jamiroquai while they still had Stuart Zender is an ideal example.

by the way I'd suggest checking out a nick bartsch's ronin album to challenge your definitions of the pocket.

I believe this should be renamed the metaphorical thread.

George Porter (The Meters bassist) said on NPR about 5 minutes ago that, "The pocket is when the bass and drums are locked. That is the platform, and what sits on top--that is the lunch box."

So now we know what the pocket is, but what is the lunch box? :D :D :D

Rocco Prestia.

It's unfortunate I don't get to hear very many bands who make "the pocket" happen. I, personally, have had trouble finding "the pocket" in several bands I've played with. Both the drummer and the bassist have to feel the swing or groove well to create a "pocket". A LOT of guys only think they create a pocket.

I've only been fortunate enough to work with a few drummers who can "lay it down". The rest were too concerned with looking cool, fiddling endlessly with tom placement, playing Neil Peart licks in pop songs, or just shouldn't have become drummers in the first place (Hi Mitch! you NIT. You should take up fishing instead.). :rollno: I know... I'm a jerk. I actually quit playing in bands, for years, out of frustration.

Want to hear a DEEP pocket? Listen to The Meters' Cissy Strut. That's a pocket so deep you could dive in it.

A lot of the definitions so far given, besides specific examples, are pretty vague and metaphorical. I'm going to venture into dangerous territory here and mention something that's probably waaay too simple and specific by way of defining 'the pocket':

In my experience, the pocket seems to be the space between beats 2 and 4, generally created by the drummer hitting 2 and 4 on the snare.

When you imagine your metronome to be on beats 2 and 4 (instead of 1234 or 1+3,), you can feel a kind of expansion of rhythmic options as the ticks on 2 and 4 'anchor' the rhythm.

much like the calve is the frame for afro-cuban rhythms, the backbeats of 2 and 4 create a stable frame for the funk/soul r&b feel. And like the clave, the presence is not always played but is always implied.

That said, just playing 'the pocket', or back beat, does not mean that you're playing 'in the pocket' ...for example, compare what the Beatles do with Ringo's flawless back beat (playing with the back beat) versus what the Meters do with the back beat (playing in the pocket.)

So in summary:
Beats 2 and 4 create the pocket
What you do with that will determine if you're in the pocket

Apologies to those who prefer a more mystical /metaphorical/ all embracing explanation...just want to give the OP something concrete to work with.

The simplest definition is when your bass so tight with the kick that your notes' attack is 'buried' by the kick.

to me...a "pocket groove" is like a heartbeat...it's right on, it's predictable and it makes you feel "warm and fuzzy" or "happy"

a "funky groove" has a bit more syncopation and makes you feel a bit more animated...

but you have to walk before you can run and there's noone out there I know that can throw down a good funky groove without first knowing where the pocket is...

This isn't funk, but it's one of my favorite examples of players who've found "the pocket":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wycStn6akEM

The bass player is Carol Kaye and the drummer is the late, great John Guerin. There are so many cool things in this recording including John's backbeats around Carol's straight quarter notes, the clinic Carol puts on in how to use octaves when walking and how unfailingly together they are on every beat.

They have agreed where the one is!!

I still grin EVERY time I hear it.

Bluesy Soul :cool: