I'm finding more and more as I'm jamming with people that all my groove patterns are the same and I'm guessing thats a product of not really practicing songs for a long time and just improvising and messing around. I mean, my licks are fine and they're not boring or anything, its just that I'm finding that I have a really limited vocabulary and that those few licks and grooves are constantly coming back up and they're the only ones I use.

Any of you guys have the same experience? And what should I do to break this habit. I'm trying to learn a couple new licks every day and hoping that they'll stick and I'll begin subconsciously implementing them into my playing but is there anything else I can do?

Thanks guys.

In a given piece of music that you want to add some bass lines to, instead of playing a bass line, put down the bass and make one up in your head, singing it to yourself as you do. This way you dont have muscle memory pulling you back to the same old riffs. Then when you have it fully in your head, start playing it on the bass.

Listen to more music expand the styles and people you listen to. You see it all the time people hear something in a totally different style of music then tweak it and make work in what they play.

Also transcribe more and analyze the notes you like and dislike to add more detail to how you use you vocabulary.

i get the same way when i get into playing/writing my own stuff and just running scales for a while. play other peoples stuff- get their musical vocabulary under your belt.

What i do is start improvising along to my itunes collection on random, one minute im playing along to incubus, the next a chilli peppers song, next a classical song, then funk then pop etc etc. Every now and then i play a lick i like. So i stop. play it over a few times, record it, and write a few lines about what im playing i.e technique and write down the actual lick itself. Sometimes i go back at some point and look at the lick and expand it it into a bass line.

If your talking about fills and not grooves.

Be willing to take chances and screw up!

Practice your grooves really slowly at home and just mess with them.See above.

Aj

Use the same notes you've been using for your "standard" licks, but utilize pauses and play more rhythmically. Every bassist should be able to freely improvise just using major/minor(7) arpeggios, because 9 times out of 10 that's all you need in an improvising situation. If you think you're getting repetitive the answer is in rhythm, not in more notes. And if you think you're getting predictable, the people you play with probably love playing with you.

If you mean walking (where changing the rhythm isn't an option, and arpeggios will get boring fast) try starting on different degrees of each chord. Then you'll notice new routes you can take sicne you're resolving differently.

Thanks guys! Lots of great ideas that I can try.
I play in a funk/blues/a little bit of jazz type group with a soulive type vibe so the basslines don't get that complicated. I'm just tired of hearing myself play the same thing and I'm not really sure if it bothers my other bandmates but it does bother me.

Keep the ideas coming :)

What i do is start improvising along to my itunes collection on random, one minute im playing along to incubus, the next a chilli peppers song, next a classical song, then funk then pop etc etc. Every now and then i play a lick i like. So i stop. play it over a few times, record it, and write a few lines about what im playing i.e technique and write down the actual lick itself. Sometimes i go back at some point and look at the lick and expand it it into a bass line.

+100

Download a huge music collection with a bunch of random styles, then press shuffle.

Jam away

+100

Download a huge music collection with a bunch of random styles, then press shuffle.

Jam away


i'd like to do this but i'm horrible at figuring out what key something's in.

If this is about original grooves.

get you self some way to record quick and dirty but you can store the results.

Force your self to come up with one new groove a day. Not perfection just do it. After a month go back and listen to them, Find the ones you like or hear potential and grow them.


Aj

I'm finding more and more as I'm jamming with people that all my groove patterns are the same and I'm guessing thats a product of not really practicing songs for a long time and just improvising and messing around. I mean, my licks are fine and they're not boring or anything, its just that I'm finding that I have a really limited vocabulary and that those few licks and grooves are constantly coming back up and they're the only ones I use.

Any of you guys have the same experience? And what should I do to break this habit. I'm trying to learn a couple new licks every day and hoping that they'll stick and I'll begin subconsciously implementing them into my playing but is there anything else I can do?

Thanks guys.

Sounds like you're on the right track. You said you have a limited "vocabulary"; a fitting chouce of words. It's just like a new word in your verbal vocabulary, where you're introduced to a new word, learn how to say it, what it means and where to stick it into a conversation. To expand your musical vocabulary you must be introduced to the new idea, get it under your fingers, and learn its expression and where to put it in your music. You're working on the first step; being introduced to new ideas. Next step, get it under your fingers as originally played.

Then, you need to learn its meaning and where it goes. In word vocab, that requires a primer; sentence structure and grammar In music, just like linguistics, you need to know the theory. Up to now has been "how"; theory seeks to explain "why". Pumping the root in a good percentage of pop songs requires little else other than knowing the circle of fifths to identify the notes you'll play for a 1-4-5 progression. Constructing fills or a walking bass line gets more complex. You have to know what key you're in and whether it is major or minor, what chord your guitarists are playing and how that chord harmonizes or doesn't harmonize in the key, and which chord they'll play next and how that mixes in to the key. All of this will tell you which notes aren't going to step on the toes of anything currently being played, and in the case of a walking line or leading line, will also naturally head toward the next chord.

A final note; don't worry too much if your licks sound repetitive. So does 90% of contemporary music. In the Western music system, there are things that work very well virtually all the time, things that are "execution-dependent", and things that seldom or never work. You'll find that certain things you try are just not going to fit, even if they sound great solo. Your hand will be led to certain familiar shapes quite a bit; the trick is making them sound new. Changing changing a note from this way to that, adding a new note, even changing the note that the exact same arpeggio or riff structure starts on can make a difference. What you have to learn is what can change and what can't.

I'm finding more and more as I'm jamming with people that all my groove patterns are the same and I'm guessing thats a product of not really practicing songs for a long time and just improvising and messing around. I mean, my licks are fine and they're not boring or anything, its just that I'm finding that I have a really limited vocabulary and that those few licks and grooves are constantly coming back up and they're the only ones I use.

Any of you guys have the same experience? And what should I do to break this habit. I'm trying to learn a couple new licks every day and hoping that they'll stick and I'll begin subconsciously implementing them into my playing but is there anything else I can do?

Thanks guys.

I'm in this funk RIGHT NOW, I'm catching myself recycling licks all the time; Great suggestions on this thread, I'm going to also learn a bunch of new songs n mess around more. Good luck to ya, OP!

I find myself doing the same as the OP from time to time. I feel like this happens when I think of finger shapes and patterns. If I just play what I hear in my head, I find a new groove to work with... and also another finger pattern to try not to embed completely in my playing. (It's a double ended sword.) I feel like when I play by ear it's all gravy, but there's those times that I'm nervous and need a "home" center I'm 100% positive about. That's where licks come in handy for me.

Interestingly enough, I was reading threads on the DB side of TB (I play a bit of DB also) and they weren't encouraging lick playing at all... Dang, I wish I remembered which thread it was, it was a good one. I think it was under Jazz Tech if you have a chance to search. Very informative.

One thing I like to do is to occasionally incorporate a fragment of the melody, or a harmony, into my bass line. Maybe just a bar or half a bar, then let this lead me somewhere.

Or play an independent line but copying the phrasing of the melody for part of a verse (i.e. counterpoint).

...instead of playing a bass line, put down the bass and make one up in your head, singing it to yourself as you do...

I think that's the best suggestion so far. My favorite creations of late were all formed in my head , away form the instrument. It's also pretty rewarding when you find you can sing something in your head and quickly figure it out on the neck.

One of things I do when my bass lines get repetitive or boring is listen to another instrument and see if I can play something that copies/ follows/ supports that voice better; or listen for an opportunity to play less or lay out all together. It's pretty cool what downshifting to half notes and whole notes can do for a tune.

If I get bored while playing I try to remind myself to listen...

There's quite a few TB threads on creating bass line:
http://www.google.com/custom?domains=www.talkbass.com&q=creating+bass+lines&sa=Google+Search+TB&sitesearch=www.talkbass.com&client=pub-8421004264497697&forid=1&channel=1242832700&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3B VLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3 A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000% 3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BLH%3A44%3BLW%3A1 00%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.talkbass.com%2Fimages%2F header%2F2007%2Flogo.jpg%3BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ta lkbass.com%3BLP%3A1%3BFORID%3A1&hl=en

jaco did this quite a bit, and if you listen to pretty much anyone, after having hours of material, youll hear their common ideas over and over

not neccesarily bad in my book, although when i was more of a beginner to improvising it was annoying (to me atleast)